Will Deshaun Watson get traded? Could he land in AFCE?

[Alphadawg7]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think you are. I think they can be good in 2022. Maybe Superbowl good, yes... maybe 4 years... but I think that with good decision making they can be a playoff team again in 2022. 

I don’t know, that team is one of the worst rosters in the NFL.  With a top 5 QB having an MVP level season statistically they won 4 games and lost a lot of games badly.  Put 90% of the other starting QBs on that team this year and they push Jax for the number 1 overall pick.  
 

They still don’t have a HC or even know if the GM is any good.  With the reduced draft picks too, the new GM is looking at a STEEP hill to climb.  I mean you’re asking that GM to be perfect in every decison he makes and hiring the perfect HC to even sniff that optimism.  That is a lot to ask.  
 

I don’t think it’s realistic to think this team can rebound by 2022.  I mean that’s only one more season away.  You really think this unproven GM with no first round pick this year is going to rebuild this CFL level roster outside Watson between just this offseason and next?

 

Sorry bud, for me that just isn’t realistic.  Impossible, no, but HIGHLY improbable.  

[JoPoy88]

Just now, TheFunPolice said:

Texans are easily the worst opening right now. 

 

Toxic culture, a seemingly untrustworthy Easterby (the former team chaplain) running the show, no draft picks, disgruntled star QB.

 

We've seen the importance of culture and morale on winning. Houston is a mess, and it doesn't sound like it is getting better. 

 

 

Exactly right and this is why you’ll see more of what is now being reported today: Colts DC Eberflus turned down a HC interview with the Texans. The consequences of this inexcusable mismanagement won’t end with Watson.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I don’t know, that team is one of the worst rosters in the NFL.  With a top 5 QB having an MVP level season statistically they won 4 games and lost a lot of games badly.  Put 90% of the other starting QBs on that team this year and they push Jax for the number 1 overall pick.  
 

They still don’t have a HC or even know if the GM is any good.  With the reduced draft picks too, the new GM is looking at a STEEP hill to climb.  I mean you’re asking that GM to be perfect in every decison he makes and hiring the perfect HC to even sniff that optimism.  That is a lot to ask.  
 

I don’t think it’s realistic to think this team can rebound by 2022.  I mean that’s only one more season away.  You really think this unproven GM with no first round pick this year is going to rebuild this CFL level roster outside Watson between just this offseason and next?

 

Sorry bud, for me that just isn’t realistic.  Impossible, no, but HIGHLY improbable.  

 

They also lost all 4 of their lost division games by a whisker. I think they have the whole cap to work with in 2022 aside from Watson and are in a division that, subject to Lawrence changing things, is eminently winnable. I don't think it is as hard as people think. Brandon Beane rebuilt the Bills entire offense in two seasons.... he did that with free agents and trades. I know they have to rebuild the D, maybe more urgently, but I am also not claiming they will be 13-3 in 2022. I think they could be a 9 or 10 win team with some decent moves and a top 5 QB though, absolutely.  

[Boxcar]

21 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

If we played along with the idea it is possible (it isn't) I think there are only 6 possibly 7 teams in the NFL who wouldn't be at least interested in doing their due dilligence:

 

Kansas City and Buffalo - the only two teams in the NFL with QBs under 30 who have played at a level above Watson. 

 

Seattle - Russ is 32 and has slowed down the stretch for two seasons in a row now but he is Seattle's best ever player. He is the franchise. They are in for the long haul. 

 

Green Bay - this one might be more controversial given Aaron is getting up there in age, but the Packers spent a 1st on their QB of the future last April. They are not admitting a mistake on that without seeing the guy on the field. They might regret it.

 

LAC - Herbert had a great rookie year and is under cost control for the next 4 years. 

 

Bengals - similar to the above. Burrow wasn't quite as dynamic as Herbert and has had the ACL but Cincy are staying the course.

 

They are the 6.... the 7th possible is Jacksonville because they sit with a chance to take a generational prospect. I think they likely stand pat and pick Lawrence though I suspect you would at least think about the proven commodity. 

 

That leaves 25 teams who would be at the very least interested in exploring Watson if he was available.

 

Wouldn't it be funny if the Dolphins used the Texans' pick in part to get Deshaun Watson?

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They also lost all 4 of their lost division games by a whisker. I think they have the whole cap to work with in 2022 aside from Watson and are in a division that, subject to Lawrence changing things, is eminently winnable. I don't think it is as hard as people think. Brandon Beane rebuilt the Bills entire offense in two seasons.... he did that with free agents and trades. I know they have to rebuild the D, maybe more urgently, but I am also not claiming they will be 13-3 in 2022. I think they could be a 9 or 10 win team with some decent moves and a top 5 QB though, absolutely.  

