America's future. O say, what do you see?

[Irv]

11 minutes ago, Governor said:

I think term limits actually make the situation worse. Then you end up with opportunists trying to enrich themselves on day 1, since they know they can only serve for a certain amount of time and don’t care what happens.

 

We have to move to a public financing system so officials don’t have to spend 95 percent of their time fundraising for their reelection and can actually serve the people in their districts. I would propose expanding House terms to 4 years and abolishing the Senate altogether.

 

If you didn't have to worry about getting re-elected, you wouldn't have to fundraise.  You wouldn't have to toe the party line on every matter.  You might actually be able to work with the other side without fear of repercussions.      

 

I also think committee assignments should be random.  That way you wouldn't get Cheney'd just for opposing the party line.  

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Irv

[JaCrispy]

5 minutes ago, Governor said:

I think term limits actually make the situation worse. Then you end up with opportunists trying to enrich themselves on day 1, since they know they can only serve for a certain amount of time and don’t care what happens.

 

We have to move to a public financing system so officials don’t have to spend 95 percent of their time fundraising for their reelection and can actually serve the people in their districts. I would propose expanding House terms to 4 years and abolishing the Senate altogether.

I wouldn’t mind trying a 2-3 term limit for both House and Senate members...Seems to work well for presidents, maybe it could do the same for Congress...

 

I’m also interested in seeing congressional salaries cut in half...they should be there to serve, not to enrich...

 

And I’m open to hearing arguments for public funding for candidates running for office...

 

 

[Governor]

3 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

If you didn't have to worry about getting re-elected, you wouldn't have to fundraise.  You wouldn't have to toe the party line on every matter.  You might actually be able to work with the other side without fear of repercussions.      

It just invites corruption. Get in, make a few changes that helps yourself, then dip out.

 

Term limits sounds good on paper, but it wouldn’t play out well once everyone adjusts to it.

[Governor]

5 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

I wouldn’t mind trying a 2-3 term limit for both House and Senate members...Seems to work well for presidents, maybe it could do the same for Congress...

 

I’m also interested in seeing congressional salaries cut in half...they should be there to serve, not to enrich...

 

And I’m open to hearing arguments for public funding for candidates running for office...

 

 

Yeah, I’d be open to term limits as long as they aren’t too short. I don’t know where the sweet spot would be.

[Irv]

14 minutes ago, Governor said:

It just invites corruption. Get in, make a few changes that helps yourself, then dip out.

 

Term limits sounds good on paper, but it wouldn’t play out well once everyone adjusts to it.

 

C'mon man!  You don't think there is corruption now?  How did Hunter become a multi-millionaire?  Also, don't you think legislators like Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell have too much power.  Term limits would strip that away so there's not four people running the entire Federal Government.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by Irv

[RochesterRob]

  The world is going to get run over by the technology it has created in the last 30 years plus what is going to be released in the next 20 years.  Our social structure is designed as such that we are obligated to spend on average 8 hours per day engaged in earning money so we can have food, clothing, shelter, etc..  Not perfect but it kept most of society in balance emotionally among other things.  Now technology threatens to up end that social structure.  People who can't adapt to new technology or new skills will become isolated perhaps leading to anti-social behavior resulting in a spike in crime.  I expect that some people will be outright left behind in a new world where menial skills become minimally important.  What did I read recently in terms of a 3D printer capable of producing a complete home.  Won't need carpenters, roofers, etc. and those are the professions that have people that do not readily adapt to jobs requiring more advanced skill sets.  This will all be an issue first in advanced nations such as the US.  

[Governor]

8 minutes ago, Irv said:

 

C'mon man!  You don't think there is corruption now?  How did Hunter become a multi-millionaire?  Also, don't you think legislators like Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell have too much power.  Term limits would strip that away so there's not four people running the entire Federal Government.

 

 

All I’m saying is….be careful what you wish for on term limits.

 

Now, if we’re talking about Chuck Grassley and people like that, then I get it. You shouldn’t be in there that long. These people have accumulated HUGE campaign war chests and can’t be beaten.  If we removed the money first. then I’d get behind other changes.

[Motorin']

3 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

When you have educators teaching that America is a bad place, that white people are the devil, and that blacks are condemned to an infinite future of oppression because they just aren’t good enough, that’s gonna divide some people...

 

That my friend, is a completely made up misinterpretation... Because Sean Hannity says so... 

