The Great Tremaine Edmunds Debate

[JohnNord]

Over the past few days, Bills Twitter has been split over Tremaine Edmunds.
 

The Case for Edmunds:

WGR’s Nate Geary and Cover 1’s Erik Turner

Both have defended Edmunds and believes that he isn’t the problem.  They have also said THE excuse - he’s 22!  Also feels he’s a scapegoat and suffering from having a poor DL.

 

To be fair the stuff about the DL is a good argument but I’m not sure that’s the entire issue.  

 

The case against Edmunds:

Majority of Bills Twitter
 

They will point to weakness Edmunds has shown in run support, how easily he can get fooled and lost in space, and the lack of overall impact plays.  

Maybe this group doesn’t know the X and O’s but they see a player who appears to have struggled on the field quite a bit. 

My take

I normally agree with Nate and Erik but as of February 2021, I’m skeptical that Edmunds will ever live up to his potential in the defense.  I don’t think he got much better and while the issue of the DL and injuries are valid, I just don’t think he’s shown that he’s a special player.

 

I’m really hoping we see a different player because after next year there are no more excuses.  No more....”but he’s only 22.”  Because after 4 years the excuses need to stop.  
 

Many here were not high on Josh last offseason and look what happened.  So you never know....but we need to see more.  

 

PRO EDMUNDS

 

 

Against Edmunds:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by JohnNord

[Beast]

Edmunds is a damned good player. I will leave it at that. 

[JohnNord]

2 minutes ago, Beast said:

Edmunds is a damned good player. I will leave it at that. 

Not sure I few that strongly.  The potential is there but I didn’t see it this season

[gobills404]

He's far from the problem on defense, but I'd be lying if said didn't expect more from a 16th overall pick in year 3. The most annoying part is how he's been used. He was (and still is) a physical freak with below average processing/recognition that people thought would be a chess piece in the front 7. Instead we've boxed him in at mlb and tried to make him be Luke Kuechly.

Edited February 5, 2021 by gobills404

[Rc2catch]

I like to think it has a lot to do with scheme and pass rush. 
You can’t expect this guy to cover the middle of the field after 3 seconds. When he’s dropping back the quarterback needs to force a decision in less than 4 seconds or basically Edmunds is hung out to dry. 
There’s not a linebacker in the league that’s gonna drop like that and have success if the pass rush isn’t getting home. 
I do still think there’s a lot of room to grow in the run game, and I can agree with a lot of people who say he plays soft. Basically if anyone touches him he’s out of the play. Not a good trait to be in the middle. 
I hope they have plans to switch things up a little. I think getting a good edge pass rusher changes an awful lot in this defense. 

[transplantbillsfan]

The debate doesn't really matter.  With news that Milano is going to seek top dollar, he's not going to be with the team next year--I really wish he would change his mind because I think he and Jerry Hughes were our 2 most consistent defensive players and biggest impact players all year--but we will exercise Edmunds's 5th year option and I think OBD will work on a long term extension for him next offseason.

 

Edmunds actually made me more of a believer in him this year.  I always thought he shied away from contact as a tackler and just wasn't very good against the run.  This year he did much, much better in that category.

 

Like Allen, Edmunds still has plenty of room to improve and has improved through each of his first 3 seasons.

[Frat-Train]

He’s like the new Star Wars trilogy, by Disney...  Starts pretty cool, but then Suddenly pulls hard to the left in WTF’s-ville.  Here’s hoping he can find his mandalorian and restore a little confidence in fans hearts.

Edited February 5, 2021 by Frat-Train

[BuffaloRebound]

I want my LB to be more of a dawg, more nasty.  His dad was a great NFL Tight End. Tremaine is a physical freak. Things probably always came easy for him. He’s gotta start playing like there’s no tomorrow. No way I’m exercising his 5th year option.  I wanna see how he plays without tomorrow guaranteed.  Time to realize your potential young man or find something else to do.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

The debate doesn't really matter.  With news that Milano is going to seek top dollar, he's not going to be with the team next year--I really wish he would change his mind because I think he and Jerry Hughes were our 2 most consistent defensive players and biggest impact players all year--but we will exercise Edmunds's 5th year option and I think OBD will work on a long term extension for him next offseason.

 

Edmunds actually made me more of a believer in him this year.  I always thought he shied away from contact as a tackler and just wasn't very good against the run.  This year he did much, much better in that category.

 

Like Allen, Edmunds still has plenty of room to improve and has improved through each of his first 3 seasons.

