Black Lives Matter Messaging at "The Stadium"

[Bill from NYC]

14 minutes ago, uticaclub said:

What about all the white people that lost family members to black people? Does that not matter?

It does matter and it will get worse, whereas many major cities are now promoting lawlessness.

In NYS, our thing is to empty out jails and prisons.

[plenzmd1]

Man,  I had a great idea. We could pin this thread so all political talk could go here..and people would be free to state their opinions, all opinions are welcome, and we give the mods like @Hapless Bills Fan and @Chandler#81  and @SDSa break. Even better, we could maybe make it a subforum like "off the wall"..Even better, we could make it its own forum..like PPP..wait, whats that?

 

Listen, i get emotional on here about political things as well, and this virus has made me even more cranky. I put it on TSW board, and look back and know it takes away from the TSW focus, which is and should be the onn field Bills.  PPP is the place this discussion  belongs, and it  is actually a great place state your ideas, just have to be able have them questioned and be ready to defend them. By the look of this thread, most of you do so very well. The vast majority of people there are good, just block the folks who are only there troll( both sides have them BTW).

 

 

[SectionC3]

15 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He said that Buffalo was the worst that he experienced. I’m not surprised though. As evidenced by this thread, it isn’t something that people are very accepting to. Add that to drunk and aggressive Bills fans and it’s a recipe for an ugly situation.

I fully expect the majority, to all, of the players and coaches to kneel. This place is going to EXPLODE. 

 

It will be interesting that there probably will be no fans in attendance (I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing).  And it's sad that people here can't or won't listen to each other. It's especially sad that we can't recognize that the kneeling was conceived by a veteran as a respectful way of saying something to the effect of "I love this country, but not everything that it stands for, and I'd like it to be better."  It's actually an expression of love for America and a hope for improvement and continued pursuit of the quest to perfect the union. 

 

How does this relate to football?  If we have an acerbic reaction in the stadium, or an acerbic reaction in the community, it will be hard to convince African-American players to want to come here.  If, however, we show that community support and a willingness to listen to some very fair and reasonable points, it will make this a more attractive market to players from that community.  

 

Bottom line?  If you love the Bills, then you have to show love to their employees and the people who risk limb and perhaps life to win the games about which we deeply care. 

[uticaclub]

14 minutes ago, wAcKy ZeBrA said:

 

Of course it matters.

 

Do you ignore your mother on Father's Day?

As much as a ignore my father on Mother’s Day. Also, by BLM standards Father‘s Day is racist and I am racist because my father had a part in raising me

[ProcessAccepted]

14 hours ago, whatdrought said:

 

Totally spot on with this. For instance:

 

Here’s a video of this random black lady accusing 2/3 of the BLM founders of being Marxists. 
 

https://nypost.com/2020/06/25/blm-co-founder-describes-herself-as-trained-marxist/

 

I would suggest finding sources of information that are less biased. Breitbart and the Heritage Foundation are not exactly neutral in matters like this.

[Kirby Jackson]

18 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

This issue is above sports and worrying about whether or not players want to come here.... Asking Bills fans who don't want to bend the knee to a marxist movement to "suck it up" just so their team can sign players is just so way off base, honestly...

He never asked the players to “bend the knee to a Marxist movement!!” He asked people to respect the players and coaches regardless of if their viewpoint is the same or different from yours. It’s honestly a pretty simple ask. Don’t be an a-hole isn’t exactly a high bar.

[Kirby Jackson]

3 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

I was not at all talking about players, sheesh.

 

I any event, maybe we should all #walkaway from this thread.

He was!! You talked about Bills fans bending a knee to a Marxist organization. His ask was we don’t hate players/coaches if they take a knee. Basically his ask is that we respect people’s right to express themselves whether we agree or not. Again, it’s a pretty simple ask. 

[Protocal69]

18 hours ago, StHustle said:

I'm DONE with this team. With The Stadium. With the NFL. How dare they post messaging that says black lives matter. What about the other entitled races who hate anything they dont feel included in? Its boils my blood anytime I hear the phrase "Black Lives Matter" HOW DARE THEY LEAVE US OUT ?

 

-The overtly covert racist

 

 

You lying. Shut up

[gobilz]

Grand master jay will be honorary captain

[Kirby Jackson]

7 minutes ago, Gene1973 said:

 

Staying silent is bending the knee. This is a free society. Next somene will be calling for screening at the gates to only allow BLM supporters into the stadium...

