The Bills Free-Agent DEFENSIVE signings have not produced.

[LB48]

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

[Big Turk]

AJ Klein didn't do much until last week's game but he might have been as responsible for the end result as Allen was.

 

So that was one player that produced...at least in one game.

[PUNT750]

3 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

AJ Klein didn't do much until last week's game but he might have been as responsible for the end result as Allen was.

 

So that was one player that produced...at least in one game.

Yes - Klein is playing well lately.  Maybe that says something about the rest of the defense.

[Ralonzo]

Butler in particular looked even more contact-averse than Edmunds this week. That's pretty weak.

1 minute ago, PUNT750 said:

Yes - Klein is playing well lately.  Maybe that says something about the rest of the defense.

 

Klein is playing defense like he's a defensive player - i.e. someone who likes to hit. Many of the Bills defense seem like they don't.

[Bangarang]

The high priced free agents haven’t produced but it’s not a criticism of the GM or HC? Why the hell not? These guys aren’t perfect. What’s the problem with calling a spade a spade?

[LB48]

2 minutes ago, Ralonzo said:

Butler in particular looked even more contact-averse than Edmunds this week. That's pretty weak.

 

Klein is playing defense like he's a defensive player - i.e. someone who likes to hit. Many of the Bills defense seem like they don't.

I agree 100%.  They just aren't tough or rough enough.

[PUNT750]

1 minute ago, Bangarang said:

The high priced free agents haven’t produced but it’s not a criticism of the GM or HC? Why the hell not? These guys aren’t perfect. What’s the problem with calling a spade a spade?

If I did that I'd get kicked off the board

 

[Ralonzo]

7 minutes ago, LB48 said:

I agree 100%.  They just aren't tough or rough enough.

 

Other defenses are tough and ruthless. The Bills are rough and toothless.

[Big Turk]

12 minutes ago, PUNT750 said:

Yes - Klein is playing well lately.  Maybe that says something about the rest of the defense.

Or maybe they figured out how to use him properly and put him in positions to succeed and stop asking him to do things he isn't good at.

Just now, Ralonzo said:

 

Other defenses are tough and ruthless. The Bills are rough and toothless.

 

Are they? Seems a little off base considering the NFL is going to shatter the record for most points scored in a season and passing yards in a season.

[BillsVet]

23 minutes ago, LB48 said:

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

 

LB -

 

This isn't a criticism of your post.  But sometimes the threads you start are so obvious.

 

It's about the talent to ask intuitive questions.  Less is more. 

[Thurman#1]

I know. Other defenses have fared so well against Kyler and the Cards.

 

IMO Addison and Butler have been good. Some of the others not so much. And Norman when on the field, has also had some nice moments.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Ralonzo]

10 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

Are they? Seems a little off base considering the NFL is going to shatter the record for most points scored in a season and passing yards in a season.

 

They've been getting better, making some plays. But I needed an excuse to link that video clip.

[artmalibu]

The question is, how much of a difference would Star have made?

 

[Rc2catch]

I think the better question would be what did you expect to see production wise from most of our signings? Klein was signed as a reserve with starter experience and rotational value. Norman was meant to be depth with hopes of past years norman showing up to take cb2. 
Addison does his job quite well to my untrained eye. 
None of these guys were “stars” I’m not sure what fans expected. The price tags were hefty as almost all free agent signings are. Most of these guys were not expected to play this many snaps already. 

[PUNT750]

18 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I think the better question would be what did you expect to see production wise from most of our signings? Klein was signed as a reserve with starter experience and rotational value. Norman was meant to be depth with hopes of past years norman showing up to take cb2. 
Addison does his job quite well to my untrained eye. 
None of these guys were “stars” I’m not sure what fans expected. The price tags were hefty as almost all free agent signings are. Most of these guys were not expected to play this many snaps already. 

WHO was supposed to take most of the snaps?  Harrison Phillips was hurt and in reality isn't an NFL starter.  Free Agent Zimmer playing in the middle of the line?  Let's face it - Butler and Jefferson have killed this defense.

