AP exclusive: Bills propose new 60k seat stadium by (update - 2025)

[red hots]

1.4bn for an open air stadium with only 60k capacity in Orchard Park.

 

Someone tell me we aren't getting ripped off!? Lucas Oil Stadium with a 70k capacity in a Downtown location, attached to the Convention Center and a retractable roof cost 720m dollars - 858m with inflation in 2019.

 

This is WNY, not Manhattan. Surely the cost of getting a lot less for 542m more is nothing but madness? My brain is about to melt at how the maths are adding up.

 

Also, if they wanted to stay in the suburbs, Amherst was far more preferable with UB football as a potential additional tenant and a potential metro rail extension.

 

Saying it now, the whole deal is its being presented in these articles is *****. Reduced capacity, no value for the tax payer, no additional events, still the same outdoor stadium in the snow belt. I actually would rather stay in the Ralph as is than this. 

 

 

 

[unbillievable]

Wait until they reveal the PSL price... then we'll  be wondering if there are 60k fans willing to pay it.

 

[The Jokeman]

Just now, Paup 1995MVP said:

Wasn't Rich Stadium's capacity 80,300 or so back in the day?  We should be able to sell out 70,000 every week in the modern day.

Not necessarily the population in 1990 was 954,883 and today it's 886,477. 

[unbillievable]

2 minutes ago, red hots said:

1.4bn for an open air stadium with only 60k capacity in Orchard Park.

 

Someone tell me we aren't getting ripped off!? Lucas Oil Stadium with a 70k capacity in a Downtown location, attached to the Convention Center and a retractable roof cost 720m dollars - 858m with inflation in 2019.

 

This is WNY, not Manhattan. Surely the cost of getting a lot less for 542m more is nothing but madness? My brain is about to melt at how the maths are adding up.

 

Also, if they wanted to stay in the suburbs, Amherst was far more preferable with UB football as a potential additional tenant and a potential metro rail extension.

 

Saying it now, the whole deal is its being presented in these articles is *****. Reduced capacity, no value for the tax payer, no additional events, still the same outdoor stadium in the snow belt. I actually would rather stay in the Ralph as is than this.

 

New York is more expensive than Indiana?

[MAJBobby]

7 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Seems they will add a few years to the current lease.  The lease dollars could help maybe with some of the public financing.  Maybe?

I thought about that, but after releasing the Safety report (specifically on the upper deck) would that be feasible?

[GunnerBill]

Once they make a decision I need to book to come over to a game at the Ralph before they knock it down. I gotta come at least once before we move into whatever modern state of the art thing they build. 

[red hots]

3 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

New York is more expensive than Indiana?

That was what I'm thinking is somehow the answer despite the much different cost of doing business and living in Upstate v NYC.

 

It stinks to me.

Edited August 31, 2021 by red hots

[Monty98]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

Not necessarily the population in 1990 was 954,883 and today it's 886,477. 

Not just Buffalo's population to take into account, market area north of the border is expanding.

 

This is most likely the first legit proposal that has been leaked to the public. Looking to gather support/see where fans/sponsors sit on certain issues and what the state is willing to concede to get them more of what they want

[HOUSE]

No need to rush the project, 6 years is reasonable 😬

[MAJBobby]

7 minutes ago, red hots said:

1.4bn for an open air stadium with only 60k capacity in Orchard Park.

 

Someone tell me we aren't getting ripped off!? Lucas Oil Stadium with a 70k capacity in a Downtown location, attached to the Convention Center and a retractable roof cost 720m dollars - 858m with inflation in 2019.

 

This is WNY, not Manhattan. Surely the cost of getting a lot less for 542m more is nothing but madness? My brain is about to melt at how the maths are adding up.

 

Also, if they wanted to stay in the suburbs, Amherst was far more preferable with UB football as a potential additional tenant and a potential metro rail extension.