😂  And what makes you think Edmunds won’t when the time comes. 
 

[JaCrispy]

Edmunds is such a frustrating player...I feel that if he were a mid round pick, we would be looking to upgrade...but because he was a first round pick we are stuck with him, and will likely pay him top dollar...unfortunately...👎

[NoSaint]

20 minutes ago, Beast said:

Edmunds is a damned good player. I will leave it at that. 

he’s a talented athlete, that has struggled. 
 

I don’t doubt that’s a combo of scheme, d line, youth, and probably some skill issues too. Not to mention injury. 
 

he too often guesses the wrong hole, and when he gets there he’s rarely a missile... but with a bum shoulder and not great DT play.... would we expect him to be firing through and blowing up everything?

 

 

it’s tough to evaluate him this year and he is walking into a major “prove it” season. 

[bigK14094]

Seems to lack the head and instinct of a middle linebacker.  Not as bad a miss as Shaq Lawson, but down that kind road.

[Beast]

13 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Edmunds is such a frustrating player...I feel that if he were a mid round pick, we would be looking to upgrade...but because he was a first round pick we are stuck with him, and will likely pay him top dollar...unfortunately...👎

 

And he consistantly gets voted to the Pro Bowl by his peers because he has cool dreads.

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, Beast said:

Edmunds is a damned good player. I will leave it at that. 

He is at times. I’ll give him that.  Watching him play, at times, I can see what teams will pay him a lot of money. We’ll probably be the team. I just hope he becomes more instinctual and decisive with every year he plays 

[transplantbillsfan]

16 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

😂  And what makes you think Edmunds won’t when the time comes. 
 

 

The time hasn't come for Edmunds.

 

The time has come for Milano.

 

There's really no need for this debate because we have Edmunds locked down with us for 2 more years.  The debate really should be whether we just let Milano walk or pay him top dollar.  I'm on the side that we should let him walk because when he says "top dollar" I'm assuming he's talking Khalil Mack and Von Miller type money, and he's definitely not worth that.

[Process]

He either stinks, or is not a good fit scheme wise. 

 

Either way, Edmunds as MLB in this defense has been a massive failure and it needs to be figured out this off-season. 

 

There is also no doubt that we need a big man in the middle on the d line, which will help everyone. 

[ProcessTruster]

9 minutes ago, NewEra said:

He is at times. I’ll give him that.  Watching him play, at times, I can see what teams will pay him a lot of money. We’ll probably be the team. I just hope he becomes more instinctual and decisive with every year he plays 

When Star is back in front of him, he will be better.  

[Mr. WEO]

I don't see how his age matters.  He's a 3rd year NFL vet.  I f he was a 24 year old 3rd year vet, he would be better? 

[JGMcD2]

I vote we get rid of Edmunds and replace him with a linebacker from the 1980s. We will then be able to stop all the elite running offenses in the league like the Ravens, Colts, Patriots and Rams. 
 

Our 1980s LB won’t be able to defend against the pass, but that’s ok. 

[BuffaloRebound]

2 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

When Star is back in front of him, he will be better.  

He’s supposedly gonna make Oliver better too.  The guy McBeane asked to take a pay cut last year is being counted on to solve a lot of problems on the defense.  

[ticketssince61]

34 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Edmunds is such a frustrating player...I feel that if he were a mid round pick, we would be looking to upgrade...but because he was a first round pick we are stuck with him, and will likely pay him top dollar...unfortunately...👎

 

Not just a 1st round pick - a 1st round we traded up for!

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

I don't see how his age matters.  He's a 3rd year NFL vet.  I f he was a 24 year old 3rd year vet, he would be better? 

Repetition over his life time. 
 

Similar to the reason many used in order to defend Josh for not being an elite player in his first two seasons. 

[Mr. WEO]

9 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I vote we get rid of Edmunds and replace him with a linebacker from the 1980s. We will then be able to stop all the elite running offenses in the league like the Ravens, Colts, Patriots and Rams. 
 

Our 1980s LB won’t be able to defend against the pass, but that’s ok. 

 

 

Otis Wilson, Wilbur Marshall and Mike Singletary just called to say you are incorrect.

5 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Repetition over his life time. 
 

Similar to the reason many used in order to defend Josh for not being an elite player in his first two seasons. 

 

 

You mean he suffers from a lack of sufficient reps prior to joining the NFL?  He played 3 seasons/32 games at Virginia Tech and came out after his Jr year, like a lot of 1st rounders.  Why would his biological age matter at all now?

