Chris Sims says that Gred Rousseau and Boogie Basham are on this top 5 draft bust list

[muppy]

10 minutes ago, Giuseppe Tognarelli said:

"It's something unfavorable about the Bills, so it must be clickbait. I'm too fragile to handle anything but glowing praise about my team and every one of its players."

its not so much bashing this guys opinion about players its certainly his right...but to openly state they are presumed failures after not even a snap of training camp or season I reiterate what I think of this article pfffttt

[GunnerBill]

23 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Enough with the clickbait argument. Not everything we disagree with is clickbait.

 

Simms doesn't operate that way. He wants to be a GM some day, that's what he's working towards. Clickbait will not help him. He does disagree with the common wisdom a pretty fair amount. But he never denies it later or says he's sure of it. He simply says what he feels. Plenty of room to disagree with him. He's been on target pretty well with QBs, even when he's not taking a popular stance. A bit less so with non-QBs, but he's still pretty smart.

 

I'm hopeful but not convinced on both guys. He could easily be right. Or the folks, yourself included, who disagree could just as easily be right.

 

My problem personally is that I can see it either way. Drives me crazy. Beane and the Bills are smart and good drafters. But not perfect, nobody is. I just don't know, myself.

 

 

 

He absolutely was very strongly a Josh believer far before last season. Even back to his rookie year.

 

While I agree with almost all of this I'd be surprised actually if Simms is gunning for a GM job. This same FMIA piece alludes to him quitting coaching after one year with New England because he didn't enjoy the grind and missed his kids (and I have heard it from other sources as well that he really suffered with exhaustion after the fact). Admittedly his kids are older now but I wonder if Simms really wants the grind. He has a great job he has seen how well media worked out for his dad, I suspect he is content in the media. He has forged a good reputation for himself in that game without the pressure and the stress and the hours of a general manager. 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Mr. WEO]

Lol the Chris Simms love fades fast 

[BADOLBILZ]

 

Rousseau is a very high ceiling prospect.......I am a big supporter of the pick.......but it was not a "safe" pick.

 

You can go broke in the NFL draft just trying to make a profit, though.

 

The NFL truly escalated into a passing league with the rules changes in 2010..........and before that the Bills had spent about half of all of their first round picks on defensive backs(in a running league) and running backs (when they were a dime-a-dozen).

 

They nailed a ton of those picks..........but often struggled to fill the more difficult to fill positions.

 

Long term you are better off investing that first round pick in a high ceiling talent at a premium $ position............which is what they did with Rousseau and Basham and Epenesa.

 

Said it many times.......the Bills played their first playoff game in 17 years in Jacksonville in January 2018 and in that game the only one of their first round picks on the field was the newest one,  Tre White.    The 2017 team was proof that you can be a playoff team without making successful first round picks every year.........the object should be getting potential franchise cornerstone, $20M/yr type players with early picks so you can be a legit SB contender.

[LABILLBACKER]

Sims should stick to his specialty. I don't expect either to be Bruce nor do I expect them to be Maybin busts. They'll contribute and be decent players.

[DCbillsfan]

Taking Rousseau definitely has an element of risk.  As others have said, he only played one season and had 15.5 sacks.  If he had two seasons with those numbers, he wouldn't have lasted as long as he did.  

 

All draft picks have some element of risk.  Rousseau has freakish length and seems like a good kid.  I trust McD and his staff in coaching up Rousseau.

[HappyDays]

I like that Chris Simms is willing to put himself out there. I don't always agree with his opinions and he certainly isn't always right, but he explains himself well.

 

I think what he is missing with Rousseau is the reportedly high work ethic. Everyone agrees Rousseau is a project and was not a complete player in his one year starting. McDermott and Beane are betting on him to develop.

 

It's a little boring and safe to pick bottom of the 2nd round players as potential busts. After the first 50 picks or so, especially in a relatively weak draft like this one, every pick has major flaws in their game. The Bills aren't banking on Basham becoming an elite pass rusher. If he makes it as a rotational starter this year, that would be a plus.

 

I think Toney will bust, not because he lacks talent (I was extremely high on him as a potential Bills pick a few months ago), but because he is a head case with major questions about his character. The more you read about him he just seems like a weird guy that isn't going to put football first. I don't know how much Chris Simms weighs that sort of thing in his analysis, but I would bet on a person like Rousseau over a person like Toney 10 times out of 10.