 

Saying it now, the whole deal is its being presented in these articles is *****. Reduced capacity, no value for the tax payer, no additional events, still the same outdoor stadium in the snow belt. I actually would rather stay in the Ralph as is than this. 

 

 

 

Actually it is 67K.  And it was a retrofit on a building as well, this would be a new build 

 

As in falling apart?

Edited August 31, 2021 by MAJBobby

[scuba guy]

39 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

At 1st, I thought this was an artists rendition of the new stadium, but not one seat here is alee from the elements.

It is the current stadium 

 

I thought the same thing had to open the picture up to see

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Wait until they reveal the PSL price... then we'll  be wondering if there are 60k fans willing to pay it.

 

 

The "average" cost of a seat in Buffalo is $74.  It will probably almost double and then add PSLs.

It will price out a large group of lower income fans and that is just the way it is everywhere else in the NFL.

 

Rabid fans will still attend but it will affect casual attendees.  Currently a lot of away team fans come to Buffalo because it's so cheap.

[The Jokeman]

3 minutes ago, Monty98 said:

Not just Buffalo's population to take into account, market area north of the border is expanding.

 

This is most likely the first legit proposal that has been leaked to the public. Looking to gather support/see where fans/sponsors sit on certain issues and what the state is willing to concede to get them more of what they want

You're probably right but honestly I hate the idea of a stadium in Orchard Park and even moreso when it's not domed.  I feel a downtown multi purpose venue would better serve the community.

Edited August 31, 2021 by The Jokeman

[MAJBobby]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

You're probably right but honestly I hate the idea of a stadium in Orchard Park and even moreso when it's not doomed.  I feel a downtown multi purpose venue would better serve the community.

And that Cost is 1.9B without the infrastructure requirements.

 

So 1.4B in Orchard Park - Lesser impact on Public Money

 

1.9B plus in Downtown - Increased impact on Public money 

Edited August 31, 2021 by MAJBobby

[Doc Brown]

Just put some kind of roof over it and 60k is fine.  Of course they won't because they're idiots.

[The Jokeman]

Just now, MAJBobby said:

And that Cost is 1.9B without the infrastructure requirements.

 

So 1.4B in Orchard Park

 

1.9B plus in Downtown

I get money is part of it but damn sakes why build another stadium out in OP and only use it for football? I mean we're making the same mistakes we made when built Rich Stadium  Instead build something that could serve the city as a stadium, maybe bring some shopping to downtown or act as a replacement for the convention center etc. 

[red hots]

Metlife Stadium - 82k seats, 230 suites (1.6bn value 2010, 1.9bn value 2020)

New Bills stadium - 60k seats, 60 suites (1.4bn value 2021)

 

Metlife is also quite a bit closer to Manhattan than the proposed stadium is to DT Buffalo. 

 

 

[ColoradoBills]

6 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I thought about that, but after releasing the Safety report (specifically on the upper deck) would that be feasible?

 

You know it's something to consider but I think it will be fine.  I know a lot of people have been on the Pegula's about a lot of this but they

were told they needed a new stadium by the NFL when they bought the Bills.  They dragged their feet as long as they could which I think

was a good thing.  I'm fairly confident the Highmark will be fine until the new one is built.

 

I would venture a guess the "safety" report was more of a "need to build a new one soon" more than an imminent concern. 

[unbillievable]

Put a dome with wind flaps that can control the weather conditions inside.

[DrDawkinstein]

1 minute ago, The Jokeman said:

I get money is part of it but damn sakes why build another stadium out in OP and only use it for football? I mean we're making the same mistakes we made when built Rich Stadium  Instead build something that could serve the city as a stadium, maybe bring some shopping to downtown or act as a replacement for the convention center etc. 

 

It's a very disappointing, short-sighted, small town, bush league plan. Agreed.

