THE ROCKPILE REVIEW - I've got Nuthin'

[Shaw66]

3 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

Beane failed to do his job. The whole offseason was supposed to be about becoming good enough to dethrone the Chiefs. 

Happy, I love your stuff, but this is fundamentally wrong.  This is HappyDays' definition what the whole offseason was supposed to be about.   It most definitely does not describe how Beane and McDermott operate.  

 

Their objective is never changing.  Their objective is to have the best football team they can have.  They want to build their team to be better than the previous season, year after year.   They do NOT go into the off-season intending to reshape their team to beat a particular opponent.  

 

Their objective is to make the team good enough to get home playoff games.   They want their opponents, whoever they be, to come through Buffalo.  

 

They are confident that if they build properly, the winning will take care of itself.  

[KCNC]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't entered the fray to talk who's fault it was, what might have been done differently, etc.   I've seen several comments about the loss being on the coaches and how they did or did not manage the defense down the stretch.  I have a variety of thoughts about all of that, and I might talk about it more later, but for now I want to respond this idea.

 

I don't think I agree with McDermott's defensive philosophy, but this "deer in the headlights"  thing is wrong.  That's what people said about the defense when they gave up some drives in the Houston playoff game, and they completely ignored multiple stops the defense made in that game, stops that allowed the Bills to get back into the game.  

 

Last night, Hill had a humongus return late in the game, and the defense held on three downs and forced a field goal.  A huge stand. 

 

The fact that the Bills defense can't stop two of the top five offensive players in the league, at will, any time, is NOT the problem.   Did the Chiefs also have a deer in the headlights look?   They couldn't stop the Bills, either.  

 

 

I get that.  It was a chorus of errors.  You could point to any one of them.   Maybe I have been through this too many times, but even with 13 seconds left, I was not even celebrating the TD.  All I could think was Mahomes + 3 TOs = sure field goal.  I just had zero confidence in the defense in crunch time last night.  I know they were tired.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, Lost said:

 It's truly remarkable how similar the stat lines of these two QBs are over the last two post season games.   The fact that Allen went into a hostile environment and did what he did is even more impressive to me than Mahomes.

Allen was incredible.  

 

Remember when the narrative was "Allen isn't accurate, and you can't fix accuracy"?   

 

He'll be better next season.  

[BullBuchanan]

1 hour ago, HamSandwhich said:

 that game reinforced Allen >>>> Mahomes. The D/coaching lost that game. 

But that's not what happened. They both played equally flawless football. Given that Mahomes has been doing it 4 straight years and has made it to the AFCCG every year, tie goes to the runner.

 

Edited January 24, 2022 by BullBuchanan

[Logic]

In my opinion, this is the second worst loss in Bills history.

I still have to give Super Bowl XXV the nod for worst, simply because it was the Super Bowl.

Other than that, though? This game takes the cake for me. Worse than the Music City Miracle.

Here is why I view it as such:

1) There are games where you did the absolute best you could, but the other team just made more plays. Games you deserved to lose. Then there are games that you SHOULD have won, but in some improbable way, you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This was the latter. Bills should have won. Inexcusable.

2) The specific "13 seconds" failure is all the more astonishing and painful because our team is coached by two of the smartest defensive minds in the league. And yet, I'm convinced most 10-year-olds that have ever played Madden would've called more logical defense on those final two plays. Just brutal.

3) Daboll and Frazier are likely gone after this season. We'll probably have new (or at least somewhat) different offensive and defensive systems installed next year. Seamless transition is no guarantee. This was the last gasp of this "iteration" of the Bills. Josh Allen's big contract numbers are going to start kicking in soon, too, and it's going to get harder to retain our good players.

4) None of the teams left -- Bengals, 49ers, Rams -- were going to beat the Bills. Had the Bills gotten past the Chiefs, as they should have, they would have become Super Bowl champions. I'm certain of it. This was our year. This was the team. Josh Allen's moment to ascend to the top of the mountain and claim the "best QB in the league" title and win Buffalo its first Lombardi.

Bottom line: Josh Allen had the highest playoff quarterback rating in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE this year and was backed up by the number 1 yardage and scoring defense...and it still wasn't enough to win a title. As such, at this moment in time, it's hard for me to picture the Bills EVER winning a title. If this performance by Josh and a defense that allowed 17 ppg couldn't get it done, who ever will?!

Sure, you can say "we're young, we'll be back a bunch in the years to come!", and maybe that's true. All I can think of is Dan Marino's quote that after reaching and losing the Super Bowl in his second season, he assumed he'd be back many times in his career, but he never returned. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.

Maybe by April I'll be ready to talk draft and think about the future. Right now, though, all I can do is stare at the wall and reflect on the fact that the Bills just blew their best opportunity at a title in 35 years, and that their perpetual lot in life seems to be stunning, improbable, epic, crushing defeats. I am numb.

[Shaw66]

2 minutes ago, KCNC said:

I get that.  It was a chorus of errors.  You could point to any one of them.   Maybe I have been through this too many times, but even with 13 seconds left, I was not even celebrating the TD.  All I could think was Mahomes + 3 TOs = sure field goal.  I just had zero confidence in the defense in crunch time last night.  I know they were tired.

