Hyde contract restructured

[Mango]

14 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Cap moves Bills still have left pretty easily with little impact to talent level.

 

Beasley - cut/trade/paycut

Diggs - Extension

White - Restructure

Edmunds - Extension

Dawkins - Restructure

Poyer - Restructure

Milano - Restructure

Star - Cut (Post June 1 Designation)

 

 

Wouldn't Poyer make sense with his contract expiring this year? 

[No_Matter_What]

2 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

A bunch of numbers are missing on OTC and Spotrac. 

Any idea what our space is looking like in 2023? 

Right now roughly 45M.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

 

But it will be less than 15M once all FA contracts, restructures and rookie contracts kick in. Maybe even close to zero. And that will be without Edmunds and hopefully Knox extensions.

[First Round Bust]

1 hour ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Is that all it does? Damn

so you want to play GM... the draft is going to cost another 6M to sign the rooks, plus dead cap as of today is at 9.9M not counting possible release of #11 which would add another 1M+ plus, plus Beano wants to carry a surplus of 2M+, plus you got to pay the practice squad barnyard animals,BTW, no backup (vet) qb signed as of yet...then you got to decide whether to keep Star or not...then likely Diggs extension, and maybe Edmunds...and we wonder why there are some decision misses along the way...

Edited March 16, 2022 by First Round Bust

[MAJBobby]

5 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Hmm why do you think that? McKissic is 7/2, so probably around 2.5M first year. If Jones rumors are correct, he is 14/2, so at least 5M first year. Saffold has a dummy year, but I doubt his cap hit this year is less than 4M. So that is at least 11M together.

Because they would not have done it if they didnt need to fit these players.  I fully think that they will fit.  within the 8.M 

 

Like Settle for example. his cap is 2.6M this year.  and that is on a 4.5AAV they were able to structure for roughly 2M lower than AAV this year.  so that mind set with the others they can get them fit in 8.M IMO

7 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

Wouldn't Poyer make sense with his contract expiring this year? 

Sorry meant extension there.  will fix it

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

The Saints are cap masters. 

[Cheektowaga Chad]

Bills kicking the can down the road

 

Honestly if they continue to offer and sign players to smart contracts that allows restructuring they will be able to continue to do this for the foreseeable future 

 

Sign your core to long term deals, sign secondary players to shorter term easy to get out of deals and most importantly develop players from the draft  

[Sierra Foothills]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

 

Gonna be way more than that...it's going to go up probably $80-90 million over the next 4 years. Those TV contracts getting ready to kick in are MASSIVE

 

Not to mention all the legalized gambling revenue the league has just started collecting.

 

On a related subject I notice a huge reliance on Spotrac and an under reliance on OvertheCap: https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

 

I've found that their numbers often differ, especially on individual player projections, Levi Wallace being a good example of that.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, the cap is fake.

 

Also credit cards. You don't really have to pay them back at all.

Thank you!  That helps me out a bunch.

[Sierra Foothills]

3 minutes ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

The Saints are cap masters. 

 

If by masters you mean good at racking up lots of credit card debt, yes they are.

[Mango]

18 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Right now roughly 45M.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

 

But it will be less than 15M once all FA contracts, restructures and rookie contracts kick in. Maybe even close to zero. And that will be without Edmunds and hopefully Knox extensions.

 

 

That was my big fear heading into this offseason. Getting through it without trashing the next year. 

$15M is OK. But we have Edmunds, Knox, Poyer, 

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

1 minute ago, Sierra Foothills said:

 

If by masters you mean good at racking up lots of credit card debt, yes they are.

The axe never really comes down. They've been running circles around it for a decade+.

[BrooklynBills]

1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said:

Hmm per sportrac they spread it over 5 years, creating 3 void years with dead cap §1.1M each.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/micah-hyde-12440/

 

Not sure I like this. 

 

But like I said I will judge once FA is over.

 

  

 

Well it is not all we are doing. We are also creating lot of dead cap for future years. I am not saying we shouldn't do it but it is important to note.

 

I would imagine that they have every intention of re-signing Hyde after this season which would essentially tear up those void years. 

[Sierra Foothills]

1 minute ago, 2020 Our Year For Sure said:

The axe never really comes down. They've been running circles around it for a decade+.

 

Fair enough... it seems that way.

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

This cap stuff is confusing. All I know is bring us more players! 

It's pretty straight forward.  If you need to free up cap space, make it a signing bonus in a restructured contract.

 

Most of the other numbers are really irrelevant.

[TheFunPolice]

26 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Right now roughly 45M.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

 

But it will be less than 15M once all FA contracts, restructures and rookie contracts kick in. Maybe even close to zero. And that will be without Edmunds and hopefully Knox extensions.

 

and Star will still have 4 years left on his contract, and it will be impossible to get out until NEXT YEAR. Always next year!

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, No_Matter_What said:

We are also creating lot of dead cap for future years. I am not saying we shouldn't do it but it is important to note.

So, this is where the front office guys are earning their money.  It's not really "dead" cap if the guy is still playing for you.  It does reduce the amount of cap room you have in a future year, for sure, but if the guy is still productive in your lineup, it hurts less.  All you've done is averaged the cost of the guy across the years he's playing for you.  