 

As the only team that actually plays in NYS, and the fact that there is no way the politicians will let the Bills leave, the Pegulas should press the state much harder to pony up what is needed to get an awesome new stadium downtown, a bunch of new surrounding bars/restaurants/commercial space, and the added infrastructure to support it (expand 190, add ramps, add rail from airport to downtown).

 

I dont care if they say it will cost $3B. NYC is good for it. Make it happen.

[unbillievable]

We also have to consider that they just spent 20 million on a new training facility; that they probably don't want to abandon.

[Bangarang]

$1.4 billion for a 60k seat open air stadium? That sounds like too much money.

[Sherlock Holmes]

1 hour ago, Utah John said:

Who's got the cash to fill up those 60 suites?  I realize that's a big source of money for other teams but will that work in Buffalo?

Me and my crew needed somewhere new to sit...

[The Jokeman]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

$1.4 billion for a 60k seat open air stadium? That sounds like too much money.

Welcome to Covid where building material prices are higher than they've been in years toss in new minimum wage in NY State etc. etc. 

[nucci]

57 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Superbowl venue for 2028

 

requires minimum 70K seats

[Ethan in Cleveland]

46 minutes ago, BuffaloFan68 said:

I thought a big part of getting a new stadium was so that we might some day host a SB but it would have to be a domed stadium because there is no way they would ever have a SB in an uncovered stadium in Feb in Buffalo.  Guess, the whole SB thing is out the window. 

Go Bills!!!!!

It never was in the window

[DrDawkinstein]

8 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

We also have to consider that they just spent 20 million on a new training facility; that they probably don't want to abandon.

 

No need to. Train in suburbs, play downtown. Most teams do that.

[ColoradoBills]

8 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

And that Cost is 1.9B without the infrastructure requirements.

 

So 1.4B in Orchard Park - Lesser impact on Public Money

 

1.9B plus in Downtown - Increased impact on Public money 

 

I hear you Major.  One thing confusing about the article is this.  Did you read as the initial 1.6B for the stadium in OP going down to 1.4B and then

commenting about 1.9B for downtown as 300M more to build the current proposal OR 500M more to build downtown?

 

The only thing about that is IF the infrastructure money can be secured with a lot of $s from the Federal Infrastructure Bill just passed,

well the downtown looks a lot better.   Just bringing this up because it seems all politics, politics, politics right now.

[TEC]

Quote

At issue is how quickly a deal can be approved, and how the construction costs would be split between the team and taxpayers. The Bills have already said team owners Terry and Kim Pegula are committed to sharing part of the cost, but have not identified how much.

 

The expectation is the state and county will be asked to cover more than 50% of the project, raising concerns about the potential for taxpayer funding.

 

^^This is the important part, $700 Million minimum from taxpayers. Let's see if the stadium scam wheel keeps spinning. 

[Florida Bills Fanatic]

Bills sold out even when the team stunk.  It's about driving up demand, increasing seat prices, and selling seat licenses.  Gotta pay for everything.

[nucci]

Buffalo was never going to get a SuperBowl

[MAJBobby]

4 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

I hear you Major.  One thing confusing about the article is this.  Did you read as the initial 1.6B for the stadium in OP going down to 1.4B and then

commenting about 1.9B for downtown as 300M more to build the current proposal OR 500M more to build downtown?

 

The only thing about that is IF the infrastructure money can be secured with a lot of $s from the Federal Infrastructure Bill just passed,

well the downtown looks a lot better.   Just bringing this up because it seems all politics, politics, politics right now.

Yeah I did I think that initial 1.6B was at the 70K seat mark, because they mentioned cut seats to get into 1.4B.  

 

I do still think they are trying to release enough leverage out there to get the stadium down town, and why we are still talking 2027.  But cannot commit at ALL without infrastructure being addressed first.  Saying we are committed to DT without guarantees on infrastructure is a failure from jump.

 

We are talking about lets say 50% public money on the stadium, That is almost 1B downtown and then what another 500M-1B in public money for infrastructure.  That is essentially untenable in this market.

