Gilmore Selling his home

[LABILLBACKER]

Cam melting down after his diagnosis. Edelman out with Knee. Gilmore rumored to possibly be traded? If the Patriots were ever more vulnerable this is it. We're coming off 3 straight weak performances. If we don't come out with our hair on fire and blow these guys out I will lose a ton of respect for McD.

[YoloinOhio]

39 minutes ago, Process said:

Is there a reason the pats would trade their best defensive player? I don't get it. Surely they are not ready to tank and give up on the season.

They have other good corners actually and his cap hit next year is atrocious. JC Jackson may be playing better than him right now. They aren’t a SB contender. It’s the right move to trade him if they can get a 1st. 

[dave mcbride]

3 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Really?

Seymour had 2 more Pro Bowl seasons out of 4 and then was out of the league

Milloy had 0 more Pro Bowl seasons and was a shell of his former self by the time he left Buffalo 3 years later

Logan Mankins played 2 more seasons making 1 Pro Bowl then retired

Nate Solder has been an absolute dumpster fire for the Giants

Jamie Collins is on his 3rd team after getting traded by New England the first time (one of those teams being New England again who then let him go again)

Ty Law had one great season with the Jets one good season with KC then fell off the planet

Gostkowski is currently having the worst year of his career

Welker caught 118 balls his last year in New England which is only 18 less than he caught in the remainder of his career combined

Vinatieri is an exception in performance but not in salary. The Patriots spent a total of 11.4M salary cap dollars on Vinatieri in 10 seasons. The Colts spent 39.7M cap dollars on him over  the next 14 years. BB replaced him with the aforementioned Gostkowski who costs almost exactly the same amount as Vinatieri over those same 14 years except Gostkowski was better statistically while kicking outside.

Brady is still excellent but does anyone think that will last longer than a year or two?

Gronkowski had a good game Sunday but is still a shadow of his former self. Again, do you see a long excellent career for him in Tampa?

It's not really fair to say they "only" had a couple of good seasons after 7-8 good seasons in NE. Corey Dillon only had one great season in NE after a bunch of great seasons in Cincy, but he was central to their SB winning team (over 1600 rushing yards). Same with Revis when he came to NE, Ted Washington when he went to NE (where absolutely dominated in 03), and Aqib Talib in a variety of locations (including NE). Welker was very valuable in Denver in his first year, and the team got to the SB. Teams know they're not getting 8 seasons of peak Ty Law, but they hope that in the 2 or so prime seasons he has left he can put them over the top. Law signed with a playoff team that made it to the second round the year before, but then their qb goes down and it's all over. He still had 10 picks in a great season.  Teams aren't looking for five great seasons from longtime former NE players, but rather a couple of good seasons plus an infusion of winning culture that hopefully makes them a SB contender. TB isn't looking for Brady to lead them to a SB in 2024; they are thinking about 2020 and 2021. And Gronk is now looking better than you suggest above.  

[wjag]

19 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

hes listed with an ankle injury though

 

That does feel a bit curious. 

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

Barring injury I can see Brady playing 4 more years at his current level of play which is amazing right now. Patriots made a huge mistake letting Brady go, thank you Belicheat.

I disagree.  He's hitting the wall.  There are already a lot of throws he can't make and they had to take out of the offense.  He's still playing well but the arm isn't going to get stronger.  There is a reason all of their outside WRs YPR has tanked this year and Scotty Miller is now a thing.  It will be interesting to see what happens when defenses readjust to what Tampa is doing now and they start daring them to throw deep on the outside.  

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, wjag said:

 

That does feel a bit curious. 

it is.

[spartacus]

49 minutes ago, Process said:

Is there a reason the pats would trade their best defensive player? I don't get it. Surely they are not ready to tank and give up on the season.

Trevor Lawrence has always been the plan

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

I disagree.  He's hitting the wall.  There are already a lot of throws he can't make and they had to take out of the offense.  He's still playing well but the arm isn't going to get stronger.  There is a reason all of their outside WRs YPR has tanked this year and Scotty Miller is now a thing.  It will be interesting to see what happens when defenses readjust to what Tampa is doing now and they start daring them to throw deep on the outside.  

hes hitting a wall? lol no.. there may be throws he cant make but hitting a wall hes not peyton Manning looked worse his last year.

