Sounds crazy but Jon Feliciano might not re-sign

[atlbillsfan1975]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Feliciano's a great Guard. But you pay your Right Tackle before you pay a Guard. And you pay your best Linebacker before you pay a Guard. And then you run out of money and the Guard is the odd man out. Sucks - but that's business.

I like Feliciano and I want him back. He is a great teammate and a friend of Josh Allen’s, and he is an average guard. He might be a good to great center, but that doesn’t appear to be an option for him in 2021 with the Bills. If he wants to sign a multiple year deal where he plays guard this year and slides over to center in 2022, that works. 2021 cap hit is extremely low and then in 2022 and 2023 it grows while he plays center. Not sure how feasible this is or if Beane and McD agree that Feliciano can be a good to great center. I think they saw what I saw; he is an average guard. I watched Feliciano with rose colored glasses because I like him and his style, but to say he is a great guard is an overvaluation.

Edited March 14, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[DCbillsfan]

Like others have said, Mongo is an average guard.  Some games I'd say he's below average.  If the Bills are serious about upgrading their running game, part of the solution is upgrading at the Guard position. 

 

Re-sign, not resign, Boettger to be a backup guard.  Go with Williams, draftee/FA, Morse, Ford, and Dawkins.  Hopefully Ford can stay healthy and start showing why Beane drafted him.

[Matt_In_NH]

7 hours ago, SCBills said:

What is the reasoning for those who hope we re-sign him?  
 

He’s an ok player with positional flexibility.   
 

He and Ford would be the weak links on our OL currently.  

 

Ford is only a weak link due to being unproven... he was projected to be a stud G out of college - we’ve since played him at RT Year 1 and then he got hurt early playing Guard in Year 2.  
 

Feliciano is a weak link because he’s not that good.  He’s not bad... but he’s not good either. 
 

If we want to have a running game this year, I’d assume Beane wants to upgrade the G positions - especially since LT, RT, C are the same guys.  Ford could upgrade one spot... I’m hoping we also try to upgrade the other. 

 

Disagree, is he an All-Pro?  No he's not but he is a lot better than "not that good", a lot.  Ford is relegated to backup with Feliciano and Boettger on the team.   But you are right, maybe they can use their cap space to sign a bunch of all pros in the upcoming free agency....they should  be able to sign Thuney and Brandon Scherff should be doable, maybe get Mack (or battle it out with Morse) as a backup Center and then draft some good road graters (fresh meat) in the draft.  

[HOUSE]

WE ARE BROKE

 

 

[Matt_In_NH]

Not sure if they can make it work, but other than Feliciano, who else on the FA list would fans want back?  I like McKenzie, Roberts and Marlowe depending on price.   Not sure what the interest will be for those guys.

[Magox]

Feliciano is a good team player, he's a bit of a loose cannon on twitter and wears his emotions on his sleeve.  I like him, I know he has become TBD's next-in-line whipping boy, but if the Bills could retain him for around $4m-$5m a year they should be all over it.   His versatility at center and guard is valuable and even if he didn't become the starter, he would provide very good quality depth at the interior positions.  I hope we do get him back.

[NI Bills Fan]

6 minutes ago, Magox said:

Feliciano is a good team player, he's a bit of a loose cannon on twitter and wears his emotions on his sleeve.  I like him, I know he has become TBD's next-in-line whipping boy, but if the Bills could retain him for around $4m-$5m a year they should be all over it.   His versatility at center and guard is valuable and even if he didn't become the starter, he would provide very good quality depth at the interior positions.  I hope we do get him back.

I'd agree with that.  Keep him, but keep the cap hit as low as possible for 2021.

 

You could likely get a better guard for just slightly more than $4-5M but what you gain in quality you likely lose in positional flexibility and the continuity/familiarity a returning Feliciano gives this O line.

 

Get him back.

[BobbyC81]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I'd argue it would end up with Ford and Feliciano starting and Boettger backing up if all three were on the team, which at this point looks a lot more doubtful than it did a few days ago.

 

Some in the media have pointed out that the O-line struggled before Feliciano returned, then played a lot better.  He’s also considered a good leader and great locker room guy.  Intangibles!

[LyndonvilleBill]

35 minutes ago, mattynh said:

Not sure if they can make it work, but other than Feliciano, who else on the FA list would fans want back?  I like McKenzie, Roberts and Marlowe depending on price.   Not sure what the interest will be for those guys.

