Ryan "Rick" Bates Watch Thread

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, The Jokeman said:

People worry because he was starting the last quarter of the season when we seemed to turn the running game around. I get it but he is replaceable.

 

My take, FWIW, is

1) the running game turn around preceded Bates starting (though I do give him props that I felt Dawkins and the whole line played better with him at LG)

The Jets, the Saints, and the Bucs were all good running games featuring Boettger and Williams at OG. 

2) the run game didn't work better  because we ran the same plays with different OLmen blocking (Bates instead of Boettger, Boettger instead of Feliciano; Williams instead of Ford).  it worked better because we were running different blocking and different plays - more pin and pull, less zone

3) an uncomfortable amount of the rush game resurgence was more designed attempts for Josh Allen - 12 or 15 attempts per game.  This isn't just because Josh is an incredible athlete, it's because it gives us an extra element of misdirection or an extra blocker.

4) Bates was playing LG, no clue if he'd play as well at RG

 

I'd like to see us keep Bates but given that Beane apparently set out to remodel the entire damned DL, I can't quarrel with taking the minimalist tender approach.  We have a chance to match whatever offers he gets.

 

And make no mistake, Beane is a "cards close to the vest" guy.   He would love to lull the Vikes or Bears or whoever into the idea the Bills have 0 cap so they don't have to work hard to draft an offer sheet we can't beat.  Then he'll have some strategy in mind and Surprise! if he wants to match it.

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

20 hours ago, Dopey said:

Take care of family first. Championship is not a given, the $ is. Now if he were a vet who already made a ton of $ that's a different story.

 

Lol, because he wouldn't get millions here ?? If you're smart you know how to manage your money if not your going to blow it all anyway.

 

Always go for the championship.

 

 

[John from Riverside]

58 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My take, FWIW, is

1) the running game turn around preceded Bates starting (though I do give him props that I felt Dawkins and the whole line played better with him at LG)

The Jets, the Saints, and the Bucs were all good running games featuring Boettger and Williams at OG. 

2) the run game didn't work better  because we ran the same plays with different OLmen blocking (Bates instead of Boettger, Boettger instead of Feliciano; Williams instead of Ford).  it worked better because we were running different blocking and different plays - more pin and pull, less zone

3) an uncomfortable amount of the rush game resurgence was more designed attempts for Josh Allen - 12 or 15 attempts per game.  This isn't just because Josh is an incredible athlete, it's because it gives us an extra element of misdirection or an extra blocker.

4) Bates was playing LG, no clue if he'd play as well at RG

 

I'd like to see us keep Bates but given that Beane apparently set out to remodel the entire damned DL, I can't quarrel with taking the minimalist tender approach.  We have a chance to match whatever offers he gets.

 

And make no mistake, Beane is a "cards close to the vest" guy.   He would love to lull the Vikes or Bears or whoever into the idea the Bills have 0 cap so they don't have to work hard to draft an offer sheet we can't beat.  Then he'll have some strategy in mind and Surprise! if he wants to match it.

 

I just dont believe they will role with Ford with no other plan

[Rocky Landing]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

My take, FWIW, is

1) the running game turn around preceded Bates starting (though I do give him props that I felt Dawkins and the whole line played better with him at LG)

The Jets, the Saints, and the Bucs were all good running games featuring Boettger and Williams at OG. 

2) the run game didn't work better  because we ran the same plays with different OLmen blocking (Bates instead of Boettger, Boettger instead of Feliciano; Williams instead of Ford).  it worked better because we were running different blocking and different plays - more pin and pull, less zone

3) an uncomfortable amount of the rush game resurgence was more designed attempts for Josh Allen - 12 or 15 attempts per game.  This isn't just because Josh is an incredible athlete, it's because it gives us an extra element of misdirection or an extra blocker.

4) Bates was playing LG, no clue if he'd play as well at RG

 

I'd like to see us keep Bates but given that Beane apparently set out to remodel the entire damned DL, I can't quarrel with taking the minimalist tender approach.  We have a chance to match whatever offers he gets.

 

And make no mistake, Beane is a "cards close to the vest" guy.   He would love to lull the Vikes or Bears or whoever into the idea the Bills have 0 cap so they don't have to work hard to draft an offer sheet we can't beat.  Then he'll have some strategy in mind and Surprise! if he wants to match it.