 

But thats not accurate about Beane in retrospect.  Beane had to rebuild a lot more BEFORE he could rebuild the offense.  He didn't just build a super power offense in 2 offseasons.  This is our 4th year in the '"process" And Beane did it with a LOT of draft capital, which is the polar opposite of what Texans have.  And Beane is literally a top 3, if not the top GM in the NFL right now with a top 3 HC leading this team too.  Not many can replicate what he did just on the fact not many are as good as he is.  Not to mention, Beane acquired the draft capital by trading some of its best assets at the time, including our starting LT, top WR, top DT, and our starting DB.

 

Furthermore, the turning point for the offense was trading TWO first round picks for Diggs, again, something the Texans don't have the luxury of doing.  Bills also already had a solid OL, something Texans dont have.  

 

Sorry bud, the two situations are not remotely comparable.  Like I said, that roster is terrible top to bottom, and even you know that.  Bills roster was pretty strong outside a few skill players on offense when Beane rebuilt the offense and had the draft capital to pull it off both in trading around the draft to get their guys and also trading picks to land an elite WR, something the Texans just gave away for a 2nd round pick.

 

For me, its HIGHLY unlikely Houston can be a playoff team in 2022 with that roster right now.  They are gonna add a couple of rookies this year, no premium prospects.  Thats it outside FA signings until next year.  Just no way they rebuild the OL, the defense, and the skill positions this offseason and next.  They have no run game, no OL, below average weapons at WR with their best guy suspended for PED violations that is also made of glass and more than likely wont even be back with the team next year despite Watson wanting him back (something else that will piss Watson off more if they dont bring Fuller back).  I mean they almost traded him before the deadline as it is.  

 

You are being quite unrealistic on the timeline of this rebuild IMHO.  And I think Watson sees the STEEP uphill challenge to get back to being a contender, and now the team violating their word and trust with him is only making it worse.  

 

Again, is it possible, sure, anything is possible.  But you are asking for a first time GM to bat .1000 on every decision (including HC hire) and then some for an 18 month turn around to reach the playoffs.  Not something I would bet on personally.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Returntoglory said:

Obviously we have different views on this subject and most likely many other issues, football related and otherwise.

As I stated earlier, if he was promised a sit down to share his thoughts and views by the owner, then that promise should have been honored.

That's what I read when this was being discussed on t.v earlier. It said that it would be discussed or get his input or something along those lines but they didn't and he found out on twitter (think it was twitter).

 

Yeah I think that is a little messed up if they told him they would talk with him about it and then did that. Just another thing on top of everything else that makes him not trust the owner and organization. 

[FireChans]

11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But thats not accurate about Beane in retrospect.  Beane had to rebuild a lot more BEFORE he could rebuild the offense.  He didn't just build a super power offense in 2 offseasons.  This is our 4th year in the '"process" And Beane did it with a LOT of draft capital, which is the polar opposite of what Texans have.  And Beane is literally a top 3, if not the top GM in the NFL right now with a top 3 HC leading this team too.  Not many can replicate what he did just on the fact not many are as good as he is.  Not to mention, Beane acquired the draft capital by trading some of its best assets at the time, including our starting LT, top WR, top DT, and our starting DB.

 

Furthermore, the turning point for the offense was trading TWO first round picks for Diggs, again, something the Texans don't have the luxury of doing.  Bills also already had a solid OL, something Texans dont have.  

 

Sorry bud, the two situations are not remotely comparable.  Like I said, that roster is terrible top to bottom, and even you know that.  Bills roster was pretty strong outside a few skill players on offense when Beane rebuilt the offense and had the draft capital to pull it off both in trading around the draft to get their guys and also trading picks to land an elite WR, something the Texans just gave away for a 2nd round pick.

 

For me, its HIGHLY unlikely Houston can be a playoff team in 2022 with that roster right now.  They are gonna add a couple of rookies this year, no premium prospects.  Thats it outside FA signings until next year.  Just no way they rebuild the OL, the defense, and the skill positions this offseason and next.  They have no run game, no OL, below average weapons at WR with their best guy suspended for PED violations that is also made of glass and more than likely wont even be back with the team next year despite Watson wanting him back (something else that will piss Watson off more if they dont bring Fuller back).  I mean they almost traded him before the deadline as it is.  

 

You are being quite unrealistic on the timeline of this rebuild IMHO.  And I think Watson sees the STEEP uphill challenge to get back to being a contender, and now the team violating their word and trust with him is only making it worse.  

 

Again, is it possible, sure, anything is possible.  But you are asking for a first time GM to bat .1000 on every decision (including HC hire) and then some for an 18 month turn around to reach the playoffs.  Not something I would bet on personally.

I will bet that the Texans are in the hunt and either make the playoffs or end up an 8-9 seed next season.

 

They have Watson. That’s literally the most important franchise cornerstone. A few decent FA’s and they are .500. 
 

Trading away a franchise QB for picks is a for sure way to not make the postseason in 2 years. 

[Alphadawg7]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

I will bet that the Texans are in the hunt and either make the playoffs or end up an 8-9 seed next season.