Edited August 31, 2021 by MAJBobby

[SF Bills Fan]

57 minutes ago, ColoradoBills said:

 

Like 120.  But a lot are small.  I'm assuming the 60 they are talking about are large high luxury suites.

Without more details we are all guessing.

Yep- there are a lot of suites, but some of them are those dugout suites etc. The main suites in the current stadium are very small and I am sure they don't have the amenities that you get in the new stadiums. If you are going to attract corporate fat cats from the area and Toronto you need real luxury suites. The bonus is that the team keeps all the revenue from those. I know Dallas has 400 suites and some go for 6 figures a game. That is a different business climate though.  One idea that I think would be great is to put some suites down at field level and a club/bar near the ramp so people can watch the players run out to the field. 

[ColoradoBills]

1 minute ago, MAJBobby said:

Yeah I did I think that initial 1.6B was at the 70K seat mark, because they mentioned cut seats to get into 1.4B.  

 

I do still think they are trying to release enough leverage out there to get the stadium down town, and why we are still talking 2027.  But cannot commit at ALL without infrastructure being addressed first.  Saying we are committed to DT without guarantees on infrastructure is a failure from jump.

 

I totally agree.  It's just interesting to watch this start to unfold.  I do tend to believe that fans/taxpayers/voter are sometimes manipulated

to get what others want in the first place.  Where things "start" and where they "finish" is always interesting to me.  LOL.

[loyal2dagame]

I was expecting and still hold hope for 65k seats

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said:

Bills sold out even when the team stunk.  It's about driving up demand, increasing seat prices, and selling seat licenses.  Gotta pay for everything.

 

Lol, maybe the opener but not the entire season. Lots of empty seats in those lean years.

 

I hope they incorporate some open "fan club" sections where people can eat, drink, mill about while watching the game. That's a new thing you see in baseball parks.

Edited August 31, 2021 by PromoTheRobot

[ColoradoBills]

2 minutes ago, SF Bills Fan said:

Yep- there are a lot of suites, but some of them are those dugout suites etc. The main suites in the current stadium are very small and I am sure they don't have the amenities that you get in the new stadiums. If you are going to attract corporate fat cats from the area and Toronto you need real luxury suites. The bonus is that the team keeps all the revenue from those. I know Dallas has 400 suites and some go for 6 figures a game. That is a different business climate though.  One idea that I think would be great is to put some suites down at field level and a club/bar near the ramp so people can watch the players run out to the field. 

 

I couldn't agree with you more.  It is the main reason for a new stadium wanted by the NFL in my opinion.

[MAJBobby]

Just now, ColoradoBills said:

 

I totally agree.  It's just interesting to watch this start to unfold.  I do tend to believe that fans/taxpayers/voter are sometimes manipulated

to get what others want in the first place.  Where things "start" and where they "finish" is always interesting to me.  LOL.

Agree just look at this thread.

 

No No we dont want another open air in OP.  

 

Why isnt there a roof in DT, Why are we only getting 60K..

 

Soon that 65K seat DT with a roof at the cost of 1.9B looks better.  Add thte 500M-1B in infrastructure upgrades,  and you are getting a voting public on board with a 1B dollar plus public layout for the stadium.

[Virgil]

How do these PSL’s work?

[ColoradoBills]

3 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

Agree just look at this thread.

 

No No we dont want another open air in OP.  

 

Why isnt there a roof in DT, Why are we only getting 60K..

 

Soon that 65K seat DT with a roof at the cost of 1.9B looks better.  Add thte 500M-1B in infrastructure upgrades,  and you are getting a voting public on board with a 1B dollar plus public layout for the stadium.

 

Definitely not saying this WILL happen the way we just said but it seems it COULD head that way and fans/taxpayers seem to

"get a deal".  What if all of sudden the Perry Projects are sold to this endeavor for $1 like Palidino wanted.  All speculation on my part but

2027 is a long way away.