Brandon Beane Season Ending Presser Weds 1/27

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Georgia Bill said:

Isn't it true that if we had won the Jax or Pittsburgh games, we'd have been playing KC in Buffalo instead?  Just that shift in venue could have given us the tiny edge we needed.  We are so close to KC, I don't think it would be wise to over-react and start ditching coaches or tearing up the roster.   With that said, last year prior to the Super Bowl most were saying no one could slow down KC's offense.  Then the Bucs did with a great defense.  They seemed to have an answer for Kelce in particular.  Why can't we get there?  

 

I don't think Beane is gonna be tearing up the roster for no good reason.

 

But he's going to have to either re-sign, or draft/sign replacements for a lot of the roster.  This may help define the problem.  I bolded the FA:

 

Offense

WR Emmanuel Sanders Gabriel Davis

LT Dion Dawkins Spencer Brown

LG Ryan Bates Jon Feliciano Ike Boettger

C Mitch Morse Ryan Bates

RG Daryl Williams Cody Ford

RT Spencer Brown Tommy Doyle

TE Dawson Knox Tommy Sweeney

QB Josh Allen Mitchell Trubisky

RB Devin Singletary Zack Moss Matt Breida Taiwan Jones

FB Reggie Gilliam

WR Cole Beasley Isaiah McKenzie (ST KR)

WR Stefon Diggs Jake Kumerow (?ST Gunner)

 

LDE Greg Rousseau A.J. Epenesa Efe Obada

DT Ed Oliver Vernon Butler

DT Star Lotulelei Harrison Phillips Justin Zimmer

RDE Jerry Hughes Mario Addison Boogie Basham

MLB Tremaine Edmunds Tyrel Dodson Tyler Matakevich

WLB Matt Milano A.J. Klein Andre Smith

NCB Taron Johnson Siran Neal (ST Gunner)

CB Tre'Davious White  Dane Jackson

CB Levi Wallace Dane Jackson

S Jordan Poyer  Damar Hamlin

S Micah Hyde  Jaquan Johnson

 

Going from the bottom to the top:

CB: Need to re-sign or replace Wallace, and for the start of the year need to replace Tre White who is likely to be PUP/IR through training camp

       We were also very thin, as shown by a depth chart where the backup to both CB positions was playing 

Need: 2 players  (at least 1 starter)

LB: Like it or don't, I think we're set. 

DT: Pretty sure Beane wants both Phillips and Zimmer back, plus an additional player.  Phillips had taken over as starter for Lotulelei.

Need: 3 players (at least 1 starter)

DE: Need at least 1 player.  IMHO need an upgrade, badly.

Overall on defense:  Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 6 players, at least 3 starters

 

LG/backup: Need to re-sign or replace Bates and Boettger (1 starter)

C : if there's truth to the rumors Morse will retire, need a true starting-quality C (1 starter)

T: may need an upgrade to Doyle as ST, unclear

QB: need a backup QB

WR: need a replacement to Isaiah if we let him walk - that fast guy who can do all the gadget plays, block as well as anyone in the league on a per-pound basis, and run routes

Overall on offense: Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 2 starters and 3 backups

 

ST:

KR/PR and potentially replacements for 2 gunners (Neal and Jones)

Punter: 'cuz Beane didn't sound happy!

 

HTH

 

 

[MWK]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't think Beane is gonna be tearing up the roster for no good reason.

 

But he's going to have to either re-sign, or draft/sign replacements for a lot of the roster.  This may help define the problem.  I bolded the FA:

 

Offense

WR Emmanuel Sanders Gabriel Davis

LT Dion Dawkins Spencer Brown

LG Ryan Bates Jon Feliciano Ike Boettger

C Mitch Morse Ryan Bates

RG Daryl Williams Cody Ford

RT Spencer Brown Tommy Doyle

TE Dawson Knox Tommy Sweeney

QB Josh Allen Mitchell Trubisky

RB Devin Singletary Zack Moss Matt Breida Taiwan Jones

FB Reggie Gilliam

WR Cole Beasley Isaiah McKenzie (ST KR)

WR Stefon Diggs Jake Kumerow (?ST Gunner)

 

LDE Greg Rousseau A.J. Epenesa Efe Obada

DT Ed Oliver Vernon Butler

DT Star Lotulelei Harrison Phillips Justin Zimmer

RDE Jerry Hughes Mario Addison Boogie Basham

MLB Tremaine Edmunds Tyrel Dodson Tyler Matakevich

WLB Matt Milano A.J. Klein Andre Smith

NCB Taron Johnson Siran Neal (ST Gunner)

CB Tre'Davious White  Dane Jackson

CB Levi Wallace Dane Jackson

S Jordan Poyer  Damar Hamlin

S Micah Hyde  Jaquan Johnson

 

Going from the bottom to the top:

CB: Need to re-sign or replace Wallace, and for the start of the year need to replace Tre White who is likely to be PUP/IR through training camp

       We were also very thin, as shown by a depth chart where the backup to both CB positions was playing 

Need: 2 players  (at least 1 starter)

LB: Like it or don't, I think we're set. 

DT: Pretty sure Beane wants both Phillips and Zimmer back, plus an additional player.  Phillips had taken over as starter for Lotulelei.

Need: 3 players (at least 1 starter)

DE: Need at least 1 player.  IMHO need an upgrade, badly.