 

They have Watson. That’s literally the most important franchise cornerstone. A few decent FA’s and they are .500. 
 

Trading away a franchise QB for picks is a for sure way to not make the postseason in 2 years. 

 

8 or 9 seed = NO PLAYOFFS.  LMAO.

[FireChans]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

8 or 9 seed = NO PLAYOFFS.  LMAO.

Yeah so they’ll be close to a playoff spot next season and be in good position to make it in 2021.

 

”Texans should trade Watson because they won’t be Super Bowl contenders next year” is a dumb bad argument. 
 

Again, Bills fans who say “why don’t they just trade their franchise QB for picks” must have thought the playoff drought was a fever dream.

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, FireChans said:

Yeah so they’ll be close to a playoff spot next season and be in good position to make it in 2021.

 

”Texans should trade Watson because they won’t be Super Bowl contenders next year” is a dumb bad argument. 
 

Again, Bills fans who say “why don’t they just trade their franchise QB for picks” must have thought the playoff drought was a fever dream.

 

This is certainly a tough point to argue against.

 

But I will say the AFC South is far more wide open than the AFC East ever has been. The Tanny Magic (aka Derrick Henry) wont last much longer in Nashville. Neither will Rivers in Indy. Sure, Jags get Lawrence, but they are still the Jags and have a long way to go. They are more likely to end up like Darnold and the Jets than be successful.

 

With the AFC South always up for grabs, I think it's just as possible to trade Watson away and win the division within a year or two as it is possible to build around him and win with him.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

But thats not accurate about Beane in retrospect.  Beane had to rebuild a lot more BEFORE he could rebuild the offense.  He didn't just build a super power offense in 2 offseasons.  This is our 4th year in the '"process" And Beane did it with a LOT of draft capital, which is the polar opposite of what Texans have.  And Beane is literally a top 3, if not the top GM in the NFL right now with a top 3 HC leading this team too.  Not many can replicate what he did just on the fact not many are as good as he is.  Not to mention, Beane acquired the draft capital by trading some of its best assets at the time, including our starting LT, top WR, top DT, and our starting DB.

 

Furthermore, the turning point for the offense was trading TWO first round picks for Diggs, again, something the Texans don't have the luxury of doing.  Bills also already had a solid OL, something Texans dont have.  

 

Sorry bud, the two situations are not remotely comparable.  Like I said, that roster is terrible top to bottom, and even you know that.  Bills roster was pretty strong outside a few skill players on offense when Beane rebuilt the offense and had the draft capital to pull it off both in trading around the draft to get their guys and also trading picks to land an elite WR, something the Texans just gave away for a 2nd round pick.

 

For me, its HIGHLY unlikely Houston can be a playoff team in 2022 with that roster right now.  They are gonna add a couple of rookies this year, no premium prospects.  Thats it outside FA signings until next year.  Just no way they rebuild the OL, the defense, and the skill positions this offseason and next.  They have no run game, no OL, below average weapons at WR with their best guy suspended for PED violations that is also made of glass and more than likely wont even be back with the team next year despite Watson wanting him back (something else that will piss Watson off more if they dont bring Fuller back).  I mean they almost traded him before the deadline as it is.  

 

You are being quite unrealistic on the timeline of this rebuild IMHO.  And I think Watson sees the STEEP uphill challenge to get back to being a contender, and now the team violating their word and trust with him is only making it worse.  

 

Again, is it possible, sure, anything is possible.  But you are asking for a first time GM to bat .1000 on every decision (including HC hire) and then some for an 18 month turn around to reach the playoffs.  Not something I would bet on personally.

 

I don't think you are right Alpha. Excluding Josh (Texans already have their Quarterback) of the current Bills starters on offense only ONE was here before the 2019 offseason - Dion Dawkins. Since then Beane has added: Feliciano, Williams, Morse, Brown, Beasley through free agency, Singletary, Ford and Knox through the draft and Diggs by a trade. The Texans in 2022 have even more cap space than Beane had going into that 2019 offseason and they have nine picks in the 2022 draft too. 

 

Okay they have to commit resources to the defense at the same time too, but they don't have to be a perfect team to compete in that relatively weak division by 2022. Rebuilds in the NFL do not have to be 3 or 4 year jobs anymore. The Dolphins are yet further proof of that. They were the worst roster in the NFL the first half of 2019 to a 10 win team in 2020. Yes, they had more draft capital but they didn't have the benefit of the top 5 Quarterback. 

[MJS]

I can't see a new coach or GM trading him. Watson is literally the only attractive thing about taking those jobs. So you're telling me they will come in and then trade the only good thing they have to build around?

[HOUSE]

We won't come to the AFC East because 4 GMs were selected without his permission

[Alphadawg7]

58 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I don't think you are right Alpha. Excluding Josh (Texans already have their Quarterback) of the current Bills starters on offense only ONE was here before the 2019 offseason - Dion Dawkins. Since then Beane has added: Feliciano, Williams, Morse, Brown, Beasley through free agency, Singletary, Ford and Knox through the draft and Diggs by a trade. The Texans in 2022 have even more cap space than Beane had going into that 2019 offseason and they have nine picks in the 2022 draft too. 

