Anonymous Dolphins players: not sold on Tua

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Tua was drafted as the fifth player overall in the 2020 draft.  Is this a bigger mistake than the nine mistakes made in the 2018 draft?  And just who is deciding what a 'mistake' is? 🤔

Edited January 14, 2021 by Ridgewaycynic2013

[JMF2006]

12 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

You lose the locker room if you don't put the quarterback in there that gives your team the best chance to win right now.  Especially when you're a playoff contender.  They don't care what the current state of your franchise is.  This is on Flores.

 

They had no choice in week 17...Fitzy got the covid

[BuffaloBill]

22 hours ago, Doc said:

Not surprising.  But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season?

Josh was not coddled by the team. Fact was at the time he was the best QB on the roster. Personally, I think Fitzy was a better QB for the fins in the immediate time frame.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBill said:

Josh was not coddled by the team. Fact was at the time he was the best QB on the roster. Personally, I think Fitzy was a better QB for the fins in the immediate time frame.

 

I would agree. 

 

For Flores it worked out, at least he knows now Tua will never be a superstar QB so they can draft Josh fields or whoever best QB is  at 3 if they so want.  I think that is one of the most interesting decisions coming up in this draft.

[ndirish1978]

Tua doesn't throw receivers open, he can develop that trait. Josh didn't have it much his first year, but he has a damn cannon strapped to his shoulder so he could wait that extra half second and still force the ball in when receivers got open. I dunno how you give up on a guy after 1 year, but for the Dolphins I approve of this tactic. 

[Mat68]

7 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Tua doesn't throw receivers open, he can develop that trait. Josh didn't have it much his first year, but he has a damn cannon strapped to his shoulder so he could wait that extra half second and still force the ball in when receivers got open. I dunno how you give up on a guy after 1 year, but for the Dolphins I approve of this tactic. 

Allen had glimpses even in college of throwing big time throws.  Tight windows, deep out is 100% anticipation and Allen was money on that day 1.  I dont see what you are going to get with Tua.  Staying 100% with Tua is a significant risk.  It could get the GM and coach fired type of decision.  At 3.... you take a qb.  You can trade both 1s to the jets for 2 and get Fields.  Trade the later first and Tua for stafford.  After the qbs in the class looking much further along idk how you make that choice sitting at 3.

[prissythecat]

14 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

Tua doesn't throw receivers open, he can develop that trait. Josh didn't have it much his first year, but he has a damn cannon strapped to his shoulder so he could wait that extra half second and still force the ball in when receivers got open. I dunno how you give up on a guy after 1 year, but for the Dolphins I approve of this tactic. 

 

Its easy .  The Cardinals gave up on Rosen after 1 year.  

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, prissythecat said:

Its easy .  The Cardinals gave up on Rosen after 1 year.  

 

Different situations.  The Dols took Tua as the 2nd QB whereas the Cardinals forced themselves to settle for Rosen after Right Josh was taken.  To give up on Tua after only 1 season while Herbert is looking like a stud will be a very bad look for them.  And they're in-line for the best QB in the draft.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Doc

[prissythecat]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Different situations.  The Dols took Tua as the 2nd QB whereas the Cardinals forced themselves to settle for Rosen after Right Josh was taken.  To give up on Tua after only 1 season while Herbert is looking like a stud will be a very bad look for them.  And they're in-line for the best QB in the draft.

 

Fair point.  But if there is a Justin Fields sitting at #3  , what do they do ?  😛    I believe Fields is considered a better QB than Tua coming out?   I remember the Cardinals saying that Josh Rosen was their QB for quite a while in early 2019 before they went ahead and got Murray.

[FireChans]

21 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Different situations.  The Dols took Tua as the 2nd QB whereas the Cardinals forced themselves to settle for Rosen after Right Josh was taken.  To give up on Tua after only 1 season while Herbert is looking like a stud will be a very bad look for them.  And they're in-line for the best QB in the draft.

They fired their coach after drafting Rosen and the new coach wanted Murray.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, prissythecat said:

Fair point.  But if there is a Justin Fields sitting at #3  , what do they do ?  😛    I believe Fields is considered a better QB than Tua coming out?   I remember the Cardinals saying that Josh Rosen was their QB for quite a while in early 2019 before they went ahead and got Murray.

 

I don't.  At best it's a push.

 

1 hour ago, FireChans said:

They fired their coach after drafting Rosen and the new coach wanted Murray.

