The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

[SF Bills Fan]

Lamar Jackson is a very limited QB. He can be very flashy with his runs but his passing is mediocre. He is kind of like Michael Vick part 2.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

I can agree Lamar was never sustaining an MVP level of play with their style. Let’s not forget they were killing teams last year and padding his stats like crazy. All the stat lovers immediately point out how many passing touchdowns he had yet fail to mention how many were from like 1 yard out which is obviously impossible to defend him. They run 70 yards down the field then play action from a yard out and he gets a passing touchdown. Still counts but skews this perception he’s a good passer. He’s not about to be run out of the league or anything but I think is MVP days might be numbered. Roman generally is ineffective after year 2. 
Kyler I’m not so sure of yet, he’s very limited as a passer because of his height. They have to move the pocket for him to see which puts him on the move virtually every play. I also can’t have too much faith in a quarterback who is a pro and still cannot take a snap from under center. Week 1, end of game... To take the knee he takes the snap from shotgun. I only know cause my nephew has him on fantasy football and was highly upset he lost 10 yards rushing on 2 kneel downs and sent me video of Kyler taking a knee from shotgun. Weird. 

he came into the game last night leading the league in YPA

[LeGOATski]

I agree with the point about pocket passing. I think that's pretty obvious.

 

But Jackson is another Vick. I don't think his era is over until he gets injured or too old.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Ballsy post by the OP, he knew he would get push back and still made his opinion known with strong analysis. I think the end of an era thing my be somewhat hyperbolic-by design? I'm not sure.

 

Personally, I've always though many of the same things, and worry about him getting hurt. Once he starts getting hurt it likely won't end either. The comparison to Josh is interesting in the fact that Buffalo, Daboll, Allen et al seem to be evolving by adding pieces and moving towards a more traditional QB led offense combined with using the newer taking advantage of the movement skills of a great athlete.

 

The league always adjust to players and what looks unstoppable like Lamar last year will have to adjust. Greg Roman IMO has always shown a nice ability to build around what he has. Whether he can take it to another level is another question. What if this model they're using with Jackson doesn't have anywhere to go unless he improves certain elements of his game?

 

I think Shaw66 may be on to something I've noticed since the end of last year as well. The league is figuring it out and some teams will be able to handle it, others with weaker talent may not at first thus still good numbers sometimes for Jackson. Has there ever been a team with a QB quite like this win the Super Bowl? It remains to be seen, there is a reason NFL coaches prefer the Mahomes, Allen model. The days of a statue QB are over, they want movement skills. But, they also realize you have to be able to attack certain areas on the better squads in particular.

 

Great post!

[Rc2catch]

4 minutes ago, Chemical said:

he came into the game last night leading the league in YPA

And? He played Houston and Cleveland. What’s that got to do with his stats from last year? It’s easy to pad stats when you’re winning 38-3 in the third quarter and defenses are playing you to run and kill clock which they did a lot last year. 

[Coach Tuesday]

4 minutes ago, H2o said:

I understand what you are getting at, and I do agree with you to an extent, but sometimes he is going to have to realize you can't make a play every time the ball is in your hands. Some times you just have to live to fight another down, especially in the playoffs because that's when the stakes are the highest. He has been fantastic at bailing himself out thus far by making big play after big play, but it's also a testament to the guys we have in place around him stepping up as well. I've been all in on Allen since I first saw him step onto the field, saw the presence he had out there, and the energy he brought to this team as a whole. His growth that we have all witnessed at the QB position has been nothing short of amazing. Now it's just the little things that can put him right beside Mahomes in that convo for being the best QB in the league imo. 