 

Okay they have to commit resources to the defense at the same time too, but they don't have to be a perfect team to compete in that relatively weak division by 2022. Rebuilds in the NFL do not have to be 3 or 4 year jobs anymore. The Dolphins are yet further proof of that. They were the worst roster in the NFL the first half of 2019 to a 10 win team in 2020. Yes, they had more draft capital but they didn't have the benefit of the top 5 Quarterback. 

 

Again though Gunner, you are completely overlooking all the work Beane did BEFORE he could invest so heavily in the offense.  You think Beane can spend so much draft capital on offense if he didnt already have a strong defensive unit in place?  No not at all.  You think he can trade up for guys like Ford, Singletary and Knox in one draft then trade for Diggs with our first and some change if he didn't have all that draft capital and also already put critical pieces elsewhere on defense already?  

 

You are taking the last 2 years of our 4 year rebuild and using it as proof he can turn around a bad roster into a playoff team in 18 months while severely lacking the draft capital to do it.  

 

Again, you are asking for a FIRST time GM to bat a thousand on every draft pick, every FA signing, and every coaching hire in his first 18 months.  Beane traded quality starters away in his first 2 seasons as GM in order to put the team in position to make the draft picks they did and the trades they did.  You are skipping all that and taking a first time GM with less than their own starting draft picks and expecting the same.  

 

Beane in his first 3 drafts had in his possession a total of 4 first round picks, Houston has one.  Beane used the 4 picks to add Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and Diggs.  Substantial additions to the team, including 3 pro bowlers, a first team all-pro and 2nd team all-pro this year.  Not to mention all the extra picks he had in the subsequent rounds he had to work with to draft and trade around the draft with.  

 

Bills had the foundations of a good defense the first year McD was here when they drafted White too.  That first year defense is substantially better than what Houston is starting with.  Our OL was in a lot better shape too than Houstons before we started adding the skill players.  

 

Again, you are skipping all that work and then some, including finding the ideal HC for this team just because they have Watson already entering his prime.  Drew Brees passed for 5000 yards several seasons in a row WITHOUT making the playoffs.  How many big statistical seasons has Stafford had without sniffing the playoffs?  How about Matt Ryan?  Watson isnt enough on his own, he had an MVP level season statistically, and his best as a pro, and won 4 games.  And now he is also likely to lose his favorite weapon in Fuller next year too before starting to rebuild an already bare cupboard.

 

All good bud, I enjoy the dialogue, just think you are grossly over estimating the potential of that teams timeline and at the same under estimating what Beane did before we could really take the next step. 

 

 

Edited January 8, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again though Gunner, you are completely overlooking all the work Beane did BEFORE he could invest so heavily in the offense.  You think Beane can spend so much draft capital on offense if he didnt already have a strong defensive unit in place?  No not at all.  You think he can trade up for guys like Ford, Singletary and Knox in one draft then trade for Diggs with 2 first round picks if he didn't have all that draft capital and also already put critical pieces elsewhere on defense already?  

 

You are taking the last 2 years of our 4 year rebuild and using it as proof he can turn around a bad roster into a playoff team in 18 months while severely lacking the draft capital to do it.  

 

Again, you are asking for a FIRST time GM to bat a thousand on every draft pick, every FA signing, and every coaching hire in his first 18 months.  Beane traded quality starters away in his first 2 seasons as GM in order to put the team in position to make the draft picks they did and the trades they did.  You are skipping all that and taking a first time GM with less than their own starting draft picks and expecting the same.  

 

Beane in his first 3 drafts had in his possession a total of 4 first round picks, Houston has one.  Beane used the 4 picks to add Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and Diggs.  Substantial additions to the team, including 3 pro bowlers, a first team all-pro and 2nd team all-pro this year.  Not to mention all the extra picks he had in the subsequent rounds he had to work with to draft and trade around the draft with.  

 

Bills had the foundations of a good defense the first year McD was here when they drafted White too.  That first year defense is substantially better than what Houston is starting with.  Our OL was in a lot better shape too than Houstons before we started adding the skill players.  

 

Again, you are skipping all that work and then some, including finding the ideal HC for this team just because they have Watson already entering his prime.  Drew Brees passed for 5000 yards several seasons in a row WITHOUT making the playoffs.  How many big statistical seasons has Stafford had without sniffing the playoffs?  How about Matt Ryan?  Watson isnt enough on his own, he had an MVP level season statistically, and his best as a pro, and won 4 games.  And now he is also likely to lose his favorite weapon in Fuller next year too before starting to rebuild an already bare cupboard.

 

All good bud, I enjoy the dialogue, just think you are grossly over estimating the potential of that teams timeline and at the same under estimating what Beane did before we could really take the next step. 