Overall on defense:  Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 6 players, at least 3 starters

 

LG/backup: Need to re-sign or replace Bates and Boettger (1 starter)

C : if there's truth to the rumors Morse will retire, need a true starting-quality C (1 starter)

T: may need an upgrade to Doyle as ST, unclear

QB: need a backup QB

WR: need a replacement to Isaiah if we let him walk - that fast guy who can do all the gadget plays, block as well as anyone in the league on a per-pound basis, and run routes

Overall on offense: Need to draft, re-sign, or sign 2 starters and 3 backups

 

ST:

KR/PR and potentially replacements for 2 gunners (Neal and Jones)

Punter: 'cuz Beane didn't sound happy!

 

HTH

 

 

So we just keep underachievers who are overpaid like Klein and Feliciano? In the name of “continuity”? Look how that continuity worked out this year. We have to cut some, otherwise we will just be doomed to repeat this season. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by MWK

[Hapless Bills Fan]

5 minutes ago, MWK said:

So we just keep underachievers who are overpaid like Klein and Feliciano? We have to cut some, otherwise we will just be doomed to repeat this season

 

I'm not going into roster decisions here.  I was just talking the minimum of players that Beane needs to re-sign, or sign/draft replacements for.

 

I would expect Beane to be busy looking for upgrades at several positions on IOL - including potentially cutting Feliciano and Ford in favor of those upgrades - but they're both under contract, so I don't expect to see them go until/unless a clear upgrade is in place.  If Morse retires and Bates becomes our starting center or if he remains our starting LG, then Feliciano becomes our backup C and an IOL who can play both sides.  I don't see how having a quality backup C/IOL "dooms us to repeat this season".   

 

Feliciano would cost $1.5M in dead money while freeing up $3.5M.  So Beane has to feel comfortable he can sign a guy who can really play center and really play both sides as G for $3.5M or less, or he's not improving the team, he's degrading it.

 

As far as "underachievers like Klein", what exactly do you think Klein's role is and what is your evidence he fails to achieve it?

[HOUSE]

Did he say anything about beer prices for the 2022 season ?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Did he say anything about beer prices for the 2022 season ?

 

He did not, but Spencer Brown drank one that wound up costing him $5,000.

 

I believe ordinary ticketholders can anticipate to pay less.

 

18 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

I meant consistent failure going forward of not winning a SB because they have consistently erred on the side of caution with the cap…. They sat on their hands with a ton of available pass rushers available last off season opting for the ex Panther and a pair of rookies, the one big move they’ve made was Diggs…. They need a couple more playmakers on both sides of the ball, and I wish they would take more of a big splash risk in FA then they have to this point considering the only player they should be concerned with resigning at this point is Oliver going forward. 

 

I don't agree with this at all.  See post above.

 

 

[MWK]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I'm not going into roster decisions here.  I was just talking the minimum of players that Beane needs to re-sign, or sign/draft replacements for.

 

I would expect Beane to be busy looking for upgrades at several positions on IOL - including potentially cutting Feliciano and Ford in favor of those upgrades - but they're both under contract, so I don't expect to see them go until/unless a clear upgrade is in place.  If Morse retires and Bates becomes our starting center or if he remains our starting LG, then Feliciano becomes our backup C and an IOL who can play both sides.  I don't see how having a quality backup C/IOL "dooms us to repeat this season".   

 

Feliciano would cost $1.5M in dead money while freeing up $3.5M.  So Beane has to feel comfortable he can sign a guy who can really play center and really play both sides as G for $3.5M or less, or he's not improving the team, he's degrading it.

 

As far as "underachievers like Klein", what exactly do you think Klein's role is and what is your evidence he fails to achieve it?

There is nothing quality about Jon Feliciano. He is a below average player who is seen as being good by a small number of Bills fans who think he is tough. Saving 3.5 million on a guy who was benched is a no brainer. And for the price he is paid, Klein isn’t worth it. Why should we pay 6 million for a guy who barely plays? 

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Didn’t you suggest the Bills draft Jordan Davis to bulk up the pass rush?…. Yea, he will be a huge help when Patrick Mahomes is running out of the pocket. 😅 Dude would’ve died on Sunday night. 

Well I certainly wouldn’t expect a bigger DT to run down a faster QB out of the pocket.

Do you think the the Bucs expect Vita Vea to chase down athletic QB’s outside of the pocket?

 

How I think he can help the pass rush is because he would free up Ed Oliver getting more one on ones.  Right now, Ed Oliver is double teamed almost as much as Aaron Donald.

 

But no, keep thinking I want a 340 lbs DT to chase down QB’s out of the pocket.

[Bob Chandler's Hands]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Obviously you have to get it right… but suggesting it doesn’t work is false. Chiefs and Rams being prime examples. Hell the Rams have sacrificed their draft to be where they are right now…. Rather McBeane be a little risky and bring home a SB then consistently “stay the course” and consistently fail. 

 

2 hours ago, Mango said:

Technically you’re correct but that’s misleading. Your original post was along the lines of “spent a $100M on a handful of starters and get shredded by Josh”. OK. Sure. They won. And they were one of the very best defenses in the league through the back half of the season.

 

We have $2M in space and 53 on the roster after signing a million players to futures.  But we’re talking about how to get a new starting CB, DT, DE, LB, OG and slot receiver with that money. We might lose our starting center to retirement or cap causalty. While totally unsure if we can keep some of our top DE, DT, CB, and slot wide receivers. Meanwhile KC has more space and is pretty locked in at their starting front 7, OL, WR, and TE. 
 

KC seems like they are in a spot to sign a lot of depth players for cheap, because that’s where most of their needs are. Buffalo is trying upgrade like 7 starting positions with $2M. 

 

Guys, I was just pointing out you can't compare 53 players under contract to 38 players under contract and consider the cap space left an apples-to-apples comparison. I wasn't wading in to quality of roster or roster building strategy or anything else. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, MWK said:

There is nothing quality about Jon Feliciano. He is a below average player who is seen as being good by a small number of Bills fans who think he is tough. Saving 3.5 million on a guy who was benched is a no brainer.