[That's No Moon]

8 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It's not really fair to say they "only" had a couple of good seasons after 7-8 good seasons in NE. Corey Dillon only had one great season in NE after a bunch of great seasons in Cincy, but he was central to their SB winning team (over 1600 rushing yards). Same with Revis when he came to NE, Ted Washington when he went to NE (where absolutely dominated in 03), and Aqib Talib in a variety of locations (including NE). Welker was very valuable in Denver in his first year, and the team got to the SB. Teams know they're not getting 8 seasons of peak Ty Law, but they hope that in the 2 or so prime seasons he has left he can put them over the top. Law signed with a playoff team that made it to the second round the year before, but then their qb goes down and it's all over. He still had 10 picks in a great season.  Teams aren't looking for five great seasons from longtime former NE players, but rather a couple of good seasons plus an infusion of winning culture that hopefully makes them a SB contender. TB isn't looking for Brady to lead them to a SB in 2024; they are thinking about 2020 and 2021. And Gronk is now looking better than you suggest above.  

I feel like this is the point I was trying to make in my original post.   If you are acquiring Gilmore it better be for right now and right now only.

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

hes hitting a wall? lol no.. there may be throws he cant make but hitting a wall hes not peyton Manning looked worse his last year.

Peyton Manning was injured his last year.  That's different.

[dave mcbride]

Just now, That's No Moon said:

I feel like this is the point I was trying to make in my original post.   If you are acquiring Gilmore it better be for right now and right now only.

Yeah, absolutely. He goes to a team like Seattle, and they are the favorite to represent the NFC in the SB. GB could use him too. 

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, That's No Moon said:

I feel like this is the point I was trying to make in my original post.   If you are acquiring Gilmore it better be for right now and right now only.

Peyton Manning was injured his last year.  That's different.

not till the end of the yr before playoffs. 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

I disagree.  He's hitting the wall.  There are already a lot of throws he can't make and they had to take out of the offense.  He's still playing well but the arm isn't going to get stronger.  There is a reason all of their outside WRs YPR has tanked this year and Scotty Miller is now a thing.  It will be interesting to see what happens when defenses readjust to what Tampa is doing now and they start daring them to throw deep on the outside.  

He looked good throwing deep vs. the Raiders ...

[PrimeTime101]

If we got him cheap would you be happy we got him back to buffalo? yes or no?

 

hes not a process guy yet gilmore and white back there alows you to run some crazy blitz packages like what Seattle did when they had 2 great CB

[TBBills]

29 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

Really?

Seymour had 2 more Pro Bowl seasons out of 4 and then was out of the league

Milloy had 0 more Pro Bowl seasons and was a shell of his former self by the time he left Buffalo 3 years later

Logan Mankins played 2 more seasons making 1 Pro Bowl then retired

Nate Solder has been an absolute dumpster fire for the Giants

Jamie Collins is on his 3rd team after getting traded by New England the first time (one of those teams being New England again who then let him go again)

Ty Law had one great season with the Jets one good season with KC then fell off the planet

Gostkowski is currently having the worst year of his career

Welker caught 118 balls his last year in New England which is only 18 less than he caught in the remainder of his career combined

Vinatieri is an exception in performance but not in salary. The Patriots spent a total of 11.4M salary cap dollars on Vinatieri in 10 seasons. The Colts spent 39.7M cap dollars on him over  the next 14 years. BB replaced him with the aforementioned Gostkowski who costs almost exactly the same amount as Vinatieri over those same 14 years except Gostkowski was better statistically while kicking outside.

Brady is still excellent but does anyone think that will last longer than a year or two?

Gronkowski had a good game Sunday but is still a shadow of his former self. Again, do you see a long excellent career for him in Tampa?

Yea that looks like guys had good times after they left. You aren't looking for more than a couple of years from older guys that Patriots released.

 

Welker had his best year the year he left NE for Denver he caught 10TDs in 13 games.

Edited October 29, 2020 by TBBills

[Haslett_Stomp]

35 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

mmmmm glimore going to want to show the world how good he is sunday.. If hes still with the Pats sunday,he will remind them what they will miss. On the other hand.. antagonizing that temper of his may be to easy this game

 

Diggs is going to school Gilmore.