 

 

 

You are failing to grasp the nuance though. Beane did that in two offseasons with the offense to take one of the very worst offenses in the league to one of the very best. And yes the D was largely already in place. But that has taken the Bills from 6-10 to 13-3. I am not arguing the Texans can be 13-3 in two years. But if they make smart decisions there is no reason they can't be a 9 or 10 win team and in playoff contention. Basically I am giving them two years to make the step the Bills made in 1.

 

The Miami roster of 2019 was worse than this Texans roster and they won 10 games this year. They went from the 32nd defense in points to the 6th (1st with a week to go as we know). Completely rebuilt. In one offseason. With largely free agent pick ups. And I correctly  predicted that pre-season too. I was derided for saying I thought the Dolphins were top 10 type defense. 

 

It can be done. You have to make smart decisions but it is not as hard as people make it sound. It is pretty much impossible to rebuild them for 2021, I agree with that, because you neither have cap space nor picks. But in 2022 they have an abundance of both.

 

I think it is a great job for a General Manager. I thought it was the best GM job on the market... but clearly you have to get Watson on side. If they don't and they have to trade Deshaun then I think they are looking at a longer rebuild even with more draft capital. I'd rather have a top 5 Quarterback than draft picks any day of any week. 

 

[mannc]

12 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Again though Gunner, you are completely overlooking all the work Beane did BEFORE he could invest so heavily in the offense.  You think Beane can spend so much draft capital on offense if he didnt already have a strong defensive unit in place?  No not at all.  You think he can trade up for guys like Ford, Singletary and Knox in one draft then trade for Diggs with 2 first round picks if he didn't have all that draft capital and also already put critical pieces elsewhere on defense already?  

 

You are taking the last 2 years of our 4 year rebuild and using it as proof he can turn around a bad roster into a playoff team in 18 months while severely lacking the draft capital to do it.  

 

Again, you are asking for a FIRST time GM to bat a thousand on every draft pick, every FA signing, and every coaching hire in his first 18 months.  Beane traded quality starters away in his first 2 seasons as GM in order to put the team in position to make the draft picks they did and the trades they did.  You are skipping all that and taking a first time GM with less than their own starting draft picks and expecting the same.  

 

Beane in his first 3 drafts had in his possession a total of 4 first round picks, Houston has one.  Beane used the 4 picks to add Allen, Edmunds, Oliver, and Diggs.  Substantial additions to the team, including 3 pro bowlers, a first team all-pro and 2nd team all-pro this year.  Not to mention all the extra picks he had in the subsequent rounds he had to work with to draft and trade around the draft with.  

 

Bills had the foundations of a good defense the first year McD was here when they drafted White too.  That first year defense is substantially better than what Houston is starting with.  Our OL was in a lot better shape too than Houstons before we started adding the skill players.  

 

Again, you are skipping all that work and then some, including finding the ideal HC for this team just because they have Watson already entering his prime.  Drew Brees passed for 5000 yards several seasons in a row WITHOUT making the playoffs.  How many big statistical seasons has Stafford had without sniffing the playoffs?  How about Matt Ryan?  Watson isnt enough on his own, he had an MVP level season statistically, and his best as a pro, and won 4 games.  And now he is also likely to lose his favorite weapon in Fuller next year too before starting to rebuild an already bare cupboard.

 

All good bud, I enjoy the dialogue, just think you are grossly over estimating the potential of that teams timeline and at the same under estimating what Beane did before we could really take the next step. 

 

 

I agree with what you're saying here, but we did not trade two number 1s for Diggs.  This is the second time you've said this...

[Alphadawg7]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You are failing to grasp the nuance though. Beane did that in two offseasons with the offense to take one of the very worst offenses in the league to one of the very best. And yes the D was largely already in place. But that has taken the Bills from 6-10 to 13-3. I am not arguing the Texans can be 13-3 in two years. But if they make smart decisions there is no reason they can't be a 9 or 10 win team and in playoff contention. Basically I am giving them two years to make the step the Bills made in 1.

 

The Miami roster of 2019 was worse than this Texans roster and they won 10 games this year. They went from the 32nd defense in points to the 6th (1st with a week to go as we know). Completely rebuilt. In one offseason. With largely free agent pick ups. And I correctly  predicted that pre-season too. I was derided for saying I thought the Dolphins were top 10 type defense. 

 

It can be done. You have to make smart decisions but it is not as hard as people make it sound. It is pretty much impossible to rebuild them for 2021, I agree with that, because you neither have cap space nor picks. But in 2022 they have an abundance of both.

 

I think it is a great job for a General Manager. I thought it was the best GM job on the market... but clearly you have to get Watson on side. If they don't and they have to trade Deshaun then I think they are looking at a longer rebuild even with more draft capital. I'd rather have a top 5 Quarterback than draft picks any day of any week. 

