Josh Allen is a future HOFer. There I said it...

[Big Turk]

I know it's still early and he has a lot of football left to play, but the dude simply is constantly doing things nobody in the history of the NFL has done before. Perfect offensive games, best 2 game stretch in the history of the NFL Playoffs, numerous firsts in regular season QB play...

 

This dude is a future HOFer.  We are witnessing greatness like we have never seen before at the QB position in Buffalo and likely will never see again. I hope we never take it for granted.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Big Turk

[MJS]

To solidify it he needs to go win a Superbowl, but he certainly has Hall of Fame talent. As a QB, you need championships and/or cumulative stats to get in these days. That means he needs to play at a high level for at least 15 years, or get a couple Superbowl wins.

 

The extra game each season will help with the cumulative stats, though.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, MJS said:

To solidify it he needs to go win a Superbowl, but he certainly has Hall of Fame talent. As a QB, you need championships and/or cumulative stats to get in these days. That means he needs to play at a high level for at least 15 years, or get a couple Superbowl wins.

 

The extra game each season will help with the cumulative stats, though.

 

Rivers is going to make it and he sucked even in the playoffs most years. Not true.

[MJS]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Rivers is going to make it and he sucked even in the playoffs most years. Not true.

He has the cumulative stats. That's what I'm saying. You need one or the other. He has 63k yards (6th all-time) and 421 TD's (also 6th all-time), plus he is an 8 time pro bowler. He doesn't have the championship, but he has the cumulative stats.

[Big Turk]

Just now, MJS said:

He has the cumulative stats. That's what I'm saying. You need one or the other. He has 63k yards (6th all-time) and 421 TD's (also 6th all-time), plus he is an 8 time pro bowler. He doesn't have the championship, but he has the cumulative stats.

 

You don't think Allen is going to have those type of stats putting up 4500+ yards every year?

[MJS]

5 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You don't think Allen is going to have those type of stats putting up 4500+ yards every year?

What is it you think I am saying? Did I cast any doubt on Josh Allen at all? Did I say he can't do it? No. I just stated the facts. To get into the hall of fame as a QB, you need stats or championships.

 

Allen has a long road to the hall of fame. He can totally get there, but he is nowhere close yet. The bar is extremely, extremely high for QB's these days. I believe he can do it.

Edited January 25, 2022 by MJS

[BullBuchanan]

 

6 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

You don't think Allen is going to have those type of stats putting up 4500+ yards every year?

Does Andrew Luck? Tony Romo? Marc Bulger?

***** happens.

[Doc Brown]

Injuries will be the only thing that prevents it.  I suggest running less and keep investing in the o-line.  Barring that, he certainly can get in on stats (Marino, Fouts, Kelly, Tarkenton, Moon, Jurgenson?) or hopefully at least one Super Bowl victory in his career to go along with them.

Edited January 25, 2022 by Doc Brown

[transplantbillsfan]

We know. I believed he was going to be after year 2. Most objective fans could see he probably would after last season.

 

Anyone who can't see that barring a (PLEASE PLEASE GOD NO!!!) godforsaken career ending or debilitating injury at this point he's getting a jacket is stubborn or overcompensating or a hater.

 

I don't care about the Gold Jacket. He's getting it. I want the multiple Super Bowls we're due with him as our QB.

[transplantbillsfan]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

Does Andrew Luck? Tony Romo? Marc Bulger?

***** happens.

 

Did you really just compare Josh Allen to Marc Bulger

 

Don't ever, ever do that again.

 

Tony Romo might have eventually gotten in if he had better durability and stayed in the league longer, which Jerry Jones made clear he could.

 

Andrew Luck would be in the HOF if he had the proper FO and nearly the love for Football Allen clearly does. And that's not a controversial statement... it's well documented. Just as it is with Trevor Lawrence.

[BullBuchanan]

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Did you really just compare Josh Allen to Marc Bulger

 

No, I sure didn't. Take a breath and re-read the post with context.

[transplantbillsfan]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

 

No, I sure didn't. Take a breath and re-read the post with context.

 

I did. Sure looks like you are.

 

Just say he might get injured. Why the hell would you compare him to a wildly inferior QB like Bulger?

Edited January 25, 2022 by transplantbillsfan

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

I did. Sure looks like you are.