Yeah, I wasn't comfortable either, in part because we've seen McDermott get overly conservative in these situations before.  

 

But think about it:  If, after the kickoff, the Bills had made a stop and held the Chiefs out of field goal range, if the game had ended with the Bills winning by three, all of Chiefs land today would be talking about all the critical mistakes Reid made down the stretch to allow the Bills to take the lead twice in the last two minutes.  And every mistake any Bill, player or coach, made would be a footnote somewhere.  

 

The coaches make hundreds of decisions every game, and a lot of them don't work out well.  No coaches make decisions that work out well 100% of the time (except last week against the Patriots!).  The fans of the losing team always can find them, and then we can call them clever things like a "chorus of errors."    What about the thousands and thousands of decisions that McDermott and his staff have made to get to the point where they have one of the very best teams in the league?   He gets no credit for those?   

 

McDermott and his defensive coaches will spend the off-season thinking about what they might have done differently, they will learn, and they will change.  That's the Bills' culture.  

 

I'm not happy today, but it doesn't make me feel any better to think about what should have been done differently.  

[Success]

3 minutes ago, Logic said:

In my opinion, this is the second worst loss in Bills history.

I still have to give Super Bowl XXV the nod for worst, simply because it was the Super Bowl.

Other than that, though? This game takes the cake for me. Worse than the Music City Miracle.

Here is why I view it as such:

1) There are games where you did the absolute best you could, but the other team just made more plays. Games you deserved to lose. Then there are games that you SHOULD have won, but in some improbable way, you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This was the latter. Bills should have won. Inexcusable.

2) The specific "13 seconds" failure is all the more astonishing and painful because our team is coached by two of the smartest defensive minds in the league. And yet, I'm convinced most 10-year-olds that have ever played Madden would've called more logical defense on those final two plays. Just brutal.

3) Daboll and Frazier are likely gone after this season. We'll probably have new (or at least somewhat) different offensive and defensive systems installed next year. Seamless transition is no guarantee. This was the last gasp of this "iteration" of the Bills. Josh Allen's big contract numbers are going to start kicking in soon, too, and it's going to get harder to retain our good players.

4) None of the teams left -- Bengals, 49ers, Rams -- were going to beat the Bills. Had the Bills gotten past the Chiefs, as they should have, they would have become Super Bowl champions. I'm certain of it. This was our year. This was the team. Josh Allen's moment to ascend to the top of the mountain and claim the "best QB in the league" title and win Buffalo its first Lombardi.

Bottom line: Josh Allen had the highest playoff quarterback rating in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE this year and was backed up by the number 1 yardage and scoring defense...and it still wasn't enough to win a title. As such, at this moment in time, it's hard for me to picture the Bills EVER winning a title. If this performance by Josh and a defense that allowed 17 ppg couldn't get it done, who ever will?!

Sure, you can say "we're young, we'll be back a bunch in the years to come!", and maybe that's true. All I can think of is Dan Marino's quote that after reaching and losing the Super Bowl in his second season, he assumed he'd be back many times in his career, but he never returned. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.

Maybe by April I'll be ready to talk draft and think about the future. Right now, though, all I can do is stare at the wall and reflect on the fact that the Bills just blew their best opportunity at a title in 35 years, and that their perpetual lot in life seems to be stunning, improbable, epic, crushing defeats. I am numb.

 

Part of me feels that way - that we would have rolled after this.

 

But I don't think we're giving the Bengals or Rams enough credit. The Rams in particular are more balanced than us.  If the Rams didn't give away 4 turnovers yesterday, their D would have basically shut down the Bucs, who I thought were the best team remaining. That Rams D-line is fierce and would have given us big problems.  

 

[Nextmanup]

2 hours ago, UKBillFan said:

Great review but your final point is spot on. So we played in one of the best play off games ever? Who gives a ****?

The same can be said of Super Bowl XXV--which I think most regarded as the best SB of all time, as of that point in time.

 

I always felt "who the F cares" about that one too.

 

 

[KCNC]

2 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

in part because we've seen McDermott get overly conservative in these situations before.

so if he's been overly conservative in these situation before, one could argue that they have NOT learned, right?  I know it's all monday morning quarterbacking and I am ill and underslept.  There are a lot of good things that came out of this year but to be so close to hosting the championship game and not get it is particularly gut-wrenching.  To quote Danny Glover "I'm getting too old for this sh**!"

[HamSandwhich]

14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

But that's not what happened. They both played equally flawless football. Given that Mahomes has been doing it 4 straight years and has made it to the AFCCG every year, tie goes to the runner.

 

Eye test says differently to me

[Buffalo Boy]

    I thought of you this morning. I’ve got 40 + years in and I know you’ve got me beat.

    I hate to say it but I start to worry. That was a golden opportunity. We blew it. They don’t come along often.

