Frazier’s Gotta Be Fired

[SinceThe70s]

2 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

I’m also concerned, but I’m not panicking yet. Start 4-1, and hope to finish strong. That has a nice ring to me! 

 

My 'concerned' comment was intended as shade to the perennial non-believers and the reactionary folks on the board who get their panties in a bunch after every loss or declare us SB champs after every win. Silly

 

But after 5 games,  it's easier for me to shrug off the O's performance tonight than the D's.

 

 

[BigDingus]

No.

Fans blaming coordinators any time on-field execution goes bad is so cliché at this point.

Haven't we learned our lesson yet? Every year we always blame the OC...whether it was Manuel or Tyrod or Allen, didn't matter. EXECUTION and PERSONELL matter, and no coordinator can just make miracles happen. Why does McDermott get all the praise when the D is top 3, but when our injury-ridden, personnel-lacking D plays poorly (in a season where scoring has gone up dramatically across the league), it's now the DC?

Again, no. We know Frazier can coach. We need healthy players & better execution. 

[Marvlevydraftdaygenius]

6 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Frazier isn't the problem

 

McDermotts scheme has been figured out. McDermott needs to adjust his scheme with Frazier

 

Teams know what the bills run on first second and third down, this is the fourth year of the defense on tape.

 

They both need to 

Yes he is.  

[GunnerBill]

6 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

You bring up good points, but I think He’s definitely part of the problem.

 

For example. 3rd and 19 and you play press coverage without your top 2 corners and give up a first down? Inexcusable on Frazier’s part 

 

That was an awful call. I think it is fair to say none of the three coaches involved in playcalling - McDermott, Frazier or Daboll (add Farwell too I suppose) had their best nights but the problem remains a players one more than a coaching one IMO. 

 

The Dline isn't doing enough, our linebacking situation is a total mess and our corners are struggling. I feel like at the moment when Frazier looks down at his call sheet finding one he thinks the players can execute is a challenge.

[Thurman#1]

 

5 hours ago, BigDingus said:

No.

Fans blaming coordinators any time on-field execution goes bad is so cliché at this point.

Haven't we learned our lesson yet? Every year we always blame the OC...whether it was Manuel or Tyrod or Allen, didn't matter. EXECUTION and PERSONELL matter, and no coordinator can just make miracles happen. Why does McDermott get all the praise when the D is top 3, but when our injury-ridden, personnel-lacking D plays poorly (in a season where scoring has gone up dramatically across the league), it's now the DC?

Again, no. We know Frazier can coach. We need healthy players & better execution. 

 

 

Yes.

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Matt_In_NH]

One thing never changes.   When the bills lose people need to be fired immediately.   Sometimes at halftime.  

[gordong]

The problem is Erik Washington the d-line coach... he’s gotten nothing out of that group... nothing

 

   Too bad we don’t have Bill Teerlinck still

Edited October 14, 2020 by gordong

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, mattynh said:

One thing never changes.   When the bills lose people need to be fired immediately.   Sometimes at halftime.  

 

This. 

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

12 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Frazier isn't the problem

 

McDermotts scheme has been figured out. McDermott needs to adjust his scheme with Frazier

 

Teams know what the bills run on first second and third down, this is the fourth year of the defense on tape.

 

They both need to adjust

 

 

if it’s McD’s scheme why do we need Frazier??

 

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

if it’s McD’s scheme why do we need Frazier??

 

Why does any head coach need coordinators?

 

Because the head coach has way too many things he  needs to take care of. And McDermott and Frazier both come from Jim Johnson's lineage, and both run a version of his defense

 

So they both had the same mentor, and both likely see the game very similar

 

So it's probably easy to bounce ideas off each other, and work together on a common game plan

8 hours ago, Marvlevydraftdaygenius said:

Yes he is.  

It's McDermott's scheme that's getting roasted.  No play calling changes will change the fact that his system has been figured out

 

we couldn't get to the quarterback bringing six yesterday. We can't get there bringing four five or six. His blitz packages have been figured out

 

he needs to stop doing the same thing that he's been doing for 4 years on every down

 

Coaches get paid to coach and they figured what him and Frazier do defensively. They need to stop being predictable

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why does any head coach need coordinators?