 

I agree with you.  I think, when someday the book on Allen's career is written (which will include several Lombardis), one of the themes will be that he learned the hard way to save himself for the next play.  It may not happen this year, but it's going to happen with the way he plays - he's going to get himself hurt.  Every single QB or player generally who plays the way he does eventually gets hurt, and many of them change their behavior afterwards as a result.  You can tell McD is struggling with how to coach this aspect of Josh's personality - you want the fire and the compete, you love the toughness and leadership, but there's just a fine line between going all out and taking unnecessary risks.  Someday, Allen will learn to throw the ball out of bounds or run out of bounds or slide, because he'll get hurt.  And the change won't be out of fear of getting hurt - it will be because he hates letting his teammates down by getting hurt.  That's the kind of person he is.

[TheElectricCompany]

6 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Ballsy post by the OP, he knew he would get push back and still made his opinion known with strong analysis.

 

What analysis? There are zero statistics, no videos to check out, just lazy opinions

 Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't. 

If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer.

 

Have we ever spoken about a MVP in that way? Seriously. It's beyond asinine. 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2020 by TheElectricCompany

[Ethan in Cleveland]

46 TD passes against only 9 interceptions. 

Career QB rating of 107

What else does he need to do to be a passing QB?

[Rock'em Sock'em]

Lamar's pairing with Greg Roman is fantastic.  Jackson was league MVP last year.  He passed for over 3000 yards and 36 TDs.  Referring to him (and also Kyler Murray) as a running back is not right.  The immediate impact of having Lamar at QB is undeniable.  Scoring 20 points on the SB favorites really just indicates that the Ravens are not the Super Bowl favorites.  I don't think it's an indicator that a Jackson-led team won't make the playoffs or that the era is over.  The longevity, long-term success, and success at the highest levels of running quarterbacks has not always been there.

 

By contrast, the Bills had decided to draft a project, but passing quarterback.  It's taken a couple years, but Allen's improvement and on-the-field play this year has exceeded Jackson's improvement and play.  Hopefully that trend continues for years to come.

[Buffalo Boy]

41 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage and won't respond further. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

Disagree strongly.

LJ does what he does well but , as a bunch of us said last year, if you force him to stay in the pocket and take away the between the hashmark throws, he can’t do it.

Last night was an example.

He’s a dangerous weapon and when coupled with a good D he can win A LOT of games. 
He ISN’T a premier passer who can make all the throws.

Also, it’s easy to play relaxed With a lead, not so much from behind. He has no comebacks from a 10 point deficit...... that’s Tyrod Taylor territory .

[whatdrought]

44 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Eh. I would be pissed if JA had a clunker and the rest of the league said, see! I told you he wasn't any good! I don't think we should do the same to LJ. 

 

Tonight seemed as much about LJ having an off night as anything. 

He seems to have off nights whenever the bright lights are on against a better team. 
 

Everyone saying it’s only one game clearly missed the playoffs the past two years.

 

43 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage and won't respond further. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

 

What an idiotic response. 

 

“Um, this post is so bad and so wrong that I’m so offended that I won’t even tell you why It’s so bad and wrong, I’ll just use a quote that makes me look like I know what I’m talking about even though I won’t engage the topic.”

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, whatdrought said:

He seems to have off nights whenever the bright lights are on against a better team. 
 

Everyone saying it’s only one game clearly missed the playoffs the past two years.

 

 

What an idiotic response. 

 

“Um, this post is so bad and so wrong that I’m so offended that I won’t even tell you why It’s so bad and wrong, I’ll just use a quote that makes me look like I know what I’m talking about even though I won’t engage the topic.”

 

Yes, I waste my time all week on a football fan message board, and then I proceed to not watch the playoffs.  That checks out. 

[sullim4]

Jackson has to improve as a passer if he expects to remain an elite quarterback.  We've all seen the improvements over last season from Allen... I haven't seen that from Jackson.  The other knock against Jackson - he cannot come from behind and he appears defeated when he's in a hole.  Both Mahomes and Allen have proven they can do this.

 

Jackson looks like the same quarterback he was last year.  If defenses can force him into a pass heavy game, he's going to be ineffective.  Personally, that is not the player I would want at quarterback and why so many people whined about Allen being unable to hit 300yds until this season.