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

Just now, MWK said:

And for the price he is paid, Klein isn’t worth it. Why should we pay 6 million for a guy who barely plays? 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

[MWK]

3 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

 

Not saying that we should be able to get an above average player for 3.5 million. I’m saying that Feliciano is a replacement level player who could be replaced easily with a rookie or minimum salary player. Very poor use of our resources. He was benched for a reason. Just because McDermott thinks he’s a nice guy doesn’t change that fact. 

 

As for Klein, it’s again a poor use of resources. A guy who plays such a small percentage of defensive snaps doesn’t need a 6 million dollar salary. He’s also not exactly an impact player. The only guy we have who is more of a liability in coverage is Edmunds.  We could draft a rookie or sign a guy for cheap to fill his role. As far as special teams goes, those players grow on trees, contrary to the belief of our personnel department who likes to pay them big money.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

12 hours ago, cage said:

 

I hope that reporters are preparing their questions.  Do not just ask "What happened in the last 13 seconds".  Set the context:

 

Brandon, the QB that you drafted, that fans have been waiting 25 years for and you signed to a $40m+ per year extension just lived up to everyones imagination and put on an all-world performance.  You got knocked from the playoffs for the 2nd straight year to the same team who may be headed to its 3rd straight SB.  The manner of the loss will live in infamy in the team's history right there with the worst losses we've absorbed.  You would have been the Super Bowl favorite from among the four teams left.  How do you evaluate what exactly happened and what has to change to fix it when you start all over again next year?

We know what happened. Epic coaching fail but Beane has no authority to do anything about. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

10 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

Frazier didn't have a good game this time against the Chiefs. 

 

Every coach and player on the team had at least one bad game this season.  Do you want to get rid of Allen for his poor performance against the Jags?

 

Frazier led the #1 defense in the NFL.   Who do you want to replace him with?  The #10 guy?  The #20 guy?   The unproven DL coach?   Who?

 

 

 

 

 

Because HOF coaches like Bill Belichick always, always win big games.

 

Like against the Bills in the playoffs this year.  

Do you really believe they were the #1 defense in the league? 

34 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

Isn't Bates the answer to your first question? He's already on the team and is a restricted FA.  Feliciano was ok. He was not terrible.  But he will be replaced with a rookie draft pick most likely.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK.  Who are the above average, proven-able-to-play-in-the-NFL centers who can also play on either side as G, who you will be able to sign for $3.5M or less?

 

 

OK.  Who are the backup LB who know McDermott's system and are versatile enough to play any LB position and also play ST well, who you can sign for less?  And what is your definition of "barely plays"?  Klein played 30% of the defensive snaps this season, and 43% of the ST snaps; but last season, when we had more injuries, he played 61% of the defensive snaps.

 

I'm not saying that we're going to keep Klein - we may not, just as we may not keep Feliciano or Ford.

 

I'm just saying that before the Armchair GM cuts all the players he doesn't like, he needs to understand what role they actually play and have a feel for what it would take to sign a suitable replacement.

Klein was worth the money and I'd be fine with him as a backup LB. You are correct he can start in a 4-3 and he can back up both positions. That said they should add at least one young linebacker in the bottom end of the draft. 

Mantekevic and Jones are guys that should be replaced with UDFA. Beane no longer has the luxury of wasting money on guys who do a 60 yard sprint as Bass kicks the ball in the endzone. 

[Scott7975]

7 hours ago, ArtVandalay said:

This is too harsh. We can go get a playmaker and still have Beasley. 

 

Brady's bread and butter in the EP offense was always sure handed guys that can get open from the slot: Troy Brown, Wes Welker, Julian Edelman... sure handed finding soft spots on the defense to keep the chains moving, it's a staple in the EP.

 

I'd like some dynamic ability as well, but that doesn't mean dump Beasley.

 

Honestly, I'd rather fill Sanders spot with a playmaker and keep Bease.

 

All those guys got YAC.  Beasley has lost a step and is getting old.  Time to move on.  We got torched with YAC.  On the flip side we got almost none.  It was all Allens arm.

7 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I don't have a problem with Beane not going out and spending big in FA, given that we have people to re-sign and such

Unless he means we're not going to re-sign our own who are FA?  There are several I feel it would be a mistake to move on from

 

I do have a problem with a general pattern that many here have talked about, where other teams strategically make a move or addition during the season that turns out to significantly bolster an area of need - Ingram, OBJ, etc etc.

 

Imagine if Beane went out and got Von Miller instead of the Rams.  I bet Mahomes would have been on his ass at least a few times.  It cost the Rams a second and third round pick and the Broncos agreed to pay the remaining salary.  That should have been Beane making that move.  That one move could have made the difference.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Scott7975

[Hapless Bills Fan]

48 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Isn't Bates the answer to your first question? He's already on the team and is a restricted FA.  Feliciano was ok. He was not terrible.  But he will be replaced with a rookie draft pick most likely.

 

Oh, I didn't realize Bates was an RFA.  But, he was an UDFA so that's pretty limited in its utility, right?  We could offer him a 1st round tender for ~$5.5M, a 2nd round tender for ~$3.9M, or a 1st refusal tender for $2.4M. 

 

Whether Bates is the answer to the question "who are the above average, proven able to play in the NFL centers who can play either side at guard?" depends upon how the team sees him.  Beane said some pretty positive things that some of the improvement in Dawkins' play in the last part of the season being  a credit to Bates.  If the team sees him as having earned the starting LG job for next season and anyone else having to beat him out, then by definition he's not the backup center.

