Marino vs Kelly

[mjt328]

Throw for throw, Dan Marino was definitely a better quarterback.  But Jim Kelly was a significantly better leader, and a master at dissecting a defense at the line of scrimmage.  As strange as it sounds, I don't think the Bills have the same success with Marino under center.

 

It's like comparing Peyton Manning to Tom Brady.  Or Steve Young to Joe Montana.

In my opinion, Manning/Young were better QBs in a head-to-head comparison.  But there is an art to winning big games, and there is something Brady/Montana possess that is above anyone else who every played.

[klos63]

2 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

But be sure to also ask the Phins fans who together with Marino were owned by Kelly and never sniffed a SB once Kelly came to Buffalo…

Why would I bother asking them? This is my opinion, not theirs.

1 hour ago, DD4Bills said:

 

Booger wants to weigh in...

Dan Marino played at 6'4", while Jim Kelly was only 6'3", so Dan was actually 1 inch taller.

Dan and Jim also both played offense, so never actually played against each other at the same time, as one team's offense play against the other team's defense.

 

Booger

[The Dean]

55 minutes ago, klos63 said:

Why would I bother asking them? This is my opinion, not theirs.

 

 

Maybe because informed opinions (opinions formed through facts/research/etc) carry a lot more weight than those that do not?

 

Maybe that's just me. But I'm typically more impressed, and likely to take seriously, a post where someone explains WHY they have the opinion than by those posts that simply say "So and so sucks".

[Paup 1995MVP]

1 hour ago, mjt328 said:

Throw for throw, Dan Marino was definitely a better quarterback.  But Jim Kelly was a significantly better leader, and a master at dissecting a defense at the line of scrimmage.  As strange as it sounds, I don't think the Bills have the same success with Marino under center.

 

It's like comparing Peyton Manning to Tom Brady.  Or Steve Young to Joe Montana.

In my opinion, Manning/Young were better QBs in a head-to-head comparison.  But there is an art to winning big games, and there is something Brady/Montana possess that is above anyone else who every played.

Great analysis MJT.  I watched a lot of Joe Montana games growing up.  And he was always so calm, so in control of things on the field, so accurate, and so clutch in crunch time.  The "Catch" thrown to Dwight Clark in the back of the endzone in the 1982 NFC Championship game (after the 1981 season) was tremendous.  As was the drive to win the 1989 Super Bowl (after the 1988 season) against the Bengals.  But how about the comeback against the Saints in 1980 down 35-7 going into the 2nd half and then winning in OT?  Or the win down 11 pts at Philly in 1989 throwing for 4 TD's in the 4th qtr?!  Joe was amazing.  

 

As for Kelly vs Marino.  I think Dan Marino was the best passer of the football that ever played the game.  His release was ridiculous.  That being said, Jim Kelly was a war horse, a great leader and had a dam good arm himself.  He was a great Quarterback.  As tough as any to play the position!!

 

And one thing that gets overlooked today when comparing QB's of one era from another is the physicality of the game from back in the day to now.  Toughness is not a major quality of a QB that anyone talks about anymore because in today's game you can not physically beat the crap out of the QB.  Everyone is so impressed by the numbers QB's put up today.  And that's great.  But lets see them do that getting hit under the chin with a big DT's helmet every single game all game long.  Its almost 2 hand touch on the QB in today's game.  For all you youngsters, go back and look at the Giants-49ers divisional playoff game in 1986.  Look at the hit to the chin that Jim Burt put on Joe Montana.  In today's game Burt may have been suspended for a month.  There was not even a penalty flag thrown.  

 

But one thing about Josh Allen.  He is one tough dude.  He definitely could have played and played well back in the day!!  I watched the 1st half of the Bills-Colts playoff game last nite.  Josh was making plays with his legs and his arm all over the place!  The man is AWESOME!!  Go Bills.

[klos63]

8 minutes ago, The Dean said:

 

Maybe because informed opinions (opinions formed through facts/research/etc) carry a lot more weight than those that do not?

 

Maybe that's just me. But I'm typically more impressed, and likely to take seriously, a post where someone explains WHY they have the opinion than by those posts that simply say "So and so sucks".