 

FWIW, despite the looming matchup with KC, I think Allen's big test is Belichick and NE*.  They write the defensive blueprints for other teams to beat an opposing quarterback.  Allen has to prove he can beat the cheaters before I give him a seat at the elite quarterback table.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

2 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

And? He played Houston and Cleveland. What’s that got to do with his stats from last year? It’s easy to pad stats when you’re winning 38-3 in the third quarter and defenses are playing you to run and kill clock which they did a lot last year. 

Are we knocking QBs for who they’ve played now? Lamar has plenty of deep passes last year 

a quick google search of Lamar Jackson deep passing pulls up this quote. 

 

“Including the postseason, he completed 27 of 68 deep passes for 829 yards, 12 touchdowns, two interceptions, and a passer rating of 113.3, fifth-best in the league among quarterbacks who took at least 50% of their snaps

 

68 passes would be 17% of all of Jackson’s passing attempts last season, while also accounting for 26.5% of his total passing yards and a third of his touchdown passes from 2019.”

 

also the first 3-4 plays in this highlight reel show he can do it. There are plenty more if you keep watching:

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaw66]

Hah! I didn't say Jackson is a bad athlete or wont ever play another down.  I said you cant have a consistently offense unless you have a qb who can run a full scale NFL passing offense from the pocket.  Jackson cant do it and is way behind Allen learning it. And even if Jackson can learn it, as long as they try to feature the running qb, they cant send receivers deep.  

 

It was completely obvious watching those two offenses. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

2 minutes ago, sullim4 said:

Allen has to prove he can beat the cheaters before I give him a seat at the elite quarterback table.

 

This is fair.

 

[GunnerBill]

One MVP season is not an era.

One bad game cannot end an era.

[racketmaster]

Yeah, I think it is too early to declare the end of the Jackson "era" if there was one to begin with (he was the MVP but he has yet to win a playoff game so he has not been dominating the league in the post season where it counts). I agree with the OP to a certain extent with Jackson in that I don't see Jackson ever being a long term answer at QB and it is why I never really thought we should have drafted him. For sure he can and will continue to be dominant at times during the regular season and as long as he stays healthy he should have is team consistently in the playoffs for 5-6 years which is an excellent draft pick for the end of first round. Beyond that is where things get dicey for me. You see, very soon Jackson will be coming up on his second contract just like Josh Allen. The Ravens will have to pay him 40 mil a year for probably 5 more years in an extension. But that is where I would be extremely worried if I were the Ravens. Jackson is never going to be faster, more elusive or athletic than he is right now at this moment. It is all a decline from here on out as he accumulates hits, minor or major injuries and goes through the natural aging process. Plus, the NFL just gets faster and faster so just like when Vick first came out he could dominate most defenders but the league got faster and closed the gap. I think defenders will only get faster as Jackson naturally gets slower. It will take only one major injury to significantly hamper his running ability and he is basically shot. Jackson's entire game is predicated on his ability to threaten a defense as a runner, and he is a runner at the qb position that the league has never seen since Vick (by comparing athletic standards of the peers he played against). If and when Jackson suffers a hamstring injury or ankle sprain he does not have the ability to play through it and still help his team win. You see last year how Mahomes struggled some with his knee injury but he was able to come back sooner and play through it and still be effective enough to win games and play through it until he recovered. Jackson needs to be at close to full health. He can't play through a knee sprain as he cannot play a full game from inside the pocket. And at this point in his career he is not going to develop into a better pocket passer (just like a Tebow but much more of an athletic threat). 