 

I hope we plan to draft a C/G, and with a high pick.  But Ford is living walking proof that it's not safe to put all your eggs in the "rookie pick" basket.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Oh, I didn't realize Bates was an RFA.  But, he was an UDFA so that's pretty limited in its utility, right?  We could offer him a 1st round tender for ~$5.5M, a 2nd round tender for ~$3.9M, or a 1st refusal tender for $2.4M. 

 

Whether Bates is the answer to the question "who are the above average, proven able to play in the NFL centers who can play either side at guard?" depends upon how the team sees him.  Beane said some pretty positive things that some of the improvement in Dawkins' play in the last part of the season being  a credit to Bates.  If the team sees him as having earned the starting LG job for next season and anyone else having to beat him out, then by definition he's not the backup center.

 

I hope we plan to draft a C/G, and with a high pick.  But Ford is living walking proof that it's not safe to put all your eggs in the "rookie pick" basket.

I don't get it. Why can't he be the backup center just because he is playing?  Williams was the back-up RT when he was playing RG?  Feliciano was the back-up cneter when he was plying guard.  

I too would draft a C/G high if they do not address in FA. Most of us advocated that last year instead of Basham.  I could see Beane making a big OG signing in FA and leaving the draft for defense and a WR.  

[SCBills]

9 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

All those guys got YAC.  Beasley has lost a step and is getting old.  Time to move on.  We got torched with YAC.  On the flip side we got almost none.  It was all Allens arm.

 

Imagine if Beane went out and got Von Miller instead of the Rams.  I bet Mahomes would have been on his ass at least a few times.  It cost the Rams a second and third round pick and the Broncos agreed to pay the remaining salary.  That should have been Beane making that move.  That one move could have made the difference.

Man, that steep for Von Miller who’s a FA after the year. 
 

I know he looked good last week, but the Bucs OL was beat up.  The Eagles were teeing off on Brady when Wirfs went down too.  

[Scott7975]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Man, that steep for Von Miller who’s a FA after the year. 
 

I know he looked good last week, but the Bucs OL was beat up.  The Eagles were teeing off on Brady when Wirfs went down too.  

 

It's not really steep if it gets you over the hump. Again, just a sack or two on Mahomes may have made the difference. Who says he cant be re-signed to another contract?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

I don't get it. Why can't he be the backup center just because he is playing?  Williams was the back-up RT when he was playing RG?  Feliciano was the back-up cneter when he was plying guard.  

I too would draft a C/G high if they do not address in FA. Most of us advocated that last year instead of Basham.  I could see Beane making a big OG signing in FA and leaving the draft for defense and a WR.  

 

I don't think we're going to see a big OG signing.  I think the pickin's  are pretty slim, and the price is steep.  For example, Austin Corbett from the Rams is projected to have an $8M AAV.

 

Bates can be the backup C while playing LG, just as Feliciano was last year while playing RG.  But that simply shifts the chain - then you need to make sure you've got a workable alternative at backup G

[popcornpam]

They better sign Bates. He made the line play so much better. Josh had more time to throw and was better protected. Also the running game was hundred percent better!

[Toyo321]

Listening to the conference one thing that stood out is not even being mentioned.  Beane said the Pegula's have given them everything they have asked for.  I beg to differ.  This team needed additional help outside of the draft last year and at the trade deadline this year.  This team needed to bring in help for a super bowl run this year.  They did not upgrade any positions that were in question performing below average FROM LAST YEAR.  Not only that why in the world "when your starting CB goes on IR " don't you do anything to help mitigate this area of need.   We needed the help and Beane and the coaching staff did nothing.

 

Kelce and Hill shredded our CB's and all pro safeties again.  That last play when Hill went for a touchdown Milano had the angle to get to Hill and he could not shed his blocker to tackle Hill out of bounds. Milano tried to run down the field in front of Hill.  Are you kidding me.  The fastest guy in the league and Milano tries to run in a straight line to tackle this guy.  You see this over and over with our LB's.  They are not getting the job done  The same thing happened in the endzone with Kelce.  Our players are not doing "What it takes" to get the job done.  Milano never turned around in the endzone to look for the ball.  He missed 4 tackles that could have stopped KC plays earlier in the game , that resulted for more positive yards on the field for KC.

 

I said this last year, and this year,  that our lInebackers are crap and they are completely replaceable .  Our linebackers are only average and they signed Milano to a big deal when they should have let him walk on free agency.  He has been injured to often, he has been missing more tackles that allows teams to get more YAC.  He has been completely missing from the majority of the games this year.

 

Edmunds is a hole different issue.  The fact is this guy is athletic but he is not a game changer given how highly this coaching staff thinks of this guy, this does not buy you a free pass.  His on the field performance is not comparable to top linebacker play in this league.  He is terrible at positioning, gap integrity, his tackling skills are more than questionable too.  Pegula and Beane can't give money to this guy,  this team needs a better LB.  Edmunds needs to be traded or shown the door.  If our GM and head coach become blinded with their feelings that he is still developing we are screwed.  If Edmunds does not have it by now he never will.  No more free passes.

 

If Beane truly says the Pegula's are giving them everything they ask for then, why are we still dealing with these players that have not produced in the last two years.

 

This is Beans fault for not correctly addressing the positions were we need obvious upgrades for underperforming players,  to compete at the next level this has to be done this off season and in the draft.

 

We are not coaches but my god, I have played college sports for 4 years.  The level of coaching I was around and the demands they made of the players  and what they expected of you on field during practice and on game day,  was down right in your face and challenging you to be better.  Winning is based on player performance and results on the field during practice , and on the field game day.  You have to be smart and be able adapt as player while on the field.

 

The NFL is all about the money and some players play well once they get a big $ contract and there are others that don't.