 

Yeah I mentioned that they (have the same GM/HC and) won't want to look foolish for taking Tua by moving-on from him after only a year.

[Doc Brown]

8 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

They had no choice in week 17...Fitzy got the covid

Broncos game sticks out.

[BigBuff423]

The strangest thing about all of this, was just *how* committed the Dolphins are to Tua for next season. If they had spent this year's 1st Round pick on Tua in addition to last year's based off a trade, that would make more sense to me. But with all of the Draft picks they have this season and owning Houston's top 5 pick, they're in a rare situation to be able to take a top QB in the top 5 OR, take complementary pieces and use one of the lower 1sts or a 2nd on another QB and let there be a competition for the position. 

 

Committing to Tua full on, no questions asked at this point is a risky situation for Flores and his credibility with his players, as evidenced by the article. Moreover, it does damage to the culture he's worked hard to build and establish. If he were a coach who had 7-8 years in and had several playoff victories with consistently winning records each year, he'd probably be given a wider berth to make this decision. But at the end of his second season in the dead center of the full rebuild cycle, is really odd in my mind. 

[syhuang]

8 hours ago, JMF2006 said:

 

They had no choice in week 17...Fitzy got the covid

 

Tua was named the starter well before Fitz got covid mid-week then. It's one thing Fitz got covid so Tua had to be named the starter, it's another thing that Tua was named starter when both Fitz and him were options (before Fitz had covid).

[Doc]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

The strangest thing about all of this, was just *how* committed the Dolphins are to Tua for next season. If they had spent this year's 1st Round pick on Tua in addition to last year's based off a trade, that would make more sense to me. But with all of the Draft picks they have this season and owning Houston's top 5 pick, they're in a rare situation to be able to take a top QB in the top 5 OR, take complementary pieces and use one of the lower 1sts or a 2nd on another QB and let there be a competition for the position. 

 

Committing to Tua full on, no questions asked at this point is a risky situation for Flores and his credibility with his players, as evidenced by the article. Moreover, it does damage to the culture he's worked hard to build and establish. If he were a coach who had 7-8 years in and had several playoff victories with consistently winning records each year, he'd probably be given a wider berth to make this decision. But at the end of his second season in the dead center of the full rebuild cycle, is really odd in my mind. 

 

This QB draft is Lawrence, who will go 1st overall...and then a distant 2nd place.  Meanwhile the Jets have their own Tua and after 3 years might (should) be ready to move on and take a QB 2nd overall.  So at best they're looking at the 3rd-best QB.  Now while they may be able to get a good one, like the Bills did, I just can't see them admitting they messed-up drafting Tua, and will say that the lack of OTAs, workouts and pre-season hurt him and to give him more weapons and time.

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 hour ago, BigBuff423 said:

The strangest thing about all of this, was just *how* committed the Dolphins are to Tua for next season. If they had spent this year's 1st Round pick on Tua in addition to last year's based off a trade, that would make more sense to me. But with all of the Draft picks they have this season and owning Houston's top 5 pick, they're in a rare situation to be able to take a top QB in the top 5 OR, take complementary pieces and use one of the lower 1sts or a 2nd on another QB and let there be a competition for the position. 

 

Committing to Tua full on, no questions asked at this point is a risky situation for Flores and his credibility with his players, as evidenced by the article. Moreover, it does damage to the culture he's worked hard to build and establish. If he were a coach who had 7-8 years in and had several playoff victories with consistently winning records each year, he'd probably be given a wider berth to make this decision. But at the end of his second season in the dead center of the full rebuild cycle, is really odd in my mind. 

 

I agree.

 

If Tua was a mistake or even could   be a mistake, be honest with yourself and "admit it" by drafting a QB and setting up competition which is in itself always a positive.   Tua's health record is also a factor, he  is not exactly indestructible.

 

Cardinals and Rosen is the greatest example.  You think for one second the Cardinals dont regret pick K Murray and moving on from Rosen?

[Doc]

Just now, RoyBatty is alive said:

I agree.

 

If Tua was a mistake or even could   be a mistake, be honest with yourself and "admit it" by drafting a QB and setting up competition which is in itself always a positive.   Tua's health record is also a factor, he  is not exactly indestructible.

 

Cardinals and Rosen is the greatest example.  You think for one second the Cardinals dont regret pick K Murray and moving on from Rosen?

 

If the Dols had the 1st overall pick, I'd agree with you.  But who are you taking 3rd overall/QB and staking your job on just a year after taking Tua?