 

Because the head coach has way too many things he  needs to take care of. And McDermott and Frazier both come from Jim Johnson's lineage, and both run a version of his defense

 

So they both had the same mentor, and both likely see the game very similar

 

So it's probably easy to bounce ideas off each other, and work together on a common game plan

It's McDermott's scheme that's getting roasted.  No play calling changes will change the fact that his system has been figured out

 

we couldn't get to the quarterback bringing six yesterday. We can't get there bringing four five or six. His blitz packages have been figured out

 

he needs to stop doing the same thing that he's been doing for 4 years on every down

 

Coaches get paid to coach and they figured what him and Frazier do defensively. They need to stop being predictable

 

 

 

And especially on 1st down. I know there was the 3rd and 19 completion but over the season as a rule when we have forced into 3rd and long and made people play conventional drop back we have a bit better. The problem is 1st down we must be averaging one of the worst numbers in the league. We are being playactioned to death.

[dave mcbride]

15 hours ago, BillsFan130 said:

That is true. But Frazier does call the plays. And they seem very vanilla/predictable.

 

 

 

 

They seem vanilla/predictable because the front seven (pick your combo) simply cannot beat their man in passing situations with any regularity. Not having a pass rush makes every opposing offense look good. Same goes for the Bills - Allen is mostly untouched back there. 

[billsfan_34]

15 hours ago, corta765 said:

Enough of enough with the defense. I get injuries happen and they were playing short handed. But the overall scope of this season the defense has been an embarrassment and a shell of last year. They look lost regularly, unprepared, and their situational football is atrocious. The amount of 3rd and longs all season that keep being converted is unreal.

 

Right now the Bills are behind KC TEN BAL NE PIT in terms of ranking in conference. All of those teams have defenses that will do better and unless Allen and the offense is literally perfect game in game out we’re toast against the big boys.

 

Fire Frazier let McD take back play calling and send a firm message to the defense this isn’t good enough. I truly don’t believe anything else will send a strong enough message they don’t have the leaders like Zo or Kyle to get these guys in line.

Chill- Frazier isnt going anywhere. Injuries and lack of “beef” on the d-line will shut down most defenses. The last 2 years a top notch defense and 5 games in lets fire him? Xanax inbound to you 😜

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

I can’t stand the way this guy calls a defense. He’s so overly conservative and soft with these zones.  When we get a lead it’s instant prevent. I don’t want to “bend” constantly and don’t break. I want to dictate tone and play and make teams Uncomfortable. Good QBs can just sit back all day and carve us up. McDermott really needs to take this defense over. I know it won’t happen but that’s the fix IMO.

[Alphadawg7]

Missing our Pro Bowl LB and starting two corners and anchor of the DL in Star...solution is fire the DC?  LMAO at these precious hot takes.  Its way too early for that...and after one loss against one of the 5 best teams in the AFC none the less.  

[corta765]

4 minutes ago, billsfan_34 said:

Chill- Frazier isnt going anywhere. Injuries and lack of “beef” on the d-line will shut down most defenses. The last 2 years a top notch defense and 5 games in lets fire him? Xanax inbound to you 😜

 

So we are cool with the defense allowing an average out 32.5 pts a game not including the Jets who are a NCAA division 3 team? I get tired of the injury excuse because every team has injuries and you have to be able to overcome that. We have the 30th ranked 3rd down defense in the league they can't get off the field. The adjustments don't exist, the defense makes no impact plays, and in general they look figured out by opposing offenses and lack luster energy wise. Coordinators are fired all the time sometimes its a good way to jolt awake an otherwise non responding unit.

[Nester]

a lot of things went wrong. 

 

Lets not double down on "Wrong" with knee jerk reactions. 

[Doc Brown]

Just put Frazier up in the box.  That will fix everything.

[dave mcbride]

8 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I can’t stand the way this guy calls a defense. He’s so overly conservative and soft with these zones.  When we get a lead it’s instant prevent. I don’t want to “bend” constantly and don’t break. I want to dictate tone and play and make teams Uncomfortable. Good QBs can just sit back all day and carve us up. McDermott really needs to take this defense over. I know it won’t happen but that’s the fix IMO.

You dictate to opponents via a pass rush, and the Bills are currently talent-deficient. Their D line corps plus LoRax was more talented last season than it is this season when it came to getting to the passer. 