[Rc2catch]

7 minutes ago, PUNT750 said:

WHO was supposed to take most of the snaps?  Harrison Phillips was hurt and in reality isn't an NFL starter.  Free Agent Zimmer playing in the middle of the line?  Let's face it - Butler and Jefferson have killed this defense.

Star has barely ever missed time his whole career. There’s 400+ snaps. 

[wvbillsfan]

I know it doesn’t feel like it but we are getting there defensively. Before that last pass we held the cards under 30 with a banged up covid affected secondary. 
 

We are going to get healthy. And our schedule has been unreal. How many top 10 offenses have we faced. Honest question. I’m not looking it up. 
 

We’re going to be just fine defensively 

[Nelius]

Jefferson was good last week. Klein has been stepping up as we all know. Addison seems to be contributing to an extent but yes, the lack of sacks is disappointing. Norman is disappointing. Overall I'd give it an incomplete, trending toward a C+/B-.

 

That kind of goes for the rest of the defense too. C-B range. I agree it's not an extremely talented unit right now. Would have loved to have seen Murphy replaced, he doesn't exist out there.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Nelius

[Greatdane21]

Management has failed to provide quality backups at LB and DL 

[GunnerBill]

I agree. While McDermott and Frazier are getting questions an eye or two should be cast in Brandon Beane's direction concerning the defense. A lot of guys on that unit under-performing their contracts.

Edited November 16, 2020 by GunnerBill

[streetkings01]

Addison has 5 sacks on the season......he’s doing his job.

[Not at the table Karlos]

7 hours ago, LB48 said:

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

Hard to be explosive when you’re anchoring taking on double teams. 

[Niagara Dude]

8 hours ago, LB48 said:

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

The defense needs to be retooled,  Beane has made too many poor signings.  These guys are scrubs,  Murphy has to be the most overpaid starting DE in the NFL.  Should have been cut and we would have saved 10 million or least 8 of cap money. While Addison and Jefferson have made a few plays,  i still cannot remember one big play that Butler has made.

 

I hope Pegulas tell Beane,  no more former Panther players.  I have never seen a GM coming from another team hoard so many player from the team he came from,  it needs to stop.

[Kwai San]

8 hours ago, LB48 said:

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

 

Josh killed the Bills yesterday.....

[y2zipper]

Between injuries, change and covid, there's just too many guys getting too many snaps they shouldn't be getting. The last couple of years they've had pretty good luck with health and acquisitions, but that doesn't always happen.

 

Functionally, they just don't have the bodies at defensive tackle. star and Jordan Phillips where the two players at the front of the rotation last year with Oliver, and neither of those two guys are here. Combine that with Phillips playing below expectation and not a lot of depth, and there's issues there, especially at one tech. It's hard to fault them when you expect star to be here and you expect Phillips to play better. This is the type of issue that takes an off season to fix.

 

A defensive end I think they're okay. Hughes is getting a little older, but Addison has been good. Murphy clearly has to go and we will see what we get out of AJ who's a rookie, who by the way got injured yesterday.

 

At linebacker the top two guys have been hurt pretty much all year. AJ Klein has played better with time.

 

In the defensive backfield, they've been pretty much decimated at corner. White has been banged up, Wallace has missed a bunch of games, Norman has been injured, and yesterday they had to put a practice squad player on the field because even Dane Jackson got hurt.

 

So there's a lot going on. It needs to get healthier, which hopefully the buy helps with. But there are also some positions where they need to retool the talent a little bit. This is largely why they didn't make a big trade and go all in this year.

 

 

[LB48]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I agree. While McDermott and Frazier are getting questions an eye or two should be cast in Brandon Beane's direction concerning the defense. A lot of guys on that unit under-performing their contracts.

Way under-performing. 

[MJS]

Most fans and pundits thought the signings were good. And our defense is playing better lately. Maybe give them some more time.

[thenorthremembers]

Addison,  Klein and Jefferson have been average.  Butler has been bad.  Norman has hardly played, been turned into a meme and singlehandly removed 10% of our roster from a big game.  Not great Bob.

