Breece Hall Please!!

[NewEra]

11 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No idea how “a bit of ground and pound” is the solution to our offensive woes with Josh Allen as the QB…. Amazing that some fans have concluded that taking the ball out of Josh’s hands MORE  should be the plan going forward and they need to spend a 1st round pick on a guy to do that. 😅

There are several possible solutions.  There’s no one way to go out and win a super bowl.  We have Josh Allen….there are several ways to game plan for winning a super bowl.  

[SoCal Deek]

1 minute ago, IronMaidenBills said:

The problem is, teams know that Singletary and Moss have no speed and they are no threat to break one outside. That is a problem. Defenses need to be afraid of every inch of the football field. Defenses need to be afraid of what play is going to happen. If they see Singletary in the back field, defenses are going to guess that Singletary will not run a route, and chances are they will be more right than wrong. It’s a major weakness that good coordinators can key in on. Breece Hall makes the offense incredibly dangerous because his 4.39 speed getting to the outside, catching ability make it so defenses will never feel comfortable. They are to comfortable when Singletary and Moss are on the field. 

Thanks....and possibly correct. I wish I knew enough about coaching O Line strategy to say whether that's true or not. I've been of the mindset that having Josh Allen and the WRs was enough of a threat to keep defenses honest against the run game. It keeps them from stacking the box. What I've seen instead is a very weak blocking scheme in which the RB almost never has a hole on the INSIDE. You think it's speed. I don't. The difference you'll get from a 4.39 guy when you're only traveling from the hand-off to the hole is probably a millionth of a second.  That cannot possibly make that much of a difference. (My two cents)

Go Bills

[njbuff]

7 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said:

The problem is, teams know that Singletary and Moss have no speed and they are no threat to break one outside. That is a problem. Defenses need to be afraid of every inch of the football field. Defenses need to be afraid of what play is going to happen. If they see Singletary in the back field, defenses are going to guess that Singletary will not run a route, and chances are they will be more right than wrong. It’s a major weakness that good coordinators can key in on. Breece Hall makes the offense incredibly dangerous because his 4.39 speed getting to the outside, catching ability make it so defenses will never feel comfortable. They are to comfortable when Singletary and Moss are on the field. 

 

I'm in the minority, but I have said I am fine with the Bills drafting Hall at 25.

 

But we all know that they are attempting to trade up for a player they really want.

[muppy]

3 minutes ago, njbuff said:

 

I'm in the minority, but I have said I am fine with the Bills drafting Hall at 25.

 

But we all know that they are attempting to trade up for a player they really want.

either or scenario is where I'm at.  Hall or trade UP are my guesses.  Stoked for tomorrow Me? Not at all ***Oh Yes I am***** 🙂

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I want the best player on the field to get as many opportunities as possible….that is Josh Allen and it ain’t and won’t be close next season no matter who they add in the backfield…. There are several solutions but there is no doubt having Josh chuck it all over the field is the BEST way for them to get it done…. Not force feeding a balanced offense. It’s why I mentioned several times this off-season the Bills play calling against the Chiefs in the middle of that game was down right bad in that it was too conservative… specifically on 3rd and short. 

Even if we draft Breece Hall, Josh allen will get plenty of opportunities.  Enough opportunities.  We can’t continue to give him the carries that we gave him in last years playoffs……until we get to the playoffs.  Once we get to the playoffs, it’ll be Josh, Josh and more Josh….but that can’t be the way all season.   It’ll be Halls or whoever our RB is’ job to get Josh through the regular season healthy by helping him move the chains and relieve him of some beating.  

[John from Riverside]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Even if we draft Breece Hall, Josh allen will get plenty of opportunities.  Enough opportunities.  We can’t continue to give him the carries that we gave him in last years playoffs……until we get to the playoffs.  Once we get to the playoffs, it’ll be Josh, Josh and more Josh….but that can’t be the way all season.   It’ll be Halls or whoever our RB is’ job to get Josh through the regular season healthy by helping him move the chains and relieve him of some beating.  