No offense but this is incredibly hypocritical. You are saying that I have to express myself but I won’t accept other people expressing theirs. We are absolutely a free society. That’s the entire point. You can express your opinion and they can express yours. 

[Royale with Cheese]

Damn....Herman Cain died.

[Brueggs]

When George Soros provides the seed money for your start up organization, you can be sure the purpose of that organization is not to help anyone other than global elitists.    

 

When that organization grows and starts funneling money to the DNC, the true nature of the organization is being revealed.  

 

There is an organic element of this movement made up of great people, with great intentions, but the organized faction of this movement is made up of something entirely different.  They are using good people to carry out an agenda that has nothing to do with equality or the greater good of society.

[bmur66]

You will not find me in any stadium that has BLM billboards and I am not racist so don't go there. It really sucks that the Bills are finally where we have waited many years for them to be. Fans don't deserve this. We are not a racist country. This has all been created by very powerful players that want to destroy our country and President. I feel bad for football players that just want to play football. I feel bad for owners who are misguided and think they are doing the right thing. I feel bad for the people that are too naïve to realize they are being used. So screw all the major sports. They are not important and they are about to find that out the hard way. There is much more at stake than a game

 

And yes, I know this is not an airport and I don't need to announce my departure

Edited July 30, 2020 by bmur66

[Buffalo716]

2 hours ago, Mango said:

That’s actually not true, and hasn’t been true for decades. Socioeconomic mobility has always been more difficult compared to other wealthy post-industrialized nations. 
 

This is why we say the pledge of allegiance in grade school, so that those kids grow up to be adults and just say and believe things about their country that aren’t true. In 2020, looks like it’s still working. 
 

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/02_economic_mobility_sawhill_ch3.pdf

 

 

Almost every single civilized Nation on this planet has a national anthem they recite since children

 

Almost Every developed nation. We aren't the only country to have a national anthem that recites since they were children

 

And okay I got your point USA isn't number one for that technically. What is it  technically?

 

Top 20?  Almost 200 counties in the world ..  nobody can be on top for everything and that's still top 10%

 

That isn't bad at all... Top 10% in this crazy world.. then there are tons of other factors why America is an awesome country

Edited July 30, 2020 by Buffalo716

[whatdrought]

53 minutes ago, ProcessAccepted said:

 

I would suggest finding sources of information that are less biased. Breitbart and the Heritage Foundation are not exactly neutral in matters like this.

Criticizing the source without engaging the content or pointing to why it’s wrong is a classic deflection of those without an argument. 
 

two problems:

 

1- are you arguing that their source of the video of the woman talking is biased in a slanted way?

 

2- your link has the same information as what I’ve just posted. 

[White Linen]

1 hour ago, eball said:

 

Just the opposite, Bill -- my mind has been opened wide to a lot of things I conveniently have never had to address in my privileged white life.

 

IMO, this is part of the issue.  Even with good intentions, it's narcissistic to feel that only recently have white people been enlightened to changing.   

[Dragoon]

If this thread proves anything it’s that the extreme left has taken over everything and only they can say what they want without being shouted down. I’m quite sick of the ‘you agree with me or you’re a racist’ nonsense. 
 

This thread is not relevant to the 2020 season or the Bills. This is why many of us feel this has no place in football. Football is fun....or it was....till this. Now it’s just another political battleground. 

[DCOrange]

21 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

When George Soros provides the seed money for your start up organization, you can be sure the purpose of that organization is not to help anyone other than global elitists.    

 

When that organization grows and starts funneling money to the DNC, the true nature of the organization is being revealed.  

 

There is an organic element of this movement made up of great people, with great intentions, but the organized faction of this movement is made up of something entirely different.  They are using good people to carry out an agenda that has nothing to do with equality or the greater good of society.

I can't speak to the Soros part, but the bolded flat out isn't true (at least not yet).