[PUNT750]

2 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Addison,  Klein and Jefferson have been average.  Butler has been bad.  Norman has hardly played, been turned into a meme and singlehandly removed 10% of our roster from a big game.  Not great Bob.

Klein has become the best of the bunch and that's scary

[LABILLBACKER]

23 hours ago, Greatdane21 said:

Management has failed to provide quality backups at LB and DL 

I'm sure this will aggressively be addressed in the offseason. They weren't expecting Star to opt out. And from there everything from injuries to underperformers trickled down. 

[streetkings01]

Outside of a handful of teams defense has been historically bad around the NFL. Best we can hope for going forward is bend but don’t break with the offense scoring enough points for us to consistently win games 31-23.

[Greg S]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2020 at 4:26 AM, GunnerBill said:

I agree. While McDermott and Frazier are getting questions an eye or two should be cast in Brandon Beane's direction concerning the defense. A lot of guys on that unit under-performing their contracts.

 

Agree. Both Beane and McDermott have done a good job so far. They have turned the Bills from a bottom feeder into a good team. Both deserve and will get the chance to continue building the Bills into a legit SB contender. But Beane does deserve some criticism here for the defense declining. If he can have a good offseason (draft, FA) with improving the defense then this team can be a legit SB contender as early as next season. The offense is pretty good (although we could use a better RB) and JA continues to show that he is one of the best young QB's in the game.

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Greg S said:

 

Agree. Both Beane and McDermott have done a good job so far. They have turned the Bills from a bottom feeder into a good team. Both deserve and will get the chance to continue building the Bills into a legit SB contender. But Beane does deserve some criticism here for the defense declining. If he can have a good offseason (draft, FA) with improving the defense then this team can be a legit SB contender as early as next season. The offense is pretty good (although we could use a better RB) and JA continues to show that he is one of the best young QB's in the game.

 

On offense I don't want them drafting more running backs before day 3. If they wanna take 5th, 6th and 7th round fliers then fine. They need to draft offensive line. At least one interior guy and possibly a right tackle depending on Williams (who I am not sure they can afford to keep). But while they don't "need" to draft a receiver it would be wise to do so. If you are going to run 4 wide as much as we do you need waves of receiver talent. They have an excellent top 3, a serviceable 4 who should still get better and a serviceable 5 who has a specific role in the offense. They also need a tight end. 

 

On defense they need Dline badly. Honestly Ed might be the only one I'd keep out of their interior guys and they need more help on the edge too. Linebacker I think Edmunds has been better the last 2 weeks but if we lose Milano that is a major need. They need depth at corner and safety too. 

 

Edited November 17, 2020 by GunnerBill

[billsfan89]

On 11/15/2020 at 7:27 PM, LB48 said:

We spent a lot of money for Defensive Free Agents.  Were they over-rated?  Maybe journeymen that looked pretty good in another defensive scheme?  Maybe they needed great linebackers to help their game?

 

I don't know the answer. 

 

This is NOT a criticism of our GM or HC. 

 

Josh Norman, Butler, Jefferson and Addison have contributed very little. 

 

Add that to a less than explosive Oliver, Trent Murphy & Jerry Hughes slowing down and we have a weak defense.  I don't blame Frazier or any of the coaches.  It's about talent.

 

I do somewhat disagree with this. Addison and Jefferson have been what they were supposed to be. Jefferson is an interior pass rusher and Addison has been an effective edge rusher. However Butler, Norman and most of the time Klein have all fizzled. The defensive issues on the front 7 in my opinion have been more so a result of the regression from players on the roster. 

 

Ed Oliver is playing out of position, H.Phillips hasn't come back from the injury, Star opted out, Hughes got off to a slow start, Murphy has looked worse, Edumonds has regressed due to injury and poor play at the DT position and Milano has been hurt. 