2 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

So we are cool with the defense allowing an average out 32.5 pts a game not including the Jets who are a NCAA division 3 team? I get tired of the injury excuse because every team has injuries and you have to be able to overcome that. We have the 30th ranked 3rd down defense in the league they can't get off the field. The adjustments don't exist, the defense makes no impact plays, and in general they look figured out by opposing offenses and lack luster energy wise. Coordinators are fired all the time sometimes its a good way to jolt awake an otherwise non responding unit.

Look at the talent. The Bills were a top five time the last two seasons on defense. They have serious front-seven talent issues. I have to think they are seeking out help right now. 

[Buffalo716]

30 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And especially on 1st down. I know there was the 3rd and 19 completion but over the season as a rule when we have forced into 3rd and long and made people play conventional drop back we have a bit better. The problem is 1st down we must be averaging one of the worst numbers in the league. We are being playactioned to death.

Yeah first down has been killer all year for us. Also one thing I've noticed, is McDermott and Frazier have not been dialing up dual a gap disguises as frequently as in the past on 3rd down

 

Maybe they're saving them so they're not all on tape

 

But McDermott and Frazier loved showing double a gap looks and then dropping into quarters or man with an occasional overload

 

And he was really good at confusing quarterbacks with it. And it's somewhat disappeared this year

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[billsfan_34]

6 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

So we are cool with the defense allowing an average out 32.5 pts a game not including the Jets who are a NCAA division 3 team? I get tired of the injury excuse because every team has injuries and you have to be able to overcome that. We have the 30th ranked 3rd down defense in the league they can't get off the field. The adjustments don't exist, the defense makes no impact plays, and in general they look figured out by opposing offenses and lack luster energy wise. Coordinators are fired all the time sometimes its a good way to jolt awake an otherwise non responding unit.

No one is happy with the D, but right now is not the time to fire anyone for the reasons I already mentioned. Frazier is a damn good DC- it wasn’t him that let J. Phillips walk and it wasnt him that decided Star would opt out. He certainly did not sign Josh Norman who has nothing left...I could go on and on but I think we understand each other.

[billsfan_34]

34 minutes ago, Nester said:

a lot of things went wrong. 

 

Lets not double down on "Wrong" with knee jerk reactions. 

If the OP was consistent, we should be firing the ST coordinator also 😜

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why does any head coach need coordinators?

 

Because the head coach has way too many things he  needs to take care of. And McDermott and Frazier both come from Jim Johnson's lineage, and both run a version of his defense

 

So they both had the same mentor, and both likely see the game very similar

 

So it's probably easy to bounce ideas off each other, and work together on a common game plan

haven’t we seen enough blowouts where McD took over the play calling?

 

(yes we have). 
 

 

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

haven’t we seen enough blowouts where McD took over the play calling?

 

(yes we have). 
 

 

McDermott has on record only taken over play calling once. And he gave it right back to Frazier After the game

 

What goes on behind closed doors we don't know, but McDermott said he gave Frazier play calling duties right back, and he has never publicly said he took them away again

Edited October 14, 2020 by Buffalo716

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

McDermott has on record only taken over play calling once. And he gave it right back to Frazier After the game

 

What goes on behind closed doors we don't know, but McDermott said he gave Frazier play calling duties right back, and he has never publicly said he took them away again

 

Correct

[Buffalo716]

8 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Correct

People literally think that he's taken play calling away from him half a dozen times or something

 

But literally on record it's happened once in 4 years

[Buddo]

Frazier is a good coach, and a decent DC. This year he's hampered by changes in personnel, and injuries to key components.

 

Sometimes, the clay you are using to mould with, simply isn't goo0d enough.

[NewEra]

Team is 4-1.....fire the assistant head coach/defensive coordinator.

[BillsFan130]

1 hour ago, dave mcbride said:

They seem vanilla/predictable because the front seven (pick your combo) simply cannot beat their man in passing situations with any regularity. Not having a pass rush makes every opposing offense look good. Same goes for the Bills - Allen is mostly untouched back there. 

TENN had probably 2/3 plays at the top of my head where they had a free rusher at allen as soon as he basically snapped the ball. Whether that was a corner that disguised his blitz, or a linebacker looping around.