 

I don't see our high $ players analyzing the game real time and making changes that a instinctive player will do on the field.  You need a instinct to perform at a elite level.  Talent and the ability to think fast and make the correct choices on the field is not something you can coach.  You either have it or you don't.  

 

Milano and Edmunds performance the last three years have done nothing to show me they deserve to be starting on this team.  They have been down right atrocious.

 

A.J Watt is a prime example of what I am talking about.  He is a instinctive and extremely smart player and will do anything it takes to make a play.  We do not have that from our linebackers.  Not even close to that type of effort by our LB's.

 

When this team needs their key players to compete and perform at higher level, as a super bowl contending team should,  I just don't see this with our high $ players on D and with our current GM and coaches and their blind favoritism to certain players on the D-Side of the ball.  

 

Beane just washed his hands in this press conference like he has done the last two years.  Not addressing the true area that this team needs to rectify on this defense.  IMO Buffalo's  D is made up of to many over paid underachievers and a under performing DC.  Our D is nothing more than a mirage camouflaged with good stats from playing garbage teams all year long.

 

Our GM, bad coaching and underperforming D cost us this game this past weekend.

 

I truly feel for Josh.  I don't know how he can be so humble is the press conference,  after he spilled his guts on the field to win that game.   

 

Did you see an single player on our D playing on the same level like Josh did.   NO FREAKIN WAY!!!!!  Oliver was the only player that made a real effort.  The rest of the D was crap.

 

Pathetic really.....

 

 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2022 by Toyo321

[bobobonators]

5 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Agree 100%.

 

In 2020 the Bills lost to the Chiefs 26 - 17 in Buffalo and 38 - 24 in KC.

 

In 2021 the Bills beat the Chiefs 38 - 20 in KC and lost in OT 42 - 36 in KC.

 

We are virtually dead even with them. Win the games in the regular season we should win and hold the game in Rich stadium and we advance and they go home.

 

I would also note that Allen has caught up to and blown by the Chiefs:

 

In 2020 Allen's stats were:  42/75 for 409 yards; 4 TD/2 INT; 15 carries for 130 yards

 

In 2021 Allen's stats were:  42/63 for 644 yards; 7 TD/0 INT; 22 carries for 127 yards & 1 TD

i mean not to be too much of a homer but losing 3 of 4 to them isnt nearly dead even. We need a big win against them in the playoffs, when it counts, to get this monkey off our back

[SydneyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, appoo said:

I said in another thread that my spiciest take would be replacing one of Micah and Poyer with someone like Jaquan Brisker - a dynamic safety who can run, cover and hit. 

 

I honestly think the Bills need more speed at both Safety and Corner

 

Yeah, I'm inclined to agree with this...we need one of our safeties to be lightning quick and a bruiser - Derwin James would be ideal.

 

This is not a slight on Poyer or Hyde, but unfortunately they are not getting any younger or any faster.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Nah. I think they prioritize bringing in a solid interior lineman….. Norwell(the ex Panther of course) comes to mind. 

 

Norwell?  The guy who shows up as the #2 FA guard on Spotrac with an AAV of $13.3M?

 

Yeah.

 

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/ufa/guard/all/

 

33 minutes ago, bobobonators said:

i mean not to be too much of a homer but losing 3 of 4 to them isnt nearly dead even. We need a big win against them in the playoffs, when it counts, to get this monkey off our back

 

I think what the guy you're talking to may have meant is that we have *improved* this year to a point where we are even with them and the game is close to a coin flip.

 

At least that's how I took it.

[bills6969]

Beane is awesome.  Best GM in the league!

[davefan66]

11 hours ago, Bob Chandler's Hands said:

Technically correct but completely misleading.

Buffalo's Top 51 cap space is $2.8M with 53 players under contract. 

Whereas KC's Top 51 cap space is $21.2M with only 38 players under contract.  So to compare the two situations you'd need to add 13 more players to the Chiefs roster at $1.4M per player to make it equivalent. That's a whole bunch of replacement level free agents with a few decent FA's mixed in. Probably not 13 players better than the Bills bottom 13 already on the roster. 

Dont forget about restructuring contracts.  
 

Mahomes, Jones, Clark, Hill and Thuney account for $142,000,000 cap hit next season.  That’s 5 players.  All except Hill have hefty dead cap space. Hill is 2.6 million, while Clark is 12 million and it explodes from there.  Restructure a few of these, most likely Mahomes  is one of them and they get much cap relief.  I hate to say.

 

It takes our top 12 contracts to reach 143 million, including Josh’s contract.

 

Id ‘d say we are in a better cap situation than the Chiefs.  Less players accounting for the most dollars.  The Chiefs will face a day of reckoning before we do.  

Edited January 27, 2022 by davefan66

[Turbo44]

7 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Listening to the conference one thing that stood out is not even being mentioned.  Beane said the Pegula's have given them everything they have asked for.  I beg to differ.  This team needed additional help outside of the draft last year and at the trade deadline this year.  This team needed to bring in help for a super bowl run this year.  They did not upgrade any positions that were in question performing below average FROM LAST YEAR.  Not only that why in the world "when your starting CB goes on IR " don't you do anything to help mitigate this area of need.   We needed the help and Beane and the coaching staff did nothing.

 

Kelce and Hill shredded our CB's and all pro safeties again.  That last play when Hill went for a touchdown Milano had the angle to get to Hill and he could not shed his blocker to tackle Hill out of bounds. Milano tried to run down the field in front of Hill.  Are you kidding me.  The fastest guy in the league and Milano tries to run in a straight line to tackle this guy.  You see this over and over with our LB's.  They are not getting the job done  The same thing happened in the endzone with Kelce.  Our players are not doing "What it takes" to get the job done.  Milano never turned around in the endzone to look for the ball.  He missed 4 tackles that could have stopped KC plays earlier in the game , that resulted for more positive yards on the field for KC.