I hope Josh gets us at least one but I worry😳

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, HamSandwhich said:

Eye test says differently to me

Maybe someday they'll give out MVP awards, championships and wins for the player that looked better according to that team's fans, but until then it comes down to actual performance. Mahomes played mistake-free football and came up just as big as Allen did when he had to in coming from behind twice, and driving the field in OT to win the game. He even outgained Allen in the air and on the ground, though I fully believe Allen would have pulled even had he gotten another drive.

That sidearm throw under Rousseau was one of the sickest throws I've ever seen. The escapability that Mahomes had all night long from the pocket was amazing. We had no answer for him, and they had no answer for Allen. The situations our team found themselves in required Allen to display more heroics, but Mahomes did every time he was needed. His team just asked him to do it less.

[Buddo]

Terrific write up Shaw.

 

This really sticks in the craw.

 

In some respects, I don't think you can blame the players. (Not that you personally were)

 

The offense was plenty good enough.

 

The defense, well, there's a decent argument there, yet I would argue that they are doing what they are coached to do.

 

Simply put, we were out-coached when it mattered. In all three aspects of the game.

 

Daboll called 3 runs just after we had stopped the Chiefs in the first half, and they all went nowhere. A horrible series.

 

We punted on a 4th and 1, admittedly in our own half, but at the time, the Chiefs were likely to go down and score anyway - and they did.

 

Lots of 'hands in the air' to prevent Mahomes passing in the first half, when he was scrambling with nowhere to go. Just hit him. That one I'd call 6 of one half a dozen of the other. Players should know to nail him, yet they will have been coached to get their hands up, on a regular basis. Not going to work against Mahomes.

 

An awful decision, or bad execution, to not make the Chiefs either bring the football out, or fair catch with a greater distance to go on the last kick off in regulation. A STs howler, really, which wouldn't have been so bad if they hadn't done that sort of kickoff on a decent number of occasions already through the regular season.

 

The final vomit inducing, 'prevent' defense. Not just on one play, but two, when it hadn't worked the first time. Now, on the first instance, it's certainly possible that the players gave themselves too much 'cushion' - iirc there was another game in the last year or two where that has happened, but after calling TO, they should all have been aware exactly of what they were supposed to do.

 

It's galling.

 

Having said all of that, you don't get to see such a phenominally played game, without a lot having been done right.

 

Trouble is, to win those games, of the highest quality, you have to get more of that stuff right - and our coaches didn't.

[Helpmenow]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Boy said:

    I thought of you this morning. I’ve got 40 + years in and I know you’ve got me beat.

    I hate to say it but I start to worry. That was a golden opportunity. We blew it. They don’t come along often.

I hope Josh gets us at least one but I worry😳

I’ve got 57 years in. I thought this was going to be it. Man it’s tough

[Shaw66]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

In my opinion, this is the second worst loss in Bills history.

I still have to give Super Bowl XXV the nod for worst, simply because it was the Super Bowl.

Other than that, though? This game takes the cake for me. Worse than the Music City Miracle.

Here is why I view it as such:

1) There are games where you did the absolute best you could, but the other team just made more plays. Games you deserved to lose. Then there are games that you SHOULD have won, but in some improbable way, you snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. This was the latter. Bills should have won. Inexcusable.

2) The specific "13 seconds" failure is all the more astonishing and painful because our team is coached by two of the smartest defensive minds in the league. And yet, I'm convinced most 10-year-olds that have ever played Madden would've called more logical defense on those final two plays. Just brutal.

3) Daboll and Frazier are likely gone after this season. We'll probably have new (or at least somewhat) different offensive and defensive systems installed next year. Seamless transition is no guarantee. This was the last gasp of this "iteration" of the Bills. Josh Allen's big contract numbers are going to start kicking in soon, too, and it's going to get harder to retain our good players.

4) None of the teams left -- Bengals, 49ers, Rams -- were going to beat the Bills. Had the Bills gotten past the Chiefs, as they should have, they would have become Super Bowl champions. I'm certain of it. This was our year. This was the team. Josh Allen's moment to ascend to the top of the mountain and claim the "best QB in the league" title and win Buffalo its first Lombardi.

Bottom line: Josh Allen had the highest playoff quarterback rating in the HISTORY OF THE LEAGUE this year and was backed up by the number 1 yardage and scoring defense...and it still wasn't enough to win a title. As such, at this moment in time, it's hard for me to picture the Bills EVER winning a title. If this performance by Josh and a defense that allowed 17 ppg couldn't get it done, who ever will?!

Sure, you can say "we're young, we'll be back a bunch in the years to come!", and maybe that's true. All I can think of is Dan Marino's quote that after reaching and losing the Super Bowl in his second season, he assumed he'd be back many times in his career, but he never returned. Nothing is guaranteed in the NFL.

Maybe by April I'll be ready to talk draft and think about the future. Right now, though, all I can do is stare at the wall and reflect on the fact that the Bills just blew their best opportunity at a title in 35 years, and that their perpetual lot in life seems to be stunning, improbable, epic, crushing defeats. I am numb.