[Governor]

22 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  The world is going to get run over by the technology it has created in the last 30 years plus what is going to be released in the next 20 years.  Our social structure is designed as such that we are obligated to spend on average 8 hours per day engaged in earning money so we can have food, clothing, shelter, etc..  Not perfect but it kept most of society in balance emotionally among other things.  Now technology threatens to up end that social structure.  People who can't adapt to new technology or new skills will become isolated perhaps leading to anti-social behavior resulting in a spike in crime.  I expect that some people will be outright left behind in a new world where menial skills become minimally important.  What did I read recently in terms of a 3D printer capable of producing a complete home.  Won't need carpenters, roofers, etc. and those are the professions that have people that do not readily adapt to jobs requiring more advanced skill sets.  This will all be an issue first in advanced nations such as the US.  

UBI is the only way forward. I think Congress knows that already. It will start when there isn’t enough FT work for people. I don’t see any other way unless there’s some huge breakthrough that creates 100 million new jobs.

 

They already laid the groundwork with PUA(pandemic unemployment) and the child tax credit. Those programs will lay dormant and then be expanded when they’re needed.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Governor

[Niagara Bill]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

It is surprising to me that a question on the future of our country still bring Trump as the main response, not the current president. I person think we will have a country that starts healing quickly because people who only get there news from the MSM are becoming less and less. I think those that use more sources will be more aware that 90% of Americans are good people and we will not allow the 10% hurt us further.

trump is the symbol, not the cause. A candidate based in individual greed and with his insulting style could never have been elected in 50 yrs ago. Greed has overtaken the upper middle class. Drugs have given the poor a way to seek riches. 

Since the 1980s Wall Street moved past measuring success of stocks and the companies they represent and based the market on only their potential future, creating artificial wealth with no product produced. STOCK PRICE BECAME THE MOST IMPORTANT MEASURE OF CEOS IN PERFORMANCE OF A COMPANY. rewards for stock price were greater than performance. All smoke and mirrors in many cases. Money is the only goal. 

Yes 90% are good, but there is a rot happening. 10% can bring it down. For example in Germany the Party of Hitler was only 5% of the entire population. Not to say there is anything like that going on in the US, but just an illustration. 

[RochesterRob]

5 minutes ago, Governor said:

UBI is the only way forward. I think Congress knows that already. It will start when there isn’t enough FT work for people. I don’t see any other way unless there’s some huge breakthrough that creates 100 million new jobs.

 

They already laid the groundwork with PUA(pandemic unemployment) and the child tax credit. Those programs will lay dormant and then be expanded when they’re needed.

  Who determines when there is not enough work?  Has that not been an issue for quite a long time now?  UBI does not address basic human behavior including the desire to have more economically than those around you.  I fear that there will be a growing number of malcontents in society.  Couple that with someone's misguided attempt to initiate environmental programs by restricting access to powered vehicles or environmental controls in a person's living quarters.  Still going to need an effort/reward system to satisfy those who want more than you.  

[Tiberius]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

While Trump didn’t always help with his rhetoric, I don’t think the division was started by him...Trump was the symptom- a reaction to a divide that started taking place long before Trump got in office...

 

When you have educators teaching that America is a bad place, that white people are the devil, and that blacks are condemned to an infinite future of oppression because they just aren’t good enough, that’s gonna divide some people...it’s very dark and not very encouraging, to say the least...

 

I just don’t like the direction we are heading at all...I miss the 80s/90s...This “new normal” sucks!

He jumped on the back of a crooked horse and rode it to the circus. Fox News proved you can say anything, if you say it enough, and Republican voters will believe it. Trump walked into a perfect situation for a pathologically lying, bigoted, grievance nurturing, self-pitying know-nothing to ride into the storm. 

[Governor]

4 minutes ago, RochesterRob said:

  Who determines when there is not enough work?  Has that not been an issue for quite a long time now?  UBI does not address basic human behavior including the desire to have more economically than those around you.  I fear that there will be a growing number of malcontents in society.  Couple that with someone's misguided attempt to initiate environmental programs by restricting access to powered vehicles or environmental controls in a person's living quarters.  Still going to need an effort/reward system to satisfy those who want more than you.  

Greed and hating your neighbor for having things you don’t have is definitely a problem in this country. I recognized that as a small child. 
 

I live by the idea that when my neighbor is doing well, I’ll likely be doing well also. I’m a huge minority in that kind of thinking.