 

The restructured deals are typically with guys the Bills project will be around to cover the "dead" cap.  They think Hyde will.  Presumably they think Milano will.  

 

It's related to what I just said in the thread about why McBeane don't sign superstars in free agency.  In both cases, they're considering the average cost of the player over his playing career.  

 

Still, there is an element of kicking the can down the road here, because dead cap is dead cap.  But the good teams, and the Bills are one of those, seem to know how to manage it, year after year, to keep a steady stream of talent coming and staying in the building.   

[No_Matter_What]

5 minutes ago, BrooklynBills said:

 

I would imagine that they have every intention of re-signing Hyde after this season which would essentially tear up those void years. 

As far as I understand it any re-signing will not help with those void years. If we re-sign him whatever we pay him takes another cap space, in addition to existing dead cap (3,4M).

25 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Because they would not have done it if they didnt need to fit these players.  I fully think that they will fit.  within the 8.M 

 

Like Settle for example. his cap is 2.6M this year.  and that is on a 4.5AAV they were able to structure for roughly 2M lower than AAV this year.  so that mind set with the others they can get them fit in 8.M IMO

 

I highly doubt that it is even possible to fit McKissic, Jones and Saffold within 8M cap this year, provided that 14/2 Jones number published by agent is remotely accurate.

 

We will revisit this once the numbers are known, I'll find you

 

Thanks for the job you are doing in this thread / FA thread btw.

[No_Matter_What]

15 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

So, this is where the front office guys are earning their money.  It's not really "dead" cap if the guy is still playing for you.  It does reduce the amount of cap room you have in a future year, for sure, but if the guy is still productive in your lineup, it hurts less.  All you've done is averaged the cost of the guy across the years he's playing for you.  

 

The restructured deals are typically with guys the Bills project will be around to cover the "dead" cap.  They think Hyde will.  Presumably they think Milano will.  

 

It's related to what I just said in the thread about why McBeane don't sign superstars in free agency.  In both cases, they're considering the average cost of the player over his playing career.  

 

Still, there is an element of kicking the can down the road here, because dead cap is dead cap.  But the good teams, and the Bills are one of those, seem to know how to manage it, year after year, to keep a steady stream of talent coming and staying in the building.   

Yeah I know. I meant (i) dead cap from void years and (ii) restructures of active players. In the end both means kicking the can down the road. Past years we've made very few of these moves, since we didn't have to. Now we will have to. I fully trust Beane to be smart, it is just an uncharted territory for this regime imo.

Edited March 16, 2022 by No_Matter_What

[TheyCallMeAndy]

#FitzMoney

[RyanC883]

HOPEFULLY D players restructuring means they know the need for an elite pass rusher, and Bean is on it.  

[Shaw66]

Just now, No_Matter_What said:

Yeah I know. I meant dead cap from void years and restructures of active players. In the end it is kicking down the road. Past years we've made very few of these moves, since we didn't have to. Now we will have to. I fully trust Beane to be smart, it is just an uncharted territory for this regime imo.

I'm amazed whenever I hear from a guy like you, who actually has some understanding of how it all works.  There was a time when I was more interested in and had a better understanding, but I eventually decided I didn't care all that much about it - just hope the people managing the cap for the Bills know what they're doing.   

 

I agree, it's uncharted territory for the Bills, but I think it isn't a mystery to McBeane.  They've been living in cap-world for fifteen years, and they've learned along the way. 

 

I do think it's interesting to see the personnel themes become clear over the years.    Keep acquiring draft capital, and use draft capital to acquire your stars, including Diggs.  Don't buy top talent in free agency.   Keep your good drafted talent (not just your stars, like Allen, but also the second tier guys like Milano.  It's like the objective is to have a core of ten to fifteen guys who are the heart of your team (your stars and your second tier), and continue to add to that core, because some will be leaving.  Then fill out your team with guys who will follow the lead of that core, guys who will come and go but who need to be the right guys to work with the core.   Like Levi Wallace - he was never going to be a core player, but he was a solid contributor.   You know you're going to lose him, because he needs a good payday somewhere along the line, and he isn't your core, so you won't give him the payday.   

 

No surprise, having seen and heard McDermott for several years now, that this is a very disciplined approach.   McDermott believes in it, and he knows that making work requires deep, honest, personal relationships with his players.   He's honest with Wallace about his future, he's honest with Milano, and he's honest with Allen.  It's a system that promises Allen that he's always going to be surrounded by talent, it promises Milano that he can be part of a winning program, and it promises Wallace that he's going to be pushed and trained to be the best player he can be, so that he can earn that payday.  

 

Easier said than done, but I think we're watching it happen. 

[RyanC883]

52 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

Right now roughly 45M.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/buffalo-bills/cap/2023/

 

But it will be less than 15M once all FA contracts, restructures and rookie contracts kick in. Maybe even close to zero. And that will be without Edmunds and hopefully Knox extensions.