Thanks for this.   I always have disagreed with the "closing window" philosophy, and I disagree with it here.  McDermott and Allen are about continuous improvement.  Belichick never cried "woe is me" when he lost a coordinator.   I'm not worried. 

 

And I think the 13 seconds has to be understood in context.  Or, more importantly, the "number 1 scoring and yardage" narrative.   Something that I think McDermott has done wrong, and I expect he will correct it, is to build a defense that is consistent defense instead of a big-play defense.   McDermott has been very successful building a consistent defense, and consistency gives you good numbers over the long-run.   That's why he's always (except for last season) running a highly ranked defense.   It's decidedly not a big-play defense.   The problem with that is that when you need a big play with this defense, you can't dial it up.   You can just say, "Okay, JJ, or okay, Troy, or okay, Kahlil, go make a play."   So, for example, when Hardman had the big reception in overtime, it was because the Bills decided they needed a big play, and they blitzed.  They got burned.  

 

When you're talking complementary football, I think you have to pair a big-play defense with a big-play offense.   When you have an offense like the Bills have - when you have Allen, then the number one objective is to get the ball back in Allen's hands, even if that means giving up a score to do it.  Having a bend-don't-break defense tends to run the clock without your offense on the field, and it plays into the hands of the other team - they want to run clock, because it keeps the score down.  I think the Bills need a high-risk, high-reward defense.   They need a stud defensive lineman who absolutely demands double teams, and they should blitz more, all in attempts to generate big losses on plays, and turnovers.   The risk is that you give up more big plays but hey, more big plays means Allen gets back on the field faster.   (It happened last night - the Chiefs are so good on offense, they scored too fast and let Allen have the ball with a minute to go.)  

 

Obviously, so far in his career, McDermott doesn't agree with me, so he has a defense built on a different philosophy.   And it's easy to see that if that's his philosophy, then you don't blitz Mahomes, you don't even try too hard to rush him, because you want to avoid his running, and when you get down to the last 13 seconds you play really deep, because the only really, really bad thing that can happen is a TD.   

 

I get that thinking.   It isn't horrible.  However, when Josh Allen is your quarterback, I think the nature of his game demands that you reconsider your philosophy.

[muppy]

2 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Yes, numb is right.  Been a fan since the AFL Championships too.

 

I ask myself how do they come back from this?

There is always X's and O's, player personnel and coaching changes and all the other stuff to be discussed but this will

come down to their character. 

 

I will support them as a fan and hope they can do it again.  This time hopefully in Orchard Park.

 

how can they do it again? Support #17 with weapons and retain necessary OL to protect him,  make wise draft and free agent decisions, retain the strength and conditioning they already have to help ensure a healthy roster.... make strategic wise hires in the front office to replace who we did lose and use the team roster as effectively utilizing all their strengths in an attempt to reduce weaknesses..maximize excellence and  stay the course.

 

easy right?  🙂

 

m

Edited January 24, 2022 by muppy

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

 Something that I think McDermott has done wrong, and I expect he will correct it, is to build a defense that is consistent defense instead of a big-play defense.   McDermott has been very successful building a consistent defense, and consistency gives you good numbers over the long-run.   That's why he's always (except for last season) running a highly ranked defense.   It's decidedly not a big-play defense.   The problem with that is that when you need a big play with this defense, you can't dial it up.   You can just say, "Okay, JJ, or okay, Troy, or okay, Kahlil, go make a play."   So, for example, when Hardman had the big reception in overtime, it was because the Bills decided they needed a big play, and they blitzed.  They got burned.  

 

This is everything. So much focus has been put on being good in every phase of the game (and rightfully so) to get us to where we are. In order to take the next step, we need to have the big play potential on the defensive side of the ball. When you play elite offenses like KC that will give as good as they get. It doesn't really matter what your YPA or point differential is over the course of a year. They are going to score. If you can stop them when it matters - that's what determines the game. Situational football becomes so much more important.

[Shaw66]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

This is everything. So much focus has been put on being good in every phase of the game (and rightfully so) to get us to where we are. In order to take the next step, we need to have the big play potential on the defensive side of the ball. When you play elite offenses like KC that will give as good as they get. It doesn't really matter what your YPA or point differential is over the course of a year. They are going to score. If you can stop them when it matters - that's what determines the game. Situational football becomes so much more important.

Yeah, that's the point.  With the Bills' offense, you're going to outscore most teams, even if you let them have a big play here or there.   On the other hand, the teams with the really good offenses are going to take what you give them, and they're still going to hit with a big play here or there.   You'll never stop them all the time - that's what makes them a good offense.   But what you can do is smack them in the mouth once in a while.  

 

Put it a different way.  We often talk about the Belichick "take away the one thing they do best" philosophy, but we always talk about in terms the defense trying to take away something the offense does.   It's true the other way, too.  Just like teams have to think about how they're going to take away Allen's running or Diggs's receiving, the some teams have an advantage on defense by forcing the opponent to work at neutralizing an Aaron Donald or a Watt or some other guy.   When you have a big-play threat, you force the offense to narrow their game in some way. 