[Wacka]

1 hour ago, JaCrispy said:

Unfortunately, one party rule is not gonna good for anyone...(see Nazi party, or Chinese Communist Party)...

Or the DNC😀

[Orlando Tim]

55 minutes ago, Niagara Bill said:

trump is the symbol, not the cause. A candidate based in individual greed and with his insulting style could never have been elected in 50 yrs ago. Greed has overtaken the upper middle class. Drugs have given the poor a way to seek riches. 

Since the 1980s Wall Street moved past measuring success of stocks and the companies they represent and based the market on only their potential future, creating artificial wealth with no product produced. STOCK PRICE BECAME THE MOST IMPORTANT MEASURE OF CEOS IN PERFORMANCE OF A COMPANY. rewards for stock price were greater than performance. All smoke and mirrors in many cases. Money is the only goal. 

Yes 90% are good, but there is a rot happening. 10% can bring it down. For example in Germany the Party of Hitler was only 5% of the entire population. Not to say there is anything like that going on in the US, but just an illustration. 

The 1980s was the time of junk bonds and the S and L scandal. The 1990s brought the tech bubble and the start of the housing bubble, we always have had to watch for greed. The in your face style is correct but FDR was very in the face of his opponents but the media was on his side so he was brave not antagonistic. As for the Nazi comparison, our govt does not allow someone who is appalling to 75% of the population win a presidency, which is what happened in Germany.  

52 minutes ago, Governor said:

Greed and hating your neighbor for having things you don’t have is definitely a problem in this country. I recognized that as a small child. 
 

I live by the idea that when my neighbor is doing well, I’ll likely be doing well also. I’m a huge minority in that kind of thinking.

Most conservatives think that way. Democrats are the jealous of others wealth types. 

[Tiberius]

1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:

  The world is going to get run over by the technology it has created in the last 30 years plus what is going to be released in the next 20 years.  Our social structure is designed as such that we are obligated to spend on average 8 hours per day engaged in earning money so we can have food, clothing, shelter, etc..  Not perfect but it kept most of society in balance emotionally among other things.  Now technology threatens to up end that social structure.  People who can't adapt to new technology or new skills will become isolated perhaps leading to anti-social behavior resulting in a spike in crime.  I expect that some people will be outright left behind in a new world where menial skills become minimally important.  What did I read recently in terms of a 3D printer capable of producing a complete home.  Won't need carpenters, roofers, etc. and those are the professions that have people that do not readily adapt to jobs requiring more advanced skill sets.  This will all be an issue first in advanced nations such as the US.  

So we will be able to make everrthyng we need and no one will have to work. That might be good 

[Westside]

1 minute ago, Tiberius said:

So we will be able to make everrthyng we need and no one will have to work. That might be good 

We’ll always need someone to do the laundry

[njbuff]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

Trump  seriously divided this country just like the Civil War did . The future is not good with extreme partisanship . 

Long before Trump, but hey don’t let that stop your continuous bvllshit narrative.

[unbillievable]

Elon Musk had an interesting interview about the role of technology replacing ALL human jobs.

 

A.I. would replace management

Robots would replace labor.

The final result is that everything would be FREE.

 

What happens when everything in the world costs nothing because Robots took over every industry.

 

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by unbillievable

[TSOL]

I see alot of debt and that is troubling me. I really hope they chill on that 3.5 trillion infrastructure bill, I think that it is wildly reckless and irresponsible because inflation is bad enough as it is without a gargantuan new debt. If they pass that bill it will be harmful to the future of the country and it will cement Biden as Jimmy Carter on steroids 

 

[Big Blitz]

3 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

Elon Musk had an interesting interview about the role of technology replacing ALL human jobs.

 

A.I. would replace management

Robots would replace labor.

The final result is that everything would be FREE.

 

What happens when everything in the world costs nothing because Robots took over every industry.

 

 

 

 

We become slaves without purpose.  

 

 

He's not wrong about what can happen to the workforce which is constantly looking for cheap labor

 

We handed them a golden opportunity with the sham Covid response.  

 

 

But he's wrong about everything being free - if that's what he said.  

 

Resources are finite.  

 

Nothing is ever free.  

[RochesterRob]

11 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

So we will be able to make everrthyng we need and no one will have to work. That might be good 

  It will not be good for a sizable portion of Americans.  The ones that count on work to tire themselves out so they don't beat their wives, abuse animals, or molest 10 year old kids.  Those kinds of crimes know no boundaries in terms of political affiliation.  We are not wired genetically to go from taking most of the time we are awake just to have the basics such as it was 100 years ago to have unlimited free time and yet be fed, sheltered, etc..