[RoyBatty is alive]

9 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

If the Dols had the 1st overall pick, I'd agree with you.  But who are you taking 3rd overall/QB and staking your job on just a year after taking Tua?

 

Dont know,  have not done extensive research.  Multiple candidates: Josh Fields, Trask. Lance, Mac Jones (bet the Pats would take him if available) and the BYU kid that looks like he is 12 years old. 

 

Just because Lawrence is the obvious #1 doesn't mean the Dolphins can materially upgrade from Tua and the Dolphins have the draft capital they dont even have to take QB @ #3 unless they are sold on him.

[RaoulDuke79]

I'm not sure why anyone would be sold on Tua. What outstanding traits does he have? He seems mediocre all around. 

[Doc]

1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

Dont know,  have not done extensive research.  Multiple candidates: Josh Fields, Trask. Lance, Mac Jones (bet the Pats would take him if available) and the BYU kid that looks like he is 12 years old. 

 

Just because Lawrence is the obvious #1 doesn't mean the Dolphins can materially upgrade from Tua and the Dolphins have the draft capital they dont even have to take QB @ #3 unless they are sold on him.

 

The draft capital only means that the best they can do it take a QB at 3rd overall, since the Jags and Jets are likely to take QBs before them and won't trade out (least of all to the Dols).  They either take one at 3rd overall or don't take one until the mid-rounds.  But again, I doubt they admit they made a mistake with Tua after just 1 season that had no OTAs, minicamps or pre-season.

[stinky finger]

You can't build if you aint got the tools.

[Magox]

It’s super unusual for there to be a lot of chatter from within the organization primarily players criticizing the potential franchise rookie high end first round QB.

 

Part of it obviously is on Tua for not demonstrating that he’s the man but also on Flores.   If Flores had not benched Tua I don’t think you’d be hearing all these anonymous quotes.  He emasculated him by taking him out for Fitz in order to win the game.  I don’t think Flores realizes the psychological impact not just for Tua but for his teammates.

[JMF2006]

5 hours ago, syhuang said:

 

Tua was named the starter well before Fitz got covid mid-week then. It's one thing Fitz got covid so Tua had to be named the starter, it's another thing that Tua was named starter when both Fitz and him were options (before Fitz had covid).

 

He wasn't there to bail him out this time.

[syhuang]

10 minutes ago, JMF2006 said:

 

He wasn't there to bail him out this time.

 

Right, but Tua was named starter well before Fitz got Covid.

 

The original message you replied is below, naming Tua as starter when both Tua and Fitz were options isn't really giving Miami the best chance to win a game deciding their playoff fate.

 

Quote

You lose the locker room if you don't put the quarterback in there that gives your team the best chance to win right now.  Especially when you're a playoff contender.  They don't care what the current state of your franchise is.  This is on Flores.

 

[Doc]

8 minutes ago, Magox said:

It’s super unusual for there to be a lot of chatter from within the organization primarily players criticizing the potential franchise rookie high end first round QB.

 

Part of it obviously is on Tua for not demonstrating that he’s the man but also on Flores.   If Flores had not benched Tua I don’t think you’d be hearing all these anonymous quotes.  He emasculated him by taking him out for Fitz in order to win the game.  I don’t think Flores realizes the psychological impact not just for Tua but for his teammates.

 

Not that I'm anything but happy over any turmoil going on there, but Flores was in a tough spot.  The team was in contention for a playoff spot, hence the reason he benched Tua to go for the win against the Raiders...and it worked.  But Fitz got COVID and couldn't play in the final game anyway, not that he had any chance to win given the way their entire team played, so I'm not sure what the players are bitching about?  But hey, as long as they are pissed at Flores and Tua's pysche has seemingly been damaged, it only helps the Bills.

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

On 1/13/2021 at 7:23 AM, Doc said:

Not surprising.  But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season?

Not me

[Thurman#1]

On 1/13/2021 at 11:25 PM, warrior9 said:

I would highly doubt that. Josh was clearly the best QB on the team, Tua is not.

 

Josh worked incredibly hard and was a natural leader... it seems as though Tua is not.

 

Also, the coaches trusted Josh to throw the ball more than 10 yards down field.

 

 

I wouldn't doubt it at all.

 

Agreed on all you say about Josh's positives, even at that early age, but the Fins players say Tua is a hard worker too.

 

The difference is that in Josh's rookie year there was no Fitz here. We might have had the same problems if we'd kept - wow, I couldn't even remember his name, just had to look it up, honestly - Tyrod and played Josh before he surpassed him.