If I said , so and so sucks, you would have a point. If an informed opinion means asking Dolphins fans from 37 years ago what they thought, I'd also agree. I attended every jim kelly bills home game, watched as many dolphin games as reasonably possible as they were our arch rival.  My informed opinion is based on watching NFL football pretty religiously since 1970, with my 'peak years' being the Kelly era. I said based on hindsight after losing 4 Super Bowls, with a chance at a do over, I'd go with Marino. I don't think that's a radical opinion.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

It blows my mind that they never got Marino a RB. They had no running game his entire career 

sounds like how Josh Allen's career is starting !!!

[hondo in seattle]

Both were great.   Marino had a quicker release and was a little more accurate.   Jimbo was tougher and more fiery.

[4_kidd_4]

Fresh stuff. Youse guys think Todd Collins is gonna work out??

[The Jokeman]

10 minutes ago, 4_kidd_4 said:

Fresh stuff. Youse guys think Todd Collins is gonna work out??

Na, we should have drafted Rob Johnson who the Jags took in Round 4 instead.

Edited May 15, 2021 by The Jokeman

[BobbyC81]

10 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

It blows my mind that they never got Marino a RB. They had no running game his entire career 

But...but...he had the great Tony Nathan at the start of his career!

[klos63]

11 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

It blows my mind that they never got Marino a RB. They had no running game his entire career 

Their defense is ultimately what held them back. They had no trouble scoring points on offense, but defense was awful. Tom Oliviadeti?

[NoHuddleKelly12]

4 hours ago, klos63 said:

If I said , so and so sucks, you would have a point. If an informed opinion means asking Dolphins fans from 37 years ago what they thought, I'd also agree. I attended every jim kelly bills home game, watched as many dolphin games as reasonably possible as they were our arch rival.  My informed opinion is based on watching NFL football pretty religiously since 1970, with my 'peak years' being the Kelly era. I said based on hindsight after losing 4 Super Bowls, with a chance at a do over, I'd go with Marino. I don't think that's a radical opinion.

I came of age watching both Kelly and Marino sling it around season after season, and while I certainly don’t begrudge you your opinion of wanting Marino in a “do-over”, I do think it’s fair game to point out that Marino was not exactly playing on the 2020 Jets—his Dolphins teams were primarily coached by one of the best ever in Shula (in fact the best by win total, who also coached the only undefeated SB winner). My point is, if the winningest coach ever could not even with the “best pure passer” ever as many like to call Marino, ever get by Kelly in the playoffs or even boast a better head to head record, what exactly would he bring to Buffalo so they win a SB with QB’s reversed? 

[unbillievable]

The three best QBs were Elway, Marino, and Kelly... yet the NFC dominated during the prime of their careers.

[machine gun kelly]

3 minutes ago, unbillievable said:

The three best QBs were Elway, Marino, and Kelly... yet the NFC dominated during the prime of their careers.

Not completely true.  Kelly had a winning record against NFC teams throughout his tenure.  You can either look it up, or watch 30 for 30 who Polian dismayed that myth.  I then on a rainy day looked up his record several years ago.

[OrtonHearsaWho]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I came of age watching both Kelly and Marino sling it around season after season, and while I certainly don’t begrudge you your opinion of wanting Marino in a “do-over”, I do think it’s fair game to point out that Marino was not exactly playing on the 2020 Jets—his Dolphins teams were primarily coached by one of the best ever in Shula (in fact the best by win total, who also coached the only undefeated SB winner). My point is, if the winningest coach ever could not even with the “best pure passer” ever as many like to call Marino, ever get by Kelly in the playoffs or even boast a better head to head record, what exactly would he bring to Buffalo so they win a SB with QB’s reversed? 

 

That's a fair point but those Bills teams that Marino lost to were also hardly the 2020 Jets...they were awfully stacked on both sides of the ball.

 

For me the pretty easy answer is Marino and that is absolutely no knock on Kelly because he was obviously an all time great player.  There are almost too many factors to consider to really make an accurate ranking of Marino, Kelly and others but just from a arm talent standpoint Marino has few if any peers over the history of the league.

[Victory Formation]

From my untrained eye, Marino was better, but Kelly was a great player in his own right.