[unbillievable]

8 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

We become slaves without purpose.  

 

 

He's not wrong about what can happen to the workforce which is constantly looking for cheap labor

 

We handed them a golden opportunity with the sham Covid response.  

 

 

But he's wrong about everything being free - if that's what he said.  

 

Resources are finite.  

 

Nothing is ever free.  

 

The idea was that no human would be able to make money.

Either we make all products free, or give everyone a UBIncome.

 

The only way to unite our political system, is to replace politicians with robots.

 

THe scary part is that Musk (among others) said that it WILL happen in our lifetime. That's how fast the technology is advancing.

Edited July 14, 2021 by unbillievable

[unbillievable]

12 minutes ago, TSOL said:

I see alot of debt and that is troubling me. I really hope they chill on that 3.5 trillion infrastructure bill, I think that it is wildly reckless and irresponsible because inflation is bad enough as it is without a gargantuan new debt. If they pass that bill it will be harmful to the future of the country and it will cement Biden as Jimmy Carter on steroids

 

...Not to mention that nothing in that bill has anything to do with rebuilding infrastructure. It's all money for social programs.

 

[B-Man]

5 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

 

...Not to mention that nothing in that bill has anything to do with rebuilding infrastructure. It's all money for social programs.

 

 

 

See Infrastructure thread

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

4 hours ago, Governor said:

We have to start somewhere. The entire political system is broken. That’s how you end up with a Matt Gaetz.

Correct, we have to start somewhere.  I'm all for what you proposed earlier, but nothing can realistically change as long as districts are drawn in such a way to allow the radicals on both sides to, A. Get  voted in, and B. Have virtually unchallengeable job security.  
 

Gerrymandering is the root of that problem, and the incumbents sure as heck aren't going to voluntarily correct it.

 

So that leaves it to us to either resist all 'feel-good' urges and stop voting the fringe idiots into power, or we need a 3rd, moderate, party to really take hold.  
 

It's a steep ***** mountain for a nation accustomed to Coke vs. Pepsi.  

[unbillievable]

1 minute ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

Correct, we have to start somewhere.  I'm all for what you proposed earlier, but nothing can realistically change as long as districts are drawn in such a way to allow the radicals on both sides to, A. Get  voted in, and B. Have virtually unchallengeable job security.  
 

Gerrymandering is the root of that problem, and the incumbents sure as heck aren't going to voluntarily correct it.

 

So that leaves it to us to either resist all 'feel-good' urges and stop voting the fringe idiots into power, or we need a 3rd, moderate, party to really take hold.  
 

It's a steep ***** mountain for a nation accustomed to Coke vs. Pepsi.  

 

Everyone has their idea on how to divide districts. It's ALL subjective.

SO, what's the logical solution to Gerrymandering? Have a computer divide the land into fractal patterns?

 

 

[Warcodered]

I think a big part of what's been left out of this thread is the world isn't going to pause and wait for us to get our ***** together, China is a significant threat that will absolutely take advantage of our chasing our own tail.

[RiotAct]

Hooray for our side.

[SoCal Deek]

IMHO The United States is at a tipping point. As I've posted in other threads, all the rest of this chatter is just that...chatter.  We are now gripped in a death match struggle between collectivism and individualism. It is the root cause of everything else (climate change, globalism, CRT, voting laws, health care, etc.). I'm going to be really interested to see which side wins....but make no mistake, this is NOT the Republicans against the Democrats as many old-schoolers on here would love to frame it.

[frostbitmic]

The hate and division in this country is growing rapidly, bad things are going to continue happening at a rapid pace, civil war part II isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

Soon whites will be the minority in this country, that'll be interesting.

 

.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

The hate and division in this country is growing rapidly, bad things are going to continue happening at a rapid pace, civil war part II isn't out of the realm of possibility.

 

Soon whites will be the minority in this country, that'll be interesting.

 

.

Say what?  And what systemic laws will be authored by People of Color?  Laws that allow discrimination?  The Laws we have now already don't allow it.

[Irv]

With the exception of the predictable jokers, this has actually been a good thread with some well thought out ideas.  

[Frat-Train]

1 minute ago, Irv said:

With the exception of the predictable jokers, this has actually been a good thread with some well thought out ideas.  

