Reviewing Beane

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

it's incredible to me that the nfl community thinks beane is one of the top in his game,  has put together one of the most complete rosters in the league, and some fans still can't cope with it.  

 

It seems to be just a very vocal minority who can’t admit the obvious. 

[machine gun kelly]

Teef, because everyone wants to be an armchair QB, and say later, see I knew it.

 

This is probably over the years the 5th time I stayed what Polian said on Late Hits more than once.  He pointed out his. Career avg. for hitting on players was 57%.
 

If a guy in the HOF and known as one of the best ever self reports 57%, then he’s making the point no one bats 1000.  It just doesn’t work that way.

[Einstein]

21 minutes ago, NewEra said:

But being correct is a different story.  Again, not many on earth would agree with your answer 

 

Not many on earth would agree that Beane has been average at adding talent outside of the QB position? I dont agree. 

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I cited a lot more than that.  But you’re hung up on these two weak points cuz your whole point is quite honestly flawed and weak in the first place and you literally have nothing else to throw out. 

What other players did you cite? Subtractions?

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, teef said:

it's incredible to me that the nfl community thinks beane is one of the top in his game,  has put together one of the most complete rosters in the league, and some fans still can't cope with it.  

Multiple NFL analysts and reporters: "Beane is one of the best GMs in the business, and the Bills have one of the best rosters in the league."

Associated Press: "Beane is the 2020 NFL Executive of the Year".

All sportsbooks, in consensus: "Bills are the 2022 favorites to win the Super Bowl".

Handful of posters on this forum: "Not so fast. Remember Kelvin Benjamin?!"

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Not many on earth would agree that Beane has been average at adding talent outside of the QB position? I dont agree. 

What other players did you cite? Subtractions?

W/e floats your boat.  The titans don’t have a better roster than the Bills.  Saying it doesn’t make it true.

[FLFan]

15 minutes ago, NewEra said:

W/e floats your boat.  The titans don’t have a better roster than the Bills.  Saying it doesn’t make it true.

I am not sure how anyone has the energy to argue with trolls like this.  It is like playing whack a mole with a preprogrammed robot. Einstein he is not.  

[Doc]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

There is a name for this.

Its called 'homerism'.

 

That's literally the point of the exercise.

 

To evaluate rosters sans the QB.

 

Well for starters, the Browns have had the #1 overall pick several times.  So not a fair fight.  The Bucs and Rams have had other QBs and failed to go far in the playoffs, much less win the SB.  And the Titans had Mariota who the Bills beat. 

[NewEra]

7 minutes ago, FLFan said:

I am not sure how anyone has the energy to argue with trolls like this.  It is like playing whack a mole with a preprogrammed robot. Einstein he is not.  

Haven’t really paid much attention the board over the last few weeks,  had a lull in the action at work, figured I’d chime in on such a nonsensical comment 

[Einstein]

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Well for starters, the Browns have had the #1 overall pick several times.  So not a fair fight.  The Bucs and Rams have had other QBs and failed to go far in the playoffs, much less win the SB.  And the Titans had Mariota who the Bills beat. 

 

I dont think youre following the conversation.

50 minutes ago, NewEra said:

W/e floats your boat.  The titans don’t have a better roster than the Bills.  Saying it doesn’t make it true.

 

I'm not just saying it. That roster also beat the Bills, twice

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

I dont think youre following the conversation.

 

I'm not just saying it. That roster also beat the Bills, twice

Their current roster has never beaten the Bills once. But, make more stuff up. 

[Einstein]

11 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Their current roster has never beaten the Bills once. But, make more stuff up. 

By that logic, the current Bills roster has also beaten no-one ever. Therefore this is all conjecture.

[Milanos Milano]

1 hour ago, teef said:

it's incredible to me that the nfl community thinks beane is one of the top in his game,  has put together one of the most complete rosters in the league, and some fans still can't cope with it.  

See I’m the type of person that doesn’t conflate complete rosters with results.  Consider a great GM great when said “most complete roster” wins Super Bowls. Right now I consider the Rams and Patriots GM as better than Beane because they actually put together a roster that won Super Bowls. 