[klos63]

11 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

I came of age watching both Kelly and Marino sling it around season after season, and while I certainly don’t begrudge you your opinion of wanting Marino in a “do-over”, I do think it’s fair game to point out that Marino was not exactly playing on the 2020 Jets—his Dolphins teams were primarily coached by one of the best ever in Shula (in fact the best by win total, who also coached the only undefeated SB winner). My point is, if the winningest coach ever could not even with the “best pure passer” ever as many like to call Marino, ever get by Kelly in the playoffs or even boast a better head to head record, what exactly would he bring to Buffalo so they win a SB with QB’s reversed? 

It's just a thought, after all these years looking back on 4 super bowl losses leaves me pretty empty and although I love so many players from that era, I've lost a little bit of my passion for them. So this is just an exercise in our minds, would love to see what Marino could have done in a do over, that's all.  Honestly, if I could change anything, give me Pat Williams or Ted Washington instead of Jeff Wright and I'd be thrilled.  Or Steve Christie.

[mjd1001]

15 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

From my untrained eye, Marino was better, but Kelly was a great player in his own right.

I agree.  I grew up a Bills fan, had season tickets to watch most or all of the Kelly years from the time I was a kid, and I'm glad the Bills usually beat the Dolphins and Marino....but overall I thought Marino was a much better QB.  No Super bowls, but I think he was the best of his generation and maybe the best of all time.  He was the Peyton Manning of that Generation, but maybe even better based on what the Defenses were allowed to do back then.   

 

Elway was brought up in this thread, I never really saw how people think he was one of the greatest ever.  As a kid and teenager I watched as many NFL games as I could. Almost ever playoff game but I probably saw Elway play in a few dozen regular season games across his career....and my memory tells me he had more average games than great ones.  And I'm talking throwing the ball over WR heads, throwing it into the chest of DB's for the interception...Deciding to run for 8 yards on a third and 10 when you can see someone wide open on TV right at the first down market...Other than 'the drive' and a few clutch plays, game to game I thought Elway was one of the most overated.

[Another Fan]

This tread is like so 1993 😝

[Rico]

35 minutes ago, Another Fan said:

This tread is like so 1993 😝

Maybe, but at least back then, nobody wanted to see Marino on the Bills.

[Brennan Huff]

Put Kelly in Miami and he’d have comparable stats to Marino. If Miami would have drafted him he wouldn’t have gone to the USFL. In Houston he threw for a million yards throwing to guys who should have made the Pro Football Hall of Fame

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by Brennan Huff

[Ralonzo]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:42 AM, Freddie's Dead said:

When I went to Fish games at Rich Stadium, I would yell, "You blowwwwwwwwww, Marinoooooooooooo".  He was a good QB, but he could never get over the hump against Buffalo.    

Marino was terrified of Bruce Smith. He’d just fling the ball downfield and hope his guys caught it when he saw 78 out of the corner of his eye.

[1ManRaid]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:16 PM, tylerbillsfan33 said:

I think Dan Marino was the better passer.

 

You literally said Marino sucked in your OP.

[The Dean]

28 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

You literally said Marino sucked in your OP.

 

 

Where did he say that? I don't see it in this thread. In his locked thread's OP this is literally the first line of his post

 

Quote

Who was the better quarterback Kelly or Marino? They both were great players

 

The guy has definitely started some VERY weak threads, but I don't see where he said  Marino sucks or wasn't a good passer.

 

[BMWR100RT]

I think Marino was more gifted, but the intangible nature of leadership makes me take Kelly as my leader. Hell, I'd take Phil Simms over Marino.

[TBBills]

I think they are both too old to play football anymore.

[prissythecat]

3 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Put Kelly in Miami and he’d have comparable stats to Marino. If Miami would have drafted him he wouldn’t have gone to the USFL. In Houston he threw for a million yards throwing to guys who worked in factories during the week

 

Didn't all those guys end up playing in the NFL for a number of years?  They weren't exactly no names.  

[1ManRaid]

6 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Where did he say that? I don't see it in this thread. In his locked thread's OP this is literally the first line of his post

 

 

The guy has definitely started some VERY weak threads, but I don't see where he said  Marino sucks or wasn't a good passer.

 

 

Said Marino sucked because he only made it to one Super Bowl, which he lost.

[The Dean]

1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Said Marino sucked because he only made it to one Super Bowl, which he lost.

 

 

Where?  Not in this thread.

[1ManRaid]

2 hours ago, The Dean said:

 

 

Where?  Not in this thread.

 

I never said in this thread.  In Tyler's original thread.

[The Dean]

6 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

I never said in this thread.  In Tyler's original thread.