Edited February 5, 2021 by Mr. WEO

[BuffaloRebound]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I vote we get rid of Edmunds and replace him with a linebacker from the 1980s. We will then be able to stop all the elite running offenses in the league like the Ravens, Colts, Patriots and Rams. 
 

Our 1980s LB won’t be able to defend against the pass, but that’s ok. 

Weren’t we worst in the League covering Tight Ends last year? 

[HOUSE]

2× Pro Bowl (2019, 2020)

 

First team All-ACC (2017)

 

Second team All-ACC (2016

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, ProcessTruster said:

When Star is back in front of him, he will be better.  

I’m sure he will be.........he still

needs to improve on his instincts imo.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

40 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

  And what makes you think Edmunds won’t when the time comes.

 

No one is opining on that matter

The fact is with being shorted on cap we have to make choices this off-season

 

[JGMcD2]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Otis Wilson, Wilbur Marshall and Mike Singletary just called to say you are incorrect.

 

 

You mean he suffers from a lack of sufficient reps prior to joining the NFL?

I’m saying he’s doing the learning and growing that most 20, 21 and 22 year old LBs are doing while they’re still playing CFB. Whether that’s an excuse for him or not is up to you. I looked a few months ago but if I remember correctly most of the top LBs coming out this year are the same age or older than Edmunds. 
 

If folks are going to criticize Beane for not taking enough swings for players with elite traits, you can’t complain when the players with elite traits that he does take don’t pan out right away. 
 

It’s the same old song and dance every day here. 

5 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Weren’t we worst in the League covering Tight Ends last year? 

Yeah that’s a symptom of having zero pass rush. It’s been covered pretty extensively. CBs have a hard time running around with WR/TE for a long time, I guess LBs aren’t supposed to? 

Edited February 5, 2021 by JGMcD2

[TN Bills Fan]

Scheme has nothing to do with missing tackles in the hole.

[97bills]

44 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Edmunds is such a frustrating player...I feel that if he were a mid round pick, we would be looking to upgrade...but because he was a first round pick we are stuck with him, and will likely pay him top dollar...unfortunately...👎

I agree with you and yes he has a bunch of tackles but never a big 3 and 1 hit in the backfield to me his just average but I hope he comes around 

[JGMcD2]

7 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

2× Pro Bowl (2019, 2020)

 

First team All-ACC (2017)

 

Second team All-ACC (2016

It’s simple. NFL coaches and players are absolute idiots, only reason he could have possibly been a Pro Bowl selection. 

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I vote we get rid of Edmunds and replace him with a linebacker from the 1980s. We will then be able to stop all the elite running offenses in the league like the Ravens, Colts, Patriots and Rams. 
 

Our 1980s LB won’t be able to defend against the pass, but that’s ok. 

 

 

Edmunds is good in pass defense?  

 

He had a 114 passer rating against and less passes defensed than Mario Addison.

 

Everyone expects him to just get better with age.........what they forget is the lesson we learned from the likes of JP Losman and Trent Edwards......... the more weaknesses they put on tape the more teams were able to exploit their weaknesses.

 

With Edmunds......this season QB's threw at his man when Edmunds was right on him because they've learned that Edmunds does not have a nose for the football..........he does not make big plays and force or collect turnovers..........so if you throw at him the worst thing that can happen is the ball ends up on the turf.

 

[thurst44]

He was also the 22-year-old captain of a top three defense (and the middle linebacker of a top three defense in his rookie season) in 2019 (and 2018). This was a weird pandemic year with no pre-season to get ready (which might just impact a team with mostly new players on the D-line and of course the loss of the mountain in the middle), he played a good portion of the season with a shoulder injury that clearly impaired him (and yet people here are calling him soft). He was playing much better after it healed, even if he made some bad plays. Yes, the Pro Bowl can be laughable, but a lot of that has to do with (1) players making it on reputation and (2) starters not wanting to play so 4th alternates wind up in Hawaii. First off, I may be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure most of Edmunds' votes came from players and coaches, not fans, so what "rep" is he coasting on? Maybe the players and coaches see things some fans don't. Also, he was voted 1st team this year. 

 

I'm not saying I think he's perfect, or that I don't see some plays that make me shake my head sometimes, but this attitude many here seem to have that he's been a total disappointment feels insane to me. I'm not in favor of extending him right away, but I am excited to see what happens behind a better DL with hopefully Star (or a similar 1T) back, with a normal season, in which (hopefully) he is not hurt.