Alright. I'll explain it to you like you're a child. The message here is that injuries can derail careers. Bulger wasn't an all-time elite guy, but his career was derailed by injury before it ever really got going. He had 4 great years of production and after that he was done. If he played 15 at his pace, he would have finished with top 10 numbers. Luck could have been one of the all-time greats but injuries robbed him of that, and Tony Romo while not in that upper most echelon of guys, was easily a match for some guys that are in or will be in the hall like Esiason and Eli.

Allen has a long road in front of him, and if he stays healthy, he'll get there, but he has two years of great production under his belt. It takes a lot more than that to get into the Hall.

Edited January 25, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Big Turk]

19 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Alright. I'll explain it to you like you're a child. The message here is that injuries can derail careers. Bulger wasn't an all-time elite guy, but his career was derailed by injury before it ever really got going. He had 4 great years of production and after that he was done. If he played 15 at his pace, he would have finished with top 10 numbers. Luck could have been one of the all-time greats but injuries robbed him of that, and Tony Romo while not in that upper most echelon of guys, was easily a match for some guys that are in or will be in the hall like Esiason and Eli.

Allen has a long road in front of him, and if he stays healthy, he'll get there, but he has two years of great production under his belt. It takes a lot more than that to get into the Hall.

 

It's more than great production. It's that Allen is doing things never seen in the NFL before.

[transplantbillsfan]

24 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Alright. I'll explain it to you like you're a child. The message here is that injuries can derail careers. Bulger wasn't an all-time elite guy, but his career was derailed by injury before it ever really got going. He had 4 great years of production and after that he was done. If he played 15 at his pace, he would have finished with top 10 numbers. Luck could have been one of the all-time greats but injuries robbed him of that, and Tony Romo while not in that upper most echelon of guys, was easily a match for some guys that are in or will be in the hall like Esiason and Eli.

Allen has a long road in front of him, and if he stays healthy, he'll get there, but he has two years of great production under his belt. It takes a lot more than that to get into the Hall.

 

Are you just being obtuse or can you really not see the difference between Josh Allen and Tony Romo or Marc Bulger?

 

The Andrew Luck comparison is relevant, but I think Luck is out of the league because he doesn't love football as much as a HOFer needs to.

 

Injury could derail a career, but for Allen it'd have to be pretty act-of-God kinda stuff. I could see him POSSIBLY tearing an ACL at some point and then coming back even stronger and better... Ala Tom Brady.

[Dr.Sack]

In just 4 seasons he’s well on his way. Assume a 12 year career 2018-2029 and multiply his #s by 3.
 

117 wins 63 losses.

42,342 yards 309 TDs, 138 picks

6,975 rushing 93 rushing touchdowns. 

 

Playoffs would be 12-12 

5,154 yards 42 TDs, 3 picks 

1,113 yards rushing, 3 rushing TDs
 

Those are unique HOF caliber #s. 
 

Even if Allen retires at 33 and puts up 0 titles that’s a HOF career. 

Reality says those rushing totals aren’t sustainable & the passing #s should explode while the rushing becomes more necessity like when Mahomes runs. 

[1ManRaid]

5 minutes ago, Dr.Sack said:

In just 4 seasons he’s well on his way. Assume a 12 year career 2018-2029 and multiply his #s by 3.
 

117 wins 63 losses.

42,342 yards 309 TDs, 138 picks

6,975 rushing 93 rushing touchdowns. 

 

Playoffs would be 12-12 

5,154 yards 42 TDs, 3 picks 

1,113 yards rushing, 3 rushing TDs
 

Those are unique HOF caliber #s. 
 

Even if Allen retires at 33 and puts up 0 titles that’s a HOF career. 

Reality says those rushing totals aren’t sustainable & the passing #s should explode while the rushing becomes more necessity like when Mahomes runs. 

 

Reality also says it's not fair to multiply his first two development seasons by 3, unless you expect him to regress back to rookie/sophomore form for 50% of his career.  His projected career numbers could be even better if you don't average his project years into it.

[Dr.Sack]

Just now, 1ManRaid said:

 

Reality also says it's not fair to multiply his first two development seasons by 3, unless you expect him to regress back to rookie/sophomore form for 50% of his career.  His projected career numbers could be even better if you don't average his project years into it.