 

Although I doubt we'd have heard about it. This Bills team pulls together. I don't think we'd have seen publicly aired doubts like this even if players were privately doubtful. 

 

It's a wonderful thing Josh has developed the way he did. We are so lucky to have him.

 

4 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The draft capital only means that the best they can do it take a QB at 3rd overall, since the Jags and Jets are likely to take QBs before them and won't trade out (least of all to the Dols).  They either take one at 3rd overall or don't take one until the mid-rounds.  But again, I doubt they admit they made a mistake with Tua after just 1 season that had no OTAs, minicamps or pre-season.

 

 

This seems reasonable to me.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Thurman#1

[HappyDays]

You can't just compare every bad rookie QB to Josh Allen and call it a day. Some rookie QBs are simply not good enough to warrant an uncontested 2nd chance.

 

No one is saying a rookie QB should step in and light it up all year, but you at least want to see top tier potential and a line of improvement over the course of the season. Allen showed both, Tua has shown neither. If anything I think he ended the year worse than he started. Allen made way too many mistakes his rookie year and was still learning to read the field but he had a bunch of signature plays where you could envision the development track. A rookie QB with extreme highs and extreme lows that gets better throughout the season is not comparable to a consistently middling QB.

 

What was Tua's signature play this year? What did he improve on? What special traits has he shown? I think the answer to all of those question is "nothing". IMO the Dolphins should go the Rosen route. I guess the one possible wildcard is Tua's injury. Maybe after another offseason of recovery he'll transform his game. The Dolphins need to figure that out soon. It's not often you have your pick of the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the draft.

[Punching Bag]

10 hours ago, Doc said:

 

Not that I'm anything but happy over any turmoil going on there, but Flores was in a tough spot.  The team was in contention for a playoff spot, hence the reason he benched Tua to go for the win against the Raiders...and it worked.  But Fitz got COVID and couldn't play in the final game anyway, not that he had any chance to win given the way their entire team played, so I'm not sure what the players are bitching about?  But hey, as long as they are pissed at Flores and Tua's pysche has seemingly been damaged, it only helps the Bills.

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/sidelines/bills-josh-allen-other-resilient-qbs-continue-to-prove-doubters-wrong

Quote

At 24 years old, Allen is prime evidence that the most important quality in evaluating whether a quarterback can lead a franchise is one that doesn't get enough attention: mental toughness.

 

If Tua's "pysche" is injured by being pulled when he is ineffective when rest of team cannot carry him and is replaced in game then the Miami Aquatic Mammals need to get a new QB whether by draft, free agent or trade.  There will be a new OC so all QBs will be on same level on scheme unless new OC brings a QB with him.

 

Oh and Fitzpatrick is a free agent and not likely to remain in Mijami with Chan Gailiey leaving. 

[warrior9]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

I wouldn't doubt it at all.

 

Agreed on all you say about Josh's positives, even at that early age, but the Fins players say Tua is a hard worker too.

 

The difference is that in Josh's rookie year there was no Fitz here. We might have had the same problems if we'd kept - wow, I couldn't even remember his name, just had to look it up, honestly - Tyrod and played Josh before he surpassed him.

 

Although I doubt we'd have heard about it. This Bills team pulls together. I don't think we'd have seen publicly aired doubts like this even if players were privately doubtful. 

 

It's a wonderful thing Josh has developed the way he did. We are so lucky to have him.

 

 

 

This seems reasonable to me.

Well Beane said that everyone saw Josh's talent and the lack of talent on the team was making Josh look worse (I believe he said that last week). He said something about receivers not being where they need to be, etc. 

[BillsFan619]

On 1/13/2021 at 6:21 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Interesting read and one that does not bode well for a team I thought was on it's way up. Tua's "golden child" treatment didn't sit well with some Dolphins players.

Was this article really written by High Football IQ and was it his way of apologizing to all of us for all of his Tua posts this season?

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Losing the week 17 game to get into the playoffs... while playing terribly?  I'm not surprised his teammates aren't sold.  

[Doc]

21 minutes ago, dneveu said:

Losing the week 17 game to get into the playoffs... while playing terribly?  I'm not surprised his teammates aren't sold.  

 

Yeah but with the way their whole team got thrashed...who can criticize Tua specifically?  And Fitz wasn't available because of COVID.  If anyone thinks he would have been the difference in the game...

[Chaos]

Josh is bigger, stronger, faster & more accurate than Tua.  Most of that will never change. Tua will never be able to compete with Josh.