[Ya Digg?]

2 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Easy.

 

For one, the Titans. Even WITH Allen, they've beaten the Bills roster twice in a row.

Another is the Rams. Who practically have a Pro-Bowl team for a roster. 

The Buccaneers are another, and the Browns are close (their QB held them back more than helped them).

 

. 

 

.

Actually think about these rosters-outside of Henry, where are the titans better? What do the Rams have that the Bills don’t? The Bucs were terrible (with essentially the same roster) before Brady got there-when Brady “retired” that ship was sinking FAST!

I applaud you for sticking to your guns, but you keep saying people are being homers or ignoring what you are saying when you are paying absolutely no attention to the counter arguments people are making to you. He had messed up, everyone is agreeing with you on this, but you’re not acknowledging that he has hit on more than just Allen

[Einstein]

10 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

Actually think about these rosters-outside of Henry, where are the titans better? 

 

RB as you mentioned, O-Line (though this may change with Saffold coming to Buffalo), D-Line (Simmons is the second best defensive player in the league behind Donald). Their safety duo of Hooker and Byard is just as good as ours but significantly younger. Their LB’s are Dupree, Landry and Cunningham. Really good group.

 

There is a reason they have beat us twice. It’s not luck. That’s a stacked roster.

[Einstein]

18 minutes ago, Ya Digg? said:

What do the Rams have that the Bills don’t? 

 

Rams have better WR’s (Kupp is top 3 and Robinson is top 10). O-line (one of the best in the NFL though losing Whitworth stings), D-Line (Aaron Donald, do I have to say more?), CB’s (Ramsey and Hill) and LB’s (Leonard Floyd, Bobby Wagner).

 

They really do have a pro bowl roster.

[Royale with Cheese]

17 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

RB as you mentioned, O-Line (though this may change with Saffold coming to Buffalo), D-Line (Simmons is the second best defensive player in the league behind Donald). Their safety duo of Hooker and Byard is just as good as ours but significantly younger. Their LB’s are Dupree, Landry and Cunningham. Really good group.

 

There is a reason they have beat us twice. It’s not luck. That’s a stacked roster.

LOL…Simmons is better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett???  Simmons is probably not even in the top 20 in the league lol.

 

Their DL is not better.  Their defensive backs are not better.  Our WR and QB is better.

 

Great, they got us on RB and maybe LB.  
 

 

11 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Rams have better WR’s (Kupp is top 3 and Robinson is top 10). O-line (one of the best in the NFL though losing Whitworth stings), D-Line (Aaron Donald, do I have to say more?), CB’s (Ramsey and Hill) and LB’s (Leonard Floyd, Bobby Wagner).

 

They really do have a pro bowl roster.

Allen, White, Von Miller, Diggs, Poyer, Dawkins and Hyde are also Pro Bowl level players.

 

Sounds like the Rams are going undefeated huh?

Edited July 5, 2022 by Royale with Cheese

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL…Simmons is better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett???  Simmons is probably not even in the top 20 in the league lol.

 

Their DL is not better.  Their defensive backs are not better.  Are WR and our QB is better.

 

Great, they got us on RB and maybe LB.  
 

 

Allen, White, Von Miller, Diggs, Poyer, Dawkins and Hyde are also Pro Bowl level players.

 

Sounds like the Rams are going undefeated huh?

 

We have gone from arguing that Beane is not really a very good GM and is just lucky he has Josh, to maybe we are not THE VERY BEST roster in the league. I can live with that!  

[Milanos Milano]

26 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL…Simmons is better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett???  Simmons is probably not even in the top 20 in the league lol.

 

Their DL is not better.  Their defensive backs are not better.  Our WR and QB is better.

 

Great, they got us on RB and maybe LB.  
 

 

Allen, White, Von Miller, Diggs, Poyer, Dawkins and Hyde are also Pro Bowl level players.

 

Sounds like the Rams are going undefeated huh?

