Maybe the Fix has been in.

[Thurman#1]

6 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been started.

     We all have heard the allegations that Miami’s owner Ross was offering Flores $100k a loss to tank.

     The NFL should not be in bed with Casinos or online betting sites such as Fan duel. It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests. I didn’t research the numbers but it must be in the hundreds of millions in advertising revenue. 
     Then there is the fact that a group of 32 billionaires refuse to employ professional referees. If you own 1 billion you are filthy rich. And yet, the league has refused to hire these guys on full time. It isn’t a money issue. That makes zero sense.

     If Ross was willing to proposition his coach to lose ( I get that the proof isn’t there but tell me it doesn’t sound plausible) why wouldn’t he or other powers that be not be willing to slip a few shekels to a dirty ref or three?

      I’m not say it happened. But, there is a saying a teacher of mine had: “ It doesn’t just have to be right, it has to look right.”

      There have been multiple threads on here over the years talking about the fix being in. Many on here poopoo it because it seems insane.

     Which brings me to my final point:

     What would it look like if you were going to throw a game from a coaching perspective?

      Run a bunch of low percentage plays and punt while shackling your best player(s)?  Make absolutely befuddling and egregious decisions that are completely indefensible?

     I haven’t personally believed that the fix was in in a conspiracy level way  in the past. I’m not saying I do now. But, for the first time the dots are starting to connect themselves and picture coming together isn’t a pretty or even palatable one.

 

Flame away Ladies and Gentlemen 

 

 

It hasn't. The idea is nuts, seriously nuts.

 

It's not a mistake that if Ross said this (I agree that it sounds plausible to me) that his coach turned him down. It's directly against the career interests of the coaches and players. Nobody can fire Ross, unless this becomes so believable the other owners get together and force him out).

 

Whereas for players and coaches, being fired is by far the likeliest outcome, and you're judged by your film and your results.

 

Could a gambler pay off a ref? Sure, it could happen in any sport. But the NFL do it? No. It just doesn't make any sense. Refs are also judged by their tape. And these things tend to come out, and jobs are lost with even the suspicion. It's directly against the NFL's interests to take the slightest risk to the golden multi-billion dollar apparently immortal goose for a shot at a smaller payday with a decent chance of killing that goose.

[Buffalo Boy]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It hasn't. The idea is nuts, seriously nuts.

 

It's not a mistake that if Ross said this (I agree that it sounds plausible to me) that his coach turned him down. It's directly against the career interests of the coaches and players. Nobody can fire Ross, unless this becomes so believable the other owners get together and force him out).

 

Whereas for players and coaches, being fired is by far the likeliest outcome, and you're judged by your film and your results.

 

Could a gambler pay off a ref? Sure, it could happen in any sport. But the NFL do it? No. It just doesn't make any sense. Refs are also judged by their tape. And these things tend to come out, and jobs are lost with even the suspicion. It's directly against the NFL's interests to take the slightest risk to the golden multi-billion dollar apparently immortal goose for a shot at a smaller payday with a decent chance of killing that goose.

“It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests”

It Looks Bad 

When it looks bad people start to lose faith

When people start to lose faith and a coach does something egregiously stupid……..13 seconds……. Some people will start to believe it was on purpose.

The NFL should not be in bed with gambling!!!! 

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, KzooMike said:

Give me an example of something I can't manipulate if I have enough money? The only thing that would ever stop such a thing would be individual morality. It wouldn't be motive or ability. That goes for just about everything.

 

 

Yes, morality, but that's far from the only thing. Understanding of your best interest would stop it. Good business sense would stop it. Having a clue would stop it. For the league, anyway. Motive absolutely would stand in the way, unless you've got a person who's in some way completely cracked. And again, that's not the league. They're making oceans of cash from the system, risking those oceans of cash will absolutely be balanced against the short-term benefits. They're motivated, alright. To make sure things continue as they are.

 

Yes, individuals who aren't receiving money from the golden goose might be motivated. But not the league.