 

I'm not drawing any necessary correlation between the run game, and Bates' presence as a starter, and I know the Bills were working on fixing the run game well before he started, but... I don't think the run game really started to gel until the second Pats* game, and I feel like it really took a subsequent big step in the Falcons game the following week. And that does actually coincide with Bates starting. I also never felt like the "big issue" in the run game was the quality of our RBs, especially Motor. I always thought it was scheme, and O-line. (And correct me if I'm wrong, but was it 2019 that the Bills switched to zone blocking, at which point pass protection improved, and the run game took a dive?)

 

At least, this is the narrative that I've built in my head, and I might be way off (I often am). And now that I'm writing this, I'm going to have to go back and re-watch that Falcons game.

 

 

Edited March 20, 2022 by Rocky Landing

[Hapless Bills Fan]

9 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I'm not drawing any necessary correlation between the run game, and Bates' presence as a starter, and I know the Bills were working on fixing the run game well before he started, but... I don't think the run game really started to gel until the second Pats* game, and I feel like it really took a subsequent big step in the Falcons game the following week. And that does actually coincide with Bates starting. I also never felt like the "big issue" in the run game was the quality of our RBs, especially Motor. I always thought it was scheme, and O-line. (And correct me if I'm wrong, but was it 2019 that the Bills switched to zone blocking, at which point pass protection improved, and the run game took a dive?)

 

It was last season (2020).  Cover1 did a piece after the season.

[billsfan89]

The Bills O-line is starting to be a real concern for me. They have 4 starting caliber linemen and not much else. Brining back Bates would be a nice move but this team then has very little depth. Only Doyle and Ford would be behind the starting 5. Without Bates there is a gaping hole at LG that should be filled at pick 25. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

I just dont believe they will role with Ford with no other plan

 

Just to be clear, that is not something I or anyone else here seems to have suggested they will do.

 

Low tender on Bates not.eq.to Losing Bates

Losing Bates not.eq.to "role" (sic) with Ford with no other plan

 

 

Just now, billsfan89 said:

The Bills O-line is starting to be a real concern for me. They have 4 starting caliber linemen and not much else. Brining back Bates would be a nice move but this team then has very little depth. Only Doyle and Ford would be behind the starting 5. Without Bates there is a gaping hole at LG that should be filled at pick 25. 

 

Again, I would argue that we have a real need to draft a quality OLman (probably in the 1st 3 rounds) regardless of whether or not we sign Bates.

 

But either way, insisting the hole be filled at Pick 25 is silly.

[billsfan89]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just to be clear, that is not something I or anyone else here seems to have suggested they will do.

 

Low tender on Bates not.eq.to Losing Bates

Losing Bates not.eq.to "role" (sic) with Ford with no other plan

 

 

 

Again, I would argue that we have a real need to draft a quality OLman (probably in the 1st 3 rounds) regardless of whether or not we sign Bates.

 

But either way, insisting the hole be filled at Pick 25 is silly.

 

If they don't resign Bates easily 2 out of the top 3 picks need to be on the O-line. Insisting on pick 25 maybe hyperbolic but the O-line is becoming a massive area of concern for me personally. Not much out on the free agency market and Bates is not yet back officially. 

[Rocky Landing]

24 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

If they don't resign Bates easily 2 out of the top 3 picks need to be on the O-line. Insisting on pick 25 maybe hyperbolic but the O-line is becoming a massive area of concern for me personally. Not much out on the free agency market and Bates is not yet back officially. 

Oh yeah? How do you feel about CB depth?

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Lol, because he wouldn't get millions here ?? If you're smart you know how to manage your money if not your going to blow it all anyway.

 

Always go for the championship.

 

 

Lol???

I think Bates is on the same page as I am. Otherwise, he would have signed with us by now. Again, a championship isn't a given. The money is. Especially for an undrafted FA. Seems like a smart guy who would love to manage more than what he's tendered. Pretty sure he's going to go where he makes the most money. If we match him, great. But 1 year for 2.433 million vs more money?!? You love the Bills more than he does.

[Doc]

Bates is 25 and going into the 4th year of his NFL career.  He's got time to make more money.  His best option is to take the 1-year tender, play on a SB-winning team and then cash-in next year.

[Brand J]

If Bates signs a contract that averages more than $3.9M/yr and Beane doesn’t match, I think it’ll be his one mistake this off-season.

I imagine Beane gambled and didn’t tender Bates at 2nd round compensation because he didn’t think another team valued him at $3.9M based on the limited time he was on the field. If he matches, then it’s simply allowing another team to do the contract work for him.