Obviously and we didn’t factor in 17 game seasons, possible injuries, etc. Assume the tail end of his career resembles 2018 / 2019 numbers. He has the talent to play beyond this age, but will need a complimentary dominant running game to alleviate the abuse he dishes out and takes in return. 

[BullBuchanan]

17 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Are you just being obtuse or can you really not see the difference between Josh Allen and Tony Romo or Marc Bulger?

 

The Andrew Luck comparison is relevant, but I think Luck is out of the league because he doesn't love football as much as a HOFer needs to.

 

Injury could derail a career, but for Allen it'd have to be pretty act-of-God kinda stuff. I could see him POSSIBLY tearing an ACL at some point and then coming back even stronger and better... Ala Tom Brady.

I could write it in crayon if that helps. Just because I list players that had hall of fame statistic trajectories before injuries took their toll doesn't mean I think they are the same caliber of player as Allen. They aren't. You can compare similar situations without all things being equal. If Matt Stafford plays another 4 years at the same level he'll beat out Rivers and likely go to the Hall as well.

Edited January 25, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[DRA3196]

If Josh continues to develop I can see him being a HOF player. Going to be fun watching his career unfold. Let's hope he continues to grow.

[oldmanfan]

Assuming no injuries, no question in my mind.  His kind of talent is rare.

[shane nelson]

Needs a ring to be in the Hall or a ton of SB appearances.  He is an amazing player, we just need to hope he stays health, level headed and we provide the coaches and players to continue at this level.  

[HOUSE]

It took me 13 seconds to think about this, I agree

[Greg S]

7 minutes ago, shane nelson said:

Needs a ring to be in the Hall or a ton of SB appearances.  He is an amazing player, we just need to hope he stays health, level headed and we provide the coaches and players to continue at this level.  

 

Marino is in the Hall with no rings and only one Super Bowl appearance.

[BruceVilanch]

13 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Marino is in the Hall with no rings and only one Super Bowl appearance.

Rivers will get in too with even less accolades.

[zow2]

Ugh, they put up a stat this morning on ESPN.  Josh's playoff numbers put him in rare air.  9 TD's zero int's.  Only 4 other QB's in NFL history have done that and all made the Super Bowl that season, 3 won it.  

[foreboding]

6 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I know it's still early and he has a lot of football left to play, but the dude simply is constantly doing things nobody in the history of the NFL has done before. Perfect offensive games, best 2 game stretch in the history of the NFL Playoffs, numerous firsts in regular season QB play...

 

This dude is a future HOFer.  We are witnessing greatness like we have never seen before at the QB position in Buffalo and likely will never see again. I hope we never take it for granted.

"there i said it."

 

I agree, but not exactly a hot take. Almost every single pundit on the planet would agree with this

[Boatdrinks]

Maybe still a hot take, but the past two seasons and especially the 2021 playoffs make a strong case for the potential. It’s a shame his seemingly inevitable course to a SB win was ripped away from him by this coaching staff. 

[Your Brown Eye]

I'd be more impressed if you chose someone else on our team other than our superstar QB to make such a claim

[mannc]

7 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I know it's still early and he has a lot of football left to play, but the dude simply is constantly doing things nobody in the history of the NFL has done before. Perfect offensive games, best 2 game stretch in the history of the NFL Playoffs, numerous firsts in regular season QB play...

 

This dude is a future HOFer.  We are witnessing greatness like we have never seen before at the QB position in Buffalo and likely will never see again. I hope we never take it for granted.

This is not exactly a newsflash…

[BillsFanSD]

I don't see this as a hot take.  Allen has very obviously been playing at a HOF level for the past two seasons.  Two seasons isn't enough to get you into the HOF, but there's zero reason to think that he's going to suddenly start being average.  Barring a severe injury or some freak occurrence, I think there's something like an 85-90% chance that Allen lands in the HOF within 5 years of becoming eligible for enshrinement.

 

This is one of those things where you just have to watch the other games and get a good perspective on what's normal around the league.  Allen's level of play is not normal.  Kansas City is literally the only team in the league that would not be a better roster if they swapped QBs with us.  Cincinnati would be better with Allen.  San Diego would be better with Allen.  Green Bay would be better with Allen.  Tampa would still be playing if they had Allen.  It's just KC, and they wouldn't be any worse with Allen.  There is literally nobody in the league playing the position any better than him right now.  It won't stay that way, but it's where things are at the moment. 