 

 

[Best Williams Available]

5 hours ago, stuvian said:

The Eagles tanked in Doug Pederson's last year under the guise of showcasing Jalen Hurts. If a team has a choice between having a six win season or a three win season and drafting the next great QB they will take the latter. No one tells billionaires what to do. I don't blame Flores or any other coach for refusing to play along because doing so destroys your integrity as a coach. 

And your chances of winning, which gets you better jobs. Flores is right to call this out because the request only benefits the owner, and not the coach or team, in fact it’s detrimental to both.

[Thurman#1]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

“It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests”

It Looks Bad 

When it looks bad people start to lose faith

When people start to lose faith and a coach does something egregiously stupid……..13 seconds……. Some people will start to believe it was on purpose.

The NFL should not be in bed with gambling!!!! 

 

 

Oh, if your argument is that the NFL shouldn't be in bed with gambling, I'd say that's fair enough.

 

But your argument that when it looks bad people start to lose faith, I would question.

 

The strong human urge to find a conspiracy where there ain't one so they can feel sophisticated and in the know means there are constant waves of people losing faith even when things don't look bad.

 

As for coaches doing something stupid ... does it cause people to doubt? Sure. Again, people love to believe in conspiracies. Has there ever been a game in the history of the NFL, or organized sports really, where a coach didn't do something sub-par? No. They're humans. Humans aren't perfect. They operate with logical flaws (see Kahnemann and Tversky if you have the slightest doubt on this. They got a Nobel showing how humans consistently work with bad assumptions and biases). And that's not even looking at panic, at the effect of hormones and so on) and expecting anyone to consistently maximize their chances under pressure is simply unreasonable. People make mistakes. Every day. You can't eliminate them. You have to try to minimize them, but even the most successful and the smartest will make mistakes.

 

And one of those biases is that conspiracies are behind everything.

 

Look how many 9/11 truthers and Sandy Hook truthers and folks that find the Illuminati behind everything there are.

 

Look at Joe Rogan. He's a smart guy but he simply loves the idea of conspiracies and will twist himself into logical pretzels to allow himself to believe in them and to believe that he knows better than mainstream science. Look at the Atlantis nuts and the archeology crazies he invites on.

 

People will believe nutsy stuff whether it makes sense or not.

 

People will believe anything. They'll believe that a human being making a mistake proves a conspiracy when actually a human being making a mistake proves he's a human being.

[716er]

More of a chance an immoral coach figures out a way to bank on in game parlays over losing a game on purpose IMO.

 

As to the Ross allegations, an impartial investigation needs to play out. Fat chance.

[BigAl2526]

If Ross tried to bribe Flores to lose games as Flores alleges, I think it has less to do with gambling than Ross's desire for the #1 overall draft pick that year.   I've heard plenty of Bills fans in hears past, when the Bills were bad, advocate losing for a better draft position.   That doesn't make it right, but I think it's separate issue from the whole gambling thing.

[Thurman#1]

5 hours ago, stuvian said:

The Eagles tanked in Doug Pederson's last year under the guise of showcasing Jalen Hurts. If a team has a choice between having a six win season or a three win season and drafting the next great QB they will take the latter. No one tells billionaires what to do. I don't blame Flores or any other coach for refusing to play along because doing so destroys your integrity as a coach. 

 

 

Oh, please. That makes no sense.

 

After you're eliminated from the playoffs, playing young guys to learn more about their capabilities for the next year isn't tanking.

 

Wentz went 3-8-1 that year. Having a QB who sucks in your system and circumstances isn't tanking. Nor is yanking that guy at that point to give someone else a shot. Not even close.

 

Don't you see that saying, "No one tells billionaires what to do," and that you "don't blame Flores or any other coach for refusing to play along," is contradicting yourself on the very same line?

 

No one tells billionaires what to do? Flores appears to have done just that. And now there's a chance Ross will be separated from his cash cow. Wade Phillips did just that to Ralph, in a local example, accepting that it might get him fired. There are plenty more examples. If you tell a billionaire what to do, you might have unpleasant consequences, but plenty of times that's still in your best interests even if you completely leave morality and integrity out of it.