Edited July 5, 2021 by HappyDays

[BADOLBILZ]

25 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

While I agree with almost all of this I'd be surprised actually if Simms is gunning for a GM job. This same FMIA piece alludes to him quitting coaching after one year with New England because he didn't enjoy the grind and missed his kids (and I have heard it from other sources as well that he really suffered with exhaustion after the fact). Admittedly his kids are older now but I wonder if Simms really wants the grind. He has a great job he has seen how well media worked out for his dad, I suspect he is content in the media. He has forged a good reputation for himself in that game without the pressure and the stress and the hours of a general manager. 

 

 

 

Everyone knows that scouts aren't paid a lot............well, GM's aren't getting $20M per year either.........more like $2M-$3M...........(though the Pegula's have a history of paying way over market on occasion like the $25M deal to Rex and the $5M per they gave that soccer coach to be their hockey coach).

 

 

Simms grew up in a wealthy family........and made some pro money and has a cushy job........that GM kinda' money for that GM kinda' stress isn't as attractive as it would be for a guy who worked himself up thru the ranks. 

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Everyone knows that scouts aren't paid a lot............well, GM's aren't getting $20M per year either.........more like $2M-$3M...........(though the Pegula's have a history of paying way over market on occasion like the $25M deal to Rex and the $5M per they gave that soccer coach to be their hockey coach).

 

 

Simms grew up in a wealthy family........and made some pro money and has a cushy job........that GM kinda' money for that GM kinda' stress isn't as attractive as it would be for a guy who worked himself up thru the ranks. 

 

Haha agreed. But that Ralph guy was never a soccer coach. He was the Russ Brandon figurehead type at Southampton. He served as their Chairman, they never let him near the coaching. 

 

That said it sounds like he was never much of a hockey coach either 🤣

[thurst44]

4 hours ago, costrovs said:

I'm feeling pretty confident about Rousseau. I remember when we drafted him, people on this board were like, 'oh all his sacks were coverage sacks, that doesn't count.' Or something to that effect. Really?!? That's funny because that's perfect for when McD runs his cover 3 and only has 4 people on the line and doesn't blitz a 5th player.  One of the best quotes from Sean when he was talking about Rousseau after we drafted him was "you don't just luck into 15.5 sacks."

Agreed! The flipside of the whole he's a raw player with only one year at his position is that he was second to Chase Young (just one QB takedown behind) in sacks in the whole country the first year he ever played that position. 

[Billy Claude]

Pre-draft, Rousseau was regarded as a high ceiling, low floor type of prospect so it is hardly surprising that he would be on some people's most likely to bust list.

 

Also putting the next to last first rounder on his most likely to bust list is hardly a good way to get clicks.  Much more effective click-bait if Simms picked someone who was drafted in the top ten. i

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Just now, Billy Claude said:

Pre-draft, Rousseau was regarded as a high ceiling, low floor type of prospect so it is hardly surprising that he would be on some people's most likely to bust list.

 

Also putting the next to last first rounder on his most likely to bust list is hardly a good way to get clicks.  Much more effective click-bait if Simms picked someone who was drafted in the top ten. i

 

It's click-bait because

1) the Bills were in the AFC championship game and pretty clearly needed better QB pressure to go further. 

So 2nd-guessing their efforts in that regard is news

 

2) Brandon Beane just won several awards as the Bills GM, including Sporting News Executive of the Year and PFWA Executive of the Year.

So 2nd-guessing his top-two draft picks is "edgy"

 

The question is: how does a GM with limited cap $$ and drafting at #30 improve at a premium position?  He likely got out-bid for any FA in whom he had interest.  The obvious answer seems to me:

 

1) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceiling low-floor FA like Efe Obada

 

2) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceilng low-floor draft prospects like Rousseau and Basham.

 

 

 

 

[White Linen]

We're not the lucky ones he was right about Allen - he is.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Not a Rousseau fan, just dont see that explosiveness  off the snap from him, gonna have to do a lot of scheming for him.

 

I like Basham better but dont think he will be great , just solid.