 

So long story is the Jackson era over, no, not yet. But what is the Jackson era and what does it really mean long term. It means for now the Ravens are in line to win 11-12 games per year and be a playoff team year in and year out for the next 5-6 years as long as he avoids major injury. But when he gets to the playoffs and has to play at least 3 good teams and most likely 4 without the bye to win a Super Bowl it will almost certainly end in disappointment each year. It will be extremely difficult for the Ravens to play from in front for all 3-4 games in the playoffs against quality opponents as once they get down he has proven incapable of passing his team back into the game. After "getting close" for 5-6 years and getting a huge payday is when I seen the physical decline and eventually he is done as a franchise quarterback by around the age of 30. I'll take my chances with an Allen over Jackson in the long term any day of the week and twice on Sunday. It may not work out as Allen could also suffer some career ending injury but he has the ability to shift his game to the pocket (or more accurately in and around the pocket) and we have already begun to see this shift. So where as Jackson will likely be done by the time he is 30, Allen has the chance to plays great football deep into his late 30's because he has such a strong arm that even a natural decline will still allow him to play effectively as he matures and gains anticipation and field awareness. This will allow Allen to have a chance to win a SB potentially for the next 15+ years where as Jackson has a very narrow path to win one over the next 5 years. As for Murray, I think he is a much better passer than Jackson is and he could develop into a Russell Wilson like qb down the road. He is so small (even compared with Wilson and Brees) that I don't think he will ever be as good as Wilson but he has a better chance to win a SB while in his prime because he can threaten as a runner and as a passer.

Edited September 29, 2020 by racketmaster

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 hour ago, Shaw66 said:

I've said since the beginning of the year that I'm not buying the Lamar Jackson hype, and I'm not buying the Kyler Murray hype, either.   I know they are really special athletes, and they're a couple of the best running backs in the league, but they limit their offenses.  

 

The problem with Jackson is related to something McDermott (and plenty of other coaches) say all the time:  You have to force the opponent to defend the entire field - sideline to sideline and line of scrimmage to the goal line.  The reason is simple:  If you can threaten to strike anyplace on the field, the defense has to spread out to defend all those places.  When the defense spreads out, they create holes for the offense to attack. 

 

You could see the problem almost immediately last night.  One on side of the ball was a team, the Chiefs, that is perhaps the best in the league at attacking the whole field.  They will hurt you anyplace you leave unprotected.  The Ravens started out playing the game no more than 30 yards downfield, and as the game progress, they didn't even threaten that deep.  The defense tightened and tightened.  Sure, Jackson kept getting himself some nice runs here and there, but they essentially give up the ability to get 100-200 passing downfield to get an extra 50 or 100 out of Jackson.  That's a bad trade.  

 

The other thing that was apparent is that to be a premier QB, you MUST be able to stand in the pocket and direct the attack.  You can't run an effective, all-over-the-field passing attack from outside the hash marks.  Why?  Because you can't threaten deep passes down the right side if your QB is standing outside the left hashmark.  (Well, you can if your QB is Josh Allen, but that's something else.)   Your QB has to be able to stand in, see the entire field, make decisions, and then make throws.   Jackson couldn't do that last night.  If he's going to make it, he has a lot of work to do as a pocket passer.   But even that may not be enough, because if you're going to feature your QB running the ball, you need your receiver to stay shallow to block for him.  So in your regular offense, your receivers aren't running deep routes, so the deep threat isn't there.  

 

It was all pretty obvious watching last night.   Mahomes stands in the pocket, makes decisions and makes throws.   Jackson doesn't.  Jackson will not be a premier QB if he doesn't learn to play that traditional QB game.  He's way, way behind Josh Allen in developing those skills.  Allen plays much more like Mahomes than like Jackson.  McBeane have always said he was going to be a pocket passer.  They've been working on making him one since he arrived in Buffalo.  Baltimore went down the other road, building an offense that plays to Jackson's strengths, but that is an offense that by definition is limited.  I think they're wasting their time.   Jackson will hurt some teams sometimes, he'll force your defense to play a different style than their used to, but at the end of the season, Baltimore's offense will limit their ability to win big games.  

