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Shaw66

The End of the Lamar Jackson Era

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Its not the end of an era, but Lamar does need to be consistent throwing the ball to be successful long term. He had 35 yards at halftime. No chance to win a game if thats what you put up through the air

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3 hours ago, H2o said:

Yep, still a thing if you actually watch him play. I know I've watched him play and he has been very, VERY, fortunate at times. 

 

Its not a thing because the data shows that a QB is more likely to get hurt in the pocked than on the run. This includes in JA's case where the QB takes hits. Especially since the only times JA has ever been injured, he has been in the pocket.  

Edited by JoshAllenHasBigHands
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Awesome post.

 

Been saying this for 3 years. He's a RB playing QB. Eliminate the TE's and he's toast. He can't throw to the outside and he doesn't read defenses.

 

He's a flash in the pan. Long term what he's doing doesn't work. League is figuring him out fast and it's going to go downhill.

 

The real stars are Mahomes and Allen.

 

 

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Lamar is a talented player but he is not the type of qb that I think can carry a team once he gets paid and the talent around him decreases.

 

I think the media hyped him up a lot. It's funny listening to how the media reacts to the bad throws that Lamar and even Mahomes makes during a game compared to when Josh makes a bad throw

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16 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

35 yards passing at the end of the 1st half.  Yikes. 

In fairness to Lamar, he doesn't have the kind of weapons we have or KC has.  

Josh TD to Diggs Sunday was a Lamar type throw with that wrist flick. He didnt have time or the space to wind up so he just whipped that forearm.  Awesome.

 

 

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This was one of Shaw's points. Baltimore has built their offense around  Jackson's strengths rather than his weaknesses. It has worked out pretty well for them but it has limitations. If they tried to build an offense by giving him the weapons we have it wouldn't have the same results. Look at how we tried to give EJ weapons...Woods, Watkins, Goodwin. They didn't look so good with us but they're all having pretty good success now.

Edited by Steve O

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Totally agree with your assessment Shaw. Kept seeing all the graphics and stuff during the pregame show about how this Mahomes versus Jackson duel will be the marquee matchup for years to come. I have serious doubts about that for the same reasons you described. IMO, by the time the dust settles on the 2020 season it could very well be the Mahomes vs. Allen matchup everyone will be talking about. The upcoming Thursday Night game on October 15th could go a long way to the start of that thinking.

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1 minute ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Its not a think because the data shows that a QB is more likely to get hurt in the pocked than on the run. This includes in JA's case where the QB takes hits. Especially since the only times JA has ever been injured, he has been in the pocket.  

Uhhhh, NE last year? That definitely wasn't in the pocket. Run out of bounds. Slide. Every time I have seen him do it he gets the ole "atta boy Josh" from me. It saves punishment and it also keeps the defense from being able to strip the ball. Throwing the ball away when the opportunity presents itself also keeps him from taking those horrible sacks at times or hanging the ball up for grabs. He is doing better with both, but there are still times that make you hold your breath out there. 

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Lamar Jackson? Meh.

On another note, Buffalo Bills vs. Kansas City Chiefs is going to be a heck of a game

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12 minutes ago, Da webster guy said:

35 yards passing at the end of the 1st half.  Yikes.

In fairness to Lamar, he doesn't have the kind of weapons we have or KC has.  

Josh TD to Diggs Sunday was a Lamar type throw with that wrist flick. He didnt have time or the space to wind up so he just whipped that forearm.  Awesome.

 

 

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To be fair though - they have specifically chosen they players for their offense.  It is not that he doesn’t have weapons - the Ravens looked at Jackson’s strengths and brought people to enhance those strengths.  
 

Rather than go for speed and WR talent - they recognized that Jackson was good at motion and hitting big targets between the hashes - so they focused on TEs that could block and give him the targets he needs.

 

I look back to last year Buffalo versus Baltimore and I see a Baltimore team that could do next to nothing on offense, but the Bills offense was so out of sync - they could not capitalize and get the lead to put that pressure on the Ravens.

 

If the Bills used that same Defense with this years offense - it would have looked more like what the Chiefs did to the Ravens.

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12 minutes ago, H2o said:

Even with all of that, I still see Lamar and Josh as head and shoulders above the rest as the top 2 QB's from that draft class. They are definitely the two most exciting as well.  

I agree with you, but think about how wild that is.  If I told you in 2018, before the draft, than one of the five first-round QBs would be a total bust who appeared in only a handful of NFL games, we all would have assumed that Mr. Bust would have been either Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson, right?  Those two guys were the two rawest prospects by far out of that draft class.  But as it turned out those are the only two clear "hits" out of that class.  I'd say the jury's still out on Mayfield, Darnold is looking more like a "miss" with each passing week (playing for the Jets doesn't help), and we all know what happened to Wrong Josh.  