I am spoiled

I want Josh to throw it all over the field

Then I want to be able to choke the life out of other teams with our running game when we are up by 3 scores....i want to be able to run the ball in bad weather

[without a drought]

Maybe they should wait till next year to draft Singletary's replacement.

[Aurelius]

21 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

But that wasn’t the case in the playoffs against KC for a good chunk of the game on crucial downs… I believe there were at least three 3rd and shorts where they either gave it to Singletary or McKenzie, were subsequently stopped for no gain, and then punted…. Anyway, think it’s a waste of a first rounder on a back but just my opinion that I’m sure will be proven right when Hall turns into an somewhat easily replaceable back in the NFL as just about all are.

 

A lot of the ineptitude was Daboll’s play calls on first down.  We ran stupid dive plays up the middle incessantly for no gain.  We played a ton of games with basically 3 downs because first down was thrown away.  
 

This issue was a combo of poor early down coaching, lack of good blocking and middling running backs.  I think the line is being addressed.  Daboll is gone so no idea what Dorsey will do, but we need to be in better positions after first and second down.  We also need a premier running back.  

[NewEra]

19 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

But that wasn’t the case in the playoffs against KC for a good chunk of the game on crucial downs… I believe there were at least three 3rd and shorts where they either gave it to Singletary or McKenzie, were subsequently stopped for no gain, and then punted…. Anyway, think it’s a waste of a first rounder on a back but just my opinion that I’m sure will be proven right when Hall turns into an somewhat easily replaceable back in the NFL as just about all are.

 

He can’t be the only guy all game every game.  No player is.  Pat Mahomes won a SB and Damian Williams had a couple big plays.  If you expect every playoff game to be all josh and no RB ever, than you’ll be disappointed.  As usual.  
 

I feel that the only way to criticize the potential drafting of Breece hall is to classify it as bad value due to positional value.  
 

Saying that drafting a Rb is bad because we would use josh allen less is just lazy and false.  “Don’t upgrade because we have a great QB and wouldn’t use him as much”  weak.   A stud Rb would help us and our offense as long as Dorsey does a decent job.  

[Pabstblueribbon]

This thread is wild. The for and against arguments have had me flip-flopping like crazy just lurking and watching lol. 

 

Ultimately I think that with Kromer back, hopefully coaching up a blocking scheme that will actually produce lanes + motor will be adequate. He's never going to be a "game-breaker" but that's why we stacked Josh with so many receiving tools.  We're just too thin at CB this year and have several key players coming up on contract years to spend the capital on a rb in round 1. 

 

I'll keep on lurking and undoubtedly change my mind 4 to 6 more times prior to our selection tomorrow night though

[Dr. Who]

Just now, NewEra said:

He can’t be the only guy all game every game.  No player is.  Pat Mahomes won a SB and Damian Williams had a couple big plays.  If you expect every playoff game to be all josh and no RB ever, than you’ll be disappointed.  As usual.  
 

I feel that the only way to criticize the potential drafting of Breece hall is to classify it as bad value due to positional value.  
 

Saying that drafting a Rb is bad because we would use josh allen less is just lazy and false.  “Don’t upgrade because we have a great QB and wouldn’t use him as much”  weak.   A stud Rb would help us and our offense as long as Dorsey does a decent job.  

Well, I'd use any combination of players and next year's draft capital to go get Jameson Williams. I think if we are reticent, someone like KC will swoop in and everyone is going to regret it for years. Among other things, I do not want to hear the media crowd gushing about the next Tyreek Hill and Mahomes. Give me Williams and Kenneth Walker @57, then go db and oline, sign a vet cb or trade for Bradberry, hopefully with some salary retained. IF we stick at 25, Hall may be the option that is most appealing. I sure as hell don't want that cb, Elam, and I'm starting to think there are more medical issues with Booth that are causing him to drop. (Alternative: include Poyer as part of compensation to move up for Williams, still trade for Bradberry. Poyer's salary helps offset Bradberry's -- then draft Cine in the second, James Cook in the third. (Yes, UGA bias, but it was a stacked team.) But then again, I still think you could trade back a bit and grab Hall.

 

Pretty sure the draft needs to hurry up and happen so I can retain a semblance of sanity and get on with life . . . 