If you guys truly believe our roster is better than most in the league, then why are we underperforming? Why haven’t we won Super Bowls while other less talent rosters are? Is it coaching? Is McD our weak link holding us back? 

16 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We have gone from arguing that Beane is not really a very good GM and is just lucky he has Josh, to maybe we are not THE VERY BEST roster in the league. I can live with that!  

Isn’t the GM’s job to field the very best roster in the league as to win Super Bowls? Clearly we aren’t doing enough then by that logic right? I’m not saying to fire Beane, but obviously based on results, we aren’t maximizing our potential due to not being the most talented roster. 

[NewEra]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

By that logic, the current Bills roster has also beaten no-one ever. Therefore this is all conjecture.

Oh my bad.  Now that you explain this using logic, I see my mistake.  You’re right, the titans have a better roster than the Bills

and the Jags have a better roster too.  They beat us last year.  Or does a team have to beat us twice in a row to qualify?

[Einstein]

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Simmons is better than TJ Watt

 

Yes.

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

and Myles Garrett???  

 

Yes.

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Simmons is probably not even in the top 20 in the league lol.

 

Top 3. Very underrated by casual fans.

 

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Their DL is not better.

 

Yes it is.

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Their defensive backs are not better.  

 

Yes they are. 

 

Especially with White coming off his injury.

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Our WR and QB is better.

 

Agreed.

 

42 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Great, they got us on RB and maybe LB.

 

And O-Line, and D-Line, and CB’s and tied with safeties.

 

 

7 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Oh my bad.  Now that you explain this using logic, I see my mistake.  You’re right, the titans have a better roster than the Bills

 

 

The point being that all we have to go on is previous seasons. Guessing on how new players will adapt and affect rosters is silly.

[Einstein]

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

We have gone from arguing that Beane is not a good GM

 

You may be talking about another poster, but to be clear, I never said that. 

 

36 minutes ago, Augie said:

and is just lucky he has Josh

 

And I definitely did not say that.

 

This whole forum would really benefit from one semester of reading comprehension.

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

I dont think youre following the conversation.

 

What are you talking about?  I just gave you examples of how those teams you listed weren't that good with their previous QBs.

 

And in this hypothetical, I assume you are replacing each team's QB with the same QB.  Who do you envision? 

[Royale with Cheese]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Yes.

 

 

Yes.

 

 

Top 3. Very underrated by casual fans.

 

 

 

 

 

Yes it is.

 

 

Yes they are. 

 

Especially with White coming off his injury.

 

 

Agreed.

 

 

And O-Line, and D-Line, and CB’s and tied with safeties.

 

 

 

The point being that all we have to go on is previous seasons. Guessing on how new players will adapt and affect rosters is silly.

LOL 

Thanks for using PFF as your “evidence”

 

Well here’s another PFF ranking…Best NFL Rosters.

Bills #1

Titans #20

 

Well, which PFF rankings are true?

 

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-roster-rankings-all-32-teams-2022-strengths-weaknesses-x-factors-every-starting-lineup

[Doc Brown]

6 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Easy.

 

For one, the Titans. Even WITH Allen, they've beaten the Bills roster twice in a row.

Another is the Rams. Who practically have a Pro-Bowl team for a roster. 

The Buccaneers are another, and the Browns are close (their QB held them back more than helped them).

I'm surprised you spelled Einstein right when creating your account.

[gobills404]

3 hours ago, Einstein said:

Yes.

Yes.

Top 3. Very underrated by casual fans.

Yes it is.

Yes they are. 

Especially with White coming off his injury.

Agreed.

And O-Line, and D-Line, and CB’s and tied with safeties.

The point being that all we have to go on is previous seasons. Guessing on how new players will adapt and affect rosters is silly.

QB - Bills. No debate.

RB - Titans. No debate.

WR - Bills. No debate.

TE - Bills. Unless Hooper starts playing like he did in Atlanta.

O Line - Bills. We finished higher in pass block win rate and identical in run block win rate. Our line was also night and day better the last 6 games with Bates and we stole their pro bowl LG AND their starting RT (Quessenberry).