 

 

 

24 minutes ago, RunJoshRun said:

And remember - the NFL is classified as "ENTERTAINMENT"

 

 

It's also classed as business. And will become a much less successful one if people stop believing in the essential purity of the product. Not that it's perfectly pure, but that basically the outcomes are not manipulated.

 

Lose that the people will go elsewhere for what they classify as entertainment.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Boy said:

“It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests”

It Looks Bad 

When it looks bad people start to lose faith

When people start to lose faith and a coach does something egregiously stupid……..13 seconds……. Some people will start to believe it was on purpose.

The NFL should not be in bed with gambling!!!! 

 

This thread has unleashed an avalanche of righteous scorn.  

 

 

No one cares--in fact fans love the legal gambling.  Move on.  

Edited February 3, 2022 by Mr. WEO

[bobobonators]

I see. Now 13 seconds makes sense! Check Sean’s bank account. 

[bobobonators]

28 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

This thread has unleashed an avalanche of righteous scorn.  

 

 

No one cares--in fact fans love the legal gambling.  Move on.  

I dont understand how some people act like gambling on games never occurred before? Like Fanduel is somehow now to blame. Or Vegas hasnt existed for - basically - ever. Like the Romans werent gambling on gladiators. 
 

If someone is willing to take a $200k bribe to “throw a game” does anyone think that same person cares whether or not the NFL has finally partnered with Fanduel? That 200k bribe could have just as easily been offered and taken 60yrs, 70, 80 yrs ago bc we have this thing called..wait for it….wait for it…….. WAIT FOR IT:  MONEY. This thing we call money has existed since football was invented. Theres this other thing called briefcases where money can be placed. Another thing called telephones allow these conversations to occur. And so far ive only scratched the surface of this revolutionary 1950s/1960s era technology. Wait until we get into wire transfers. 

 

All kidding aside..
The legalization of sports gambling brings regulation and taxation into the fold. One can easily argue that this synergy, between the gambling industry, states legalizing it and the NFL only makes it HARDER for this kind of stuff to occur. 
 

People need to remind themselves of a couple of simple things when it comes to sports and gambling:

1. The opportunity to cheat will always be present

2. Betting will always occur, regardless of legality. 
 

Now i hope you can all sleep soundly at night without the tinfoil on your pillows. 

[Mikie2times]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Yes, morality, but that's far from the only thing. Understanding of your best interest would stop it. Good business sense would stop it. Having a clue would stop it. For the league, anyway. Motive absolutely would stand in the way, unless you've got a person who's in some way completely cracked. And again, that's not the league. They're making oceans of cash from the system, risking those oceans of cash will absolutely be balanced against the short-term benefits. They're motivated, alright. To make sure things continue as they are.

 

Yes, individuals who aren't receiving money from the golden goose might be motivated. But not the league.

 

 

I don't buy much into the theory that this is in fact occurring, but my point was it is certainly not outside the realm of possibility for it to occur. I wasn't suggesting at the hands of the league, no motive, but the owners? Entirely possible.  Is the notion that a Billionaire who owns a team and wishes to see them lose, then takes actions to ensure that occurs using some form of compensation that crazy? Plenty of billionaires don't believe they need to follow rules, I could easily see them throwing out common sense, business sense, the greater good, and everything else just saying, this my "F'in" team. I get to decide how this goes. 

 

In any event, soccer refs have already been caught taking bribes from the mob fairly recently. My statements true if motive exists, I don't see any league based motive, but individual or team motive? Sure.  

Edited February 3, 2022 by KzooMike

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, bobobonators said:

I see. Now 13 seconds makes sense! Check Sean’s bank account. 

Not to mention it saved Leslie the effort to interview. 

[Governor]

9 hours ago, Buffalo Boy said:

     I’m surprised this thread hasn’t been started.

     We all have heard the allegations that Miami’s owner Ross was offering Flores $100k a loss to tank.

     The NFL should not be in bed with Casinos or online betting sites such as Fan duel. It immediately causes a bad look due to the appearance of conflicting interests. I didn’t research the numbers but it must be in the hundreds of millions in advertising revenue. 
     Then there is the fact that a group of 32 billionaires refuse to employ professional referees. If you own 1 billion you are filthy rich. And yet, the league has refused to hire these guys on full time. It isn’t a money issue. That makes zero sense.