 

Tre'Davious White is the example.   Here's this outstanding talent, and what the Bills have done with him is blend him into the defense to make the whole defense better.   Well, that's nice, but in some ways it makes White less scary to the offense.   Rather than turn him loose on the offense, a one-man gang of sorts, playing shut-down corner all game, or roaming the field, free-lancing, his big-play capability is kept somewhat under wraps.  

 

The Bills turn Allen loose, letting him throw and run and receive.   The Bills need more of that on defense. 

[zow2]

I'll contend that as the years have clicked by,  the 4 Super Bowl losses have given the Bills more positive national notoriety than negative.  Folks are really in awe of that accomplishment, to get there 4 straight times.

 

The sad thing is all the Bills notable performances nationally are actually negatives.  Wide right, Music City Miracle, Hail Murray, 13 Seconds.

 

I will say that this year the club added a couple positives..  The perfect game vs NE and Josh Allen's performance last night.  That fact that he never got a chance to touch the ball in OT leaves his accomplishment intact.  People around the country are showering him with accolades and know that the Defense failed miserably in crunch time.

 

 

[oldmanfan]

30 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Thanks for this.   I always have disagreed with the "closing window" philosophy, and I disagree with it here.  McDermott and Allen are about continuous improvement.  Belichick never cried "woe is me" when he lost a coordinator.   I'm not worried. 

 

And I think the 13 seconds has to be understood in context.  Or, more importantly, the "number 1 scoring and yardage" narrative.   Something that I think McDermott has done wrong, and I expect he will correct it, is to build a defense that is consistent defense instead of a big-play defense.   McDermott has been very successful building a consistent defense, and consistency gives you good numbers over the long-run.   That's why he's always (except for last season) running a highly ranked defense.   It's decidedly not a big-play defense.   The problem with that is that when you need a big play with this defense, you can't dial it up.   You can just say, "Okay, JJ, or okay, Troy, or okay, Kahlil, go make a play."   So, for example, when Hardman had the big reception in overtime, it was because the Bills decided they needed a big play, and they blitzed.  They got burned.  

 

When you're talking complementary football, I think you have to pair a big-play defense with a big-play offense.   When you have an offense like the Bills have - when you have Allen, then the number one objective is to get the ball back in Allen's hands, even if that means giving up a score to do it.  Having a bend-don't-break defense tends to run the clock without your offense on the field, and it plays into the hands of the other team - they want to run clock, because it keeps the score down.  I think the Bills need a high-risk, high-reward defense.   They need a stud defensive lineman who absolutely demands double teams, and they should blitz more, all in attempts to generate big losses on plays, and turnovers.   The risk is that you give up more big plays but hey, more big plays means Allen gets back on the field faster.   (It happened last night - the Chiefs are so good on offense, they scored too fast and let Allen have the ball with a minute to go.)  

 

Obviously, so far in his career, McDermott doesn't agree with me, so he has a defense built on a different philosophy.   And it's easy to see that if that's his philosophy, then you don't blitz Mahomes, you don't even try too hard to rush him, because you want to avoid his running, and when you get down to the last 13 seconds you play really deep, because the only really, really bad thing that can happen is a TD.   

 

I get that thinking.   It isn't horrible.  However, when Josh Allen is your quarterback, I think the nature of his game demands that you reconsider your philosophy.

I posted in a Facebook forum today that I hope McD rethinks his defensive philosophy.  We lost last night because we had an aggressive offense but a passive defense.  Couldn't agree more with your take here.

[blitzboy54]

3 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

You can call last nights loss a lot of things but "humiliating" is not one of them.

 

 

I see where you are coming from but giving up the real estate they did with 13 seconds is pretty embarrassing. I find myself in an unfamiliar place of hating the head coach who has telegraphed and now proven in the toughest moments he is at his core, a coward. 

[TheCockSportif]

You are a treasure, @Shaw66, and I say this in earnest.  I opined in one of the game day threads yesterday that I was done posting here, save for Off the Wall, until the draft or next season.  It's all variable based on where things are with me going into 2022 and the Bills.  And then I forgot you and @Virgil, and how much reading your stuff means to me each week; this is even more important now that @Virgilmight be retiring his going forward.

 

In any case, I kind of shrugged my shoulders after the game yesterday then worked on a mix for this song that I'm working on, then totally crashed hard until 6am this morning.  I woke up this morning asking myself if I gave a crap about the Bills anymore.  And then I read your weekly, in-season entry, and realized that you are right.  I'm numb.  I still am.  You nailed it, as usual, and have a great offseason.  Looking forward to your contributions in 2022, as always!

[MTBill]

The game you didn't mention that always hurt me a bit - was that crazy Bronco's game - the one in Buffalo where they came back at the end and somehow managed to kick a field goal to win it - when everyone was sure they didn't have time to run it.  That thing stung.  It wasn't the playoffs or anything, but it was as bad as the "just give it to them" game in my gut.  No Goal...  Wide Right... Homerun Throwback...  13 Seconds...  All of these are like the old Wide World of Sports opening, the Thrill of (imminent) Victory, the Agony of Defeat...