 

I guess that is my point when it comes to Frazier. Didn't see anything like that. It was just predictable rush 4, or a really predictable blitz.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yeah first down has been killer all year for us. Also one thing I've noticed, is McDermott and Frazier have not been dialing up dual a gap disguises as frequently as in the past on 3rd down

 

Maybe they're saving them so they're not all on tape

 

But McDermott and Frazier loved showing double a gap looks and then dropping into quarters or man with an occasional overload

 

And he was really good at confusing quarterbacks with it. And it's somewhat disappeared this year

 

 

 

 

...what's your assessment as to why my friend?....last year it was the offensive hiccups which seemed to have been address so far in 2020.....never saw the precipitous drop from penthouse to outhouse so far in 2020 (yes it is early and there are injuries and youth still learning).........is it "either or" mode?....

[Mike in Horseheads]

I don't know, seems like he and his dad have worked things out and Niles married Daphne. What about Eddie?

[Figster]

I don't like to make excuses, but when you take Milano and Tre White out of the equation the Buffalo Bills are not the same football team.

 

Arguably our two MVP's on D IMO. 

 

Facing one of the best teams in the NFL.

 

If Buffalo's O does what it has been doing we're not even discussing this IMO.

 

Losing the turnover battle kills you...

Edited October 14, 2020 by Figster

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 minutes ago, Figster said:

I don't like to make excuses, but when you take Milano and Tre White out of the equation the Buffalo Bills are not the same football team.

 

Arguably our two MVP's on D IMO. 

 

Facing one of the best teams in the NFL.

 

If Buffalo's O does what it has been doing we're not even discussing this IMO.

 

Losing the turnover battle kills you...

 

...good call 'Fig......and now we're back to the Edmunds blame game for a 20 something.....stud...dud......stud...dud...he sucks......then we have Ed Oliver...rinse and repeat followed by Espensa.....SMH......wanna be drafted by Blfo and go through the TBD Expert Gauntlet?........

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

3 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...good call 'Fig......and now we're back to the Edmunds blame game for a 20 something.....stud...dud......stud...dud...he sucks......then we have Ed Oliver...rinse and repeat followed by Espensa.....SMH......wanna be drafted by Blfo and go through the TBD Expert Gauntlet?........

 

Problem with your theory:

They have all sucked on ice.

 

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

1 minute ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Problem with your theory:

They have all sucked on ice.

 

 

 

...so why the drop?...doesn't ice eventually "melt"?......

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so why the drop?...doesn't ice eventually "melt"?......

 

There was never a solid level of play from any of them.

 

Edmunds flashed a little and Ed's had like one really good game.

 

Empanada hasn't done anything other than get penalties called on himself.

 

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

There was never a solid level of play from any of them.

 

Edmunds flashed a little and Ed's had like one really good game.

 

Empanada hasn't done anything other than get penalties called on himself.

 

 

...so is Frazier the right guy to bring along and develop youth or has Beane woefully missed in draft choices?......

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...so is Frazier the right guy to bring along and develop youth or has Beane woefully missed in draft choices?......

 

No.

 

both can be true. Frasier can be woeful, and the draft picks bad.

 

[purple haze]

19 hours ago, corta765 said:

Enough of enough with the defense. I get injuries happen and they were playing short handed. But the overall scope of this season the defense has been an embarrassment and a shell of last year. They look lost regularly, unprepared, and their situational football is atrocious. The amount of 3rd and longs all season that keep being converted is unreal.

 

Right now the Bills are behind KC TEN BAL NE PIT in terms of ranking in conference. All of those teams have defenses that will do better and unless Allen and the offense is literally perfect game in game out we’re toast against the big boys.

 

Fire Frazier let McD take back play calling and send a firm message to the defense this isn’t good enough. I truly don’t believe anything else will send a strong enough message they don’t have the leaders like Zo or Kyle to get these guys in line.

🤣🤣🤣

when the defense does well some folks on this board give McD the credit like Frazier doesn’t exist.  When the defense does poorly it’s all Frazier’s fault. 🙄  They both hold responsibility.  Frazier is running the show.  McD is involved in his ways I’m sure.  Frazier is the D coordinator because they have similar views on defense.  They want pressure from the front four.  They will send pressure but don’t seem to prefer it. 
 

Current issue is the defensive line hasn’t been getting enough pressure and the players they need to be difference makers are not playing at that level.  LBs are struggling too.  That’s putting pressure on the DBs.  Domino effect.

 

 

Edited October 14, 2020 by purple haze

[Scott7975]

Remember when people wanted Daboll fired last season?  I was actually pretty close to wanting it but not quite there yet.  Turns out he just needed a little more talent and some improvement out of the existing guys.

 

Frazier is a good coach that had no talent on the field last night.