 

 

I definitely disagree in the comparison of the Dolphins and Houston overall roster when not factoring in Watson who clearly is the best overall player by a mile on both teams.  

 

But lets go back to Bills and Houston.  You also keep forgetting about the OL.  Houstons is among the leagues worst.  Bills was not when they started the offensive focus.  

 

And you keep skipping over we traded a first and multiple draft picks for Diggs.  Houston has 1 first round pick over next 2 drafts and none this year.  So the first round pick they do have will be a rookie in the year you say they will be a playoff team.  In a division with a Titans team that should be good a while as they are young, and a Colts team that is pretty good roster and isnt going anywhere soon.  Their biggest question mark is whether or not Rivers will retire this year, but there are some potential intriguing options for them at QB including talk they could make a trade for someone like a Stafford or Ryan (again just unsubstantiated rumors now, but if that happens, Colts are even better than they are today).  

 

Also...first time GM who has not done one thing yet and still does not have a HC who could be good, bad, or mediocre.  Dolphins hit big on their staff so far and have top end defense, which was the top scoring defense in the NFL this year, which is WHY they won 10 games.    

8 minutes ago, mannc said:

I agree with what you're saying here, but we did not trade two number 1s for Diggs.  This is the second time you've said this...

 

My bad, hahaha, yeah I was thinking Watkins haha.  But still we traded a first and some additional picks.  Houston doesnt have that luxury is still the point, but thank you I will update that.

Edited January 8, 2021 by Alphadawg7

[Alphadawg7]

@GunnerBill For the record, I do respect and enjoy the dialogue with you, which is why I engage with you on it.  Thanks for the convo participation

[GunnerBill]

20 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Also...first time GM who has not done one thing yet and still does not have a HC who could be good, bad, or mediocre.  Dolphins hit big on their staff so far and have top end defense, which was the top scoring defense in the NFL this year, which is WHY they won 10 games.    

 

So I agree with this. There is absolutely no guarantee. The Texans have to hit on the GM and HC. Caseiro is highly rated but he might be a dud. The new Head Coach might stink. But if they hit and they make a reasonable fist of the job this can be a 9 or 10 win team in 2022. 

 

You say you disagree on the Dolphins.... the Dolphins started an entire new offensive line in 2020. Three rookies and two free agents. They rebuilt their defense in free agency. The Dolphins 2019 team sucked. The guys who started on that team and are still starting..... the two receivers and their tight end, one defensive lineman, two of their 4 linebackers, 1 corner and 1 safety. That is it. 22 starters on a football team. 14 of the Dolphins starters are new. 5 through the draft and 9 in free agency.

15 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

@GunnerBill For the record, I do respect and enjoy the dialogue with you, which is why I engage with you on it.  Thanks for the convo participation

 

Likewise Alpha. Always enjoy it. You are always fun to debate.

Edited January 8, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Alphadawg7]

18 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Likewise Alpha. Always enjoy it. You are always fun to debate.

 

Same with you, always a fun time.  There are things we are often fully in alignment on, and then others where we have differing opinions.  But always find the back and forth fun on the differing opinions because I know no matter what I will always get back a well thought out and respectful opinion.  

 

#GOBILLS

 

20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So I agree with this. There is absolutely no guarantee. The Texans have to hit on the GM and HC. Caseiro is highly rated but he might be a dud. The new Head Coach might stink. But if they hit and they make a reasonable fist of the job this can be a 9 or 10 win team in 2022. 

 

You say you disagree on the Dolphins.... the Dolphins started an entire new offensive line in 2020. Three rookies and two free agents. They rebuilt their defense in free agency. The Dolphins 2019 team sucked. The guys who started on that team and are still starting..... the two receivers and their tight end, one defensive lineman, two of their 4 linebackers, 1 corner and 1 safety. That is it. 22 starters on a football team. 14 of the Dolphins starters are new. 5 through the draft and 9 in free agency.

 

I still dont see the Dolphins as a fair comparison.  They seem to have hit on both the GM and HC, how many teams do that?  Plus Miami had a lot more cap space and draft capital and their best players on defense and offense were already there in Xavier Howard, Jerome Baker, DeVante Parker and Gesicki.   

 

I mean Howard had 10 ints and Baker led the team in tackles and 2nd in sacks, all been there 3 years or more and drafted by the team.  

 

All good though, we will see how it plays out.  Personally, I think there is more and more smoke building around a potential Watson trade and this all may be a mute point if that happens.  

[GunnerBill]

33 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

I still dont see the Dolphins as a fair comparison.  They seem to have hit on both the GM and HC, how many teams do that?  

 

And I am not saying Houston will, clearly they need to. They have to get these two decisions right and they have to convince Deshaun they have got them right. The alternative is a very long road in my opinion.

[Bill from NYC]

I see that you listed the Jags as one of the choices. Initially, I couldn't understand why you listed them. IMO, and I could easily be wrong, Houston would have to trade Watson, and even cough up several very high draft picks (including their first round pick) to get the rights to Trevor Lawrence.