[Kangaxx]

My Breece Hall jersey is en route to be delivered. 

[Milanos Milano]

I have a few players that I won’t mind if they are the choice. Jameson, sauce and Stingley are players I would trade up for if it made sense. If Booth, Kyler, Zion, Dotson are the picks so be it. I would like Hall, but the others are great players. I wouldn’t even be mad if we took the DT from Georgia . 

[SoTier]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

You sound like you think Hall is the next Adrian Peterson or OJ Simpson. There is a reason why Hall isn't even considered a 1st round pick. Sure he could be a nice pro runner but let's keep it in the right perspective. One scouting report states some concerns such as he runs high, not a one cut and go guy, limited zone scheme runner, and takes too long to get vertical. The guy is anything but a lock. The guy doesn't automatically equate to a home run hitter in the pros. I'd be happy trading down and getying him in the 40s because it's worth the risk. At 25, that's too rich when he almost certainly will be on the board at 35 plus. 

 

I believe that Buddy Nix thought the same thing about Russell Wilson before the third round of the 2012 draft.

 

52 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

No idea how “a bit of ground and pound” is the solution to our offensive woes with Josh Allen as the QB…. Amazing that some fans have concluded that taking the ball out of Josh’s hands MORE  should be the plan going forward and they need to spend a 1st round pick on a guy to do that. 😅

 

I don't think anybody is advocating this.  I think that posters pushing for Hall believe that a better run game gives the Bills a more diverse offense which makes it harder for defenses to stop and that Hall makes the run game better.   I happen to share the belief that the Bills need a better run game, so I'm good with the Bills taking Hall at #25 but I would prefer them to take one of the top centers -- Zion Johnson or Tyler Linderbaum -- because that would also improve the run game by improving the OL IMO.

 

A better run game, whether it's achieved by adding a faster RB or by adding a stud on the interior OL, is the best way to protect Allen.  He should not be expected to have more than 1 or 2 designed run plays a game.   If the Bills RBs can run for 3 yards or so pretty much whenever they want to, especially in the Red Zone, that takes the pressure off Allen to run.  They couldn't do that last season without Allen running, and that needs to change.  It's playing Russian roulette.

 

 

[Milanos Milano]

Even Daxton and McDuffie make sense. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I have a few players that I won’t mind if they are the choice. Jameson, sauce and Stingley are players I would trade up for if it made sense. If Booth, Kyler, Zion, Dotson are the picks so be it. I would like Hall, but the others are great players. I wouldn’t even be mad if we took the DT from Georgia . 

Jordan Davis is going way earlier than folks think. He's not getting close to 25.

[Milanos Milano]

Just now, Dr. Who said:

Jordan Davis is going way earlier than folks think. He's not getting close to 25.

I mean if we trade up. I’m not going to be mad. 

[Dr. Who]

Just now, IronMaidenBills said:

I mean if we trade up. I’m not going to be mad. 

Oh, well, I am Dawgs fan, love Davis, but that is not good asset management, imo. I would trade up for Jameson Williams, Sause or Stingley. DT you really shouldn't.

[JoshAllin]

So if Hall pans out to be a mix of Breida and Moss v2.0 wouldn't this be a bad look for picking a 1st rounder. Would be suprised if Beane went that route considering how bad bills have been with their RB's in general and the OL problems they've had

[TFBillsfan]

If the Bills were picking in the top 20, I’d be more against Hall. However depending on how the board falls when the Bills pick I think he’s certainly in consideration along with CB, WR and OL. Drafting in the later round makes it a lot more difficult to be truly upset on who they draft. Beane and the staff has earned our trust. If it’s Hall so be it.

[Milanos Milano]

9 minutes ago, TFBillsfan said:

If the Bills were picking in the top 20, I’d be more against Hall. However depending on how the board falls when the Bills pick I think he’s certainly in consideration along with CB, WR and OL. Drafting in the later round makes it a lot more difficult to be truly upset on who they draft. Beane and the staff has earned our trust. If it’s Hall so be it.

Yep, it’s the 25th pick in a draft where Beane has said there isn’t a full round of first round grades. Anyone being mad at Hall as the pick would be silly. 