 

hopefully Edmunds replacement is drafted.  Don't want to be paying him non-rookie contract money.  Someone will overpay him (looking at you Jacksonville)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

The Bills are creating space to take care of draft choices and in season needs for roster slots.  The current Sportrac numbers suggest the Bills have about $6MM in cap space which is about what they want to carry into the season typically.   What I am actually seeing right now suggests that one of the two following may occur:

 

• Beasley may not be gone this year if nobody takes him via trade
• The Bills release Beasley and sign another player - my guess would be a CB.

 

TBH, I'm not sure the Bills are worried about signing draft choices at this moment. 

It was posted yesterday that they're working to restructure Milano to minimal salary as well, but Spotrac doesn't have that yet.

 

Spotrac shows us as having $8.35 currently including the Hyde restructure

Milano will give us another $4M if that's truly in the works (maybe more if they take it out as far as they took Hyde).

So $12M cap

 

No rumor about Saffold contract except that it's 1 year with a void.  Prior to being released, his contract was $11M AAV.

McKissic is reported as a 2 year, $7M deal but we don't have details yet and agents are all over the place in how deals are reported.

Daquon Jones is reported as 2, $14 million contract, with $10.6 million guaranteed

 

Depending upon how all these are structured and the details (many an inital report of AAV leads to much lower cap hit), it's entirely possible that the ~$12M we're freeing up to restructure, are just to cover our signings.

 

If I were guessing, after FA and the draft, Beane will work to extend Stefon Diggs in a way that lowers his $18M cap hit this season, but Jacksonville is doing us no favors there.

 

As always happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, MAJBobby said:

I think it is closer to 4.

 

1st round pick 2.6M (will hit)

2nd round pick 1.1M (will hit) 

3rd round pick 960K (might hit)

4th round pick 900K (likely wont)

 

 

That's what I was figuring

[CountDorkula]

2 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

TBH, I'm not sure the Bills are worried about signing draft choices at this moment. 

It was posted yesterday that they're working to restructure Milano to minimal salary as well, but Spotrac doesn't have that yet.

 

Spotrac shows us as having $8.35 currently including the Hyde restructure

Milano will give us another $4M if that's truly in the works (maybe more if they take it out as far as they took Hyde).

So $12M cap

 

No rumor about Saffold contract except that it's 1 year with a void.  Prior to being released, his contract was $11M AAV.

McKissic is reported as a 2 year, $7M deal but we don't have details yet and agents are all over the place in how deals are reported.

Daquon Jones is reported as 2, $14 million contract, with $10.6 million guaranteed

 

Depending upon how all these are structured and the details (many an inital report of AAV leads to much lower cap hit), it's entirely possible that the ~$12M we're freeing up to restructure, are just to cover our signings.

 

If I were guessing, after FA and the draft, Beane will work to extend Stefon Diggs in a way that lowers his $18M cap hit this season, but Jacksonville is doing us no favors there.

 

As always happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.

 

From a couple of "Insiders" on twitter, Agents are pointing to the Jax Deals as comparable for their clients and Team reps are telling them to pound sand as they should.

[BrooklynBills]

52 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

As far as I understand it any re-signing will not help with those void years.

 

I think any contract can be restructured. Hyde still has 1 "regular" year remaining after this one.  They can simply extend his contract into the future tearing up those "void" years.  It's only locked in if they intend to simply let the contract run out after the 2023 season.

 

I think.

[ColoradoBills]

The little bit of restructuring that Beane is doing will not hurt anything future wise.  I expect some more.

 

One thing I have noticed is just about ALL TEAMS are using "restructure" this year.  I expect that in the NFL GM world

they all got a much better idea than us what the cap is going up to in the next 2 years.

 

Just a comment about teams like the Saints.  Adding too many void years over and over doesn't kick the can down to one future date.

What I mean is they pay for their actions every year.

Last year the Saints had $50M in Dead Cap.  That's $50M they couldn't spend on players.

This year after the dust settles it will be over $30M.  Dead money is the "interest" paid for these moves.

The "bottom line" cap number (plus or minus) can easily be managed but you do end up with a lot less of total money for contracts.

This is not a negotiable opinion, it's a fact.  Saints are the King of Dead Money and IMO Beane will not get into that mode.

 

[DCofNC]

3 hours ago, MAJBobby said:

A

Allens contract wont be touched this year IMO

Yeah, can’t see it for this year either, you want to have that in your back pocket.  I could see them doing something as soon as his new contract really hits, which would “lower” his salary and keep spreading the cap hit down the line if the window to win is open.  Then you are going to extend him anyway after the 6 years so you can add more years and play some more.

[ganesh]

3 hours ago, ChanticleerBillsFan said:

This cap stuff is confusing. All I know is bring us more players! 

and cap hell in a. few years when we have to cut these players.   We better win the SB in the next year or two.  After that we will be rebuilding again around Allen.

[Rocky Landing]

Are we trading for a corner? Looks like most of the high dollar FAs we might have been interested in are going elsewhere. But, Beane has been working tirelessly to free up cap space.

[ArtVandalay]

Cap is crap... these contracts are play doh... easy move free up space. 

 

 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]