Figster Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, SageAgainstTheMachine said: The notion that they could insert him as a starter in his rookie season, probably before he was ready, and then move on from him after they almost went to the playoffs 2 years ahead of schedule is ridiculous. Obviously he looked limited at times but if Flores had just kept him behind Fitz on the bench this conversation wouldn't be happening. Adjusting his throw from hip surgery I think might be Tua's biggest challenge going forward IMO. The natural pin point accuracy that Tua displayed in Alabama before the injury did not seem nearly as evident in his 1st season as a rookie IMO. If Tua Tagovailoa does not regain the most important aspect of his play that got him to where he is today. Tua becomes an average at best QB in the NFL throwing at a below average velocity. I also think from a leadership standpoint and understanding of the Gailey play book Ryan Fitzpatrick gives Tua impossible shoes to fill. On the other hand most rookie QB's do not show the same degree of success Tua enjoyed in his 1st season. Time will tell... Edited January 13, 2021 by Figster 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 46 minutes ago, Don Otreply said: Tua’s biggest issue as I see it is that his hip having been “gruesomely” broken as was stated by a Doctor in an article I read recently, and that it is effecting his throwing motion, and will it ever get back to were he can rotate his lower body into his throwing motion as he did pre-injury. Not quoting, but paraphrasing the article. Additionally he is physically small, and his frame isn’t going to support much more muscle mass to get stronger, he currently appears to need to throw his entire body into throws of intermediate or longer distances, and even then, there is not much velocity/speed in the balls flight. I see him as an above average game manager at his peak. Jmo. Agree. That's really the key: is Tua fully recovered from his injury and is his throwing motion as good as it can get now, given the limitations imposed by the injury? Or can he spend the off-season with physical therapy to increase range of motion and strengthen muscles, then methodically work to recover the throwing motion that was built into his muscle memory before the injury? Perhaps Miami is "all in" on Tua because they believe the latter is fully possible. They are the people who are in the best position to know. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Agree. That's really the key: is Tua fully recovered from his injury and is his throwing motion as good as it can get now, given the limitations imposed by the injury? Or can he spend the off-season with physical therapy to increase range of motion and strengthen muscles, then methodically work to recover the throwing motion that was built into his muscle memory before the injury? Perhaps Miami is "all in" on Tua because they believe the latter is fully possible. They are the people who are in the best position to know. Gaileys resignation suggests the person that probably knows best may not have been completely sold on Tua IMO. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florida Bills Fanatic Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Living in Florida, I've had a good time poking fun at the Dolphins fans. A pretty common theme among them is that they should have drafted Herbert. After watching their rookie seasons, I have to agree. There are even a fair number of people here that believe that letting Tannehill leave was a big mistake. I've also watched most of the Miami games this season. Tua's accuracy stats are heavily skewed due to the high percentage of really short passes that he throws. He has a fairly long throwing motion which gives D-linemen a chance to react and deflect passes. His longer passes seem to lack the velocity that you see from successful QB's in the league. He acts as though he doesn't see the field well, which could be a function of his stature. Many Miami fans want their team to use the third overall pick to take another QB to create a competition in training camp. Most don't think it will happen because the owner (Ross) is enamored with Tua and his Alabama career. It's great to watch all of the controversy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektowaga Chad Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? I would imagine they did, and them having doubts is normal in my opinion. The big difference here is the bills kept those worries in house, these dolphin players making it known to the public is a lot more worrisome because it tells me those players don't trust the coaching staff or GM staff to do the right thing/make tye right call Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wjag Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said: Interesting read and one that does not bode well for a team I thought was on it's way up. Tua's "golden child" treatment didn't sit well with some Dolphins players. This falls squarely on the coach. He rushed the playing of Tua and then pulled him twice. You could not have scripted it more poorly, especially with Fitz out and Tua getting blown out to end the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaDigital Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 He's a scroungy little bum. If they're smart (they're not) they trade 3 back to houston for Watson (hope they don't) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Fischer Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? Starting Josh in 2018 didn't cost the Bills a playoff berth. I think Flores is a good coach but he mishandled the QB situation by benching Fitz while he was cooking and the team was winning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, Figster said: Gaileys resignation suggests the person that probably knows best may not have been completely sold on Tua IMO. Gailey would know best about where Tua is now. Gailey would not, all respect, be in the best position to know what is or isn't possible with rehab. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Good discussions. My post wasn't meant t denigrate Josh or prop-up Tua, just to wonder if you could find, say, 3 Bills players after the 2018 season to say the same thing, at least as far as how Josh didn't have what it takes to succeed despite the elite traits (and while Tua may not have them, he has the pedigree coming from Alabama and having won a national championship). I would love nothing more than for Tua to fail and the Dols to spin their wheels with him for years, but as we've seen with Josh, you have to give them a little more time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Florida Bills Fanatic said: Living in Florida, I've had a good time poking fun at the Dolphins fans. A pretty common theme among them is that they should have drafted Herbert. After watching their rookie seasons, I have to agree. There are even a fair number of people here that believe that letting Tannehill leave was a big mistake. I've also watched most of the Miami games this season. Tua's accuracy stats are heavily skewed due to the high percentage of really short passes that he throws. He has a fairly long throwing motion which gives D-linemen a chance to react and deflect passes. His longer passes seem to lack the velocity that you see from successful QB's in the league. He acts as though he doesn't see the field well, which could be a function of his stature. Many Miami fans want their team to use the third overall pick to take another QB to create a competition in training camp. Most don't think it will happen because the owner (Ross) is enamored with Tua and his Alabama career. It's great to watch all of the controversy. Tua still has the quickest release in the NFL which to some extent makes up for the lower velocity IMO. Still, If I'm Miami, you have to good of a team to go into the season without a good backup plan IMO.If someones there at 3rd overall worthy of the pick and you like him. I'm getting another signal caller. This is coming from a big Tua fan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted January 13, 2021 Author Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, benderbender said: Hate to say it, but the Dolphins have handled the Tua situation perfectly: They didn't start Tua in the majority of games so they can claim plausible deniability with his projected ceiling They obviously came to the conclusion about how good he was when they listed him as "injured" instead of starting Fitz due to performance Fitz was in on the scam because he never bitched and moaned on social media before much less cried in interviews The final result is Miami can now trade Tua for a more valuable commodity with minimal compensation because they can be "talked into" moving off of Tua. It was their plan all along. Tip of the cap. You'd have to be some kind of special to trade Watson for Tua. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 5 minutes ago, wjag said: This falls squarely on the coach. He rushed the playing of Tua and then pulled him twice. You could not have scripted it more poorly, especially with Fitz out and Tua getting blown out to end the season. Could anyone imagine the Bills pulling Josh for a veteran, even Fitz? I think the players would have rioted. The fans would have rioted. Well, that's partly unfair, because of course the Bills fans had a longer, closer front-row-seat to "Pickspatrick" and his time-proven tendency to throw an interception just when the game is on the line, whereas the Dolphins fans and other players (I think) still see him as the QB who could take them there. But the thing is, when it's the 4th quarter and something is needed, seems to be when Josh "levels up" and plays his very hardest, sometimes too hard. That's what you need from your franchise guy, so to pull a young QB you've been starting - isn't that tantamount to saying you don't think he has it in him to "level up" and bring it when he most needs to be clutch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Figster said: Tua still has the quickest release in the NFL which to some extent makes up for the lower velocity IMO. Still, If I'm Miami, you have to good of a team to go into the season without a good backup plan IMO.If someones there at 3rd overall worthy of the pick and you like him. I'm getting another signal caller. This is coming from a big Tua fan... Where did you get this from? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, PromoTheRobot said: You'd have to be some kind of special to trade Watson for Tua. Yeah, that's my reaction - that's a Bill O'Brien level move. 3 minutes ago, Figster said: Tua still has the quickest release in the NFL which to some extent makes up for the lower velocity IMO. Still, If I'm Miami, you have to good of a team to go into the season without a good backup plan IMO.If someones there at 3rd overall worthy of the pick and you like him. I'm getting another signal caller. This is coming from a big Tua fan... I'm rather puzzled by this. Perhaps you could explain more, so we don't talk past each other. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? After watching Peterman start the season?.....No. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: Where did you get this from? Article I was reading awhile back referenced it If I remember correctly. Let me see If Ican find something on it again for you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: After watching Peterman start the season?.....No. True. It's all relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Because they had a better QB on the roster. Players want to win and if they feel like the organization is committing to anything other than winning, they get annoyed. Fitzpatrick CLEARLY was the QB who gave them the best chance to win this year. 2 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? No, because Allen was the best QB on the roster. Playing him gave them the best chance to win. If they would have stuck with Peterman, the players would have had similar complaints. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Figster Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: Yeah, that's my reaction - that's a Bill O'Brien level move. I'm rather puzzled by this. Perhaps you could explain more, so we don't talk past each other. https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2819447-tua-tagovailoa-is-incredible-cfb-qb-but-is-he-a-tank-worthy-nfl-prospect If you scroll down it clocks Tua's release equal to Aaron Rodgers. I was reading another article that said fastest release or one of the fastest. ( .35 ) Edited January 13, 2021 by Figster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 12 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: You'd have to be some kind of special to trade Watson for Tua. The Texans franchise is in utter chaos so right now, trading Watson is on the table. One of the Texans biggest fault has been to over-support "good god fearing" people and right now that is largely driven by Jack Esterby. Deshaun Watson wants out and I cant blame him. The Texans desperately need frat picks. I could see the brain dead Texans trading for Tua. Tua does two several for the Texans: 1) It provides PR cover for the organization which is desperately needed. 2) Texans need draft picks and the Dolphins have them. 3) Tua is by all accounts a great honest, god fearing person which the Texans and their ownership has always covetted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 This has a bit more of the article and one of the Dolphins defenders references Josh https://www.totalprosports.com/2021/01/13/anonymous-dolphins-players-speak-against-team-having-tua-tagovailoa-as-the-qb-in-2021/ It appears Josh has their respect "One defensive player said he isn’t impressed with Tagovailoa’s ball velocity or arm strength or ability to make off-schedule plays with his legs. So he ultimately questions whether Tagovailoa will ever be able to match the feats of other quarterbacks in the AFC such as Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes or Deshaun Watson. “Those are the boys we got to beat, right?” this player said. “It looks right now like that’s going to be a big challenge.”" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said: The Texans franchise is in utter chaos so right now, trading Watson is on the table. One of the Texans biggest fault has been to over-support "good god fearing" people and right now that is largely driven by Jack Esterby. Deshaun Watson wants out and I cant blame him. The Texans desperately need frat picks. I could see the brain dead Texans trading for Tua. Tua does two several for the Texans: 1) It provides PR cover for the organization which is desperately needed. 2) Texans need draft picks and the Dolphins have them. 3) Tua is by all accounts a great honest, god fearing person which the Texans and their ownership has always covetted. The Texans aren't trading him. Much less being dictated to where he'll be traded. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 What were those players watching? They didn't see the jaw dropping athleticism, or the cannon arm? Weird, but I thought the Dolphins had it all buttoned up? Thought Flores was an amazing Coach? Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoyBatty is alive Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Doc said: The Texans aren't trading him. Much less being dictated to where he'll be traded. Yeah right. Just like they would NEVER trade Deandre Hopkins for an over the hill running back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Just now, Straight Hucklebuck said: What were those players watching? They didn't see the jaw dropping athleticism, or the cannon arm? Weird, but I thought the Dolphins had it all buttoned up? Thought Flores was an amazing Coach? Strange. He's the new QB whisperer, like Belicheat is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bray Wyatt Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, Figster said: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2819447-tua-tagovailoa-is-incredible-cfb-qb-but-is-he-a-tank-worthy-nfl-prospect If you scroll down it clocks Tua's release equal to Aaron Rodgers. I was reading another article that said fastest release or one of the fastest. ( .35 ) that example they use in the video I have not seen him throw like that in the pros. Perhaps his injury has slowed him down on that regard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straight Hucklebuck Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Bray Wyatt said: that example they use in the video I have not seen him throw like that in the pros. Perhaps his injury has slowed him down on that regard Greg Cosell said that Tua has lost arm strength since the hip injury. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, Freddie's Dead said: Man, I hope not. Fitz as a Cheat? <shudder> If so he will be first New England QB to write a tell all book. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 So this is anonymous, right? 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 I dont think josh was meant to be starting Peterman was just sooooo bad lol dolphins players had to experience missing out on the playoffs likely because their best qb wasn't playing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan_34 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Doc said: Not surprising. But I wonder if anyone had the same thoughts about Josh after his first season? Very good point. Watching Tua play, it seems he lost the ability to turn and step into his throws. Anything long the ball sails. Maybe its mechanics, maybe its the hip- at this point I am not sure but he does nothing for me so he should stay put in Miami lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
947 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 Thank God Miami took Tua instead of Herbert. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colfax Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said: He might as well complete the AFC East trifecta or whatever the term is for all 4. nah. I want Fitz to make the playoffs, in the NFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 36 minutes ago, Doc said: The Texans aren't trading him. Much less being dictated to where he'll be traded. You 100 percent do not know that. Don’t announce it like it’s an established fact. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, 947 said: Thank God Miami took Tua instead of Herbert. I'd love to hear the Miami war room debate about Tua vs Herbert last year. Miami fans were absolutely dying to get Tua and would have been crushed if they took Herbert. I wonder if the fan's craziness for Tua had anything to do with the pick, or am I just dumb for thinking the teams care what the fans want...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 50 minutes ago, Figster said: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2819447-tua-tagovailoa-is-incredible-cfb-qb-but-is-he-a-tank-worthy-nfl-prospect If you scroll down it clocks Tua's release equal to Aaron Rodgers. I was reading another article that said fastest release or one of the fastest. ( .35 ) OK, so it’s talking about his actual throwing motion from start to release. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsfan89 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 The Dolphins only hope if they want to be anything more than a good but not great team is if they either go all in on a trade for Watson or if they manage to draft another QB and hit. I am not sold on Tua and even if they go out and use their first 3 picks and some cap space on offense to help him out I just don't see it working beyond maybe winning 11 games and a playoff game before falling to an elite team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 8 minutes ago, CapeBreton said: I'd love to hear the Miami war room debate about Tua vs Herbert last year. Miami fans were absolutely dying to get Tua and would have been crushed if they took Herbert. I wonder if the fan's craziness for Tua had anything to do with the pick, or am I just dumb for thinking the teams care what the fans want...? It’s possible. It’s insane that they took Tua at 5 with all the medical questions, when Herbert was just sitting there for them. The Phins had three first round picks last year and may have whiffed on all three, although the tackle they drafted played pretty well, despite being a reach at that spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penfield45 Posted January 13, 2021 Share Posted January 13, 2021 1 hour ago, RoyBatty is alive said: The Texans franchise is in utter chaos so right now, trading Watson is on the table. One of the Texans biggest fault has been to over-support "good god fearing" people and right now that is largely driven by Jack Esterby. Deshaun Watson wants out and I cant blame him. The Texans desperately need frat picks. I could see the brain dead Texans trading for Tua. Tua does two several for the Texans: 1) It provides PR cover for the organization which is desperately needed. 2) Texans need draft picks and the Dolphins have them. 3) Tua is by all accounts a great honest, god fearing person which the Texans and their ownership has always covetted. If the Texans trade Watson to Miami I hope the entire franchise burns to the ground. How dumb do you have to be to trade a top 5 QB to an AFC opponent. Lets hope they hire whoever Watson wants as HC and he shuts up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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