[billsfan89]

3 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

Oh yeah? How do you feel about CB depth?

 

The CB depth isn't great but I like Dane as a CB2 more than most. I also think that this coaching staff has shown to make chicken soup out of chicken ***** when it comes to the secondary. I think there is also more corners out on the market and better options deeper in the draft to figure out the CB position than the O-line. 

[Richard Noggin]

5 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Lol, because he wouldn't get millions here ?? If you're smart you know how to manage your money if not your going to blow it all anyway.

 

Always go for the championship.

 

 

In the uncertain, Not For Long career of a professional football player, hitting free agency while healthy and coming off a promising season, it would be kind of crazy to
choose currently perceived off-season TEAM power rankings over a rare chance at guaranteed money and contract term. The low RFA tender is still, of course, fine compensation for a year's work, but when compared to maybe twice the guaranteed money (or more...5+ million compared to 2.5) in such an unpredictable and brief career...well it's easy to understand the players who take the life-changing GUARANTEED payout. 

 

Guys who are later in their careers, after earning many millions, can more easily justify then leaving millions on the table to chase a ring. Of course to pleebs like many of us, any NFL salary for a year or more would be a life-altering haul.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, Rocky Landing said:

I've been wondering what Ike's future is, also. Even without the injury, I don't know that there was enough film on him to get a significant offer from another team. But, they've invested a lot of time in his development (I believe also occasionally using him as a C in practice?). He looked pretty good up until that non-contact injury-- seemed to improve each game. Do the Bills keep him? And does anyone know the timeline for his possible return?

 

It's hard to tell with an Achilles tear.  Some players don't come back at all.  These days something like 2/3-3/4 apparently do.

 

Eric Fischer tore his in the 2021 AFCCG and was back playing week 2 of the 2021 season, which must mean he returned to practice in about 8 months.  He acknowledged he was not fully recovered at first, and he improved as the season progressed.

 

There are some studies that say the first year back from the injury, the player is not as good, but after a year passes they regain their original performance

 

It's a huge blow for a guy who was just beginning to get NFL starts.

 

19 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

In the uncertain, Not For Long career of a professional football player, hitting free agency while healthy and coming off a promising season, it would be kind of crazy to
choose currently perceived off-season TEAM power rankings over a rare chance at guaranteed money and contract term. The low RFA tender is still, of course, fine compensation for a year's work, but when compared to maybe twice the guaranteed money (or more...5+ million compared to 2.5) in such an unpredictable and brief career...well it's easy to understand the players who take the life-changing GUARANTEED payout. 

 

Guys who are later in their careers, after earning many millions, can more easily justify then leaving millions on the table to chase a ring. Of course to pleebs like many of us, any NFL salary for a year or more would be a life-altering haul.

 

Sure - if the other team offers more guaranteed money.  But most NFL contracts offered to lower-tier players with minimal playing time, also have minimal guaranteed money. 

 

The tender is fully guaranteed.

 

I could be mistaken, but I think the most likely outcome is that another team may offer Bates a higher overall 2 year contract with a bit more guaranteed $$.  So he might get a 2 year, $6M contract with $3M guaranteed, for example.  Of course, as you point out, to most of us an extra $600k is Real Money.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 hours ago, Dopey said:

Lol???

I think Bates is on the same page as I am. Otherwise, he would have signed with us by now. Again, a championship isn't a given. The money is. Especially for an undrafted FA. Seems like a smart guy who would love to manage more than what he's tendered. Pretty sure he's going to go where he makes the most money. If we match him, great. But 1 year for 2.433 million vs more money?!? You love the Bills more than he does.

 

I agree with your overall point, but a key point for these guys to watch, always, is how much of that money is guaranteed and when?

 

An example of difference would be Jon Feliciano's contract with the Bills last season.  He was offered, and signed, a 3 year, $14.4M contract with the Bills.  But $4.4M was guaranteed.  So it was really a 1 year, $4.4M contract, with the employer's option to keep him around at a defined price-point if his play met their standard.

 

Bates could be offered a 2 year, $10M contract but if only $2.433M is guaranteed, he could in theory get cut by that team before the first day of the season and have only the same amount of pay.

 

[beerme1]

On 3/19/2022 at 10:18 AM, ScottLaw said:

Can’t imagine Ford is on the team next season… it would raise some red flags if he was…. 

