Is Houston showing that even a Franchise QB isn't a guarantee against being bad?

[Big Turk]

Well...I guess the Lions do every year too with Stafford but Watson's Texans routinely make the playoffs...they hosted us last year after winning the division...

 

Watson has MVP caliber numbers this year...

 

Almost 4500 yards passing, completing 70.1% of his passes with 30 TDs to 6 INTs and a 112.6 rating. It is almost impossible for a team to be this bad with a QB performing at this level.

 

And now they currently would be drafting 3rd overall?

 

Just seems like a huge dropoff considering Watson has played very well this year and how much QBs can do to influence the outcome of games.

 

Does this fly in the face of people who say Franchise QBs will guarantee you 7 or 8 wins? Certainly seems to.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Big Turk

[Big Blitz]

They have showed that having a terrible front office and coaching will definitely hold you back.  

 

And definitely don't trade elite WR1s for RBs.  

 

Not smart. 

[SCBills]

Houston is in quite a tough spot..  

 

Not a good roster, outside QB.  No cap space to work with.  Not much draft capital either.  

 

I think they could definitely be looking like Lions-South.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Well...I guess the Lions do every year too with Stafford but Watson's Texans routinely make the playoffs...they hosted us last year after winning the division...

 

And now they currently would be drafting 3rd overall?

 

Just seems like a huge dropoff considering Watson has played very well this year and how much QBs can do to influence the outcome of games.

 

Does this fly in the face of people who say Franchise QBs will guarantee you 7 or 8 wins? Certainly seems to.

 

Absolutely!  Nothing is proof against having a craptastic player personnel management strategy

[Matt_In_NH]

On any given year with poor leadership and cap managment, sure.  I think Houston will be a force down the road though.  Watson is great and they will be a team to deal with moving forward.   The QB is one of three parts you need, the others are coaching and cap management.  The Saints have struggled with cap management.  Tee Falcons have struggled with coaching and cap management.

 

In general if you get a top 5 type QB you should be able to consistently compete.  I still think we need the element of time to put Allen in that category.

 

The other thing, a couple examples of teams that had success only to fall off once the OC left, Philly and Atlanta....the new OC (if Daboll leaves) will be really important.    

[mannc]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Well...I guess the Lions do every year too with Stafford but Watson's Texans routinely make the playoffs...they hosted us last year after winning the division...

 

And now they currently would be drafting 3rd overall?

 

Just seems like a huge dropoff considering Watson has played very well this year and how much QBs can do to influence the outcome of games.

 

Does this fly in the face of people who say Franchise QBs will guarantee you 7 or 8 wins? Certainly seems to.

The Texans put an idiot in charge of their football operations.  Even a franchise QB can’t overcome that.  The good news is that with Deshaun Watson under contract long term, the rebuild should not be too long or hard, despite the fact that the idiot gave away most of your immediate draft capital.  (Watson is a far better QB than Matt Stafford, BTW...)

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Seems appropriate to put this here.

 

JJ Watt presser.  He lays it out:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924323-video-jj-watt-discusses-texans-struggles-in-passionate-postgame-presser

[Mr. WEO]

you forgot Matt Ryan. And Dalton.  And Eli Manning.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Seems appropriate to put this here.

 

JJ Watt presser.  He lays it out:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924323-video-jj-watt-discusses-texans-struggles-in-passionate-postgame-presser

 

That dude is one of my favorite non Bills of all time...he is everything that is right with sports. After that huge hurricane hit, he raised more money for the area than anyone else and was involved in the entire process of helping to rebuild things and setting all of the processes up, etc...big respect to JJ Watt.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Big Turk

[HalftimeAdjustment]

Yes. It is a team game and you cannot win consistently with a great QB while most of other 21 starters are bad or lazy. Also, if your coach is not good that is a huge disadvantage. However... it is much easier for them to turn it around and improve with the QB spot settled.

[Big Turk]

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

you forgot Matt Ryan. And Dalton.  And Eli Manning.

 

Dalton and Manning were never about that life.

[Not at the table Karlos]

13 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Well...I guess the Lions do every year too with Stafford but Watson's Texans routinely make the playoffs...they hosted us last year after winning the division...

 

Watson has MVP caliber numbers this year...

 

Almost 4500 yards passing, completing 70.1% of his passes with 30 TDs to 6 INTs and a 112.6 rating. It is almost impossible for a team to be this bad with a QB performing at this level.

 

And now they currently would be drafting 3rd overall?

 

Just seems like a huge dropoff considering Watson has played very well this year and how much QBs can do to influence the outcome of games.

 

Does this fly in the face of people who say Franchise QBs will guarantee you 7 or 8 wins? Certainly seems to.

Sucks that the dolphins have their pick. 

[Mr. WEO]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Dalton and Manning were never about that life.

 

Which life?

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Sucks that the dolphins have their pick. 

 

Yeah...3rd overall right now. Dolphins could turn that into a Kings Ransom.

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Which life?

 

Elite QB life.

[Bob in STL]

Rumor I heard from someone in Buffalo is that the Texans are very interested in Daboll (HC) and Joe Schoen (GM).  I hope this is false.  