Mckensie, Boroquez, Wallace and Barkley from our own FA's. This would also be my list in order. If Beane can work it out and keep Feliciano and Roberts, I am good with it.. But I also wouldn't be heartbroken if he couldn't. 

[gjv001]

If I'm Beane, I would look to use my remaining salary cap to upgrade my defense.  

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

I like Feliciano and I want him back. He is a great teammate and a friend of Josh Allen’s, and he is an average guard. He might be a good to great center, but that doesn’t appear to be an option for him in 2021. Now if he wants to sign a multiple year deal where he plays guard this year and slides over to center in 2022, that works. 2021 cap hit is extremely low and then in 2022 and 2023 it grows while he plays center. Not sure how feasible this is or if Beane and McD agree that Feliciano can be a good to great center. I think they saw what I saw and that’s that he is an average guard. I watched Feliciano with rose colored glasses because I like him and his style, but to say he is a great guard is an overvaluation.

I agree, I like him too.

 

I think he should be back, if for mostly as a backup guard/center...considering that Morse has had so many concussions. Morse worries me because that next concussion might be his last playing in the NFL.

 

 

[atlbillsfan1975]

5 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree, I like him too.

 

I think he should be back, if for mostly as a backup guard/center...considering that Morse has had so many concussions. Morse worries me because that next concussion might be his last playing in the NFL.

 

 

I agree with the backup center/starting guard. Love to see a deal like they gave Q. Spain last year with maybe more cap hit in year two and three. Not sure how feasible that is. 

Edited March 14, 2021 by atlbillsfan1975

[CSBill]

I would guess Feliciano's future with the Bills is directly tied to how the Bills fell about Ike Boettger. They're not going to give up on Ford yet. It seems as long  as he is healthy he is penciled in at a Guard spot. Morse is locked in at Center. Boettger had a decent run at the end of the season--they have plenty of game tape to evaluate his potential now. Plus, he has also worked at Center. So if they believe he can start at Guard and be a legit option at Center, it feels like Ike is a cheaper but equal option over Feliciano. Jon F. may be the odd man out???

 

Add to that, super-sub Ryan Bates is always waiting in the wings (is he ready to compete for a starting spot?). And, they resigned Devey for Insurance. .... I really like Feliciano, but the stars are not aligning for him. I hope not, but I would not be surprised.

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by CSBill

[RichRiderBills]

Mongo should not get a big pay day. I predict 5-6 million per year. With a 3 year deal, maybe backload it to have a soft cap hit for 2021. 

 

I think fans are giving him a hard time as he was coming off a major injury, and asked to play several positions in 2020. 

 

Mongo played poorly in the AFC championship and the Colts game, but otherwise was not as bad as folks say. No, he was not the weak link on the OL during the reg season. I think his play during the title game is clouding some folks judgement. We are forgetting the better games and really good 2019 season where he gained a rep as a tough as nails guy.

 

Dont underestimate the value of a versatile multipositional linemen.

Edited March 14, 2021 by RichRiderBills

[JMF2006]

The Bromannce might be over

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by JMF2006
pic

[Doc]

I’d tell JF to test the market but keep in touch. In the meantime and see if a better guard would come for a reasonable deal.

[Big Turk]

10 hours ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

Feliciano's a great Guard. But you pay your Right Tackle before you pay a Guard. And you pay your best Linebacker before you pay a Guard. And then you run out of money and the Guard is the odd man out. Sucks - but that's business.

 

We didn't run out of money. Beane can easily make room if he felt it was a necessity by restructuring a contract like Dawkins to free up $10 million. Likely we will do that if he finds a guard in FA he wants.

 

The issue is with the cap held down and all the guards on the market, there are 5 or 6 guards better than Mongo who will all be getting around the same contract as Mongo. Why do anything until we see if we can get one of those guards first?

[JaCrispy]

I’m fine with this...i think an upgrade is in order...

[SCBills]

2 hours ago, mattynh said:

 

Disagree, is he an All-Pro?  No he's not but he is a lot better than "not that good", a lot.  Ford is relegated to backup with Feliciano and Boettger on the team.   But you are right, maybe they can use their cap space to sign a bunch of all pros in the upcoming free agency....they should  be able to sign Thuney and Brandon Scherff should be doable, maybe get Mack (or battle it out with Morse) as a backup Center and then draft some good road graters (fresh meat) in the draft.  