 

Finally, to bring it back to Allen and the Bills, Mahomes wasn't doing anything last night that Allen doesn't do.  Allen has the better arm, clearly, Mahomes is more poised and more able to attack weaknesses consistently - that's clear too.  What's so encouraging is that Allen can learn to be a great field general, but good as Mahomes arm is, he can't learn to throw like Josh.  

 

Bills are heading down the right road. 

 

I can't agree with you more.

on both bolded comments

 

Missed / overthrown passes.   But Josh Allen is inaccurate!!!    (my ***)

[TheElectricCompany]

8 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

What an idiotic response. 

 

“Um, this post is so bad and so wrong that I’m so offended that I won’t even tell you why It’s so bad and wrong, I’ll just use a quote that makes me look like I know what I’m talking about even though I won’t engage the topic.”

 

Par for the course in an idiotic thread.

Ya'll keep wasting brain cells trying to tear down league MVPs.

 

[NewEra]

You’re one of my favorite posters @Shaw66.

 

I think this take is a little shortsighted.

 

Compare LJs WRs to Josh’s.  You can’t.  Hollywood Brown is his best WR.  He would be our 3rd or possibly 4th best WR imo.  He isn’t that good.  He has zero catch radius.  Snead?  Bum.  Boykin?  Bum.  Duvernay is their best WR imo and he’s nothing special at this point.  Andrews is a very good TE.  He doesn’t make up for the lack of any good WRs.

 

my main problem with this post is the fact that your title says he’s done. His era is over.  Year 3.....as a QB....and his era is over.  Can’t get behind the notion that he can’t improve.  
 

I don’t really understand why Kyler murray is even mentioned in the thread.  He has a cannon and can make all the throws.  Just because he electric running the ball doesn’t mean he can’t throw.  He can and he will.  Mentioning him in this post just makes me more nervous about facing him this season.  I think he’s a much more natural thrower of the football than LJ

[whatdrought]

It really comes down to this with Lamar: 

 

He has some phenomenal strengths, and some serious weaknesses. Most young QB’s do. When you encounter a prospect with this you’re faced with two options: 

 

1- Help him grow through his weaknesses and improve so that he becomes more rounded and hopefully becomes a complete player. (The Josh Allen model) 

 

2- Ignore the weaknesses and focus entirely on the strengths, betting that you can magnify the strengths enough that the weaknesses don’t slow him down. (The Lamar Jackson model) 

 

(there’s also a third model where you heighten the weaknesses and do everything you can to ruin the strengths- we call that the Darnold) 

 

The Ravens decided early on that they wanted model two. Maybe the right decision, maybe not. Time will tell. Clearly they have had success, and I think it made a lot of sense because Jackson’s strengths were so strong, but the problem they’re coming up against is that when he goes against really good teams that can exploit his weaknesses, he has faltered. At times the strengths have made up for it, but when the chips are down he’s had some bad Goes of it. 
 

It comes down to this. Jackson is an elite runner of the ball, and he’s a really good passer when everything is working perfectly (I.e, when he’s protected, and his first or second read has good separation). What his weaknesses are is his inability to work the outside of the field, and his inability to stand in the pocket with pressure and deliver the football. When teams come into the game willing to ignore his strengths and focus on his weaknesses (by pressuring him, and by locking down the middle of the field) it results in bad games for him.
 

I think this is exasperated by a personality thing as well: Lamar is so good at what he does well that he’s always won that way. He really doesn’t have a context for winning differently and we see when his way gets shutdown he gets very frustrated and emotional which has a snowballing effect. 
 

The Ravens seem happy to use, abuse, and lose Lamar without trying to strengthen his weaknesses. They’ve had some success and may have more, but it’s hard to imagine them winning it all that way. 
 

 

1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

 

Par for the course in an idiotic thread.

Ya'll keep wasting brain cells trying to tear down league MVPs.