 

People like Candace Owens have been pushing that theory based on the fact that BLM uses a donations portal called ActBlue to collect donations. But she and many others have misconstrued what that actually means. When someone donates to the correct BLM group (there's another "organization" that's been created with a very similar name to try to get accidental donations), the donation passes through the ActBlue portal and is then distributed to BLM. ActBlue does the same thing for most Democratic political campaigns. If you donate to the Joe Biden campaign for example, the money goes to ActBlue and is then distributed to the Biden campaign. But people like Owens have been trying to lead people astray by saying that instead of BLM donations going through ActBlue to BLM, ActBlue is just taking that money and sending it to the Biden campaign or the DNC instead and that flat out isn't true. BLM, to this point, also has not donated any of the money they've received to the Biden campaign or DNC (though it wouldn't surprise me if that happens at some point since their goals at least partially align).

 

And people like Owens know that they're peddling lies because there's literally an identical setup for Republican campaigns and right-leaning organizations called WinRed that does the same exact thing. If you donate to the Trump campaign, the money goes to WinRed and is then distributed to the Trump campaign. Likewise if you donate to a random candidate running for Congress in Utah or something like that.

 

There's plenty of reasons to use to argue that you shouldn't donate to BLM, but the idea that donations to them simply get sent to Biden or the DNC is (at least for now), total BS.

[Mark Vader]

15 hours ago, klos63 said:

antifa is not an organization. There is no structure, no leadership.... it's an ideological movement.  Individuals who think a certain belief, kinda like Bills fans, we are not an organization but we follow a movement, our team.

They sure know how to get together in large numbers and cause disruption in various places.

 

That's quite impressive for people who are not organized.

[Mango]

30 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Almost every single civilized Nation on this planet has a national anthem they recite since children

 

Almost Every developed nation. We aren't the only country to have a national anthem that recites since they were children

 

And okay I got your point USA isn't number one for that technically. What is it  technically?

 

Top 20?  Almost 200 counties in the world ..  nobody can be on top for everything and that's still top 10%

 

That isn't bad at all... Top 10% in this crazy world.. then there are tons of other factors why America is an awesome country

That park was admittedly snarky. 
 

I was refuting you’re claim that you had a better chance of socioeconomic mobility in America than “any other place on earth.” Taken quite the step back, eh? 
 

Most resources qualify 25-30 countries as first world. Your claim of 20th isn’t so great amongst isn’t so great amongst its peers, is it? 
 

Since this is a football board, let’s make it anecdotal to football. 
 

You: K’Lavon Chaisson was the first pick in the NFL draft. 
Me: Actually he wasn’t, here are the order of draft picks. 
You: There were what, 255 draft picks in the 2020 draft? 20 is still really good. 
Me: Sure, but that’s not what you said, nor what the conversation was about. 
 

Or maybe you should just call Auburn National Champs. I get they weren’t number 1, but they were top 10% and that’s pretty good! 
 

 

[Mark Vader]

14 hours ago, BullBuchanan said:

Completely false, but don't let my evidence disrupt your fantasy. America punishes and cripples the poor.

Are you saying that it is impossible for people who work hard in this country to prosper in any way?

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

Are you saying that it is impossible for people who work hard in this country to prosper in any way?

Nope. You can take what i wrote literally - no subtext required.

57 minutes ago, bmur66 said:

You will not find me in any stadium that has BLM billboards and I am not racist so don't go there. It really sucks that the Bills are finally where we have waited many years for them to be. Fans don't deserve this. We are not a racist country. This has all been created by very powerful players that want to destroy our country and President. I feel bad for players that just want to play football. I feel bad for owners who are misguided and think they are doing the right thing. I feel bad for the people that are too naïve to realize they are being used. So screw all the major sports. They are not important and they are about to find that out the hard way. There is much more at stake than a game

 

And yes, I know this is not an airport and I don't need to announce my departure

I bet they aren't. You guys have pushed this narrative before. You were wrong then and wrong now. Sports are more popular than ever.

[Mark Vader]

1 minute ago, BullBuchanan said:

Nope. You can take what i wrote literally - no subtext required.

Very well.

 

Are you willing to apply subtext?

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

Very well.

 

Are you willing to apply subtext?

Sure. America ranks 27th when it comes to a poor person's ability to improve their economic standing:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/

Right behind Lithuania.

Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Mark Vader]

14 hours ago, Logic said:

3.) Antifa is not an organization. There is no leader, there are no meetings, there are no creeds. "Antifa" is a blanket term used to refer to people of leftist ideology who are against fascism and far-right hate groups. Applying a catch-all name to anyone who opposes fascism or far-right hate groups -- who, as mentioned above, have been responsible for 329 deaths in the past 25 years -- is nothing more than modern day McCarthyism. A convenient boogeyman used to scare people. Ya know, kind of like "migrant caravan". Oh, and calling the anti-fascists fascist is too stupid to really even spend much breath on, so I won't. 

 

If they are not an organization, how exactly do these people continue to converge in multiple areas in large numbers?

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

If they are not an organization, how exactly do these people continue to converge in multiple areas in large numbers?

Do they? How many? How often?

[Mark Vader]

2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

Sure. America ranks 27th when it comes to a poor person's ability to improve their economic standing:
https://www.visualcapitalist.com/ranked-the-social-mobility-of-82-countries/

Right behind Lithuania.

Alright.

 

Do you believe that this country wants improve on that, or that it doesn't?

[BullBuchanan]

1 minute ago, Mark Vader said:

Alright.

 

Do you believe that this country wants improve on that, or that it doesn't?

I believe that people that share the same beliefs that I have want to. I believe that everyone that supports the current system does not. Why? The policies being put in place by republicans and the corporate democrats actively and passively subvert social mobility.

[Mark Vader]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

Do they? How many? How often?

I've encountered my share of these people whom have shown up in Berkeley and other parts of the Bay Area in large groups.

 

I'm not saying that there are millions of them, but it's not just 5 people either.

 

I've never personally interacted with any one of them, but I get the impression that they are not all that interested in talking to people who have differing viewpoints.

 

That is just my guess. I've only seen them in person a couple of times, but I do know that they have been around parts of California on several occasions.

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I've encountered my share of these people whom have shown up in Berkeley and other parts of the Bay Area in large groups.

 

I'm not saying that there are millions of them, but it's not just 5 people either.

 

I've never personally interacted with any one of them, but I get the impression that they are not all that interested in talking to people who have differing viewpoints.

 

That is just my guess. I've only seen them in person a couple of times, but I do know that they have been around parts of California on several occasions.

That sounds like pretty weak evidence to support a claim of continuing convergence in large numbers.

How would you get that impression having never spoken to any of them?
Describing Antifa is like describing 2A Supporters or Patriots. People of like mind gather to support a cause they care about.

Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Mark Vader]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

That sounds like pretty weak evidence to support a claim of continuing convergence in large numbers.

I have no motive for lying.

 

If you don't want to believe me, fine.

 

I've seen them with my own eyes, and they are not exactly a very cheery bunch.

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I have no motive for lying.

 

If you don't want to believe me, fine.

 

I've seen them with my own eyes, and they are not exactly a very cheery bunch.

I'm not accusing you of lying. You asked me for evidence of my statements and I supplied actual data. I asked you for evidence of your statements and you said that you had seen some examples.

Do you think that's fair? Do you think there's a small chance you might have some unintentional bias that makes you perceive things in a way that can't be supported by data?

Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Mark Vader]

Just now, BullBuchanan said:

I'm not accusing you of lying. You asked me for evidence of my statements and I supplied actual data. I asked you for evidence of your statements and you said that you had seen some examples.

Do you think that's fair?

I have seen examples.

 

I'm not a broadcast news journalist or television reporter, so I have no documentation or videos to show anything.

 

I've just seen how some people with Antifa act and they were not pleasant. No one confronted me personally, because I wanted to avoid that.

 

There were people who did get sprayed with pepper spray from the Antifa crowd and they also were throwing rocks at people.

 

Once that started up, I got the Hell out of there. It's not worth bodily harm.

 

All I have is my personal experience to share.

[BullBuchanan]

7 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

I have seen examples.

 

I'm not a broadcast news journalist or television reporter, so I have no documentation or videos to show anything.

 

I've just seen how some people with Antifa act and they were not pleasant. No one confronted me personally, because I wanted to avoid that.

 

There were people who did get sprayed with pepper spray from the Antifa crowd and they also were throwing rocks at people.

 

Once that started up, I got the Hell out of there. It's not worth bodily harm.

 

All I have is my personal experience to share.

If I said that to you, would it change your mind?

