YoloinOhio Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Let’s sign Clowney 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 So do the Jets get a bunch of cap back from CJ Mosley's bonus then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, SCBills said: Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? That is my thinking too. If I am the Bills I want to eat what I can this year, rather than next year when I might be at a $175m cap number (ie. a $25m reduction). I get the base salary moving, but bonuses that are prorated and the money has already been paid.... I want to count them this year! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigdaddyinOrlando Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Might be best to save and carry over next with the cap likely much lower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, SCBills said: Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? 16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is my thinking too. If I am the Bills I want to eat what I can this year, rather than next year when I might be at a $175m cap number (ie. a $25m reduction). I get the base salary moving, but bonuses that are prorated and the money has already been paid.... I want to count them this year! It is done to allow teams to backfill those positions if need be. you’re probably looking at 1 year deals in that case. I’m not sure that this is an option. Those numbers come back onto your books the following year? Do we basically get Star’s cap space this year that we can roll to next year? Basically he will cost 1/2 if we roll it all forward? If so I like that strategy. 15 minutes ago, BigdaddyinOrlando said: Might be best to save and carry over next with the cap likely much lower. Edited August 4, 2020 by Kirby Jackson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 24 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is my thinking too. If I am the Bills I want to eat what I can this year, rather than next year when I might be at a $175m cap number (ie. a $25m reduction). I get the base salary moving, but bonuses that are prorated and the money has already been paid.... I want to count them this year! Can you still roll it over? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Just now, YoloinOhio said: Can you still roll it over? You can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 29 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: That is my thinking too. If I am the Bills I want to eat what I can this year, rather than next year when I might be at a $175m cap number (ie. a $25m reduction). I get the base salary moving, but bonuses that are prorated and the money has already been paid.... I want to count them this year! Not sure it matters much if many teams will use it as roll-over - May give some teams a bit more flexibility to sign guys this year if there are a lot of opt outs or injuries/COVID cases and you need to rebuild part of a roster. The pro-rated money to me makes sense to roll-over to balance out the contract and provides some protection to vet players. For example if a guy (maybe Mosley from the Jets) had a large prorated portion that you covered this year with him opted out - and then next year he is really only do a large salary - cutting him is easier. Now the team essentially pushes everything one year down the road - so it becomes more difficult to cut him. From the team’s perspective- yeah I rather get everything covered when I have the money, but with roll-over it has little impact on a well managed team. It could really bite a team that wants to go for it this year - with the drop next year, but I think most teams aren’t sure what the year will hold anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted August 4, 2020 Author Share Posted August 4, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirby Jackson Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 10 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnCoke11 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, aristocrat said: Let’s sign Clowney Lets not and say we did 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Suffering Fan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 Quote Now the team essentially pushes everything one year down the road - so it becomes more difficult to cut him. This is true, but it still helps us on next year's cap. Let's say a player makes $8M this year and $10M next year. By opting out, we don't have to pay the $8M this year and, if we don't spend it, we roll it over to next year. Next year we pay him the $8M and we use the cap roll over to fund it. It effectively gives us $10M more in cap space next year (if we don't spend as much to replace the player this year. The key to all this is the cap space rollover. In the above example, instead of using $18M in cap space over two years on that player, for 2020-21, we only spend $8M of our cap space. Of course, that maybe causes a problem in 2022 as the potential problem gets pushed down the road a year. With the danger of a lower cap next year, I'm okay with that. Quote All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. I agree with Kirby wholeheartedly on this. They will still get people, just like anyone, but they are less likely to get the bargains. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 43 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. 100%. Brady held that locker room together. He was the voice that went around spreading the ‘you know what is fun? Winning championships.’ Spending a ton of money doesn’t translate to wins. Picking players and finding the right character and attitude guys does. Belichick isn’t really a great drafter and his locker room can’t withstand the Michael Bennett’s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Rochesterfan said: Not sure it matters much if many teams will use it as roll-over - May give some teams a bit more flexibility to sign guys this year if there are a lot of opt outs or injuries/COVID cases and you need to rebuild part of a roster. The pro-rated money to me makes sense to roll-over to balance out the contract and provides some protection to vet players. For example if a guy (maybe Mosley from the Jets) had a large prorated portion that you covered this year with him opted out - and then next year he is really only do a large salary - cutting him is easier. Now the team essentially pushes everything one year down the road - so it becomes more difficult to cut him. From the team’s perspective- yeah I rather get everything covered when I have the money, but with roll-over it has little impact on a well managed team. It could really bite a team that wants to go for it this year - with the drop next year, but I think most teams aren’t sure what the year will hold anyway. Yes. I want cutting Star to be easier. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 8 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: 100%. Brady held that locker room together. He was the voice that went around spreading the ‘you know what is fun? Winning championships.’ Spending a ton of money doesn’t translate to wins. Picking players and finding the right character and attitude guys does. Belichick isn’t really a great drafter and his locker room can’t withstand the Michael Bennett’s. He has not been a great drafter throughout but he has had periods of great drafting. 