     If Ross was willing to proposition his coach to lose ( I get that the proof isn’t there but tell me it doesn’t sound plausible) why wouldn’t he or other powers that be not be willing to slip a few shekels to a dirty ref or three?

      I’m not say it happened. But, there is a saying a teacher of mine had: “ It doesn’t just have to be right, it has to look right.”

      There have been multiple threads on here over the years talking about the fix being in. Many on here poopoo it because it seems insane.

     Which brings me to my final point:

     What would it look like if you were going to throw a game from a coaching perspective?

      Run a bunch of low percentage plays and punt while shackling your best player(s)?  Make absolutely befuddling and egregious decisions that are completely indefensible?

     I haven’t personally believed that the fix was in in a conspiracy level way  in the past. I’m not saying I do now. But, for the first time the dots are starting to connect themselves and picture coming together isn’t a pretty or even palatable one.

 

Flame away Ladies and Gentlemen 

I haven’t really followed the details of the gambling but it’s always been known that gambling, lottery, etc. disproportionately hurts lower class Americans the most, therefore at the very least government should take portions of that money for education(like the lottery)and it should be taxed to bejesus to deter the obvious unethical behavior.

[clayboy54]

11 hours ago, RunJoshRun said:

And remember - the NFL is classified as "ENTERTAINMENT"

That makes it legal, but it doesn't make it ethical.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

24 minutes ago, clayboy54 said:

That makes it legal, but it doesn't make it ethical.

Then it's decided.

Goodell out.

Vince McMahon in.

😁

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[papazoid]

The NFL is  dominating TV ratings with 48 of the top 50 most watched telecasts in 2021.

 

PARITY is good for business

 

the reverse order of the draft significantly  helps parity

 

tanking is a poor choice of words. once a team is eliminated from the playoffs, what is wrong with playing your backups and preparing to help your cause  for the next season. in other words, not playing your perceived best players this season in order to give others a chance to shine. i have no problem with this.

 

gm's & owners incentivizing losses must and will be stopped via fines and loss of draft picks.

 

the chances of players and/or coaches tanking is near zero

 

 

[major]

18 hours ago, dma0034 said:

So the league manipulates outcomes for what end? If you think that an owner like Jerry Jones is okay with his team losing for 2 decades because it's part of a greater plan then you are crazy. 

I don’t think Jerry would be a owner that would ever do that. But you look around the league and you can find some other owners that would purposely tank for draft picks. Heads are about to roll in the nfl 

Edited February 3, 2022 by major

[Greg S]

25 minutes ago, papazoid said:

The NFL is  dominating TV ratings with 48 of the top 50 most watched telecasts in 2021.

 

PARITY is good for business

 

the reverse order of the draft significantly  helps parity

 

tanking is a poor choice of words. once a team is eliminated from the playoffs, what is wrong with playing your backups and preparing to help your cause  for the next season. in other words, not playing your perceived best players this season in order to give others a chance to shine. i have no problem with this.

 

gm's & owners incentivizing losses must and will be stopped via fines and loss of draft picks.

 

the chances of players and/or coaches tanking is near zero

 

 

 

You think the NFL would ever have a draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs like the NHL does? 

[major]

6 minutes ago, major said:

I don’t think Jerry would be a owner that would ever do that. But you look around the league and you can find some other owners that would purposely tank for draft picks. Heads are about to roll in the nfl 

For example, Hue Jackson just came out accusing browns owner of same thing and appears to have documentation of it. Some owners and a commish are about to go bye bye 

[papazoid]

15 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

You think the NFL would ever have a draft lottery for teams that miss the playoffs like the NHL does? 

 

i hope not....i don't like it.....the sabres got screwed ....losing out on conor mcdavid comes to mind

 

 the advantages of true parity outweigh the disadvantages of trying to discourage tanking via a draft lottery

 

does a draft lottery really stop tanking ??...i say hell no....anyone so inclined can reason they still have a better chance at the top pick

 

would we want this years colts or chargers getting the #1 overall pick via lottery ??....i don't

19 minutes ago, major said:

For example, Hue Jackson just came out accusing browns owner of same thing and appears to have documentation of it. Some owners and a commish are about to go bye bye 

 

we shall see.....all the upper management got bonuses.......