 

Also, we were 13-3 and a game away from the Super Bowl. Edmunds was a key player on a defense that was dominant two out of his three years (every year where there wasn't a pandemic--limited pre-season and practice does mean something). Why are a good portion of the threads on this site so damn negative. I mean, the week after was one thing, but we're acting like this was a 3-13 team. 

 

I've always felt a bit weird about the phrase Bills Mafia, but I love that it was formed to try to promote fan positivity towards the players. When they attacked Stevie Johnson, the fans had his back. I'm not saying we shouldn't critique players, but some people seem to make it their mission and engage in hyperbole to tear players down. Does anybody here REALLY think Tremaine is terrible?! In any case, ultimately it's up to McD and so far they have given us pretty good reason to trust the damn process.

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I’m saying he’s doing the learning and growing that most 20, 21 and 22 year old LBs are doing while they’re still playing CFB. Whether that’s an excuse for him or not is up to you. I looked a few months ago but if I remember correctly most of the top LBs coming out this year are the same age or older than Edmunds. 
 

If folks are going to criticize Beane for not taking enough swings for players with elite traits, you can’t complain when the players with elite traits that he does take don’t pan out right away. 
 

It’s the same old song and dance every day here. 

Yeah that’s a symptom of having zero pass rush. It’s been covered pretty extensively. CBs have a hard time running around with WR/TE for a long time, I guess LBs aren’t supposed to? 

I haven’t seen anywhere that Edmunds is not considered anything but mature and hard working.   Also, he was no project player coming out of a fringe conference.  He was a celebrated player with more college experience than a lot of guys jumping to the first round early from college have.

 

There’s no persuasive argument that his age is hampering him in any way. With the same college and pro experience, simply being a year or 2 older in age doesn’t add much, if anything. 

[97bills]

37 minutes ago, Beast said:

 

And he consistantly gets voted to the Pro Bowl by his peers because he has cool dreads.

Pro bowl is a joke and they probably see all those tackles he has but don’t watch tape of him getting them 8 yards down the field 

[FireChans]

38 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

The time hasn't come for Edmunds.

 

The time has come for Milano.

 

There's really no need for this debate because we have Edmunds locked down with us for 2 more years.  The debate really should be whether we just let Milano walk or pay him top dollar.  I'm on the side that we should let him walk because when he says "top dollar" I'm assuming he's talking Khalil Mack and Von Miller type money, and he's definitely not worth that.

If Milano and Edmunds were both UFAs, I’d put money on Milano.

 

But you’re right, the timing of their deals make it moot.

 

I do find it frightening that Edmunds looked a whole lot better with Milano back. Obviously, teammates matter especially on defense. But Edmunds was supposed to be All-Pro level. Not sure he’ll ever reach that if he needs a decent LBer next him to play well.

[Jpsredemption]

His love and pro bowl appearances have more to do with his draft status than on field performance. That is pure fact. 

[FireChans]

20 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

2× Pro Bowl (2019, 2020)

 

First team All-ACC (2017)

 

Second team All-ACC (2016

He wouldn’t have made the Pro Bowl if the ILB from the Steelers stayed healthy.

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

I haven’t seen anywhere that Edmunds is not considered anything but mature and hard working.   Also, he was no project player coming out of a fringe conference.  He was a celebrated player with more college experience than a lot of guys jumping to the first round early from college have.

 

There’s no persuasive argument that his age is hampering him in any way. With the same college and pro experience, simply being a year or 2 older in age doesn’t add much, if anything. 

It has nothing to do with being mature and hard working. That’s not the age argument. Players his age are experiencing these growing pains while still in college. He’s had to endure them while in the NFL. He was able to lean on his size and speed in college, he can’t do that in the pros. 
 

The big knocks on him coming out were that he was able to get away with a lot in college because he was genetically superior. The other was that he needed to put on more size to shed blocks. There’s been some growth but not a lot... is it completely out of the realm to believe he’s still growing and adjusting to his body at 22? 
 

I really don’t know how you can discount the fact that he’s spending formative years in the NFL while most do it in college. What do you think the result is if you dump a bunch of 20 year old players into the NFL?

1 minute ago, Jpsredemption said:

His love and pro bowl appearances have more to do with his draft status than on field performance. That is pure fact. 

NFL coaches and players are looking up the round a guy was drafted in and making their decision to send a guy to the Pro Bowl because of that? 

[Jpsredemption]

It is possible that just because he’s young does not mean he will ever morph into an elite player. Amobi Okoye was 19 when he was drafted in the first round by the Texans. He never became more than a guy.