 

Man shut up. Stop acting like you know better without actually making an argument. You look a fool. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by whatdrought

[All_Pro_Bills]

Lamar Jackson is an exception talent and played to a level deserving of his MVP status last season.  And Roman's offense is well suited to his current skill set but does anyone see the strategy of the Ravens providing him any opportunities to develop his game to the next step?  Lamar has some critical weaknesses in his game.  Weaknesses that need to be developed or eliminated (if that's possible) to stop defenses from game planning against them and enable him to become more of a complete QB.  The kind of QB that can be effective in whatever circumstances are present. 

Compare this to the way the Bills have developed Allen and the improvement in his game over time.  The Bills didn't simply customize an offense around his strengths and accept his weaknesses and just go with it.  That to me seems what the Ravens are doing with Jackson.  If the intent of the Ravens is to win 10 plus games every season and lose in the playoffs when they encounter a 'complete' team and QB then they are well positioned for the next several seasons.  If they want to win it all they need to develop Jackson into a more complete QB and if that isn't possible start looking at 'Plan B'.     

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

57 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Say it with me..."We don't have to tear down Lamar, to prop Josh up".

 

Lamar is a phenomenal player and deserves his place at the "elite of the elite" table. Josh is well on his way to earning a seat. Both of these things can exist simultaneously.

 

Frankly, I find this take to be garbage and won't respond further. "The end of an era" because the MVP had one bad game?  Get outta here...

 

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

 

We don't have to prop up Lamar as being an elite passer either.  

 

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

5 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

Hah! I didn't say Jackson is a bad athlete or wont ever play another down.  I said you cant have a consistently offense unless you have a qb who can run a full scale NFL passing offense from the pocket.  Jackson cant do it and is way behind Allen learning it. And even if Jackson can learn it, as long as they try to feature the running qb, they cant send receivers deep.  

 

It was completely obvious watching those two offenses. 

Do you have any proof they can’t send receivers deep? He came into Last night’s game leading the league in YPA
 

if you just watch the first 4 plays of the highlight video above he can clearly hit the deep ball. 
 

Now you have stats and some  video countering your opinion. 
 

 

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

Are we knocking QBs for who they’ve played now? Lamar has plenty of deep passes last year 

a quick google search of Lamar Jackson deep passing pulls up this quote. 

 

“Including the postseason, he completed 27 of 68 deep passes for 829 yards, 12 touchdowns, two interceptions, and a passer rating of 113.3, fifth-best in the league among quarterbacks who took at least 50% of their snaps

 

68 passes would be 17% of all of Jackson’s passing attempts last season, while also accounting for 26.5% of his total passing yards and a third of his touchdown passes from 2019.”

 

also the first 3-4 plays in this highlight reel show he can do it. There are plenty more if you keep watching:

 

 

 

 

 

This is how I know you didn’t actually read my comment. A lot of his pass stats came in blowout time. This isn’t a debate over if he can make throws, or lead an offense or nothing. It’s about if he can sustain his play at an MVP level. They butchered teams last year and don’t get me wrong he had a magical season we may never see again but I doesn’t change that a decent amount of games were over by halftime for the most part. Defenses then played Baltimore to run and kill clock. Which left big plays in the pass game which padded his stats. Of course he made those plays and that takes talent, but it’s not the same as making those plays when you’re down 21-10 either which MVP elite quarterbacks do. He’s very limited as a passer and that doesn’t mean he’ll be out of the league in a year, just in my opinion means he cannot sustain MVP elite level play. It also does not help him that Romans trend is usually being figured out in year 2 and completely exposed year 3. 

[BananaB]

I never believed in the first place. Always figured it would come to an end. Not sure if you can say it has after one game. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by BananaB

[NewEra]

20 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

Ballsy post by the OP, he knew he would get push back and still made his opinion known with strong analysis. I think the end of an era thing my be somewhat hyperbolic-by design? I'm not sure.

 

Personally, I've always though many of the same things, and worry about him getting hurt. Once he starts getting hurt it likely won't end either. The comparison to Josh is interesting in the fact that Buffalo, Daboll, Allen et al seem to be evolving by adding pieces and moving towards a more traditional QB led offense combined with using the newer taking advantage of the movement skills of a great athlete.