 

I said this last year, and this year,  that our lInebackers are crap and they are completely replaceable .  Our linebackers are only average and they signed Milano to a big deal when they should have let him walk on free agency.  He has been injured to often, he has been missing more tackles that allows teams to get more YAC.  He has been completely missing from the majority of the games this year.

 

Edmunds is a hole different issue.  The fact is this guy is athletic but he is not a game changer given how highly this coaching staff thinks of this guy, this does not buy you a free pass.  His on the field performance is not comparable to top linebacker play in this league.  He is terrible at positioning, gap integrity, his tackling skills are more than questionable too.  Pegula and Beane can't give money to this guy,  this team needs a better LB.  Edmunds needs to be traded or shown the door.  If our GM and head coach become blinded with their feelings that he is still developing we are screwed.  If Edmunds does not have it by now he never will.  No more free passes.

 

If Beane truly says the Pegula's are giving them everything they ask for then, why are we still dealing with these players that have not produced in the last two years.

 

This is Beans fault for not correctly addressing the positions were we need obvious upgrades for underperforming players,  to compete at the next level this has to be done this off season and in the draft.

 

We are not coaches but my god, I have played college sports for 4 years.  The level of coaching I was around and the demands they made of the players  and what they expected of you on field during practice and on game day,  was down right in your face and challenging you to be better.  Winning is based on player performance and results on the field during practice , and on the field game day.  You have to be smart and be able adapt as player while on the field.

 

The NFL is all about the money and some players play well once they get a big $ contract and there are others that don't.

 

I don't see our high $ players analyzing the game real time and making changes that a instinctive player will do on the field.  You need a instinct to perform at a elite level.  Talent and the ability to think fast and make the correct choices on the field is not something you can coach.  You either have it or you don't.  

 

Milano and Edmunds performance the last three years have done nothing to show me they deserve to be starting on this team.  They have been down right atrocious.

 

A.J Watt is a prime example of what I am talking about.  He is a instinctive and extremely smart player and will do anything it takes to make a play.  We do not have that from our linebackers.  Not even close to that type of effort by our LB's.

 

When this team needs their key players to compete and perform at higher level, as a super bowl contending team should,  I just don't see this with our high $ players on D and with our current GM and coaches and their blind favoritism to certain players on the D-Side of the ball.  

 

Beane just washed his hands in this press conference like he has done the last two years.  Not addressing the true area that this team needs to rectify on this defense.  IMO Buffalo's  D is made up of to many over paid underachievers and a under performing DC.  Our D is nothing more than a mirage camouflaged with good stats from playing garbage teams all year long.

 

Our GM, bad coaching and underperforming D cost us this game this past weekend.

 

I truly feel for Josh.  I don't know how he can be so humble is the press conference,  after he spilled his guts on the field to win that game.   

 

Did you see an single player on our D playing on the same level like Josh did.   NO FREAKIN WAY!!!!!  Oliver was the only player that made a real effort.  The rest of the D was crap.

 

Pathetic really.....

 

 

 

 

Milano and Edmunds have been atrocious?? Wow that’s a bit rough 

[JhonSnow]

interesting

[eball]

11 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

I meant consistent failure going forward of not winning a SB because they have consistently erred on the side of caution with the cap…. They sat on their hands with a ton of available pass rushers available last off season opting for the ex Panther and a pair of rookies, the one big move they’ve made was Diggs…. They need a couple more playmakers on both sides of the ball, and I wish they would take more of a big splash risk in FA then they have to this point considering the only player they should be concerned with resigning at this point is Oliver going forward. 

 

The Bills are basically taking the Steelers approach, which has served Pittsburgh well for a hella long time.  Everyone looking for the “splash” is going to be repeatedly disappointed in Beane.

 

I’ll say it again — I have ZERO concerns about how Beane will continue to build and tweak the roster through the draft and with mid-level free agents, re-signing homegrown talent to good value deals and avoiding those “splashes” that more often than not are mistakes.

 

[Governor]

9 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Listening to the conference one thing that stood out is not even being mentioned.  Beane said the Pegula's have given them everything they have asked for.  I beg to differ.  This team needed additional help outside of the draft last year and at the trade deadline this year.  This team needed to bring in help for a super bowl run this year.  They did not upgrade any positions that were in question performing below average FROM LAST YEAR.  Not only that why in the world "when your starting CB goes on IR " don't you do anything to help mitigate this area of need.   We needed the help and Beane and the coaching staff did nothing.

 

Kelce and Hill shredded our CB's and all pro safeties again.  That last play when Hill went for a touchdown Milano had the angle to get to Hill and he could not shed his blocker to tackle Hill out of bounds. Milano tried to run down the field in front of Hill.  Are you kidding me.  The fastest guy in the league and Milano tries to run in a straight line to tackle this guy.  You see this over and over with our LB's.  They are not getting the job done  The same thing happened in the endzone with Kelce.  Our players are not doing "What it takes" to get the job done.  Milano never turned around in the endzone to look for the ball.  He missed 4 tackles that could have stopped KC plays earlier in the game , that resulted for more positive yards on the field for KC.

 

I said this last year, and this year,  that our lInebackers are crap and they are completely replaceable .  Our linebackers are only average and they signed Milano to a big deal when they should have let him walk on free agency.  He has been injured to often, he has been missing more tackles that allows teams to get more YAC.  He has been completely missing from the majority of the games this year.