D Line - Toss up. We finished with a better pass rush win rate, better pressure rate, and a nearly identical sack rate. Titans had a much better run stop win rate. I think the addition of Von will put us over the top but I'll wait until I see it.

LB - Bills. No debate. Zach Cunningham and David Long? Really?

CB - Bills. I'd take Tre White with 2 torn ACLs over Fulton. Molden is a pretty good slot but Taron Johnson is elite. Elam is completely unproven but so are Farley and McCreary.

S - Toss up. I'd give the Bills the slight edge based purely off the last few years, but Hyde and Poyer ain't getting any younger.

 

IMO Bills have the better roster and it's not even close.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2022 by gobills404

[Einstein]

49 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

I'm surprised you spelled Einstein right when creating your account.

 

Sigh. The conversation has devolved to this point. 

[longtimebillsfan]

Just 5 years ago we had a 17 year playoff drought.   Now we have made the playoffs in 4 of the last 5 years.

 

Are you kidding me???

 

This thread is moronic.

Edited July 7, 2022 by longtimebillsfan

[Doc Brown]

10 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

Sigh. The conversation has devolved to this point. 

Do you really think the Titans roster is better than ours?

[HappyDays]

5 hours ago, Einstein said:

Robinson is top 10

 

In the year 2022 you just called Allen Robinson a top 10 WR. Put down the hot take machine gun and take a breath.

[Einstein]

8 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

In the year 2022 you just called Allen Robinson a top 10 WR. Put down the hot take machine gun and take a breath.

 

 

Remind me in 6 months.

12 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Do you really think the Titans roster is better than ours?

 

Outside of QB, yes.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL…Simmons is better than TJ Watt and Myles Garrett???  Simmons is probably not even in the top 20 in the league lol.

 

Their DL is not better.  Their defensive backs are not better.  Our WR and QB is better.

 

Great, they got us on RB and maybe LB.  
 

 

Allen, White, Von Miller, Diggs, Poyer, Dawkins and Hyde are also Pro Bowl level players.

 

Sounds like the Rams are going undefeated huh?

Jeffery Simmons is definitely a machine 

 

I think he is one of the best defensive lineman in the league… not best or top 3 … but top 10 interior lineman

[GunnerBill]

12 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

No he’s wrong.  Beane put his stamp all over that playoff team from the moment he got here after the draft.  Beane signed people, cut people, traded away people, and traded for people all before and during the season.  
 

So Beane has been a big part of all 4 playoff seasons the last 5 years.  He just refuses to look at facts.

 

Who did Beane sign that made an impact on 2017? He traded for Kelvin Benjamin who absent 1 play vs the Colts we all agree was a miss. 

 

He made key moves in 2017 that set up what was to come with his trades in the summer that is 100% true so he was already having an impact but the team that made the playoffs in 2017 was a combination of McDermott's guys and what they inherited. 

 

So I do tend towards the 2017 season not really being in Beane's column. And this isn't just a Beane position. I took the same view of 2013 when Whaley took over for Nix post draft. To me that season rightly should sit with Nix. I know that isn't the way the NFL looks at it officially but my take on GMs has always been their W-L should only include seasons where they ran FA and the draft the previous spring. 

[Beerball]

10 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Rams have better WR’s (Kupp is top 3 and Robinson is top 10). O-line (one of the best in the NFL though losing Whitworth stings), D-Line (Aaron Donald, do I have to say more?), CB’s (Ramsey and Hill) and LB’s (Leonard Floyd, Bobby Wagner).

 

They really do have a pro bowl roster.

You die on this hill Einstein.

[BufBills83]

Are we really arguing the Titans have a better roster than the Bills?  We're supposed to be Superbowl favorites here.  Get out of here with this nonsense.  How does anyone figure the Titans are better?

[Dopey]

11 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

You may be talking about another poster, but to be clear, I never said that. 

 

 

And I definitely did not say that.

 

This whole forum would really benefit from one semester of reading comprehension.