 

All of that said.  I really thought we would win yesterday because our Defense would slow them down 'enough'.  Which they did a decent job of early, but seemingly could do nothing to stop them in Q4 and OT.  The look on Josh's face on the sideline after the first go ahead score.  followed by having to do it one more time...

 

AND - for the record, the OT rule is what it is.  I don't see how it would have ended any different.  Sorry.  Mahomes was unstoppable from the Bills vantage point.  I hate him every much as I hated Tom Brady.  But he was lights out better than Brady ever was last night.  And him running across the field to find Josh after the win, was pretty special - not Belicheck coming to see you in the locker room special, but pretty classy from someone I thought was classless.

 

Thanks again for your work.  You help put things in perspective for those who aren't going to games, hell I barely get to see them except playoffs and prime time games.

[HamSandwhich]

1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said:

Maybe someday they'll give out MVP awards, championships and wins for the player that looked better according to that team's fans, but until then it comes down to actual performance. Mahomes played mistake-free football and came up just as big as Allen did when he had to in coming from behind twice, and driving the field in OT to win the game. He even outgained Allen in the air and on the ground, though I fully believe Allen would have pulled even had he gotten another drive.

That sidearm throw under Rousseau was one of the sickest throws I've ever seen. The escapability that Mahomes had all night long from the pocket was amazing. We had no answer for him, and they had no answer for Allen. The situations our team found themselves in required Allen to display more heroics, but Mahomes did every time he was needed. His team just asked him to do it less.

You have opinions all the way through too, so eye test for you also then? Allen >>>> Mahomes. As much as you’d like to argue, opinions are just that, opinions and my opinion is what you see above. Mahomes is very very good, Allen is just better to me. 

[major]

4 hours ago, blitzboy54 said:

This game for me in all time Buffalo losses

 

1. Wide Right

2. 13 seconds

3. No Goal

4. Music City Miracle 

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Everything else

 

Mine:

1. Wide right

2. music city miracle

3. 13 seconds 

4. 1989 cleveland

5. Dallas,Buffalo MNF game

6. Super bowl 28

7. Super bowl 27

8. Super Bowl 26

9. Dang- this is depressing (I’ll stop now)

[Reks Ryan]

I keep catching myself saying "They won the game" or "they had it won"  out loud.   Which is weird to some of my coworkers, since I am not in WNY, and I just kind of blurt it out in the middle of a project or on video conference call. 

 

 

[Shaw66]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

 

 

Tre'Davious White is the example.   Here's this outstanding talent, and what the Bills have done with him is blend him into the defense to make the whole defense better.   Well, that's nice, but in some ways it makes White less scary to the offense.   Rather than turn him loose on the offense, a one-man gang of sorts, playing shut-down corner all game, or roaming the field, free-lancing, his big-play capability is kept somewhat under wraps.  

 

 

This got me to thinking. 

 

Micah Hyde was corner/safety in Green Bay.   How about making White a safety, to free him to make plays over the field?  Trade Poyer for picks, draft a corner in the first round, or get one in free agency.  

 

Move White all over.   He can take a good tight end, a Kelce or Kittles, man-to-man.   He can move over on plays where you want him on an island on a wideout.  He can blitz.   

 

Can he tackle as well as he needs to?

[chaccof]

5 hours ago, B-Large said:

Meh, it was an incredible bout and the Bills lost on a coin toss.... I'm about 100% confident had it been tails, we'd be excited for next week.  The OT rule is awful, and it cut short a special night.... I hope they consider changing it.

 

I feel like we're just entering our window here.... while this one is disappointing, this is a game that the organization will grow from.  Maybe they won't lose to poor teams in the regular season and hurt themselves on the playoffs by being on the road... that is a big takeaway...

 

The Chiefs have been an excellent organization for 10+ years now... this game shows we're almost there, and we will have our run and opportunites.

 

I'd rather lose like that 99/100 times that get blown out, or 20 seasons with draft threads in early December.

 

Fix what needs fixed, get ready to kick ass next season....

 

Josh is special.  He'll get a ring, no doubt.

 

 

I agree that the team has a unique window for the next couple of years.  I think it remains to be seen what this lose does to the key players and coaches that will be around.  It's a soul crushing lose and those players and coaches around next year can learn from it and come ready to kick butt to make certain the road to the SB goes through Buffalo or they can let this bring the organization down like the Music City Miracle did (anyone recall 17 years of futility?).  I hope its the former but we won't know until next September.  

[Scott7975]

3 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

But that's not what happened. They both played equally flawless football. Given that Mahomes has been doing it 4 straight years and has made it to the AFCCG every year, tie goes to the runner.

 

 

IMO Allen gets the edge.  Mahomes receivers get a lot YAC.  Allens receivers do not.  Its a bit easier when you got guys taking a 5-10 yard pass and running 10+ more yards with it.