 

Agreed but what if Lawn Chair says I can work him up?

[GolfandBills]

5 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

The Bills O-line is starting to be a real concern for me. They have 4 starting caliber linemen and not much else. Brining back Bates would be a nice move but this team then has very little depth. Only Doyle and Ford would be behind the starting 5. Without Bates there is a gaping hole at LG that should be filled at pick 25. 

They haven’t lost Bates.  I’m sure they will match any reasonable contract he’s offered.  I think they’ll give Ford a shot to be a reserve and probably draft a guard or two.  I’m not worried about it at all.  

[Dopey]

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I agree with your overall point, but a key point for these guys to watch, always, is how much of that money is guaranteed and when?

 

An example of difference would be Jon Feliciano's contract with the Bills last season.  He was offered, and signed, a 3 year, $14.4M contract with the Bills.  But $4.4M was guaranteed.  So it was really a 1 year, $4.4M contract, with the employer's option to keep him around at a defined price-point if his play met their standard.

 

Bates could be offered a 2 year, $10M contract but if only $2.433M is guaranteed, he could in theory get cut by that team before the first day of the season and have only the same amount of pay.

 

I'm that scenario, I agree. My point to Buffalo Barbarian was, Bates will take the best offer. If he gets a better offer, I highly doubt he'll turn it down to stay here to win a championship that's not guaranteed. That's"fan" talk. An NFL player's career, on average, is pretty short due to injury. He's going where the $ is. He's not a 1st round pick who's made huge money. I believe this is the first contract offer worth over $1 million. Hope we can somehow keep him. Not sure we'll match offers greater than ours, though.

[ExWNYer]

On 3/18/2022 at 1:53 PM, Hapless Bills Fan said:

I don't think we need multiple threads for every team that might try to poach the dude off his "right of first refusal" RFA tender by the Bills

 

A Bates watch thread? I think we got 'Rickrolled'. 😁

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, ExWNYer said:

 

A Bates watch thread? I think we got 'Rickrolled'. 😁

 

It's more than just a Bates thread. It was pinned to keep a hundred different Bates threads from popping up. 

 

So, in essence, it is a Master Bates thread...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 hours ago, beerme1 said:

 

Agreed but what if Lawn Chair says I can work him up?

 

Then Trust the Lawn Chair

 

6 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

It's more than just a Bates thread. It was pinned to keep a hundred different Bates threads from popping up. 

 

So, in essence, it is a Master Bates thread...

 

Niiiiiice.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Dopey said:

I'm that scenario, I agree. My point to Buffalo Barbarian was, Bates will take the best offer. If he gets a better offer, I highly doubt he'll turn it down to stay here to win a championship that's not guaranteed. That's"fan" talk. An NFL player's career, on average, is pretty short due to injury. He's going where the $ is. He's not a 1st round pick who's made huge money. I believe this is the first contract offer worth over $1 million. Hope we can somehow keep him. Not sure we'll match offers greater than ours, though.

 

I think Beane probably has a maximum contract in mind, and if that's the offer, he'll match it. 

 

I don't believe Beane that we're flat against the cap.  I think he has one or more moves he's ready to make to free more cap, but he'd love to see someone think we're broke and give Bates a qualifying offer sheet that's within our reach or within his idea of maximum contract.

 

I agree with you that NFL players, especially players at the bottom of the depth chart, need to be hard-headed and practical and take the money.

 

Look at Boettger, suffered a potentially career-ending injury near the end of the season.  Last year, if he turned down a qualifying offer for multiple years or more guaranteed money to take our tender, he'd be kicking himself in the keister right now (I don't think he did).

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

So in another thread, @NewEra brought up the valid point that Bates looked solid at LG at the end of this season, playing between our two best OLmen - Dawkins and Morse.

 

As RG, he'd be playing next to a guy who struggled at times in pass pro as a rookie.

 

Clearly at this point all Bates experience last year was at LG

 

Does anyone know whether he has snaps at RG with the Bills, and if so when/how much?

[GunnerBill]

I am told he will end up in Chicago. 

[billsfan1959]

@NewEra

@Hapless Bills Fan

 

From your question about how many snaps Bates has had in the NFL at RG:

 

Bates snaps in the NFL:

 

454 total snaps

 

LT      LG     C      RG     RT    ITE (Inline TE)

95     214    33    33     29          50

 

20 of those 33 snaps at RG came in the 2nd NE game last year. He played 79 total snaps in that game, 59 at LG and 20 at RG. 