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3 minutes ago, H2o said:

Uhhhh, NE last year? That definitely wasn't in the pocket. Run out of bounds. Slide. Every time I have seen him do it he gets the ole "atta boy Josh" from me. It saves punishment and it also keeps the defense from being able to strip the ball. Throwing the ball away when the opportunity presents itself also keeps him from taking those horrible sacks at times or hanging the ball up for grabs. He is doing better with both, but there are still times that make you hold your breath out there. 

 

Oh yeah, that is true.  My bad. That said, its agree to disagree.  Josh's greatest asset, beside just his arm, is his ability to keep plays alive; his ability to run and get the extra yards; his ability to not be tackled. The risk is minimal, and playing to avoid it is antiquated. 

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I disagree that its the end of his era.   Too soon for that, given what he does against every team not named the Chiefs.    What I do agree with is that Roman's offensive scheme is a dead end.   

 

It's not flexible enough and can't come back from multi-point deficits, as the MNF team pointed out many times.   It's too focused on the TEs and the middle of the field, which KC took away last night.   It's a one-read, gun it-or-run it system, rather than the smorgasbord of options Mahones has at his disposal.   Maybe its designed that way due to Jackson's (in)ability to quickly process like Mahones.    But I'm not willing to make that call yet.

 

The other thing is that while Hollywood Brown is a great WR, he appears to be somewhat straight-linish and perhaps limited in the routes he excells at.   Hence, a predictable offense that wins through physicality rather than scheme.    

 

Harbaugh needs to tear it up and get some weapons to increase Jackson's options.   A RB like Edwards-Helaire would have been a perfect fit for that, IMO.   

 

Just as Josh has blossomed with more weapons, Jackson could too if the Ravens would get over their fixation with "power forward" football and go with what the NFL has become today...speed, creativity and having more weapons than the defense can account for...

 

 

 

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22 minutes ago, TheElectricCompany said:

Shaw - you come for the king, you better not miss.

 

Awesome!!  My favorite Wire quote, from Omar Little:

 

You Come At The King, You Best Not Miss - Roheblius

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What's funny is that there are opposition fans that feel the same exact way about Josh Allen.

 

Long way to go in the 2020 season.  

 

 

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22 minutes ago, Crayola64 said:

Agree with Jackson.  Disagree with Murray....he can actually throw the ball well

This.. murray can make any throw the league requires 

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I can agree Lamar was never sustaining an MVP level of play with their style. Let’s not forget they were killing teams last year and padding his stats like crazy. All the stat lovers immediately point out how many passing touchdowns he had yet fail to mention how many were from like 1 yard out which is obviously impossible to defend him. They run 70 yards down the field then play action from a yard out and he gets a passing touchdown. Still counts but skews this perception he’s a good passer. He’s not about to be run out of the league or anything but I think is MVP days might be numbered. Roman generally is ineffective after year 2. 
Kyler I’m not so sure of yet, he’s very limited as a passer because of his height. They have to move the pocket for him to see which puts him on the move virtually every play. I also can’t have too much faith in a quarterback who is a pro and still cannot take a snap from under center. Week 1, end of game... To take the knee he takes the snap from shotgun. I only know cause my nephew has him on fantasy football and was highly upset he lost 10 yards rushing on 2 kneel downs and sent me video of Kyler taking a knee from shotgun. Weird. 

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if you were in the GDT last night you would have seen how desperate Bills fans are to bury Lamar, and how happy they were when he didn’t connect with his receivers. Maybe it makes some people feel better for passing on him  Personally I think it’s transparent and pathetic. It’s borderline racist when he’s called a running back, but that label was never thrown around for Allen. 
 

He had a perfect deep pass that was dropped in the end zone by Andrews that cost me my fantasy game this week. 
 

18 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Its not the end of an era, but Lamar does need to be consistent throwing the ball to be successful long term. He had 35 yards at halftime. No chance to win a game if thats what you put up through the air

 

they were running the ball early. Then had a kickoff returned for a td. His passing was off in the first half but he also didn’t have many opportunities. 

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Imagine not only saying this but actually believing it.

 

Bills fans would lose their minds if Allen has a bad game and people start saying “See! I told you he wasn’t that good!”

 

One game isn’t the end all be all.

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3 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

Oh yeah, that is true.  My bad. That said, its agree to disagree.  Josh's greatest asset, beside just his arm, is his ability to keep plays alive; his ability to run and get the extra yards; his ability to not be tackled. The risk is minimal, and playing to avoid it is antiquated. 

I understand what you are getting at, and I do agree with you to an extent, but sometimes he is going to have to realize you can't make a play every time the ball is in your hands. Some times you just have to live to fight another down, especially in the playoffs because that's when the stakes are the highest. He has been fantastic at bailing himself out thus far by making big play after big play, but it's also a testament to the guys we have in place around him stepping up as well. I've been all in on Allen since I first saw him step onto the field, saw the presence he had out there, and the energy he brought to this team as a whole. His growth that we have all witnessed at the QB position has been nothing short of amazing. Now it's just the little things that can put him right beside Mahomes in that convo for being the best QB in the league imo. 

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