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

Diggs is going to school Gilmore.

i hope so

if he plays.. they could sit him out so hes healthy for trade

Edited October 29, 2020 by PrimeTime101

[Haslett_Stomp]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

i hope so

 

 

If Hogan can do it Diggs certainly can.

[Mango]

2 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

If we got him cheap would you be happy we got him back to buffalo? yes or no?

 

hes not a process guy yet gilmore and white back there alows you to run some crazy blitz packages like what Seattle did when they had 2 great CB

His cap hit this year is like $25M. I am not one of the resident cap-ologists, but it is pretty expensive for a rental this season. Next year is about $17.5M. I am actually less concerned about cost in draft capital and more concerned with managing the cap. The only way it works I think is probably with an extension as well to spread out the damage. But now you are extending a player who has not been good this year and taking a chance that he will return to form. If he doesn't you end up eating tons of $$$.

[Don Otreply]

18 minutes ago, Ed_Formerly_of_Roch said:

 

You know if it were any other player with a name like Jones, roberts, etc it wouldn't have worked, but first time I read your post, thought it said "stained foot...."

 

PS I see I'm about 100 miles south of you in Wilmington NC

Ah, I hadn’t updated my travels, we are in Beaufort SC presently, 

Continuing south after Some weather we are dodging, such is boat life,  currently anchored with a few other boats near the Ladies island bridge, we hope to winter in the Bahamas 🇧🇸 
 

Go Bills!!!

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Haslett_Stomp said:

 

If Hogan can do it Diggs certainly can.

on 2 player's

1 minute ago, Mango said:

His cap hit this year is like $25M. I am not one of the resident cap-ologists, but it is pretty expensive for a rental this season. Next year is about $17.5M. I am actually less concerned about cost in draft capital and more concerned with managing the cap. The only way it works I think is probably with an extension as well to spread out the damage. But now you are extending a player who has not been good this year and taking a chance that he will return to form. If he doesn't you end up eating tons of $$$.

we would give up a extra pick for Pats to eat some of that money

[bigK14094]

1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

There are rumblings coming out of New England that Gilmore is doing he same thing there he was doing here...ie, trying to protect himself from injury and not really playing as hard as he could or putting himself in some compromising positions on tackles.  Teddy Brushci brought this up, apparently he still is on radio there and has connections with people on the team and he said this is a real concern and that he noticed it on tape even before they brought it up in conversations...

d worthy.

 

Gilmore is a mercenary...he isn't a player you can rely on to be part of the team concept for more than a few years.

He never laid it on the line his last year in Buffalo.   Ran away from tackling running backs.....ala Deion Sanders.  I always thought a good stragedy against Gilmore would be to run to his side of the field as he would not challenge, but instead protect himself.  I was surprised that the Bills, who knew, didn't do that.

[Big Turk]

3 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

He never laid it on the line his last year in Buffalo.   Ran away from tackling running backs.....ala Deion Sanders.  I always thought a good stragedy against Gilmore would be to run to his side of the field as he would not challenge, but instead protect himself.  I was surprised that the Bills, who knew, didn't do that.

 

Apparently the same thing is going on there this year.

[Mango]

5 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

we would give up a extra pick for Pats to eat some of that money

 

WTF are you talking about? I may be wrong here, but I am fairly certain you can't just break down the contract into line items and sell/buy whatever portions of the contract you don't want to deal with. A team can't just go to NE and say, "hey we'll give you a 2nd for Gilmore, and if you pay an additional X part of his contract we will throw in a 4th too".

[JohnNord]

He just didn’t put his house on the market, he set a deadline for Tuesday at 5 which is the trade deadline.

 

So he’s gone but the only question is when will he be gone?

 

If Belichick thought this team had a reasonable chance to complete there’s little doubt that they even entertain talks to trade Gilmore

[Turk71]

I don't have time to read the thread but if he is really gone at the deadline, does he sit on Sunday?

[PirateHookerMD]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

I don't have time to read the thread but if he is really gone at the deadline, does he sit on Sunday?

 

He popped up on the injury report today. He might make a business decision to have a "knee injury"

[Turk71]

6 minutes ago, Mango said:

 

WTF are you talking about? I may be wrong here, but I am fairly certain you can't just break down the contract into line items and sell/buy whatever portions of the contract you don't want to deal with. A team can't just go to NE and say, "hey we'll give you a 2nd for Gilmore, and if you pay an additional X part of his contract we will throw in a 4th too".