 

 

[Utah John]

The Bills have not done a good job evaluating DL personnel.  I think they grabbed Epenesa, Rousseau, and Basham and hoped that at least one of them will pan out to be a top-level player.  It's like playing three bingo cards at once.  There are no guarantees with drafted players, so let's load up and see what develops.  We really need only one of these guys to excel.  If two or three do, well that will be great, but they really need at least one to be a strong player.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

18 minutes ago, Utah John said:

The Bills have not done a good job evaluating DL personnel.  I think they grabbed Epenesa, Rousseau, and Basham and hoped that at least one of them will pan out to be a top-level player.  It's like playing three bingo cards at once.  There are no guarantees with drafted players, so let's load up and see what develops.  We really need only one of these guys to excel.  If two or three do, well that will be great, but they really need at least one to be a strong player.

 

Lots of hype around Epenesa this spring from the coaches about how he transformed his physique and play on the field. Hopefully that translates to games this fall.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Buffalo Barbarian

[starrymessenger]

I like what little I’ve seen of Rousseau’s gametape. I think he will gain a lot of leverage from using his length. He’s not Bruce Smith but I think he will find ways to make himself an unwelcome guest in the opponents backfield and disruptive in defending both the running and passing games. Basham I have no opinion on but clearly Bills had him high on their board. 

I don’t expect either of these guys to be more than bit players this year. Basham may be able to contribute more because he is big enuf to play now. Rousseau really needs to bulk up. I get that he’s 6/6 but I saw him recently standing next to Calais Campbell. He looked like a guy with one stripe on his pajama.

[Patrick Duffy]

Just now, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Lots of hype around Epenesa this spring from coaches about how he transformed his physique and play on the field.

 

 

Yeah that's the talk. Also the INT he got off Josh and took it for a TD I believe? I'm pretty excited to see for myself.

[BillsfaninSB]

Easy to label Greg as a future bust. Anyone could predict him and feel justified about it.  That was built-in with the pick and the Bills know it.

 

I hope I’m wrong but don’t love the selection.   Still can’t believe the Bills skipped on Jenkins or Moore. 

 

 

[Allen2D̶i̶g̶g̶s̶TBD]

The draft is a crapshoot. Busts are even more common at the pass-rusher position and half the guys taken in the first two rounds will be completely ineffective at the NFL level.

 

Rousseau and Basham both have the physical gifts to be successful, now it's all about work ethic. McDermott will make them earn every rep they get. After seeing how sparingly he played Epenesa last year, I wouldn't be shocked if they each get about 20% of the snaps in their rookie year. The only way that number gets significantly higher is if Hughes/Addison get injured or traded, or possibly if we use them as interior rushers on 3rd downs.

 

If they get 10 sacks combined this season I would be very happy.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Allen2Diggs

[Boxcar]

7 hours ago, todd said:

Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/

Oh noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Billy Claude]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's click-bait because

1) the Bills were in the AFC championship game and pretty clearly needed better QB pressure to go further. 

So 2nd-guessing their efforts in that regard is news

 

2) Brandon Beane just won several awards as the Bills GM, including Sporting News Executive of the Year and PFWA Executive of the Year.

So 2nd-guessing his top-two draft picks is "edgy"

 

The question is: how does a GM with limited cap $$ and drafting at #30 improve at a premium position?  He likely got out-bid for any FA in whom he had interest.  The obvious answer seems to me:

 

1) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceiling low-floor FA like Efe Obada

 

2) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceilng low-floor draft prospects like Rousseau and Basham.

 

 

 

 

 

Sorry I just don't see it.

 

I define click-bait as saying something outrageous that the author does not believe in, solely to generate traffic to their website, for example, anything that Skip Bayless says.  I don't see how this particular instance meets this criteria.

 

(1) Almost by definition a high ceiling, low floor, developmental prospect is going to have a higher bust probability.  It doesn't mean its a bad pick, just a riskier one.  In any case, it is not then surprising that this pick will be on some people's list of likely busts.  So if someone was soley trying to generate clicks, I don't think they would have picked Rousseau.

 

(2) I don't think that Beane has reached such an exalted position that any criticism of him will automatically draw attention -- maybe five years from now but now now.  I find it difficult to believe that Simms put Rousseau on his list simply because he was picked by Brandon Beane.

 

I am not saying Simms put a great deal of thought into his list, nor whether I feel that Rousseau is or is not a good pick, simply that I don't think it meets my definition of click-bait.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Billy Claude

[Doc Brown]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

That’s funny. When Simms talks glowingly about our qb, everyone loves him. But when he criticizes Rousseau and Basham, everyone feels negatively about him. Can’t really have it both ways. 