 

hue says for intentionaly losing

 

owner says for doing a good job under extenuating circumstances

 

good luck proving hue's take

 

that would require a GM to commit professional suicide

all hue has are receipts he got a bonus....i doubt they say for losing

[Mr. WEO]

11 hours ago, bobobonators said:

I dont understand how some people act like gambling on games never occurred before? Like Fanduel is somehow now to blame. Or Vegas hasnt existed for - basically - ever. Like the Romans werent gambling on gladiators. 
 

If someone is willing to take a $200k bribe to “throw a game” does anyone think that same person cares whether or not the NFL has finally partnered with Fanduel? That 200k bribe could have just as easily been offered and taken 60yrs, 70, 80 yrs ago bc we have this thing called..wait for it….wait for it…….. WAIT FOR IT:  MONEY. This thing we call money has existed since football was invented. Theres this other thing called briefcases where money can be placed. Another thing called telephones allow these conversations to occur. And so far ive only scratched the surface of this revolutionary 1950s/1960s era technology. Wait until we get into wire transfers. 

 

All kidding aside..
The legalization of sports gambling brings regulation and taxation into the fold. One can easily argue that this synergy, between the gambling industry, states legalizing it and the NFL only makes it HARDER for this kind of stuff to occur. 
 

People need to remind themselves of a couple of simple things when it comes to sports and gambling:

1. The opportunity to cheat will always be present

2. Betting will always occur, regardless of legality. 
 

Now i hope you can all sleep soundly at night without the tinfoil on your pillows. 

 

 

stop making sense.  People need their delusions clutched close to their pearls.

45 minutes ago, major said:

I don’t think Jerry would be a owner that would ever do that. But you look around the league and you can find some other owners that would purposely tank for draft picks. Heads are about to roll in the nfl 

 

 

owners can't "tank"

[RiotAct]

19 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Improper game specific scheming and intentionally poor play calling at critical moments would be the easiest ways to throw a game unless you include paying off a player to do so.  A critical INT, fumble, missed kick, blown coverage, etc. would do the trick in most games. 

kind of like… McDermott and Frazier in the last 13 seconds of regulation in the Divisional Round!

 

DUN DUN DUNNNNNNN

[major]

9 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

stop making sense.  People need their delusions clutched close to their pearls.

 

 

owners can't "tank"

Owners can certainly tank. They have the ability to take away your job (coaches, players) if you don’t play ball, so to speak 

[KHAN]

19 hours ago, BarleyNY said:

Improper game specific scheming and intentionally poor play calling at critical moments would be the easiest ways to throw a game unless you include paying off a player to do so.  A critical INT, fumble, missed kick, blown coverage, etc. would do the trick in most games. 

Why did "13 seconds" just pop into my mind?

[Nextmanup]

59 minutes ago, major said:

Owners can certainly tank. They have the ability to take away your job (coaches, players) if you don’t play ball, so to speak 

Not only can owners tank, owners are the ones who initiate the tanking, obviously.

 

From them it goes to the GM, and usually STOPS THERE.

The GM builds a team and coach that, despite trying its best in competitive games, loses a lot.

That's how tanking has always worked, and it's what makes this situation with the Dolphins VERY different...

 

The moment you bring the coach into it, it's different.  You now have a team not trying its best to win games.

 

Whether he is offered money or not, to me, is immaterial.

 

As long as the coach is in on the fix or aware of the fix, you have a huge problem.

 

 

1 hour ago, major said:

For example, Hue Jackson just came out accusing browns owner of same thing and appears to have documentation of it. Some owners and a commish are about to go bye bye 

The franchise owners who make up the NFL will do whatever they have to, including selling their first born sons into slavery, to get the "integrity" of the game back again.