Ford is going to be given every chance to start.  Coming out of college, every analyst had him as a potential pro-bowl caliber Guard.  We’ve since experimented with him at RT for one year and then he quickly got hurt before we could see what he can do on the interior.  
 

1) Guards aren’t that expensive in FA, if Beane surprises and we go that route.  
 

2) You can get a high level G prospect in the 2nd Round... sometimes 3rd.   
 

I’d rather do any of that, than bring back 4/5ths of the same line that couldn’t run block to save their lives.  And given the fact neither of our backs has “get to the edge” speed, that run blocking is very much incumbent on the interior of our OL.  
 

Of course Beane could shock us and bring in a speed back, but if he doesn’t, we won’t just magically get better at running the ball with the same personnel. 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by SCBills

[below]

I bet their offer right now is backup/fringe starter money like the deal they signed Spencer Long to a few years ago. 

 

Unlike Daryl Williams where we had NO ONE to replace him, we have leverage and are ok at guard (Ford/Boettger) even if we lose him. I'm sure there are other versatile C/G types Beane is eying for plan B if Feliciano leaves.

 

At least he could net us a comp pick next year.

 

Hopefully we get him back!

[Matt_In_NH]

38 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Ford is going to be given every chance to start.  Coming out of college, every analyst had him as a potential pro-bowl caliber Guard.  We’ve since experimented with him at RT for one year and then he quickly got hurt before we could see what he can do on the interior.  
 

1) Guards aren’t that expensive in FA, if Beane surprises and we go that route.  
 

2) You can get a high level G prospect in the 2nd Round... sometimes 3rd.   
 

I’d rather do any of that, than bring back 4/5ths of the same line that couldn’t run block to save their lives.  And given the fact neither of our backs has “get to the edge” speed, that run blocking is very much incumbent on the interior of our OL.  
 

Of course Beane could shock us and bring in a speed back, but if he doesn’t, we won’t just magically get better at running the ball with the same personnel. 

 

That all sounds reasonable.   There are real life cap considerations and there are needs at TE, DE, OT depth, staring OG's....we dont know the current cap number but just the three RFA's and draft class could take all of it.  There are more moves they can make but they will have to try and find guys who may not be on our radar in FA to plug in.  I get it, the OL could be better than last year...but it also could be worse, they are very good at pass pro which is what the team would prefer.  I think we all agree, they need better balance and some more output from the RB position.  The strategy the coaching staff took on was pass first and it was very successful so the running game never got the focus.  One  time in the regular season they needed it against NE they did quite well.....very windy conditions.  If they bring back Boettger and Ford, they are not as bad as some thing.  Feliciano is an upgrade for those two in my opinion (with the three of them they would have some depth also) but he may not be someone they choose to spend their precious limited resources.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

Unfortunately, it's anything but crazy after re-signing both Milano and Daryl Williams.

That cost a lot of money.

He said earlier he wants to be here. I think he'll take a discount. But there's now probably a pretty decent chance that won't be enough.

 

People here wondered why the Bills apparently didn't ask John Brown if he was willing to re-negotiate and extend his salary or take a decrease.

 

I think the Bills feel they need a potential upgrade and will seek it in FA/draft, and with limited funds and roster space, you can't seek change while keeping things the same.

 

I think the same may be true for Feliciano.

 

I hope I'm right and it's not that the Bills have decided an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-who dat?-Williams would be fine to go into the season

 

 

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

People here wondered why the Bills apparently didn't ask John Brown if he was willing to re-negotiate and extend his salary or take a decrease.

 

I think the Bills feel they need a potential upgrade and will seek it in FA/draft, and with limited funds and roster space, you can't seek change while keeping things the same.

 

I think the same may be true for Feliciano.

 

I hope I'm right and it's not that the Bills have decided an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-who dat?-Williams would be fine to go into the season

 

 

This.  
 

I think many of us will be shocked if the Bills don’t get younger and/or cheaper at WR and Guard.   
 

That doesn’t mean “worse”.  
 

Brown is a older speed guy who was banged up all year.  
 

Feliciano is probably the least talented starter on the OL.  People can say what they want about Ford, but he’s young, and we’ve barely seen him at G - coming out of Oklahoma, dude was a stud.  
 