 

The league always adjust to players and what looks unstoppable like Lamar last year will have to adjust. Greg Roman IMO has always shown a nice ability to build around what he has. Whether he can take it to another level is another question. What if this model they're using with Jackson doesn't have anywhere to go unless he improves certain elements of his game?

 

I think Shaw66 may be on to something I've noticed since the end of last year as well. The league is figuring it out and some teams will be able to handle it, others with weaker talent may not at first thus still good numbers sometimes for Jackson. Has there ever been a team with a QB quite like this win the Super Bowl? It remains to be seen, there is a reason NFL coaches prefer the Mahomes, Allen model. The days of a statue QB are over, they want movement skills. But, they also realize you have to be able to attack certain areas on the better squads in particular.

 

Great post!

There’s only been one other QB in league history that we can compare to LJ. Maybe two now, Kyler.

 

I’m not a huge LJ fan, I just think that the OP is a bit premature to call it the end.

[TheElectricCompany]

3 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

Man shut up. Stop acting like you know better without actually making an argument. You look a fool. 
 

That's the point - you don't need to when you're talking about MVPs.

The notion that you have to go into deep statistical analysis and All 22 review around a MVP is insane.

He's a phenomenal player, and I look forward to seeing what his next few chapters look like.

[Rock-A-Bye Beasley]

3 minutes ago, Rc2catch said:

This is how I know you didn’t actually read my comment. A lot of his pass stats came in blowout time. This isn’t a debate over if he can make throws, or lead an offense or nothing. It’s about if he can sustain his play at an MVP level. They butchered teams last year and don’t get me wrong he had a magical season we may never see again but I doesn’t change that a decent amount of games were over by halftime for the most part. Defenses then played Baltimore to run and kill clock. Which left big plays in the pass game which padded his stats. Of course he made those plays and that takes talent, but it’s not the same as making those plays when you’re down 21-10 either which MVP elite quarterbacks do. He’s very limited as a passer and that doesn’t mean he’ll be out of the league in a year, just in my opinion means he cannot sustain MVP elite level play. It also does not help him that Romans trend is usually being figured out in year 2 and completely exposed year 3. 

I bolded a specific part of your post for a reason. You characterized the offense as running 70 yards then throwing for 1yd TD. That’s just not true. 
 

by the way they may have come back from 27-10 last night if Andrews had caught the perfectly placed deep ball in the end zone. 
 

Edit: or are we only supposed to give Josh credit for drops?

Edited September 29, 2020 by Chemical

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

silently waiting for the defense by 

 

@C.Biscuit97

[Etsh]

Quote

 

Good analysis but you lost me at "Josh clearly has the better arm". Not sure you saw those backpedaling rainbow dimes Mahomes was dropping? Steve Young nailed the come from behind analysis on Lamar in the pre-game.

[whatdrought]

1 minute ago, TheElectricCompany said:

That's the point - you don't need to when you're talking about MVPs.

The notion that you have to go into deep statistical analysis and All 22 review around a MVP is insane.

He's a phenomenal player, and I look forward to seeing what his next few chapters look like.

You’re argument here is that an MVP award is a bona-fide guarantee that a player is elite and will continue to be?

[die hard bills fan]

I agree Jackson has been over-hyped  but take into consideration the coaches and offenses they play in.

Reid is >>>Roman.  Mahomes is great but he also had wide open receivers to throw to last night and more talented players to work with.

How would Jackson do if he played for the Chiefs?  I don't think he an elite passer but I don't think you need to be to be in a winning system. 

 

[TheElectricCompany]

2 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

You’re argument here is that an MVP award is a bona-fide guarantee that a player is elite and will continue to be?