 

And yes, I would think that would mean a commissioner change (very possibly) and there is no way any owner involved in this sort of thing (effectively bribing his own coach to lose) is going to still own a franchise when the smoke clears.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, major said:

Owners can certainly tank. They have the ability to take away your job (coaches, players) if you don’t play ball, so to speak 

 

and then what?   Bad teams fires it's coaches all the time.  a better or worse coach takes his place.  

 

Although one can certainly make the argument that by  keeping Hue Jackson, Haslam was openly tanking every year for a while there.

[major]

Again, this is all coming down because Bill Belicheat doesn’t check his contact before texting. So fitting that shady B brings down the house because of technology 

[Nextmanup]

46 minutes ago, major said:

Again, this is all coming down because Bill Belicheat doesn’t check his contact before texting. So fitting that shady B brings down the house because of technology 

Also fitting that a guy whose reputation is built around being the smartest guy in the room creates this controversy because he sent a text message to the wrong guy.

 

As though he's not quite sure how to work a cell phone.

 

 

[papazoid]

a slight stretch....but,couldn't an arguement be made that a draft lottery actually enables/encourages more teams to tank ?

 

normally only a couple teams are in the running for dead last....with a draft lottery 10-15 teams could improve their chances for a shot at #1

[TBBills]

Tanking don't matter in the NFL if you don't get the right players... Browns taking and grabbing multiple bad QBs with the latest being Baker Mayfield.

 

Or doesn't work if you don't have the right front office people... Jags tanked for Trevor and had just as bad a season b.c of the HC.

[harryS]

On 2/2/2022 at 1:50 PM, Buffalo Boy said:

   

     What would it look like if you were going to throw a game from a coaching perspective?

      Run a bunch of low percentage plays and punt while shackling your best player(s)?  Make absolutely befuddling and egregious decisions that are completely indefensible?

 

Ha!  I get what you're insinuating but frankly, McDermott would be dead on a slab somewhere by now because his benefactor would be worried that McD made it too obvious the fix was in.  Ironically, the grosser the incompetence, the more likely it's just incompetence and not malfeasance because cheaters are mindful to "make it look good".  McD was too stupid to have been fixing.

[JakeFrommStateFarm]

Hue Jackson is now saying he was offered money to tank games.

 

Brian Flores scandal: Hue Jackson says he was offered money to tank
https://nypost.com/2022/02/02/brian-flores-scandal-hue-jackson-says-he-was-offered-money-to-tank/

 

[JDubya76]

On 2/2/2022 at 3:07 PM, billsfan1959 said:

 

Shekels? So who are you saying is behind the conspiracy?

The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually in a secret country mansion in Colorado known as The Meadows……The Queen, the Vatican, the Gettys, the Rothschilds...and Colonel Sanders before he went teets up!

Ooh I hated the Colonel, with his wee beady eyes and that smug look on his face! Ohh you're gonna buy my chicken! Ooh!

Edited February 4, 2022 by JDubya76

[SirAndrew]

I expect the tanking stuff to proven “false” regardless of the truth. The league and owners will never let that out. It’ll be handled in house. 

[Buffalo Boy]

5 hours ago, harryS said:

 

Ha!  I get what you're insinuating but frankly, McDermott would be dead on a slab somewhere by now because his benefactor would be worried that McD made it too obvious the fix was in.  Ironically, the grosser the incompetence, the more likely it's just incompetence and not malfeasance because cheaters are mindful to "make it look good".  McD was too stupid to have been fixing.

I agree. I think it was just stupidity. However, that’s the problem when you allow doubt to creep in

[Alphadawg7]

Geezus.

 

When does the season begin again?

[ComradeKayAdams]

Super Bowl 56 does seem scripted to me: Tinseltown’s team moves back. They need to win over the fickle fans. Their new stadium opens up. They make it back to the Super Bowl for the first year that their stadium hosts it. Their adversary is a young Cinderella upstart team whose quarterback is played by Macaulay Culkin. Yeah right. All of us pro football fans are living in some type of Truman Show.

[papazoid]

wait.....wasnt the "fix in" for bradys recent team TB  playing his previous team NE ??

 

hard keeping track of all the conspiracies