 

Edited January 25, 2022 by BillsFanSD

[PromoTheRobot]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

This is not exactly a newsflash…

 

But what does Jerry Sullivan think?

[mannc]

Just now, PromoTheRobot said:

 

But what does Jerry Sullivan think?

Try to do better

[May Day 10]

7 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

Injuries will be the only thing that prevents it.  I suggest running less and keep investing in the o-line.  

 

This.  While I love seeing him run people over, and it is highly effective... they really need to figure out a way to take that burden off of him.  

[ToGoGo]

16 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

I don't see this as a hot take.  Allen has very obviously been playing at a HOF level for the past two seasons.  Two seasons isn't enough to get you into the HOF, but there's zero reason to think that he's going to suddenly start being average.  Barring a severe injury or some freak occurrence, I think there's something like an 85-90% chance that Allen lands in the HOF within 5 years of becoming eligible for enshrinement.

 

This is one of those things where you just have to watch the other games and get a good perspective on what's normal around the league.  Allen's level of play is not normal.  Kansas City is literally the only team in the league that would not be a better roster if they swapped QBs with us.  Cincinnati would be better with Allen.  San Diego would be better with Allen.  Green Bay would be better with Allen.  Tampa would still be playing if they had Allen.  It's just KC, and they wouldn't be any worse with Allen.  There is literally nobody in the league playing the position any better than him right now.  It won't stay that way, but it's where things are at the moment. 

 

 

Agree with everything except the KC part. I don't see why the Chiefs wouldn't be better with Allen. Allen doesn't have Kelce or Hill to make all those YAC. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Maybe- he needs to keep evolving his game though. 

 

See Cam Newton

24 minutes ago, Your Brown Eye said:

I'd be more impressed if you chose someone else on our team other than our superstar QB to make such a claim

Like 49 😉 that’d be ballsy 

[Albany,n.y.]

8 hours ago, Big Turk said:

I know it's still early and he has a lot of football left to play, but the dude simply is constantly doing things nobody in the history of the NFL has done before. Perfect offensive games, best 2 game stretch in the history of the NFL Playoffs, numerous firsts in regular season QB play...

 

This dude is a future HOFer.  We are witnessing greatness like we have never seen before at the QB position in Buffalo and likely will never see again. I hope we never take it for granted.

I called him a future HOFer on opening day 2019, what took you so long to figure it out?  😀

 

Here's the story:  I was sold on Josh from the time he arrived in camp as a rookie and saw glimpses of greatness his rookie year.  I went out and bought his jersey after the Vikings game.  Now did I really believe he'd be a HOFer, not that early but I had my hopes.

 

On opening day 2019 I went on a bus trip to NJ to watch the Bills at Jets game.  There was a Jets fan in front of me on the bus & he started mocking Josh Allen for being inaccurate.  I got so mad that I told him Josh Allen is good and he's going to be great.  When he laughed at me I doubled down and said that Josh would end up in the Hall of Fame.   Now did I really think that at the time?  Probably not, but I did think he was the Bills long term answer at QB.  So because of that Jets fan's taunting, I can truly say that the 1st time I said Josh Allen would be in the Hall of Fame was as early as September 8, 2019.  

 

[Logic]

I agree.

Let's hope the Bills organization can find a way to make sure he's not a Dan Marino or Dan Fouts or Philip Rivers. In other words, help the man win a title.

[HOUSE]

So you bump this thread in 20 year?

 

Great strategy....

[transplantbillsfan]

7 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

I could write it in crayon if that helps. Just because I list players that had hall of fame statistic trajectories before injuries took their toll doesn't mean I think they are the same caliber of player as Allen. They aren't. You can compare similar situations without all things being equal. If Matt Stafford plays another 4 years at the same level he'll beat out Rivers and likely go to the Hall as well.

 

Stafford is a HOFer if he wins a Super Bowl this year. 

 

The issue is the obscurites you have to reach for like Bulger as an argument on your part that this won't happen.

 

I don't even think Bulger was on a HOF trajectory and Romo is wildly debateable, but for argument's sake, you've found 3 examples of players whose careers were derailed by injury. Cam Newton would probably have been your best example..

 

Of course it could happen. I could also win the lottery or get struck by lightning. But there's no point thinking about any of those things because it's not all that likely.