So, he has played at RG in only 4 games: 8 snaps vs Seattle in 2020, 1 snap at SF in 2020, 4 snaps at NO in 20021, and the 20 snaps against NE in 2021.

Edited March 22, 2022 by billsfan1959

[FilthyBeast]

This Bates saga is a bit strange and raises a few questions in that either Beane did not think he would get much interest on the market and/or doesn't care if we lose him to another team.

 

Bates was a key piece of the oline rounding into form at the end of the season and into the playoffs but you still have to wonder if he's legit 16+ game starting material. If he does leave guard becomes another major priority along with DB.

[NewEra]

3 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

@NewEra

@Hapless Bills Fan

 

From your question about how many snaps Bates has had in the NFL at RG:

 

Bates snaps in the NFL:

 

454 total snaps

 

LT      LG     C      RG     RT    ITE (Inline TE)

95     214    33    33     29          50

 

20 of those 33 snaps at RG came in the 2nd NE game last year. He played 79 total snaps in that game, 59 at LG and 20 at RG. 

So, he has played at RG in only 4 games: 8 snaps vs Seattle in 2020, 1 snap at SF in 2020, 4 snaps at NO in 20021, and the 20 snaps against NE in 2021.

Much appreciated.  33 snaps is a little concerning to me.  I’m not going overboard with my concerns, but handing him the keys to a position that he such little experience playing is scary.  Even if he’s retained, we should be taking a guard in rd 1-3.  Can Jurgens in rd 3 is ideal to me…but I think we’d have to take him in rd 2, which I’m also fine with.  

[njbuff]

Even if the Bills re-sign Bates………

 

If Johnson or Green are there at 25, it might be difficult for the Bills to pass on either one of them.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am told he will end up in Chicago. 

 

Told by whom?

 

 

 

[billsfan1959]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

Much appreciated.  33 snaps is a little concerning to me.  I’m not going overboard with my concerns, but handing him the keys to a position that he such little experience playing is scary.  Even if he’s retained, we should be taking a guard in rd 1-3.  Can Jurgens in rd 3 is ideal to me…but I think we’d have to take him in rd 2, which I’m also fine with.  

 

I have been banging the drum for interior OL focus in the upcoming draft. They have the best damn QB in the NFL and drafting young linemen to put the very best line they can in front of him should be at the top of their list of priorities. I doubt Bates is coming back, but even if he did, he is not the caliber of starter they should be putting in front of Allen.

[NewEra]

9 minutes ago, FilthyBeast said:

This Bates saga is a bit strange and raises a few questions in that either Beane did not think he would get much interest on the market and/or doesn't care if we lose him to another team.

 

Bates was a key piece of the oline rounding into form at the end of the season and into the playoffs but you still have to wonder if he's legit 16+ game starting material. If he does leave guard becomes another major priority along with DB.

It should be a major priority even if we retain him imo.  Saffold will probably be gone after we win the SB.  He was banged up last season too.  Bates has 33 career snaps @ RG.  I’d draft an OG in rd 1-3 no matter what. 

[ColoradoBills]

Personally, I thought Beane was going to put a 2nd round tender on Bates.

He didn't but one thing we don't know is if any negotiations were going on for a longer term contract between the parties.

 

If Bates and his agent did talk a longer (say 2-3 year deal) he may have wanted more than Beane wanted to pay for his limited play.

The positive that might happen is a team offers a 2 or 3 year contract that Beane likes.

 

Let's put it this way.  If Beane did put the 2nd round on him it's $4M for 1 year and then if Bates plays well he will want a bigger deal.

This way other teams show what his market is today and gives an offer.  If Bates signs one it may be agreeable to Beane.

If Bates only gets lower than he believes he's worth offers he comes back to Buffalo for a one year deal on the cheap and reloads for a bigger payday 

next year.

 

I for one am more than willing to let this play out and see what happens.

[MrEpsYtown]

5 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Much appreciated.  33 snaps is a little concerning to me.  I’m not going overboard with my concerns, but handing him the keys to a position that he such little experience playing is scary.  Even if he’s retained, we should be taking a guard in rd 1-3.  Can Jurgens in rd 3 is ideal to me…but I think we’d have to take him in rd 2, which I’m also fine with.  