 

I have always been a fan of Watson and wanted the Bills to draft him. That said, count me as one who thinks that Lawrence is an even better prospect, if not MUCH better. If I was the GM of Houston and could give up Watson, a 1st and a 2nd for the rights to draft Lawrence, I would do it in a second. That is how great I think that he will be. 

 

The only quarterbacks that I would NOT trade for the rights to Lawrence are Mahomes, and of course Josh Allen. No way! We are just that lucky to have Josh on our team.

 

Again, JMO.

[1ManRaid]

On 1/7/2021 at 1:02 PM, appoo said:

Watson, Mahomes and Rodgers are the only QBs I'd even CONSIDER swapping Allen for, for the next 2-3 years (ignoring contract). That dude deserves a better football team around him

 

I wouldn't even consider Rodgers.  You don't trade a 24 year old MVP level QB with years left on a rookie contract for a 37 year old MVP level QB unless it is a purely hypothetical one-and-done scenario.

12 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

I see that you listed the Jags as one of the choices. Initially, I couldn't understand why you listed them. IMO, and I could easily be wrong, Houston would have to trade Watson, and even cough up several very high draft picks (including their first round pick) to get the rights to Trevor Lawrence.

 

I have always been a fan of Watson and wanted the Bills to draft him. That said, count me as one who thinks that Lawrence is an even better prospect, if not MUCH better. If I was the GM of Houston and could give up Watson, a 1st and a 2nd for the rights to draft Lawrence, I would do it in a second. That is how great I think that he will be. 

 

The only quarterbacks that I would NOT trade for the rights to Lawrence are Mahomes, and of course Josh Allen. No way! We are just that lucky to have Josh on our team.

 

Again, JMO.

 

What high draft picks?  Miami says hello.

[Bill from NYC]

17 minutes ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

What high draft picks?  Miami says hello.

Beacuse Lawrence (imo) is the best QB prospect coming out of college since John Elway. I never insisted that I am correct with this assertion. It is merely the opinion of one football fan.

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Beacuse Lawrence (imo) is the best QB prospect coming out of college since John Elway. I never insisted that I am correct with this assertion. It is merely the opinion of one football fan.

 

Houston traded their 1st and 2nd draft picks this year (along with their 1st last year) to Miami for Laremy Tunsil. 

 

Hence, Miami says hello.

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Beacuse Lawrence (imo) is the best QB prospect coming out of college since John Elway. I never insisted that I am correct with this assertion. It is merely the opinion of one football fan.

Lol at skipping Andrew Luck.  Not many people have your insight and still regard him as having proven his hype.  

[White Linen]

I thought Wilbon's take today on ESPN was disgusting. 

[Doc]

16 minutes ago, White Linen said:

I thought Wilbon's take today on ESPN was disgusting. 

 

What did he say?

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, 1ManRaid said:

 

Houston traded their 1st and 2nd draft picks this year (along with their 1st last year) to Miami for Laremy Tunsil. 

 

Hence, Miami says hello.

Good point. In that case Houston lacks the resources to get Lawrence. 

 

Tell me, if the Bills didn't have a great QB, how much would you give up for Lawrence?

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Bill from NYC

[Bill from NYC]

9 hours ago, 4merper4mer said:

Lol at skipping Andrew Luck.  Not many people have your insight and still regard him as having proven his hype.  

Lets talk about what Lawrence does NOT do well, or talent in any phase of the QB position that he lacks. He has size, speed, accuracy, touch, and a cannon. He seems to be smart in interviews.

 

I know that great college talent doesn't always succeed in the NFL. Everybody knows this. He could turn into a Ruben Foster, go nuts, and throw it all away. And btw I know nothing of his character. What I do know is that he has everything it takes to become a great QB, and see no reason to pretend otherwise.

 

Again, jmo.

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

I see that you listed the Jags as one of the choices. Initially, I couldn't understand why you listed them. IMO, and I could easily be wrong, Houston would have to trade Watson, and even cough up several very high draft picks (including their first round pick) to get the rights to Trevor Lawrence.

 

I have always been a fan of Watson and wanted the Bills to draft him. That said, count me as one who thinks that Lawrence is an even better prospect, if not MUCH better. If I was the GM of Houston and could give up Watson, a 1st and a 2nd for the rights to draft Lawrence, I would do it in a second. That is how great I think that he will be. 

 

The only quarterbacks that I would NOT trade for the rights to Lawrence are Mahomes, and of course Josh Allen. No way! We are just that lucky to have Josh on our team.

 

Again, JMO.

 

Yea I included Jacksonville as the 7th and final of my "teams that wouldn't be interested in Watson" and they are the one of those 7 who I think would at least have the conversation before deciding against it. I agree Lawrence as a prospect is higher rated than Watson was so I think you take the plunge and the 5 years of cost control but you probably do have the conversation internally about prospect v proven commodity before you finalise that decision.