I could easily see us take a Guard and WR in the first 3 rounds. 

[JimmyNoodles]

1 minute ago, SCBills said:

This.  
 

I think many of us will be shocked if the Bills don’t get younger and/or cheaper at WR and Guard.   
 

That doesn’t mean “worse”.  
 

Brown is a older speed guy who was banged up all year.  
 

Feliciano is probably the least talented starter on the OL.  People can say what they want about Ford, but he’s young, and we’ve barely seen him at G - coming out of Oklahoma, dude was a stud.  
 

I could easily see us take a Guard and WR in the first 3 rounds. 

Guard/Center for sure. Might play guard this year and move to center when Morse goes. 

[Nihilarian]

10 minutes ago, SCBills said:

This.  
 

I think many of us will be shocked if the Bills don’t get younger and/or cheaper at WR and Guard.   
 

That doesn’t mean “worse”.  
 

Brown is a older speed guy who was banged up all year.  
 

Feliciano is probably the least talented starter on the OL.  People can say what they want about Ford, but he’s young, and we’ve barely seen him at G - coming out of Oklahoma, dude was a stud.  
 

I could easily see us take a Guard and WR in the first 3 rounds. 

I can't!

 

A TE perhaps or a center to groom for replacing Morse.

 

The thing with John Brown is, as much as I like the guy. We all saw he couldn't get any separation in the Chiefs games or in that Ravens game this year and last year. That first Chiefs game in 2020, 4 targets 0 catches. 

 

Brown had the same targets and receptions as Diggs in the 2020 Ravens playoff game. The difference was Diggs 11 targets, 8 receptions for 106 yards, 1 TD. Brown 11 targets, 8 receptions for 62 yards.  

 

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

36 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I could easily see us take a Guard and WR in the first 3 rounds. 

 

WR would surprise me greatly.

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

WR would surprise me greatly.

If we sign someone like Hunter Henry, I suppose I could see us going with Diggs-Beasley-Davis and co., but if we don’t dramatically increase the proven talent level of our TE or RB room, running with Gabe Davis as our outside #2, with not much behind him in proven talent is risky.  
 

Edited March 14, 2021 by SCBills

[Hapless Bills Fan]

15 minutes ago, Nihilarian said:

I can't!

 

A TE perhaps or a center to groom for replacing Morse.

 

The thing with John Brown is, as much as I like the guy. We all saw he couldn't get any separation in the Chiefs games or in that Ravens game this year and last year. That first Chiefs game in 2020, 4 targets 0 catches. 

 

Brown had the same targets and receptions as Diggs in the 2020 Ravens playoff game. The difference was Diggs 11 targets, 8 receptions for 106 yards, 1 TD. Brown 11 targets, 8 receptions for 62 yards. 

 

I'm puzzled as to your point on the last part.

 

Brown had an excellent game against the Ravens.  He made some crucial, tough, sideline shoestring catches.

 

But part of it was how the Ravens played our WR. 

The Colts played to take Brown and Diggs away, as a result of which Diggs had 6 receptions on 9 targets for 128 yds and Brown had 0 receptions on 4 targets while Davis and Beasley caught everything thrown near them for 85 and 57 yards, respectively.  Beasley in particular moved the chains when we needed to.

 

Partly as a result, the Ravens decided Brown was nothing to worry about but in addition to Diggs, Beasley and Davis were dangerous guys who had to be limited.  As a result Beasley and Davis got skunked but Brown had his chances.  And the extra motivation of sticking it to a team that dumped him may have given Brown some juice.

 

With Davis hobbled, KC succeeded in limiting everyone, including Diggs.

 

Anyway the point that Brown couldn't gain separation against the Colts or Chiefs would make more sense to me than against the Ravens this year; he did get separation there.  Last year not so much, but the Ravens had fewer receivers to worry about.

 

We clearly need a different path, in any event, whether that's a better TE or a better pass-catching RB or a more physical speed guy.

 

 

 

Just now, SCBills said:

If we sign someone like Hunter Henry, I suppose I could see us going with Diggs-Beasley-Davis and co., but if we don’t dramatically increase the proven talent level of our TE or RB room, running with Gabe Davis as our outside #2, with not much behind him in proven talent is risky - especially if McKenzie doesn’t get re-signed.  