 

KC receiver YAC 2699 (1st in the league)

Bills receiver YAC 1743 (17th in the league)

 

Allen ranks 6th in average completed air yards

Mahomes ranks 34th (there's a few guys in there that didn't play a full season but he is still bottom of the league.  Even Tua is higher)

 

Thats almost 1000 yards of difference.  Thats huge and what our offense lacks.  Our offense is entirely on Allens arm.  The guy is dropping dimes in tight coverage with hardly any YAC.  Don't get me wrong.  Mahomes has just as good an arm but its a bit easier on him.  His guys are running free all season long and then getting big YAC to boot.  I don't know if its just scheme or our guys don't really get much separation but it needs to be fixed.  Its not just our run game that pressured Josh its that Josh is expected to always make perfectly accurate tight window throws all game long.

 

All of that was apparent in full view in this playoff game. Mahomes had guys running wide open every play.  Little pitch and catch and boom the guy is gone for 20 more yards.

 

I watched boring games all weekend.  Everyone of those games had people with big separation.  TE's and WR's with 3-5 yards of space on a lot of passes.  How often do you see that happen for the Bills?  Im not talking about the check downs to Singletary either.  

 

Beasley gets passes just as he is being hit.  Knox getting passes and he has to bulldoze for a couple extra yards. Even when Diggs, Sanders, or Davis are getting balls downfield they have a step or two at best.  Sure we might get some busted coverage because a guy slipped or something once in a while but not as often as I see it happen for every other team.

 

Obviously there is a lot more into being a good QB that air yards and receivers getting YAC. Mahomes and Josh are both likely future HoF QBs and are pretty equal IMO.  I just edge Josh because I think his job is harder in this system than Mahomes is in KC's system.

 

 

On a side note... As great as a game Josh had... where was Diggs?  3 catches for 7 yards is almost criminal.

Edited January 24, 2022 by Scott7975

[Helpmenow]

33 minutes ago, major said:

Mine:

1. Wide right

2. music city miracle

3. 13 seconds 

4. 1989 cleveland

5. Dallas,Buffalo MNF game

6. Super bowl 28

7. Super bowl 27

8. Super Bowl 26

9. Dang- this is depressing (I’ll stop now)

I would add the game in 1980 versus the chargers with fergy hobbling. 

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

IMO Allen gets the edge.  Mahomes receivers get a lot YAC.  Allens receivers do not.  Its a bit easier when you got guys taking a 5-10 yard pass and running 10+ more yards with it.

 

KC receiver YAC 2699 (1st in the league)

Bills receiver YAC 1743 (17th in the league)

 

Allen ranks 6th in average completed air yards

Mahomes ranks 34th (there's a few guys in there that didn't play a full season but he is still bottom of the league.  Even Tua is higher)

 

Thats almost 1000 yards of difference.  Thats huge and what our offense lacks.  Our offense is entirely on Allens arm.  The guy is dropping dimes in tight coverage with hardly any YAC.  Don't get me wrong.  Mahomes has just as good an arm but its a bit easier on him.  His guys are running free all season long and then getting big YAC to boot.  I don't know if its just scheme or our guys don't really get much separation but it needs to be fixed.  Its not just our run game that pressured Josh its that Josh is expected to always make perfectly accurate tight window throws all game long.

 

I watched boring games all weekend.  Everyone of those games had people with big separation.  TE's and WR's with 3-5 yards of space on a lot of passes.  How often do you see that happen for the Bills?  Im not talking about the check downs to Singletary either.  

 

Beasley gets passes just as he is being hit.  Knox getting passes and he has to bulldoze for a couple extra yards. Even when Diggs, Sanders, or Davis are getting balls downfield they have a step or two at best.  Sure we might get some busted coverage because a guy slipped or something once in a while but not as often as I see it happen for every other team.

 

Obviously there is a lot more into being a good QB that air yards and receivers getting YAC. Mahomes and Josh are both likely future HoF QBs and are pretty equal IMO.  I just edge Josh because I think his job is harder in this system than Mahomes is in KC's system.

Again, that's faulting Mahomes for opportunities he didn't need because his team played better. Outside of hurdling guys, Mahomes can do everything that Allen does and has when he's needed to. He's had the best start to a career in NFL history. Brady dinked and dunked his way to a handful of Super Bowls early in his career, because he didn't need to do anything else. We saw later that he could also drop 50 TDs on a season by airing it out to Moss, Gronk, Hernandez and Welker when the situation called for that too.

At this point, it's not even really worth it to discuss who is better in a vacuum. They're both great, but Mahomes is undeniably more successful, and it's going to take significant changes to flip that because of how hard it is to get better when you're already at the top

[Scott7975]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Again, that's faulting Mahomes for opportunities he didn't need because his team played better. Outside of hurdling guys, Mahomes can do everything that Allen does and has when he's needed to. He's had the best start to a career in NFL history. Brady dinked and dunked his way to a handful of Super Bowls early in his career, because he didn't need to do anything else. We saw later that he could also drop 50 TDs on a season by airing it out to Moss, Gronk, Hernandez and Welker when the situation called for that too.

At this point, it's not even really worth it to discuss who is better in a vacuum. They're both great, but Mahomes is undeniably more successful, and it's going to take significant changes to flip that because of how hard it is to get better when you're already at the top

 

Im not trying to fault Mahomes at all.  He is one of the best in the league.  I just happen to think Allen is better in ways because he has a harder job.  