I think you can do that, I'm not positive though. The Pats would trade Gilmore and cash for two picks. Pretty sure that's been done before.

[Nihilarian]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

Like I said in the other thread, which I expect this to be merged with soon, I saw the lack of effort against the 49ers. He knows the cheaters are done for the foreseeable future and that Belicheat is likely to retire soon, maybe at the end of the season.

I dream of this!

 

Hope Josh McDaniel's gets the job. We see what he has done in NE without Brady... he will be lucky to get HCing offers now.

 

The Patriots are the bottom of the division right with the Jets 

[Process]

36 minutes ago, spartacus said:

Trevor Lawrence has always been the plan

They already have more wins the the jets will all season... You don't really think they are in the running do you?

[Mango]

3 minutes ago, Turk71 said:

I think you can do that, I'm not positive though. The Pats would trade Gilmore and cash for two picks. Pretty sure that's been done before.

 

In theory you can trade cash, but you cannot trade cap space in that way.  So say you gave a 1st for Gilmore and $10M. You don't get a $10M increase on the salary cap. 

NO could have and most likely would have traded away picks for the Browns, Bills, Colts, etc.cap space over the last few years. It doesn't work that way. 

Edited October 29, 2020 by Mango
adding on

[Fan in Chicago]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

did a trade happen?

https://fansided.com/2020/10/28/stephon-gilmore-house-goes-sale-trade-rumors-swirling/

Rat deserting a sinking ship

[Haslett_Stomp]

42 minutes ago, bigK14094 said:

He never laid it on the line his last year in Buffalo.   Ran away from tackling running backs.....ala Deion Sanders.  I always thought a good stragedy against Gilmore would be to run to his side of the field as he would not challenge, but instead protect himself.  I was surprised that the Bills, who knew, didn't do that.

 

38 minutes ago, matter2003 said:

 

Apparently the same thing is going on there this year.

 

With Moss back on the field I'd love to see Gilmore have to make a "business decision".

 

[Beast]

If the Patriots are truly planning on moving on from Gilmore they will sit him this weekend.

Edited October 29, 2020 by Beast

[That's No Moon]

1 hour ago, TBBills said:

Yea that looks like guys had good times after they left. You aren't looking for more than a couple of years from older guys that Patriots released.

 

Welker had his best year the year he left NE for Denver he caught 10TDs in 13 games.

Again, this was the point I was making in my original post.

[Chicken Boo]

@That's No Moon They missed big time on Chandler Jones.  Other than that, Hoodie has done a good job of replacing players in his system. 

[Punching Bag]

2 hours ago, Billzgobowlin said:

I find it interesting the Patriots are 2-4 and all of a sudden Gilmore is no longer considered the best CB.  

 

Conclusion: it is all Gilmore's fault.

[Punching Bag]

1 hour ago, PrimeTime101 said:

i hope so

if he plays.. they could sit him out so hes healthy for trade

 

If he plays Safeties hit him hard making him not healthy enough for a trade.

1 hour ago, bigK14094 said:

He never laid it on the line his last year in Buffalo.   Ran away from tackling running backs.....ala Deion Sanders.  I always thought a good stragedy against Gilmore would be to run to his side of the field as he would not challenge, but instead protect himself.  I was surprised that the Bills, who knew, didn't do that.

 

Dieon was not a tackling back.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, PirateHookerMD said:

He popped up on the injury report today. He might make a business decision to have a "knee injury"

 

"Foot soreness" seems to work...

[Behindenemylines]

18 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

"Foot soreness" seems to work...

Aka “The Watkins”

[97bills]

2 hours ago, Process said:

Is there a reason the pats would trade their best defensive player? I don't get it. Surely they are not ready to tank and give up on the season.

BB knew this year would be so different with covid and no Brady and his smart enough to know they didn’t have a super bowl team. He will coach hard and say all the right things but he already had this year as a wash hence not trying to get a better qb and just taking cam last minute he will get his qb next year and start building again. This year didn’t catch him off guard. But by saying all that let’s stump them in the dirt GO BILLS