 

I agree.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

14 hours ago, SCBills said:

What is the reasoning for those who hope we re-sign him?  
 

He’s an ok player with positional flexibility.   
 

He and Ford would be the weak links on our OL currently.  

 

Ford is only a weak link due to being unproven... he was projected to be a stud G out of college - we’ve since played him at RT Year 1 and then he got hurt early playing Guard in Year 2.  
 

Feliciano is a weak link because he’s not that good.  He’s not bad... but he’s not good either. 
 

If we want to have a running game this year, I’d assume Beane wants to upgrade the G positions - especially since LT, RT, C are the same guys.  Ford could upgrade one spot... I’m hoping we also try to upgrade the other. 

 

I think much of the reasoning was the assumption that Williams was gone, so didn't want to lose two starting lineman.

 

Wouldn't shock me if Beane was negotiating with both Williams and Mongo and basically told them whomever signs first gets the contract, loser is heading to FA.

 

Having an opening at guard is maybe better than a tackle as can sign an interior lineman for less than a tackle.   My expectation is they will draft an interior lineman fairly high, maybe Ike B is still resigned, he starts in the beginning of the season, but by November or so the rookie is starting.  Likely they also sign a cheap mid level FA tackle as a backup.

[BillsFanForever19]

5 hours ago, Big Turk said:

 

We didn't run out of money. Beane can easily make room if he felt it was a necessity by restructuring a contract like Dawkins to free up $10 million. Likely we will do that if he finds a guard in FA he wants.

 

The issue is with the cap held down and all the guards on the market, there are 5 or 6 guards better than Mongo who will all be getting around the same contract as Mongo. Why do anything until we see if we can get one of those guards first?

 

Yes, we aren't completely broke. But at 7.65 under, draft picks, and RFA's like Wallace, Bojorquez, and Boettger to sign - you're probably not fitting Feliciano in unless, like you said, he does more restructures. Which I'm not counting on until it happens. Just because something makes sense to us doesn't mean it's going to happen. See: Trent Murphy last season

Edited March 14, 2021 by BillsFanForever19

[3rdand12]

16 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Resign and re-sign are not synonyms.  

This is news to me.
But thanks for the pro tip

jk

5 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

People here wondered why the Bills apparently didn't ask John Brown if he was willing to re-negotiate and extend his salary or take a decrease.

 

I think the Bills feel they need a potential upgrade and will seek it in FA/draft, and with limited funds and roster space, you can't seek change while keeping things the same.

 

I think the same may be true for Feliciano.

 

I hope I'm right and it's not that the Bills have decided an OL of Dawkins-Ford-Morse-who dat?-Williams would be fine to go into the season

 

 

Does Boettger or Ford take RG.
seems maybe Ford should play RG and Ike LG and winters fades away.
 

 I want Feliciano on the Bills. tweets be damned

[whatdrought]

False, Blackbears. 

[3rdand12]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

I think much of the reasoning was the assumption that Williams was gone, so didn't want to lose two starting lineman.

 

Wouldn't shock me if Beane was negotiating with both Williams and Mongo and basically told them whomever signs first gets the contract, loser is heading to FA.

 

Having an opening at guard is maybe better than a tackle as can sign an interior lineman for less than a tackle.   My expectation is they will draft an interior lineman fairly high, maybe Ike B is still resigned, he starts in the beginning of the season, but by November or so the rookie is starting.  Likely they also sign a cheap mid level FA tackle as a backup.

Re-signed

 gracious me. I thought we covered this already today    

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

Does Boettger or Ford take RG.

seems maybe Ford should play RG and Ike LG and winters fades away.

 

I could be mistaken but I thought Ford had success at LG in college.  So maybe he's more comfortable there?

Has Boettger ever played RG?

 

I think they need to draft/bring in more at OL

 

Winters is a FA and I doubt he's resigned.

 

3 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

 I want Feliciano on the Bills. tweets be damned

 

I love Mongo.  I loved Smoke, too.

 

[LyndonvilleBill]

Guess he was just Re-Signed... time to move on...LOL...

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

Wouldn't shock me if Beane was negotiating with both Williams and Mongo and basically told them whomever signs first gets the contract, loser is heading to FA.

 

It would shock me completely

[KingBoots8]

Well, guess we can close this one down now lol

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, KingBoots8 said:

Well, guess we can close this one down now lol

 

You're a Prophet!!!!!