Him being an ex quarterback and being proven correct on some evaluations of QB draft classes over the last few years makes his takes on QB's more relevant than most imo.  Although I think he falls victim to falling in love with dual threat quarterbacks but that's just his preference.

 

I wouldn't discount both these picks being busts.  A majority of Bills fans and experts praised Whaley for drafting Lawson and Ragland who both were disappointments.  Beane's draft history on the defensive line hasn't really produced much with Oliver or Epenesa yet.  However, it's far more likely at least one of them (Rosseau or Basham) becomes an above average starter.  Chris Simms hasn't changed my opinion of them though.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Doc Brown

[Capco]

7 hours ago, todd said:

Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/

 

Here are the relevant snippets for those who don't/can't click the link:

 

Gregory Rousseau, DE, Rd 1, Pick 30, Bills. “To me, he’s totally a measurables guy. I don’t know how you can look at the film and see a top-30 pick. You’d see times where he’d wind up with a sack because someone ran right into him. There wasn’t a sense that his opponents were worried about him.”

 

Carlos Basham, DL, Rd 2, Pick 29, Bills. “I’m going to have some people mad at me, huh? I’m not picking on Buffalo. Actually, I’m not picking on anyone; I want them all to be successful. But I have to say that Basham might be the ultimate boom or bust project in the whole draft. He’s strong. He’s quick. Then you turn on the film and say, ‘What’s going on? You’re too big and strong to be blocked by some of the guys who are blocking you.’ The film doesn’t say that he’s a great player. But Buffalo has good coaches. Maybe they’ll figure out a way to use him that I can’t see.”

[DCofNC]

Well, pretty much everyone drafted is a potential bust, especially guys you take for a premier position at the bottom of the draft.  I can’t say either guys is who I would have picked at those spots, but I’m hopeful they got it right.

[Don Otreply]

We can not expect every talking head to have the same take on our draft picks as our FO does, what’s his take on the SB teams that drafted after us and took pass rushers? That would be a good question to ask Simms…,  being that all top draft picks are a bust potential, this is hardly news, its kinda captain obvious stuff when it comes right down to it…, 

Edited July 6, 2021 by Don Otreply

[Mr. WEO]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It's click-bait because

1) the Bills were in the AFC championship game and pretty clearly needed better QB pressure to go further. 

So 2nd-guessing their efforts in that regard is news

 

2) Brandon Beane just won several awards as the Bills GM, including Sporting News Executive of the Year and PFWA Executive of the Year.

So 2nd-guessing his top-two draft picks is "edgy"

 

The question is: how does a GM with limited cap $$ and drafting at #30 improve at a premium position?  He likely got out-bid for any FA in whom he had interest.  The obvious answer seems to me:

 

1) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceiling low-floor FA like Efe Obada

 

2) take a chance on a couple of raw, high-ceilng low-floor draft prospects like Rousseau and Basham.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 

Simms turning into a legendary master baiter.

[JaBu]

9 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There are not many of his takes on that list I agree with to be honest. I'm with him on Dyami Brown and Tyson Campbell. I was higher than the consensus on both of those guys. I am also with him on Asante Samuel being a but but not really for the same reasons. I think Samuel gets lost in zone and actually with his speed I feel better about saying to him "hey just go run with a guy". Other than that... not much we agree on. I'm not that high on Basham but I kinda feel the opposite to Simms' "boom or bust" assessment. I think Basham has a reasonable floor but a reasonably mediocre ceiling. So even where we might have similar views on players I get there quite differently to him. 

 

I consider Basham’s potential as better than mediocre - more as a Phil Hansen caliber player. That is, not elite but dependably steady. What are you factoring on for the mediocre ceiling call?

[Utah John]

3 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

Lots of hype around Epenesa this spring from the coaches about how he transformed his physique and play on the field. Hopefully that translates to games this fall.

 

 

 

 

Yep, I've seen that too, and I hope it turns out to be true.  I think he got sideways last year by losing too much weight before the season started.  This year he has regular coaching and guidance.

[RobbRiddick]

I feel betrayed. I'm cancelling my Chris Simms jersey

[Doc]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

He absolutely was very strongly a Josh believer far before last season. Even back to his rookie year.