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:

Well, I'd use any combination of players and next year's draft capital to go get Jameson Williams. I think if we are reticent, someone like KC will swoop in and everyone is going to regret it for years. Among other things, I do not want to hear the media crowd gushing about the next Tyreek Hill and Mahomes. Give me Williams and Kenneth Walker @57, then go db and oline, sign a vet cb or trade for Bradberry, hopefully with some salary retained. IF we stick at 25, Hall may be the option that is most appealing. I sure as hell don't want that cb, Elam, and I'm starting to think there are more medical issues with Booth that are causing him to drop. (Alternative: include Poyer as part of compensation to move up for Williams, still trade for Bradberry. Poyer's salary helps offset Bradberry's -- then draft Cine in the second, James Cook in the third. (Yes, UGA bias, but it was a stacked team.) But then again, I still think you could trade back a bit and grab Hall.

 

Pretty sure the draft needs to hurry up and happen so I can retain a semblance of sanity and get on with life . . . 

I agree.  I would trade up for Williams too.   I’m thinking it’s gonna take a top 13 pick though.  Unless schoen gives us a discount, it’ll cost a lot. Maybe too much. 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

I caught Schopp and Bulldog on a rant about why you should NEVER take a RB in round 1 today...........and it was one of the most entertaining bits I've ever heard on WGR. 

 

It would so obviously be a stupid thing to do. 

 

But at the same time...........I do think the Bills could literally forfeit the 25th pick and still win a SB next year..........it's not an organizational maker/breaker.

 

So from that aspect..........the entertainment value of them taking Hall would be off the charts.

 

Schopp is right.........it would be GREAT for his show.    

 

Nobody cares to talk about good picks.  

 

Only controversial ones.

 

And this would probably be the most reviled and/or polarizing pick in Bills history because of the peaked interest of the fan base and the social media aspect of the time.

 

It would be wildly controversial here on TSW..........that's why this thread is so long.

 

I'm not a finish line fan.........I want them to win a SB but I'm a fan either way and entertainment value is very important to me........it's one of the reasons I really didn't enjoy the mind-numbingly boring 2017 season until the very end.............and I can tell you that drafting Hall would be win/win from the entertainment aspect. 

 

Either he would be GREAT and it would be entertaining to watch...........or he will be anything south of GREAT and it will be fun to listen to and read about.

 

His first stop short on 3rd down and the stadium will sound like his name is Bruce instead of Breece. 

 

It will get ugly........but ugly is better than boring.........and like I said he could end up a healthy scratch on a SB team........he is't making it happen......great RB's and SB's don't mix for the past couple decades.........but a bonehead pick probably won't break their season either.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[FeelingOnYouboty]

55 minutes ago, Kangaxx said:

My Breece Hall jersey is en route to be delivered. 

 

Make sure you get the #1 on the back because that's as big as a lock as Breece Hall is at #25. He will be a Buffalo Bill player tomorrow night.

[Logic]

 

[Warriorspikes51]

A meltdown at 25 vs it’s a good pick at 35 is amusing and illogical

[muppy]

2 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

No idea how “a bit of ground and pound” is the solution to our offensive woes with Josh Allen as the QB…. Amazing that some fans have concluded that taking the ball out of Josh’s hands MORE  should be the plan going forward and they need to spend a 1st round pick on a guy to do that. 😅

hey ScottLaw . My point is a dynamic offensive weapon to add to the  Josh Allen offensive quiver would never be a bad idea imo

 

It seems you and I will need to agree to disagree

Edited April 27, 2022 by muppy

[muppy]

22 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

I caught Schopp and Bulldog on a rant about why you should NEVER take a RB in round 1 today...........and it was one of the most entertaining bits I've ever heard on WGR. 

 

It would so obviously be a stupid thing to do. 

 

But at the same time...........I do think the Bills could literally forfeit the 25th pick and still win a SB next year..........it's not an organizational maker/breaker.

 

So from that aspect..........the entertainment value of them taking Hall would be off the charts.

 

Schopp is right.........it would be GREAT for his show.    

 

Nobody cares to talk about good picks.  

 

Only controversial ones.