[JMF2006]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Good point. In that case Houston lacks the resources to get Lawrence. 

 

Tell me, if the Bills didn't have a great QB, how much would you give up for Lawrence?

 

 

I wouldn't bother trying to get to #1

 

I would get up high enough to get Zach Wilson and put him behind a veteran mentor for a year

 

 

I voted 50% only because he is all pissed off about being left out of the GM decision.

 

Public melt downs usually don't help your standing with the team and with a new regime they either have to try and repair the fracture(which might be hard) or move on which would be a lot easier.

Edited January 9, 2021 by JMF2006
spacing

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Lets talk about what Lawrence does NOT do well, or talent in any phase of the QB position that he lacks. He has size, speed, accuracy, touch, and a cannon. He seems to be smart in interviews.

 

I know that great college talent doesn't always succeed in the NFL. Everybody knows this. He could turn into a Ruben Foster, go nuts, and throw it all away. And btw I know nothing of his character. What I do know is that he has everything it takes to become a great QB, and see no reason to pretend otherwise.

 

Again, jmo.

I agree and think he will probably succeed.  To what extent depends on a lot of things both within and outside his control.  Is it possible he could become Ryan Leaf?  I suppose, but he is more likely to be P. Manning IMO.

 

I was just saying that it was nice to see Luck not being the comparison for a can’t miss, since well"...........he missed.

[Big Turk]

If the Dolphins were smart they would try and trade the picks they got from Houston back to them for Watson. It would be an outright coup by them and literally not really cost them anything since they would still have their own picks.

 

Houston would get a high enough pick to take a QB and get him on a rookie deal for 4 years and be able to get another good player early in round 2 to help him develop.

 

Makes too much sense for both teams in this scenario. Maybe the Dolphins would have to throw in something extra but Watson would be well worth it. There is almost no chance Tua turns into that level of a player. Watson is elite and the same age as Mahomes.

Edited January 9, 2021 by Big Turk

[Bill from NYC]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:01 AM, Big Turk said:

If the Dolphins were smart they would try and trade the picks they got from Houston back to them for Watson. It would be an outright coup by them and literally not really cost them anything since they would still have their own picks.

 

Houston would get a high enough pick to take a QB and get him on a rookie deal for 4 years and be able to get another good player early in round 2 to help him develop.

 

Makes too much sense for both teams in this scenario. Maybe the Dolphins would have to throw in something extra but Watson would be well worth it. There is almost no chance Tua turns into that level of a player. Watson is elite and the same age as Mahomes.

Interesting post wrt Miami.

[Doc]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:01 AM, Big Turk said:

If the Dolphins were smart they would try and trade the picks they got from Houston back to them for Watson. It would be an outright coup by them and literally not really cost them anything since they would still have their own picks.

 

Houston would get a high enough pick to take a QB and get him on a rookie deal for 4 years and be able to get another good player early in round 2 to help him develop.

 

Makes too much sense for both teams in this scenario. Maybe the Dolphins would have to throw in something extra but Watson would be well worth it. There is almost no chance Tua turns into that level of a player. Watson is elite and the same age as Mahomes.

 

I was thinking about that, but a) the top-2 QB prospects will likely be gone by #3 (either the Jets take a QB at 2 or trade down with someone who will), b) they won't want to trade him within the conference (which is why the Bills didn't get Hopkins), and c) the Dols won't want to admit they screwed-up with Tua this quickly.

[dje85]

Unless offered a kings ransom I doubt the Texans would trade him. Too much cap hit. If they were to trade him it'd be likely be to a team in the NFC imo. The 49ers, Eagles, Panthers or Saints (If Brees retires). All come to mind as potential destinations if Watson were to hold out / demand a trade. Just dubt they'd trade him in division and have him potentially playing them and making the look foolish year after year.

[dave mcbride]

On 1/9/2021 at 8:01 AM, Big Turk said:

If the Dolphins were smart they would try and trade the picks they got from Houston back to them for Watson. It would be an outright coup by them and literally not really cost them anything since they would still have their own picks.

 

Houston would get a high enough pick to take a QB and get him on a rookie deal for 4 years and be able to get another good player early in round 2 to help him develop.

 

Makes too much sense for both teams in this scenario. Maybe the Dolphins would have to throw in something extra but Watson would be well worth it. There is almost no chance Tua turns into that level of a player. Watson is elite and the same age as Mahomes.

That would be a huge coup for Miami, and it's a plausible scenario. Tua doesn't appear to have it. Watson absolutely does.

[BillsMafi$]

 

5 minutes ago, BillsMafi$ said:

Wow!!!!  

 
per Chris mortenson. Sounds like a trade has at least been talked about 

 

 

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by BillsMafi$

[Rubes]

What, in your head?

 

EDIT: Never mind, now that threads are merged and there is some context, it makes more sense.

 

Edited January 10, 2021 by Rubes