 

Good news is that Hughes looks to be turning it around and the team hits the bye at the right time hopefully that will help get Edumonds right and Milano is on a 3 week IR stint hopefully that's proper rest. Overall I think Jefferson and Addison have been what they were brought in to be, its the player from 2019 that are more the issue.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

15 hours ago, thenorthremembers said:

Addison,  Klein and Jefferson have been average.  Butler has been bad.  Norman has hardly played, been turned into a meme and singlehandly removed 10% of our roster from a big game.  Not great Bob.

 

Butler was supposed to rotate at 3T with oliver.  Now he's basically playing nose tackle because he's the biggest. 

 

Jefferson was supposed to be moved around a fair bit but mostly to be out there on passing downs with oliver.  They're doing this some, but he's also had to rotate at NT because phillips isn't performing - same with zimmer.  Nobody on the team is capable of performing there at this point.  

 

Klein was supposed to be the 3rd LB playing against rushing teams on early downs.  He's ended up playing a fair amount of snaps this year - probably more than he was supposed to. 

 

Norman has been hurt legit all year.  Camp, came back, got hurt again, came back, got covid - like yes that hasn't worked out but you can't forecast that many injuries.  

[thenorthremembers]

1 minute ago, dneveu said:

 

Butler was supposed to rotate at 3T with oliver.  Now he's basically playing nose tackle because he's the biggest. 

 

Jefferson was supposed to be moved around a fair bit but mostly to be out there on passing downs with oliver.  They're doing this some, but he's also had to rotate at NT because phillips isn't performing - same with zimmer.  Nobody on the team is capable of performing there at this point.  

 

Klein was supposed to be the 3rd LB playing against rushing teams on early downs.  He's ended up playing a fair amount of snaps this year - probably more than he was supposed to. 

 

Norman has been hurt legit all year.  Camp, came back, got hurt again, came back, got covid - like yes that hasn't worked out but you can't forecast that many injuries.  

A huge part of the reason the Bills sign players is position flexibility.  They signed these guys to pretty decent sized contracts, so if they signed guys who cant produce because they came up against some adversity, I'd say they still signed the wrong guys.    If you are paying two defensive tackles between 8 and 9 million a year, and a practice squad player is outproducing, and outplaying them, there is an issue.  And make no mistake Zimmer is playing better than both of them.

 

On Norman, I'd say you would expect a 33 year old player who missed a quarter of last year due to injury to be a bit of an injury risk.  

 

I am not going to say they should have signed Lawson and Phillips instead because honestly they havent been much better this year.   Long term the signings may be fine, just not paying immediate dividends.  For what its worth I think the Addison signing has been ok.

[Real McClappy]

On 11/15/2020 at 10:57 PM, Thurman#1 said:

I know. Other defenses have fared so well against Kyler and the Cards.

 

IMO Addison and Butler have been good. Some of the others not so much. And Norman when on the field, has also had some nice moments.

Norman helped seal a W against the Raiders. Zimmer helped seal a W against the Pats.  Wash those 2 plays and the Bills could be 5-5 right now. Hell, If Klein wasn't in against Seattle is the outcome a W?

Edited November 17, 2020 by Real McNasty

[Putin]

16 hours ago, MJS said:

Most fans and pundits thought the signings were good. And our defense is playing better lately. Maybe give them some more time.

Even more time ? They’ve had plenty of time to get their s**t together in the preseason & training camp ,

Bass is the perfect example why we shouldn’t give time to anybody and he should have been released after his first game , no more time for nobody 

Go Bills 

23 minutes ago, Real McNasty said:

Norman helped seal a W against the Raiders. Zimmer helped seal a W against the Pats.  Wash those 2 plays and the Bills could be 5-5 right now. . 

This is not the thread to point out anything positive sir 

Edited November 17, 2020 by Putin

[Pirate Angel]

Star sitting out and Harrison Phillip's not developing, leaving the one tech DT empty has hurt the most. Our LBs have O lineman in their laps. Not being able to stop the run on first and 2nd down means fewer third and longs. 3rd and long the defensive play calling gets easier and the defensive lineman are in hunt mode. Chain reaction starting from the middle front.