 

And this would probably be the most reviled and/or polarizing pick in Bills history because of the peaked interest of the fan base and the social media aspect of the time.

 

It would be wildly controversial here on TSW..........that's why this thread is so long.

 

I'm not a finish line fan.........I want them to win a SB but I'm a fan either way and entertainment value is very important to me........it's one of the reasons I really didn't enjoy the mind-numbingly boring 2017 season until the very end.............and I can tell you that drafting Hall would be win/win from the entertainment aspect. 

 

Either he would be GREAT and it would be entertaining to watch...........or he will be anything south of GREAT and it will be fun to listen to and read about.

 

His first stop short on 3rd down and the stadium will sound like his name is Bruce instead of Breece. 

 

It will get ugly........but ugly is better than boring.........and like I said he could end up a healthy scratch on a SB team........he is't making it happen......great RB's and SB's don't mix for the past couple decades.........but a bonehead pick probably won't break their season either.

 

 

this is classic  badobilz take  right there.   Obviously stupid SMH at near the end of the first round? I disagree.  But you do you. you will anyway. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by muppy

[FeelingOnYouboty]

The best part about Breece Hall is that we're not going to have to run Josh Allen as much. Save the QB designed runs for the playoffs. This pick will extend Josh Allen's career as he won't be taking as many hits. 

 

Guaranteed OROY in our offense. Makes us a COMPLETE offensive side. All those little frustrating 3 yard runs that Devin Singletary was getting the last two years will be 7 yards etc.

 

He catches out of the backfield and has home run speed. He's going to have to learn how to block better as that's his biggest weakness. 

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

A meltdown at 25 vs it’s a good pick at 35 is amusing and illogical

 

 

Agreed.

 

If you think that way you don't really understand why taking a RB early is a bad idea.

 

It's not a matter of 10 spaces or 5th year options.

 

It's debatable whether taking RB's in round 3 in back to back years wasn't an unnecessary over-invest.

 

Taking one in round 1 or early round 2 still defies logic.

 

If you are picking at 35 you should still have viable options at premium positions.  

 

 

[Warriorspikes51]

Ben Allbright mocked him to us

[Magox]

Very interesting perspective from Albright, essentially making the case that choosing a first round RB is not as bad of a move as once thought of.  Saying that you can pick up the fifth year option, franchise him after and you can have 6 good years which is their typical shelf life with a relatively low cost.

 

It’s all part of the new analytics way of thinking about it.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

5 minutes ago, muppy said:

this is classic  badobilz take  right there.   Obviously stupid SMH at near the end of the first round? I disagree.  But you do you. you will anyway. 

 

In the past 30 years the Bills haven't once lived to regret not selecting a RB in round 1 who subsequently went in round 1.

 

The only regrets are the one's they did select.

 

ALL of them.

 

Drafting RB's in round 1 being dumb is "OJ did it" obvious..........except here the civil aspect is the actual decision.

 

You may not like the take but you'd be betting against some incredibly steep odds to think it would turn into an excellent choice.

 

Schopp said he "felt alive" having the debate LOL.   

 

That's why we are here........either to be entertained in my case......or to vent emotionally in yours. 

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

I believe that Buddy Nix thought the same thing about Russell Wilson before the third round of the 2012 draft.

 

 

I don't think anybody is advocating this.  I think that posters pushing for Hall believe that a better run game gives the Bills a more diverse offense which makes it harder for defenses to stop and that Hall makes the run game better.   I happen to share the belief that the Bills need a better run game, so I'm good with the Bills taking Hall at #25 but I would prefer them to take one of the top centers -- Zion Johnson or Tyler Linderbaum -- because that would also improve the run game by improving the OL IMO.

 

A better run game, whether it's achieved by adding a faster RB or by adding a stud on the interior OL, is the best way to protect Allen.  He should not be expected to have more than 1 or 2 designed run plays a game.   If the Bills RBs can run for 3 yards or so pretty much whenever they want to, especially in the Red Zone, that takes the pressure off Allen to run.  They couldn't do that last season without Allen running, and that needs to change.  It's playing Russian roulette.