 

Edmunds is a hole different issue.  The fact is this guy is athletic but he is not a game changer given how highly this coaching staff thinks of this guy, this does not buy you a free pass.  His on the field performance is not comparable to top linebacker play in this league.  He is terrible at positioning, gap integrity, his tackling skills are more than questionable too.  Pegula and Beane can't give money to this guy,  this team needs a better LB.  Edmunds needs to be traded or shown the door.  If our GM and head coach become blinded with their feelings that he is still developing we are screwed.  If Edmunds does not have it by now he never will.  No more free passes.

 

If Beane truly says the Pegula's are giving them everything they ask for then, why are we still dealing with these players that have not produced in the last two years.

 

This is Beans fault for not correctly addressing the positions were we need obvious upgrades for underperforming players,  to compete at the next level this has to be done this off season and in the draft.

 

We are not coaches but my god, I have played college sports for 4 years.  The level of coaching I was around and the demands they made of the players  and what they expected of you on field during practice and on game day,  was down right in your face and challenging you to be better.  Winning is based on player performance and results on the field during practice , and on the field game day.  You have to be smart and be able adapt as player while on the field.

 

The NFL is all about the money and some players play well once they get a big $ contract and there are others that don't.

 

I don't see our high $ players analyzing the game real time and making changes that a instinctive player will do on the field.  You need a instinct to perform at a elite level.  Talent and the ability to think fast and make the correct choices on the field is not something you can coach.  You either have it or you don't.  

 

Milano and Edmunds performance the last three years have done nothing to show me they deserve to be starting on this team.  They have been down right atrocious.

 

A.J Watt is a prime example of what I am talking about.  He is a instinctive and extremely smart player and will do anything it takes to make a play.  We do not have that from our linebackers.  Not even close to that type of effort by our LB's.

 

When this team needs their key players to compete and perform at higher level, as a super bowl contending team should,  I just don't see this with our high $ players on D and with our current GM and coaches and their blind favoritism to certain players on the D-Side of the ball.  

 

Beane just washed his hands in this press conference like he has done the last two years.  Not addressing the true area that this team needs to rectify on this defense.  IMO Buffalo's  D is made up of to many over paid underachievers and a under performing DC.  Our D is nothing more than a mirage camouflaged with good stats from playing garbage teams all year long.

 

Our GM, bad coaching and underperforming D cost us this game this past weekend.

 

I truly feel for Josh.  I don't know how he can be so humble is the press conference,  after he spilled his guts on the field to win that game.   

 

Did you see an single player on our D playing on the same level like Josh did.   NO FREAKIN WAY!!!!!  Oliver was the only player that made a real effort.  The rest of the D was crap.

 

Pathetic really.....

 

 

 

 

I totally agree with you. Milano is extremely overrated. I would like to see both LB’s gone along with a new DC. I wanted them gone last season. There were plenty that we could’ve drafted. 
 

These aren’t NEW problems. They were quite apparent after last season. We just aren’t good enough.

 

There was a long stretch where our soft play seemed to be working and Mahomes had nowhere to go with the ball, but this defense didn’t have a 4th quarter strategy. They can only play 1 way, and that’s with Edmunds standing in the middle of the field with his arms out flying an airplane.

Edited January 27, 2022 by Governor

[CountDorkula]

It sounds like to me they are going to target more D-line in the draft, which is so F)*(^ stupid.

[eball]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

A splash move or two would go a long way in getting this team the one seed and over the top to a SB IMO… I understand it’s not their way and out of their comfort zone, I just wish they change the philosophy a bit. 

 

Dude.  They were ONE 4th down conversion at the 3-yard line vs. Tennessee away from the #1 seed THIS year.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:49 AM, BillsFanSD said:

There is nothing to "fix."  If we could somehow bring back the exact same roster next year and alter the rules of time so that nobody gets any older and nobody is any more injured than they were on Sunday, I'd happily take my chances against KC again.  They were quite clearly a somewhat better team than us last year.  They are not a better team than us now.  The Bills and Chiefs are the two best teams in the league.  We're not going to bat 1.000 against other elite teams and not realistic to expect us to.  Beane has succeeded in building a championship roster. 

 

Of course, we won't be able to bring back the exact same roster.  We're probably going to be in the market for at least one and maybe two WRs.  We'll probably see some turnover on the D-line.  I still think we should add more talent/depth at CB and I would like to take a long hard look at RBs who might be available in FA or the draft.  

 

But we're just talking about tweaking things around the margins, replacing a small number of not-especially-irreplaceable FAs, and maybe upgrading a few spots where we're getting a little old.  The core of this team is set.  

 

It's not just "tweaking things around the margins" IMHO.  Addison and Hughes are both FA, as is Harrison Phillips and Butler.   Rookie replacements Rousseau, Epenesa, and Basham look like the "not ready for Prime Time" bunch as did Lotulelei the 2nd half of the season.  So, after using one 1st and 2 2nd round picks on DL in the last 2 seasons, we're in the place of still having to re-build our DL.

 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

11 hours ago, bobobonators said:

i mean not to be too much of a homer but losing 3 of 4 to them isnt nearly dead even. We need a big win against them in the playoffs, when it counts, to get this monkey off our back

You can't look at the Bills versus the Chiefs as a static line over the last 2 seasons. Rather you need to see it as an evolving curve where the Bills are closing the gap.

 

The Bills were a playoff team in 2019 and didn't play the Chiefs that year but is there any doubt they would have hammered us?  Then in 2020 the Chiefs beat us rather easily in Buffalo and at KC.  This year we beat the Chiefs soundly in KC then lost in OT at KC.  That is the very definition of pulling even with the Chiefs at 1 - 1.