 

I agree with the last part.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

Allen was incredible.  

 

Remember when the narrative was "Allen isn't accurate, and you can't fix accuracy"?   

 

He'll be better next season.  

Let's see if we can avoid losing games we should easily have won like Jags & Steelers. We can't deny we still don't have anywhere near a pass rush to touch Mahomes. 

[Billsfan1972]

Shaw you do a great job and are an incredible fan.  Yes you don't like what I say and not sure why.

 

You seem very hesitant to ever blame coaching. However there were 13 friggin seconds left. That comes down to coaching.

 

I had friends over and was screaming did you do a pooch kick to the five 10-yard line which Bass had been very successful throughout the year doing. Then we can talk about the two plays afterwards and how badly they were botched.

 

I've been a Bills fan since 1972 and you never know when this chance will come again. Yes I'm very upset.

[BullBuchanan]

5 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

Let's see if we can avoid losing games we should easily have won like Jags & Steelers. We can't deny we still don't have anywhere near a pass rush to touch Mahomes. 

That doesn't help us beat Mahomes and the chiefs. I dont care at all about losing upset games to ***** teams early in the season. I care about being able to compete in january. You have to win enough to get there, but that's pretty much it. With there only being a single buy now, that's not the most achieveable goal, and maybe you shouldn't even want it.

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

I've been a Bills fan since 1972 and you never know when this chance will come again. Yes I'm very upset.

There's a new chance every year. Allen may not play 2 perfect games again next year, and hopefully he doesn't have to.

[jlgarsh]

4 hours ago, Stuartjohn said:

My thoughts are- They should Fire Frazier if he called the defensive plays with 13 seconds left.

Bring in Vic Fangio and have a Real #1 defense next year! Regarding  that “Paper tiger “ # 1 defense- I’m glad Not “one player made the pro bowl”-  do you think Any of them deserved it now?
This feels as bad as Music City miracle! I keep thinking  What would Bellichek  or Parcells or Bill Walsh or Jimmy Johnson done differently with 13 seconds left! I bet they would have won the game- inexcusable!

Tre White if healthy should have been a lock. 

[Bad Things]

For the first time in my life, I had to turn the game off before it finished.

I don't know exactly why, but this game was insanely stressful to watch.

It honestly got to the point, where my smartwatch started beeping, giving me a "stress warning".  What?

I took the hint, turned off the tv with 2 minutes left and took my dog for a walk.  I just had to chill out.

 

Thank God I did, because I probably would've had a heart attack if I hadn't.   Ugh.

 

Let's go Buffalo!

[Shaw66]

22 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

For the first time in my life, I had to turn the game off before it finished.

I don't know exactly why, but this game was insanely stressful to watch.

It honestly got to the point, where my smartwatch started beeping, giving me a "stress warning".  What?

I took the hint, turned off the tv with 2 minutes left and took my dog for a walk.  I just had to chill out.

 

Thank God I did, because I probably would've had a heart attack if I hadn't.   Ugh.

 

Let's go Buffalo!

Wow.  Well, we're glad you're still with us.  

 

I'll write a letter to Coach McDermott and ask him to try to make next season's games less stressful.

[RunTheBall]

The defense was the problem all game long, the coaching especially in the last 13 seconds.

 

Edmunds was absolutely abused, and I’m a fan. Their whole game plan was putting Edmunds in conflict and he didn’t make one impact play. That has to be a consideration going forward.

 

I’ve seen McD change his conservative philosophy on O, going for it twice on 4th on that first drive was balls of steel. I think he will adjust his defensive philosophy based on this devastating loss. It won’t be lost on him how piss poor the coaching was on the 13 second drive.

 

Mahomes is incredible. Josh is as well. I give Mahomes a lot of credit for seeking Josh out at the end of the game, that’s sportsmanship. 

[Reed83HOF]

4 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I haven't entered the fray to talk who's fault it was, what might have been done differently, etc.   I've seen several comments about the loss being on the coaches and how they did or did not manage the defense down the stretch.  I have a variety of thoughts about all of that, and I might talk about it more later, but for now I want to respond this idea.

 

I don't think I agree with McDermott's defensive philosophy, but this "deer in the headlights"  thing is wrong.  That's what people said about the defense when they gave up some drives in the Houston playoff game, and they completely ignored multiple stops the defense made in that game, stops that allowed the Bills to get back into the game.  

 

Last night, Hill had a humongus return late in the game, and the defense held on three downs and forced a field goal.  A huge stand. 

 

The fact that the Bills defense can't stop two of the top five offensive players in the league, at will, any time, is NOT the problem.   Did the Chiefs also have a deer in the headlights look?   They couldn't stop the Bills, either.  

 

 

Hill is the unicorn that makes them so tough to defend, his catch and run killed us, no other WR in the league can do what he did, they would have been tackled immediately. If you focus on taking him away that is where Kelce, gets a mismatch and they nail you. The rest of their pass catchers etc. are meh.