 

Yep - look at the MVP list from the past 30 years...the floor is Rich Gannon (and he won it at 37)

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

Ravens are simply not built to put up 34 points. If their defense gets abused by a KC like juggernaut, They are toast. Blame Lamar or whomever, but that’s how the team is built. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[TigerJ]

I've been quiet on Lamar Jackson, but I was never unhappy that the Bills passed him over for Josh Allen.  As a QB, Jackson has a narrow and specialized skill set, and I did not think he could broaden it dramatically.  I feel a little differently about Murray.  I think he's fairly smart and a better passer than Jackson.  His major shortcoming his lack of length, a literal SHORTcoming if you will.  He's playing in kind of a unique offense (for the NFL) but I think his skill set is broader than what Lamar Jackson possesses.  How that plays out long term, I have no idea but he's a good match for what Kingsbury wants to do at Arizona.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, NewEra said:

You’re one of my favorite posters @Shaw66.

 

I think this take is a little shortsighted.

 

Compare LJs WRs to Josh’s.  You can’t.  Hollywood Brown is his best WR.  He would be our 3rd or possibly 4th best WR imo.  He isn’t that good.  He has zero catch radius.  Snead?  Bum.  Boykin?  Bum.  Duvernay is their best WR imo and he’s nothing special at this point.  Andrews is a very good TE.  He doesn’t make up for the lack of any good WRs.

 

my main problem with this post is the fact that your title says he’s done. His era is over.  Year 3.....as a QB....and his era is over.  Can’t get behind the notion that he can’t improve.  
 

I don’t really understand why Kyler murray is even mentioned in the thread.  He has a cannon and can make all the throws.  Just because he electric running the ball doesn’t mean he can’t throw.  He can and he will.  Mentioning him in this post just makes me more nervous about facing him this season.  I think he’s a much more natural thrower of the football than LJ

 

I commend this post to the board as by far, and I mean by FAR, the best post in this thread (and I would add that Andrews had his worst game as a pro last night).

Edited September 29, 2020 by GunnerBill

[mjt328]

It's premature to count out Lamar Jackson.  We are talking about ONE GAME against the defending Super Bowl champions.

At the same time, I can understand the skepticism from his critics.

 

Jackson is a very unique talent, far unlike anyone else in the NFL.  To help him out, Baltimore has built a brilliant offensive scheme that perfectly matches Jackson's skills, and looks different than any other system in the league.  To this point, it's been extremely successful.  Most of the time it's been unstoppable.

 

Now... 100 years of NFL history tells us that coaches will eventually adapt to what Baltimore is doing.  Coordinators will study what Tennessee did in the playoffs last year, and what Kansas City did last night.  Teams in the NFC North will draft defensive talents to counter the Ravens lineup.  It may take another season or two, but at some point the NFL will absolutely find a solution to this attack.

 

What happens after that will depend on Jackson's continued development.  When teams figure out how to keep him inside the pocket, can he still make the necessary throws?  Now I don't think he needs to become a pure "pocket passer" to be successful.  There are lots of QBs who use their athleticism to extend plays outside the pocket.  Josh Allen is a perfect example.  But while Allen is proving he can succeed when defenses take away the run, we haven't quite seen that kind of response from Jackson yet.  

 

[Rc2catch]

1 minute ago, Chemical said:

I bolded a specific part of your post for a reason. You characterized the offense as running 70 yards then throwing for 1yd TD. That’s just not true. 
 

by the way they may have come back from 27-10 last night if Andrews had caught the perfectly placed deep ball in the end zone. 

21 of his 46 passing touchdowns have come within 10 yards of the goal line. So yes the trend is they generally work down the field running and then can throw it in within 10 yards. I would suggest going to read pro football references page on Lamar. Game log passing touchdowns for his career. 
You will see a giant portion of his passing touchdowns within 10 yards and with the score up big by Baltimore a lot of times last year. 
But once again this isn’t about if he can throw, or lead teams. It’s sustaining MVP level elite play. There was and is zero chance Baltimore and Lamar can maintain what they did last season.