 

I am not too worried about him playing the RG spot. For Bates, he was primarily a left tackle in college, so it just may feel a little natural for him to play on the left side. I think center may actually be his best position. My concern with Bates playing the RG spot is the fact that he will be playing next to a relatively inexperienced RT in Brown. Ideally, Bates plays next to Dawkins and Brown plays next to Saffold. Saffold has played RG in the past, but the majority of his time has been spent at LG. 

 

I will say this...if Bates comes back and he becomes the starter at RG, it is great for him because he can just focus on playing one position. he doesn't have to worry about flipping sides or playing backup center. With his athleticism and his ability to adapt, being in one spot will be very good for him. Also, his experience at center gives him really good knowledge of the protections being called with Morse and Allen, so having two guys on the line wth that type of knowledge is great. 

[FilthyBeast]

1 minute ago, NewEra said:

It should be a major priority even if we retain him imo.  Saffold will probably be gone after we win the SB.  He was banged up last season too.  Bates has 33 career snaps @ RG.  I’d draft an OG in rd 1-3 no matter what. 

 

You are probably right, hard to see Beane not taking IOL somewhere in the top 3 rounds even if we pick up another bargain basement FA or two along the way.

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, njbuff said:

Even if the Bills re-sign Bates………

 

If Johnson or Green are there at 25, it might be difficult for the Bills to pass on either one of them.

Zion is the type of guy I wouldn’t have a problem drafting @ 25.  I’m not the biggest fan of taking IOL and I’d prefer to wait for jurgens in rd 2, but he might not even be there rd 2.  Protecting Josh matter more than anything imo.  I’m down with Zion @ 25

[MrEpsYtown]

11 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Told by whom?

 

 

 

 

27 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I am told he will end up in Chicago. 

 

Chicago has the cap space and makes the most sense. I guess they added Lucas Patrick from the Packers to a 2 year 8 million dollar deal to play center apparently. If they add Bates, are they really going to pay more than 2/8? The Bears new GM is a line guy and they have people in their front office who heavily scouted Bates and got him to sign in Philly. But going from James Daniels to Ryan Bates is not an upgrade. 

 

I myself would have gone 2nd round tender. 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

I am not too worried about him playing the RG spot. For Bates, he was primarily a left tackle in college, so it just may feel a little natural for him to play on the left side. I think center may actually be his best position. My concern with Bates playing the RG spot is the fact that he will be playing next to a relatively inexperienced RT in Brown. Ideally, Bates plays next to Dawkins and Brown plays next to Saffold. Saffold has played RG in the past, but the majority of his time has been spent at LG. 

 

I will say this...if Bates comes back and he becomes the starter at RG, it is great for him because he can just focus on playing one position. he doesn't have to worry about flipping sides or playing backup center. With his athleticism and his ability to adapt, being in one spot will be very good for him. Also, his experience at center gives him really good knowledge of the protections being called with Morse and Allen, so having two guys on the line wth that type of knowledge is great. 

I mentioned Bates playing next to brown as opposed to Dawkins in a previous thread.  It’s something that isn’t being discussed very much and I think it could have played a part in his tender and possibly moving on from him.  I have confidence that Beane will plug the hole properly, but still worried because Ford is currently the place holder.  
 

trai Turner played ok last year.  Maybe him on a 1 year 3-4M contract could be beneficial for both the player and team

3 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

 

Chicago has the cap space and makes the most sense. I guess they added Lucas Patrick from the Packers to a 2 year 8 million dollar deal to play center apparently. If they add Bates, are they really going to pay more than 2/8? The Bears new GM is a line guy and they have people in their front office who heavily scouted Bates and got him to sign in Philly. But going from James Daniels to Ryan Bates is not an upgrade. 

 

I myself would have gone 2nd round tender. 

I would’ve gone 2nd rd too…..but maybe they are looking for an upgrade.  I’m hoping anyway. 

[billsfan1959]

2 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Zion is the type of guy I wouldn’t have a problem drafting @ 25.  I’m not the biggest fan of taking IOL and I’d prefer to wait for jurgens in rd 2, but he might not even be there rd 2.  Protecting Josh matter more than anything imo.  I’m down with Zion @ 25

 

Yep. I would normally not even suggest an interor lineman in the 1st. The game has changed and having a franchise QB and protecting that franchise QB are the top priorities now. IMO, it means taking a Guard later in the 1st rd is absolutely fine. If we don't take him at 25, he won't get by Green Bay, Miami, KC, or Cincinnati behind us.