To your last sentence:

This whole forum?!?!? Really?!?! You're grouping everyone into this idea you have that we can't comprehend your words.

I take offense and say, go screw yourself!

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

NFL rosters really are pretty even. QB position is the difference.

[Watkins101]

On 1/24/2022 at 3:34 AM, IronMaidenBills said:

We have not drafted enough high end talent. 

 

Edmunds rd 1

Basham rd 2

Epenesa rd 2

Ford rd 2

Moss rd 3 

Oliver rd 1 

Rousseau rd 1 

 

Have all underperformed their draft statuses thus far IMO. Especially Ford and Moss. 

 

I expect more from Edmunds, Oliver, and Rousseau given their rd 1 status. 

On the flip side, Allen, Taron Johnson, Davis, Milano, and Teller all outperformed their draft slots by a considerable margin.

[Alphadawg7]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Who did Beane sign that made an impact on 2017? He traded for Kelvin Benjamin who absent 1 play vs the Colts we all agree was a miss. 

 

He made key moves in 2017 that set up what was to come with his trades in the summer that is 100% true so he was already having an impact but the team that made the playoffs in 2017 was a combination of McDermott's guys and what they inherited. 

 

So I do tend towards the 2017 season not really being in Beane's column. And this isn't just a Beane position. I took the same view of 2013 when Whaley took over for Nix post draft. To me that season rightly should sit with Nix. I know that isn't the way the NFL looks at it officially but my take on GMs has always been their W-L should only include seasons where they ran FA and the draft the previous spring. 

Have to very respectfully disagree with you here Gunner.  Beane traded away Watkins, Darby, and Dareus.  Make no mistake about it, a big part of our playoff run in 2017 had to do with a shift in culture.  Coming off a 7 win season, changing the locker room, culture, and mindset can easily result in a few more wins.  It’s why teams fire coaches all the time and change front offices,  because they believe someone else can get more out of the roster and locker room.  
 

And both McD and obviously Beane contributed to that in different ways.  Beane jettisoning guys who were considered part of our core just a year prior that didn’t fit what we wanted to do as a team 100% impacted both the locker room and how the guys came together.  
 

Plus, he made the decisions on the final 53…and decisions like I said that saw us trade what was previously seen as our best offensive player and our young starting DB that was considered a promising player previously.  Then what was at one time considered our best defensive player in Dareus during the season.  
 

And no one disagrees KB overall was a miss, but…that trade did unquestionably help us make the playoffs which was the entire point of the trade when we found ourselves surprisingly in the running for a playoff spot to potentially break the streak.  And that also shows the guys on the field that Beane wasn’t just giving up and cleaning house, but showing he’s willing to put a wrinkle into his rebuild strategy to support and help those guys win now.  Which is something that also goes a long way into the rebuilding of a culture.  
 

So for me, I don’t care that Beane didn’t participate in the draft, he was in here right after the draft and he begun shaping the roster and culture in a lot of ways that surprised people and in ways Whaley would NOT have.  So for anyone to say Beane had no impact on that season is just not something I can agree with and completely over looks the entire role of a GM, which is a lot more than just the draft. 
 

Just the sheer fact he did things Whaley was not ever going to do like trade Watkins, Darby, and Dareus is enough of a reason to see that Beane had some fingerprints on that team.  I mean his moves that year set the entire foundation for our culture and our future.  

Edited July 6, 2022 by Alphadawg7

[todd]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

What would you say the Bills top 2 position groups are?

Safety, qb, wr, DL, LB. Why stop at two?

[todd]

17 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Smart choice not answering that.

Here’s the deal: Your opinion of Beane is flawed by any measure. It’s a borderline trolling crusade. 
 

Fact is, Beane is the architect of a roster that is extremely successful. Period. Any dumbass “what if he didn’t draft Allen” scenario is stupid, because he did and has surrounded him with talent on both sides of the ball. 
 

Along with that, he has partnered with other parts of the organization to make sure players are developed and successful. This is just excellent leadership. It is irrefutable.