 

While he may have been, I personally didn't read a lot of Simms' stuff until this past season.  And it's still all his opinion.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

Sorry I just don't see it.

 

I define click-bait as saying something outrageous that the author does not believe in, solely to generate traffic to their website, for example, anything that Skip Bayless says.  I don't see how this particular instance meets this criteria.

 

(1) Almost by definition a high ceiling, low floor, developmental prospect is going to have a higher bust probability.  It doesn't mean its a bad pick, just a riskier one.  In any case, it is not then surprising that this pick will be on some people's list of likely busts.  So if someone was soley trying to generate clicks, I don't think they would have picked Rousseau.

 

(2) I don't think that Beane has reached such an exalted position that any criticism of him will automatically draw attention -- maybe five years from now but now now.  I find it difficult to believe that Simms put Rousseau on his list simply because he was picked by Brandon Beane.

 

I am not saying Simms put a great deal of thought into his list, nor whether I feel that Rousseau is or is not a good pick, simply that I don't think it meets my definition of click-bait.

 

So you have a personal definition of click-bait that this doesn't fit.

Cool.

 

What you said that I was responding to was:

"Also putting the next to last first rounder on his most likely to bust list is hardly a good way to get clicks.  Much more effective click-bait if Simms picked someone who was drafted in the top ten. "

 

Nothing in there about "click bait" being "something outrageous that the author does not believe in"

 

Looked a lot like the more standard definition, "something to generate traffic to their website", and that you were arguing that predicting a top-10 pick to bust was a more effective strategy.  I disagree and explained why.

 

[Rigotz]

11 hours ago, todd said:

Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/

“this could impact the Bills for years” is a little dramatic, don’t you think?

 

Teams miss on late 1st round and 2nd round picks all the time. It’s 50-50. What matters is a QB… and we have one.

[JaCrispy]

At worst, I could see Rousseau busting...Basham I could see bottoming out as an adequate rotational player...

[Patrick Duffy]

11 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

At worst, I could see Rousseau busting...Basham I could see bottoming out as an adequate rotational player...

Ok, what's at best you could see for them?

[Boxcar]

4 hours ago, Capco said:

 

Here are the relevant snippets for those who don't/can't click the link:

 

Gregory Rousseau, DE, Rd 1, Pick 30, Bills. “To me, he’s totally a measurables guy. I don’t know how you can look at the film and see a top-30 pick. You’d see times where he’d wind up with a sack because someone ran right into him. There wasn’t a sense that his opponents were worried about him.”

I honestly don't care at all what Chris Simms thinks and all the things like that, but this is such a lazy, incorrect take.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbiCgsVVX-0

 

I can't believe Simms just boils it down to sacks, and even then "sure, he got sacks but they weren't real sacks and everything like that"

 

I don't care about his comments or whether he thinks Rousseau will be the best or worst edge in the league, but I can't stand stupid, lazy takes from guys who get paid to give them, especially when he's usually more nuanced.

Edited July 5, 2021 by Boxcar

[JaCrispy]

39 minutes ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Ok, what's at best you could see for them?

At best, I could see them being solid starters...

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, jabu said:

 

I consider Basham’s potential as better than mediocre - more as a Phil Hansen caliber player. That is, not elite but dependably steady. What are you factoring on for the mediocre ceiling call?

 

He struggled against some bang average college tackles, lacks technique as a rusher and almost all his college success came just bull rushing and overpowering guys who won't play on Sundays. That generally is the type of rusher that struggles to translate. He isn't going to overpower NFL tackles, he doesn't have the bend to beat them around the edge and he doesn't have the refinement to win any other way. I think he can be a solid base end that plays 8-10 years in the league and is good against the run but as a pass rush prospect? I think his ceiling is mediocre.

[Patrick Duffy]

7 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

At best, I could see them being solid starters...

I can agree with that. And hopefully at least one will be a little more than a solid starter. I could live with that if turns out that way in long run. Of course would be great if they can surprise and be a lot more than solid play makers. 

[Rocket94]

15 hours ago, todd said:

Hope he's wrong, or this could impact the Bills for years:

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/04/fmia-guest-michael-holley-on-andrew-berry-and-the-forward-looking-browns-5-draft-hits-misses/

This is the same guy that was drooling over Vaseon Joseph!