 

 

I posted this from his VERY FIRST comment from that thread.   

 

They both were great players

 

Now I'm not big on this guy, but I couldn't find one post where he said Marino sucked. Maybe I just missed it.

[Gordio]

On 5/14/2021 at 1:27 PM, MJS said:

Marino is a douche.

 

 

So was kelly, what is your point?  As to who is better, I got to go with the guy who had the lightning quick release and the rocket arm that could squeeze the ball into the tightest of spaces, that is Marino.  & I loved Kelly, I have a wall in the bar in my basement dedicated just to him.  I was always shocked if you go around the country people did not hold Kelly in as high as regards as the good people of WNY.  I always found that interesting because I that Kelly was amazing.  But marino was the better QB.  In my mind Marino is a top 5 qb right there with Brady/Manning/Brees/Montana.  Kelly doesnt even make the top 10.

[Gordio]

21 hours ago, Brennan Huff said:

Put Kelly in Miami and he’d have comparable stats to Marino. If Miami would have drafted him he wouldn’t have gone to the USFL. In Houston he threw for a million yards throwing to guys who worked in factories during the week

 

 

That is a dumb statement, first a lot of those USFL guys went on to have productive NFL careers.  But second, using your logic the defenses he was going against werent exactly NFL caliber either.  

[Real McClappy]

We'll never know what Marino could have done with several HOF players supporting him on O and D like Kelly had. 

[Rico]

2 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

So was kelly, what is your point?  As to who is better, I got to go with the guy who had the lightning quick release and the rocket arm that could squeeze the ball into the tightest of spaces, that is Marino.  & I loved Kelly, I have a wall in the bar in my basement dedicated just to him.  I was always shocked if you go around the country people did not hold Kelly in as high as regards as the good people of WNY.  I always found that interesting because I that Kelly was amazing.  But marino was the better QB.  In my mind Marino is a top 5 qb right there with Brady/Manning/Brees/Montana.  Kelly doesnt even make the top 10.

Marino is in the conversation for top 5 regular season QBs.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/14/2021 at 10:39 AM, inaugural balls said:

Blows my mind how his hair held a curl after removing his helmet. 

Uncanny. 

 

So what's your opinion on Cole Beasley's golden locks?

[Brennan Huff]

3 hours ago, Gordio said:

 

 

That is a dumb statement, first a lot of those USFL guys went on to have productive NFL careers.  But second, using your logic the defenses he was going against werent exactly NFL caliber either.  

This is the definition of irony. Yeah Ricky Sanders turned out to be a productive receiver in the NFL, but the overwhelming majority of USFL players didn’t move on to the NFL. Now let’s argue about it some more without getting anywhere 

[prissythecat]

6 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

This is the definition of irony. Yeah Ricky Sanders turned out to be a productive receiver in the NFL, but the overwhelming majority of USFL players didn’t move on to the NFL. Now let’s argue about it some more without getting anywhere 

 

 You claimed Kelly was gaining tons of yards throwing to scrubs .  But his receiving core of Gerald McNeil, Clarence Verdin, Richard Johnson and Ricky Sanders all went on to have NFL careers after the USFL folded.    So your argument kind of falls flat.  On the Bills ,  Kelly benefited greatly from having a strong running game.   Marino never had that.    There is a reason why Marino tends to appear on  lists of the top 10 NFL QBs of all time while Kelly does not.

[Brennan Huff]

3 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

 

 You claimed Kelly was gaining tons of yards throwing to scrubs .  But his receiving core of Gerald McNeil, Clarence Verdin, Richard Johnson and Ricky Sanders all went on to have NFL careers after the USFL folded.    So your argument kind of falls flat.  On the Bills ,  Kelly benefited greatly from having a strong running game.   Marino never had that.    There is a reason why Marino tends to appear on  lists of the top 10 NFL QBs of all time while Kelly does not.

No, you originally said “productive” careers 

 

Edit: sorry that wasn’t you. But yeah besides Sanders, none of those guys did anything in the NFL

Edited May 17, 2021 by Brennan Huff

[prissythecat]

2 minutes ago, Brennan Huff said:

No, you originally said “productive” careers 

 

Typically, someone is not kept on a roster for several seasons unless they are somehow "productive"    Keep digging that hole.  You are doing great

Edited May 17, 2021 by prissythecat