Agreed.  Proof that good conversation can happen here.  I’ve lurked on this side for a few months watching these guys tear each other apart.  But it’s really just the same 4-5 posters that do it intentionally.  Really glad to see some civility here.  Thank you, everyone!

[716er]

Thousands of dead anti-vaxxers, millions of Covid long haulers, and mass migration due to climate change.  

 

Politics eventually takes a back seat when the above is beyond obvious.

Edited July 14, 2021 by 716er

[BringMetheHeadofLeonLett]

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

Everyone has their idea on how to divide districts. It's ALL subjective.

SO, what's the logical solution to Gerrymandering? Have a computer divide the land into fractal patterns?

 

 

This is not a head-scratcher.  Sure, quick and simple- pass a law requiring all portions to be within a minimum and maximum percentage of x miles of an agreed upon central district point.  Voters in a series of fringe/overlapping blocks can vote to join District A, or District B.  Districts will vary in size (x) based upon population density.  

 

 

B743A3EF-0B97-458B-979E-662B07A370ED.webp

[snafu]

4 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Unfortunately, one party rule is not gonna good for anyone...(see Nazi party, or Chinese Communist Party)...

 

...Cuba, Venezuela, Iran.

 

To me, things work fine the way the system is set up.  Sure, the peripheral things like political lobbyists, and mega corporations, and media bias, and internet social engineering exist, but things like that always existed.

 

Republicans complained that nothing got accomplished when their party held the Executive and majorities in the House and Senate.  Democrats are complaining about the same thing now.  That, to me, is a good sign that things can't go off the rails too far one way or the other. Nothing REALLY changes and Democrats that want to change the rules don't like that.  Don't forget that there's the invisible power that voters have over politicians -- political backlash and getting rejected in the next election.

 

One big and ugly difference between the two parties is that lately when Democrats don't get their way through the system that's set up now, they call to change the rules to make success inevitable (Electoral College, Supreme Court packing, Filibuster).    The political class doesn't want to upset their cash/power cow.  But things will change drastically and for the worse if these proposals to amend the existing rules are put in place.

 

 

1 hour ago, unbillievable said:

 

...Not to mention that nothing in that bill has anything to do with rebuilding infrastructure. It's all money for social programs.

 

 

New Unfunded Entitlements, not just social programs.

 

Edited July 14, 2021 by snafu

[Governor]

1 hour ago, BringMetheHeadofLeonLett said:

Correct, we have to start somewhere.  I'm all for what you proposed earlier, but nothing can realistically change as long as districts are drawn in such a way to allow the radicals on both sides to, A. Get  voted in, and B. Have virtually unchallengeable job security.  
 

Gerrymandering is the root of that problem, and the incumbents sure as heck aren't going to voluntarily correct it.

 

So that leaves it to us to either resist all 'feel-good' urges and stop voting the fringe idiots into power, or we need a 3rd, moderate, party to really take hold.  
 

It's a steep ***** mountain for a nation accustomed to Coke vs. Pepsi.  

Have you ever seen Jim Jordan’s district? You should take a look. It’s hilarious.

[Big Blitz]

Jeremy White retweeted this the other day:

 

 

 

Public opinion and action is determined by "scrolling through" the Twitter comments.  Yep they totally speak for society.  LOG OFF!!  Stop giving these useless "people" (or bots) any attention.  

 

My point being.....stop living in a fake social media cocoon and think that what you read or fake trending there is indicative of the real world and it all needs "fixing."

 

The partisan anger and Twitter usage chart since 2010 has a stunning parallel side by side rise.  

 

 

 

 

 

Lololol what if....now bare with me here......that all the white racists (that aren't bots) DO NOT have jobs.  

 

Assuming white people work.......That's very......not woke.  He needs more diversity training.

 

Responses like this and the climate it's creating, everyone is a fake.  No one going to want to offend anyone ever.  Never saying what they really think.  It's literally the Black Mirror Episode Nosedive out there.  

 

I'd like to know what all white neighborhood Mr. O'Connell lives in - ok I shouldn't assume he's racist because he's white. 

 

But wait....my CRT training says I should assume this.  Now I'm confused.    

 

 

Anyway, we're all going to be free from work soon anyway.  Soooooo........how will we ever shame these great villains in history into oblivion?  

[Chef Jim]

This is nothing new. We've been a polarized country from day one.  If you remember there was this "thing" in the mid 19th century that demonstrated how polarized we are.  It's just 24/7 news cycle and social media that has it in our faces all day every day.   I'm not worried.