[Not at the table Karlos]

Just now, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah...3rd overall right now. Dolphins could turn that into a Kings Ransom.

Either that or Ja’marr Chase😫

[JoPoy88]

A combo of Bad ownership, front office and coaching can certainly offset elite QB play, yes. Houston has had all 3 of those for several seasons now.

[WhoTom]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Seems appropriate to put this here.

 

JJ Watt presser.  He lays it out:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924323-video-jj-watt-discusses-texans-struggles-in-passionate-postgame-presser

 

Every team should watch that video at the start of training camp. Every year.

 

 

[GunnerBill]

Watson has played at a top 5 level. He has been remarkable really. Even when in recent weeks down starters on the oline (which is awful to start with) and with practice squad scrubs to throw to. 

 

He has totally disproven the "ah he is just an average QB propped up by DeAndre Hopkins" narrative that always rang hollow to me. 

 

It is Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes and then Watson and Wilson. They are undsiputably the best 5 QBs in football at this point. 

 

The Texans are a mess elsewhere though. They have about 5 good players. That said while 2021 is gonna be another tough year the rebuild could be pretty quick after that because they are tied in long term to basically nobody other than Watson. So a smart GM and HC combo could be back in contention by 2022. It is a job I would love - especially the GM one - because you start with a blank sheet of paper but the most important part of the puzzle in place. Just build even an average roster around him and you are a playoff team right away.

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, Big Turk said:

 

Yeah...3rd overall right now. Dolphins could turn that into a Kings Ransom.

 

Elite QB life.

 

In 2014 Manning had 4410 yards, 30 TDs and 14 int.

In 2015 Manning had 4432 yards, 35 TDs and 14 int. 

Both seasons the Giants went 6-10.

 

This is Watson only season over 4400 yards and over 26 TDs.  Not Elite QB life.

[Victory Formation]

11 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

 

That dude is one of my favorite non Bills of all time...he is everything that is right with sports. After that huge hurricane hit, he raised more money for the area than anyone else and was involved in the entire process of helping to rebuild things and setting all of the processes up, etc...big respect to JJ Watt.

I think Watt will be cut next year.. Would love it if he took a prove it deal with the Bills.

[aristocrat]

Bill Obrien should be put in jail for what he did to that team.   Now miami is gonna have a top 5 picks and will give them a great weapon for tua

[SCBills]

7 minutes ago, Not at the table Karlos said:

Sucks that the dolphins have their pick. 

 

Meh... Dolphins aren't taking a QB - If they were, I'd be more bothered by this (even though the argument can be made they should). 

 

Anywhere in the Top 10, they can get a stud offensive player... Devonta Smith, Ja'Marr Chase, Kyle Pitts, Penei Sewell etc.. 

[Mr. WEO]

1 minute ago, aristocrat said:

Bill Obrien should be put in jail for what he did to that team.   Now miami is gonna have a top 5 picks and will give them a great weapon for tua

 

Best weapon for Tua is Fitz

[Rc2catch]

If the Texans could effectively run the ball their team would be so much better. Watson is fantastic. The defense is so bad though they just can’t get any stops and some ball control and time of possession would do them wonders. 

[RobbRiddick]

I've come to respect Watson even more this year. The way he plays his guts out every week even with a bad team around him just speaks to the kind of competitor he is.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Rc2catch said:

If the Texans could effectively run the ball their team would be so much better. Watson is fantastic. The defense is so bad though they just can’t get any stops and some ball control and time of possession would do them wonders. 

 

Their secondary is the worst in the NFL. Their oline is bottom 5. Their D line has majorly missed DJ Reader and can't stop the run. The only thing they had potentially going for them was a reasonable receiving corps and that is now in bits too. 

 

[BuffaninSarasota]

26 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

They have showed that having a terrible front office and coaching will definitely hold you back.  

 

And definitely don't trade elite WR1s for RBs.  

 

Not smart. 

 

Houston has shown BOB out the door for the reasons Big Blitz listed .....

[Rc2catch]

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Their secondary is the worst in the NFL. Their oline is bottom 5. Their D line has majorly missed DJ Reader and can't stop the run. The only thing they had potentially going for them was a reasonable receiving corps and that is now in bits too. 

 

Yeah I thought to start the year they would be impressive on offense. Duke Johnson is not as good as I thought for sure. David Johnson has exceeded my expectations. But overall they’re in pretty bad shape for next season. I agree in two years though it’s a really nice blank slate to start with. 

[CincyBillsFan]

Other conclusions would be:

 

*  This is a one year blip and the Texans will be back at the top next season.

 

*  A franchise QB can elevate the play of a bad team so that they lose by one score and not by three scores.

 

*  QB's like Stafford and Watson this year pad their stats with a lot of garbage time yards/TD's and playing against prevent defenses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aristocrat]

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Best weapon for Tua is Fitz

 

they could be like brees and hill.  now they get their michael thomas with either the lsu kid or bama kid.  

[Chicken Boo]

I can't see why Deshaun re-upped there.