2009 to 2016 they drafted as well as any team in the league. They didn't always hit their first round pick but when you are always drafting 28-32 that is harder. In that period they drafted: Patrick Chung, Sebastien Vollmer, Julian Edelman, Devin McCourty, Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski, Shane Vereen, Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Dont'a Hightower, Chandler Jones, Logan Ryan, Jamie Collins, James White, Malcolm Brown, Shaq Mason, Tre Flowers, Joe Thuney, Elandon Roberts, Ted Karras All of whom were part of Superbowl winning teams in the second Patriot dynasty except, obviously, Hernandez. Multiple pro bowlers and all pros there too and in addition they also drafted Jimmy Garoppolo and Jacoby Brissett in that period both of whom have proven to be starting level NFL quarterbacks. And that is without Malcolm Butler and David Andrews who were undrafted free agents Bill targeted and turned into stars. Their last few drafts have not been so good and their drafts in the mid 00s were poor too but in that 7 year period from 2009 they had remarkable success. That is how they managed to win another 3 Superbowls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. For sure. People went there on cheaper deals because you were all but guaranteed a run to the AFCCG at the worst. I think they will get less of that in the future. They need to start drafting well again. Because when the Patriots have won Superbowls it has generally been supported by good drafting. When they drafted poorly in the mid 00s it resulted in 3 years of no playoffs / early exits (I know one of those years was without Brady). Yes the Patriots have played free agency and the trade game well.... but their best periods have been supported by stacking good drafts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 And all of the sudden the Patriots have lots of cap space. Funny how things work out for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. Maybe not as much without Brady & Co, but they are just one season removed from another championship. I fully expect Belichick to put a competent team on the field. He was a very good coach before anyone ever heard of Tom Brady, and I'm betting he's eager to remind people of that. Like you said though, they aren't getting those insane discounts anymore. Edited August 4, 2020 by BullBuchanan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. They'll have to (over)pay like everyone else now. And still need to find a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 4 hours ago, GunnerBill said: That is my thinking too. If I am the Bills I want to eat what I can this year, rather than next year when I might be at a $175m cap number (ie. a $25m reduction). I get the base salary moving, but bonuses that are prorated and the money has already been paid.... I want to count them this year! The impact to next year's cap is very underappreciated. I hear that there will be significant pain from TV contracts coming next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 14 minutes ago, GG said: The impact to next year's cap is very underappreciated. I hear that there will be significant pain from TV contracts coming next year. They have set a floor at $175m though so the cap will not reduce any further than that in 2021. They are going to try and spread the pain over multiple years. But there is pain coming, no doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 6 hours ago, SCBills said: Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? yeah exactly, people on the radio were making it sound like free money.....the Bills are in a good cap position next year, pushing Star's money til next year is not advantageous.....but it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 9 hours ago, SCBills said: Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? It essentially means the contract is taking the year off. Yes, the prorated signing bonus will count next year, and through the remainder of the contract, but he'll also presumably be playing, unless he retires or the Bills release/trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 sign tre 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
first_and_ten Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 11 hours ago, aristocrat said: Let’s sign Clowney This might be a viable move, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 You know.....maybe Clowney on a one year wouldnt be so bad? Or the TE Nojuku? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 21 hours ago, SCBills said: Doesn’t this just make the cap issues next year for teams with opt-outs that much more difficult? ...or am I interpreting this wrong? Yeah. But if they don't spend it this year, they can roll it over. But yes, any money saved this year goes against next year's cap, and next year's cap may take a major dive depending how all that is handled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 21 hours ago, aristocrat said: Let’s sign Clowney Not happening. We have just under $25 mil. In cap space. There should be a -$35 mil. Swing to $175 mil. Next year. We already paid for Butler, Addison, Jefferson, have H. Phillips under contract. We also have to extend some if not all the following, Dawkins, Milano, White if we don’t exercise the 5th year option. Besides, he’s not even close to worth what he wants. As Polian said the other day, he’s a situational player, not an every down and not worth a huge contract. We just purged those kind of contracts with Jettisoning Watkins, Dareus, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machine gun kelly Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 18 hours ago, MJS said: And all of the sudden the Patriots have lots of cap space. Funny how things work out for them... You guys know it’s not free $ and when the cap drops from $210 mil. To $175 mil. Next year if they don’t cut them they have to take this cap space and put it into next year. The Pats will be even more cap strapped next year. Right now they are up to $34 mil., but after the settlements and signing of Newton, they had $8 mil. If these opt outs are not cut next year, that’s $26 mil. On the hook in 2021. Even if they cut all of them, the dead $ will still be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 8:53 AM, YoloinOhio said: first team I thought of when I saw this. Anyone feel Goddell tossing a wink at Bobby ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ethan in Cleveland Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 On 8/4/2020 at 6:07 AM, Kirby Jackson said: Maybe it’s wishful thinking on my part but I think that the Pats will have a hard time recruiting moving forward. Brady and Gronk kind of set the tone that “it’s not fun.” Collins and Van Noy left as well. The opt outs this year furthered that message. People went because they had a chance to win a title every year. I think that shine has worn off some too. Obviously, if they pay guys they will come. All that I’m saying is that the days of the Pats getting guys for $.10 on the dollar are over. They are in great cap shape but they aren’t the Mecca of destinations anymore. Patriots built their dynasty on signing middle of the road free agents. If BB stays that wont change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 6 hours ago, machine gun kelly said: You guys know it’s not free $ and when the cap drops from $210 mil. To $175 mil. Next year if they don’t cut them they have to take this cap space and put it into next year. The Pats will be even more cap strapped next year. Right now they are up to $34 mil., but after the settlements and signing of Newton, they had $8 mil. If these opt outs are not cut next year, that’s $26 mil. On the hook in 2021. Even if they cut all of them, the dead $ will still be there. Until they change the rules again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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