 

 

I agree with most of your take. However, thr Bills run game was good or better than good in the latter part of last year. Singletary was running well, pass catching, making big plays, and scoring touchdowns. Part of his success was the Oline and the changes and commitments they made to running the ball. I'm not sure why people here are so down on the Bills running game? Sure, moves can always be made to improve it. Additionally, I believe you let Allen make plays with his legs. You don't take that great asset off the table. It can be dialed back as needed. He has shown the ability to be durable. Nevertheless, I do cringe when he's running.

 

I'd rather go the route of improving the Oline than select the "shiney new toy" named Hall. I don't feel like Hall is elite or will be elite. No way does he warrant being picked at 25. 

 

[OldTimer1960]

16 minutes ago, FeelingOnYouboty said:

The best part about Breece Hall is that we're not going to have to run Josh Allen as much. Save the QB designed runs for the playoffs. This pick will extend Josh Allen's career as he won't be taking as many hits. 

 

Guaranteed OROY in our offense. Makes us a COMPLETE offensive side. All those little frustrating 3 yard runs that Devin Singletary was getting the last two years will be 7 yards etc.

 

He catches out of the backfield and has home run speed. He's going to have to learn how to block better as that's his biggest weakness. 

I don’t think Hall is a bad player, but I think some have visions of an instant Hall of Famer.  He is not a sure thing especially behind a middling OL.  I guess better than Allen have to run so much, but most RBs can take some carries - don’t need to use a first round pick for that.  I’ll grant that Hall is a better receiver than Singletary, but not sure he is better than Duke Johnson at receiving.

[newcam2012]

1 hour ago, Dr. Who said:

Oh, well, I am Dawgs fan, love Davis, but that is not good asset management, imo. I would trade up for Jameson Williams, Sause or Stingley. DT you really shouldn't.

While you are out it you should.ishould.include not picking Hall at 25. Talk about bad asset management. Hes going to be available past pick 35 maybe into the 50s. 

[Solomon Grundy]

2 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

I don’t think Hall is a bad player, but I think some have visions of an instant Hall of Famer.  He is not a sure thing especially behind a middling OL.  I guess better than Allen have to run so much, but most RBs can take some carries - don’t need to use a first round pick for that.  I’ll grant that Hall is a better receiver than Singletary, but not sure he is better than Duke Johnson at receiving.

Will Duke Johnson make the final roster? 

[Milanos Milano]

The Vegas odds have tremendously shifted in favor of RB in the first round for the Bills (more than likely Hall). Curtesy of @Logic .  Someone in the know knows. 

Edited April 27, 2022 by IronMaidenBills

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Magox said:

Very interesting perspective from Albright, essentially making the case that choosing a first round RB is not as bad of a move as once thought of.  Saying that you can pick up the fifth year option, franchise him after and you can have 6 good years which is their typical shelf life with a relatively low cost.

 

It’s all part of the new analytics way of thinking about it.

 

 

 

 

It's really not part of the new analytics. 

 

That's just bad math.

 

If the RB plays well enough in his first 3 seasons to be worth of the fully guaranteed, pricey 5th year option(for a RB).........or heaven forbid, the franchise tag..........then they will likely be withholding services after year 3 to FORCE a new contract.

 

See Zeke Elliott or Christian McCaffrey.........two tears of regret into the pillow of remorse. 

 

So ideally..........I guess you need that 1st round RB to play just well enough in his first 3 seasons to not have any leverage to hold out.

 

You know.........like Devin Singletary.

 

4.5-5 yards per carry but only about 800 or so yards rushing........just south of the 1,000 magic number.

 

 

Edited April 27, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[LeGOATski]

19 minutes ago, Magox said:

Very interesting perspective from Albright, essentially making the case that choosing a first round RB is not as bad of a move as once thought of.  Saying that you can pick up the fifth year option, franchise him after and you can have 6 good years which is their typical shelf life with a relatively low cost.

 

It’s all part of the new analytics way of thinking about it.

 

 

6 years is the shelf life of a great RB? That sounds like the shelf life of an average RB at best. Why pick an average RB in the first round? And why pick a player in the first round that you've predetermined you won't sign to a 2nd deal?