 

I guess it's hard to leave a city once you've spent time there and become a pillar of the community.

[Jerome007]

Amazing piece by Watt

 

And of course some teams have great QBs and suck, while some SB winners have had "game manager" QBs.

 

But the QB position remains THE most important position.

 

Texans with Watson and JJ Watt can still manage to suck is quite impressive! 

 

[billspro]

48 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

They have showed that having a terrible front office and coaching will definitely hold you back.  

 

And definitely don't trade elite WR1s for RBs.  

 

Not smart. 

I really wish the Dolphins didn’t have their 1st round pick. 

30 minutes ago, SCBills said:

 

Meh... Dolphins aren't taking a QB - If they were, I'd be more bothered by this (even though the argument can be made they should). 

 

Anywhere in the Top 10, they can get a stud offensive player... Devonta Smith, Ja'Marr Chase, Kyle Pitts, Penei Sewell etc.. 

 

They might if Tua keeps getting benched. There are going to be some elite players at the top of the draft. There are some amazing OTs and WRs. Then having a high pick this year is not a good thing. 

[Charles Romes]

Watson’s pocket sensing skills are not elite and that’s why they had to go into cap hell to sign a franchise left tackle. It also doesn’t help that they have been overpaying for what Watt once was years ago.  

[billspro]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Watson has played at a top 5 level. He has been remarkable really. Even when in recent weeks down starters on the oline (which is awful to start with) and with practice squad scrubs to throw to. 

 

He has totally disproven the "ah he is just an average QB propped up by DeAndre Hopkins" narrative that always rang hollow to me. 

 

It is Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes and then Watson and Wilson. They are undsiputably the best 5 QBs in football at this point. 

 

The Texans are a mess elsewhere though. They have about 5 good players. That said while 2021 is gonna be another tough year the rebuild could be pretty quick after that because they are tied in long term to basically nobody other than Watson. So a smart GM and HC combo could be back in contention by 2022. It is a job I would love - especially the GM one - because you start with a blank sheet of paper but the most important part of the puzzle in place. Just build even an average roster around him and you are a playoff team right away.

Yeah whoever takes that job has a pretty easy path to executive of the year. Jacksonville could be right there contending with them though. 

[Alphadawg7]

53 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

Well...I guess the Lions do every year too with Stafford but Watson's Texans routinely make the playoffs...they hosted us last year after winning the division...

 

Watson has MVP caliber numbers this year...

 

Almost 4500 yards passing, completing 70.1% of his passes with 30 TDs to 6 INTs and a 112.6 rating. It is almost impossible for a team to be this bad with a QB performing at this level.

 

And now they currently would be drafting 3rd overall?

 

Just seems like a huge dropoff considering Watson has played very well this year and how much QBs can do to influence the outcome of games.

 

Does this fly in the face of people who say Franchise QBs will guarantee you 7 or 8 wins? Certainly seems to.

 

Houston?  Well yeah, thats certainly an example...But how about San Diego, Atlanta, New Orleans, Green Bay, etc etc.  There were many years that the Saints couldn't even make the playoffs while Brees was throwing for 5000 yards.  Green Bay has had arguably the most talented QB of his generation and had many meh or disappointing seasons.  San Deigo had a likely future HOF QB too piling up stats and missing the playoffs.  Of course, you mentioned the Lions too with Stafford.  Atlanta has struggled to even make the playoffs for half of Ryans career despite gaudy stats.

 

Its been proven many times throughout NFL history, that high quality to elite QB isn't enough and rarely carries a team to the top without having at least a solid to good team around them.  In fact, I would argue that there are more cases of average or worse QB's winning Super Bowls with good to great teams around them than there are elite QB's winning SB's with average or worse rosters around them. 

[Big Turk]

40 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

In 2014 Manning had 4410 yards, 30 TDs and 14 int.

In 2015 Manning had 4432 yards, 35 TDs and 14 int. 

Both seasons the Giants went 6-10.

 

This is Watson only season over 4400 yards and over 26 TDs.  Not Elite QB life.

 

So after 10 years Eli was ready to take that jump huh?

 

 Eli was a good QB who could have great games here and there but he wasn't consistently great.

Edited December 28, 2020 by Big Turk

[Alphadawg7]

56 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Seems appropriate to put this here.

 

JJ Watt presser.  He lays it out:

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2924323-video-jj-watt-discusses-texans-struggles-in-passionate-postgame-presser

 

That was one of the best interviews I have ever seen a professional athlete give.  I wish I could give it a 1000 awesome emoticons.  

[SCBills]

13 minutes ago, billspro said:

I really wish the Dolphins didn’t have their 1st round pick. 

 

They might if Tua keeps getting benched. There are going to be some elite players at the top of the draft. There are some amazing OTs and WRs. Then having a high pick this year is not a good thing. 

 

Agree - I'm just saying there isn't a massive difference in playmaker, as long as you're in the Top 10.  If they aren't going QB, they were always going to get a stud WR, TE or OT.  My comment is more about people being annoyed at Houston's pick being Top 5, as opposed to 6, 7 or 8.  

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by SCBills