 

There is no monkey to get off our backs.  The goal now is to get strategic and make sure that in the future playoff games between the Chiefs and the Bills are played in Buffalo.

 

 

 

 

 

45 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not just "tweaking things around the margins" IMHO.  Addison and Hughes are both FA, as is Harrison Phillips and Butler.   Rookie replacements Rousseau, Epenesa, and Basham look like the "not ready for Prime Time" bunch as did Lotulelei the 2nd half of the season.  So, after using one 1st and 2 2nd round picks on DL in the last 2 seasons, we're in the place of still having to re-build our DL.

 

 

But it should be relatively straightforward to sign Phillips and it's not an unreasonable expectation that Rousseau & Basham might see big jumps in their performance from their rookie to their 2nd seasons. Also we get Zimmer back from injury and he was playing very well before he got hurt.

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

But it should be relatively straightforward to sign Phillips and it's not an unreasonable expectation that Rousseau & Basham might see big jumps in their performance from their rookie to their 2nd seasons. Also we get Zimmer back from injury and he was playing very well before he got hurt.

 

It's not an unreasonable possibility that Rousseau and Basham might see big jumps.  Phillips was not "all that" in the early part of the season after he recovered from ACL surgery, and he had his injury earlier in the season.  Both Philips and Zimmer have been down with injuries - Zimmer this season, Phillips lost most of one season, was hindered the next, and was hindered by a different ligament injury at the start of this season.

 

So let me ask it a different way.  Last year, Beane made a strong case that "we need to affect the QB more".  Is it a reasonable EXPECTATION that by going with Zimmer off injury, Oliver, Phillips (oft injured), and Lotulelei (who Beane indicated fell off the last part of the season, which he attributed to Covid) at DT and Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and a lower-tier FA or 2 at DE - but losing Hughes, Epenesa, Butler, and Obada - we will continue to at least maintain the same level of "affecting the QB" as this past season?

 

Do you want to bet the season on Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa taking a step?

 

 

[RochesterLifer]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Do you want to bet the season on Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa taking a step?

 

 

I'll enthusiastically make that bet on Rousseau, currently a man-child who's huge frame can fit a lot more muscle and still has much to learn.

I am also willing to make that bet with Basham, although cautiously.

I am rooting for Epenesa, but not willing to bet. 

[CincyBillsFan]

1 minute ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's not an unreasonable possibility that Rousseau and Basham might see big jumps.  Phillips was not "all that" in the early part of the season after he recovered from ACL surgery, and he had his injury earlier in the season.  Both Philips and Zimmer have been down with injuries - Zimmer this season, Phillips lost most of one season, was hindered the next, and was hindered by a different ligament injury at the start of this season.

 

So let me ask it a different way.  Last year, Beane made a strong case that "we need to affect the QB more".  Is it a reasonable EXPECTATION that by going with Zimmer off injury, Oliver, Phillips (oft injured), and Lotulelei (who Beane indicated fell off the last part of the season, which he attributed to Covid) at DT and Epenesa, Rousseau, Basham and a lower-tier FA or 2 at DE - but losing Hughes, Epenesa, Butler, and Obada - we will continue to at least maintain the same level of "affecting the QB" as this past season?

 

Do you want to bet the season on Rousseau, Basham, and Epenesa taking a step?

 

 

My sense is that the Bills need to learn to live with what they have on defense and throw everything at the offense.  This is what the Chiefs have done and they're going to a 4th straight AFC Championship game.

 

If the right defensive player is available in free agency and/or the draft, grab them. But the focus should be on the offense. This must become an Allen centric team in the way that the Chiefs are a Mahomes centric team.  Even after last season there were lingering doubts whether Allen could duplicate his success and whether he could rise to the top in the crucible of the playoffs.  He has demonstrated beyond a shadow of doubt that he can do both so now is the time to go all in on Allen.

 

This means adding a RB, preferably a bruiser, to the backfield; adding a 2nd TE that can block & catch; adding speed and/or size to the WR group and if available further improve the O-line. And I don't think we need to make a big splash in any of these positions. Just bring in solid guys who are an upgrade to what we have. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Saint Doug]

I think our DL is fine. Rousseau and Boogie will take a step forward next year. If anyone, add someone who excels at stopping the run. Outside of that, we need a blue chip CB besides White. Someone with great tackling technique once Edmonds whiffs. Go DB round 1. 

[Bangarang]

3 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

I think our DL is fine. Rousseau and Boogie will take a step forward next year. If anyone, add someone who excels at stopping the run. Outside of that, we need a blue chip CB besides White. Someone with great tackling technique once Edmonds whiffs. Go DB round 1. 

I hate assuming guys will automatically get better. It just doesn’t always happen. I’m sure people thought Epenesa would settle into his new weight and come into the season with an increased role and productivity.

[dave mcbride]

A general comment: yes, there is going to be some turnover on D, but the Bills defense was very, very good this season. And yes, they beat up on some bad teams, but all good teams beat up on bad teams. And their schedule wasn't inordinately easy either - of their 17 games, they played 9 teams with winning records. I mean, every good defense had some defensive clunkers this season. The Colts were torched by JACKSONVILLE in a must-win game. The Steelers were torched by Mahomes twice in a couple of weeks. The Broncos - which have an excellent D - were torched by Vegas, Pitt, and Philly.  The Rams were torched multiple times (GB, AZ, SF). TB was torched by numerous teams too. The second ranked defense, the Pats, actually played a playoff game in which their opponent scored a TD on every drive!

 

I could go on. Sometimes I think that people here don't actually watch other teams.  

 

Anyway, the Bills are in a good position on D and I'd be happy if Frazier remains. 

Edited January 27, 2022 by dave mcbride