Do you think the actions of those people you witnessed represent everyone who is anti-fascist?
Do you think it's impossible that some of the people you thought were Antifa supporters were actually some of the documented white supremacist groups attempting to legitimize them?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/technology/antifa-local-disinformation.html

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police
https://factcheck.afp.com/far-right-group-poses-antifa-during-george-floyd-protests

Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Brueggs]

55 minutes ago, DCOrange said:

I can't speak to the Soros part, but the bolded flat out isn't true (at least not yet).

 

People like Candace Owens have been pushing that theory based on the fact that BLM uses a donations portal called ActBlue to collect donations. But she and many others have misconstrued what that actually means. When someone donates to the correct BLM group (there's another "organization" that's been created with a very similar name to try to get accidental donations), the donation passes through the ActBlue portal and is then distributed to BLM. ActBlue does the same thing for most Democratic political campaigns. If you donate to the Joe Biden campaign for example, the money goes to ActBlue and is then distributed to the Biden campaign. But people like Owens have been trying to lead people astray by saying that instead of BLM donations going through ActBlue to BLM, ActBlue is just taking that money and sending it to the Biden campaign or the DNC instead and that flat out isn't true. BLM, to this point, also has not donated any of the money they've received to the Biden campaign or DNC (though it wouldn't surprise me if that happens at some point since their goals at least partially align).

 

And people like Owens know that they're peddling lies because there's literally an identical setup for Republican campaigns and right-leaning organizations called WinRed that does the same exact thing. If you donate to the Trump campaign, the money goes to WinRed and is then distributed to the Trump campaign. Likewise if you donate to a random candidate running for Congress in Utah or something like that.

 

There's plenty of reasons to use to argue that you shouldn't donate to BLM, but the idea that donations to them simply get sent to Biden or the DNC is (at least for now), total BS.

Fair enough.  I know there is a sea of misinformation to sift through and the truth is buried deep when it comes to the kind of money involved.  ActBlue is a Democrat Super PAC though, and people are questioning where the money is going.

The irony is, while fighting institutional/system racism, why run money through the Dems?  The institutions/systems where people gather information and ideas, are the Media, Academia, and Hollywood, all of which are monopolized by leftist elites.  They literally control these institutions.  

[BullBuchanan]

3 minutes ago, Brueggs said:

Fair enough.  I know there is a sea of misinformation to sift through and the truth is buried deep when it comes to the kind of money involved.  ActBlue is a Democrat Super PAC though, and people are questioning where the money is going.

The irony is, while fighting institutional/system racism, why run money through the Dems?  The institutions/systems where people gather information and ideas, are the Media, Academia, and Hollywood, all of which are monopolized by leftist elites.  They literally control these institutions.  

Who does? Who's a "leftist elite"?

Edited July 30, 2020 by BullBuchanan

[Golden Goat]

14 hours ago, NoHuddleKelly12 said:

Made a conscious decision not to dip my toe in that hot lava—am I missing out? 

PPP in 2020.

[Mark Vader]

14 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

If I said that to you, would it change your mind? Would it change my mind? Maybe, maybe not. I would take it all under consideration and accept what was told to me as being truthful.

Do you think the actions of those people you witnessed represent everyone who is anti-fascist? No, I do not. It would be unfair to lump every single person into the same category due to the actions of a few idiots. The same thing goes for people on all political sides. Not everyone who supports Bernie Sanders is a communist, they just think that his ideals are something that could work for the better of the country. 

Not everyone who voted for Donald Trump is a white supremacist, they just voted for him because they saw what he wanted for the country is the same things that they wanted.

Do you think it's impossible that some of the people you thought were Antifa supporters were actually some of the documented white supremacist groups attempting to legitimize them? That is a possibility. Having said that, I do believe that there are some people in Antifa who are not part of a white supremacist group and only want to cause trouble and chaos in the country for whatever reasons they may have.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/02/tech/antifa-fake-twitter-account/index.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/22/technology/antifa-local-disinformation.html

https://www.wsls.com/news/virginia/2020/07/27/police-richmond-riots-instigated-by-white-supremacists-disguised-as-black-lives-matter/
https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police

 

Edited July 30, 2020 by Mark Vader

[BullBuchanan]

2 minutes ago, Mark Vader said:

 

I think it's important for each of us to challenge the things we believe, the things we accept as facts. We often get new information and when we consider that new information, we can sometimes find that things aren't what we used to think they were.

[Mark Vader]

5 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

I think it's important for each of us to challenge the things we believe, the things we accept as facts. We often get new information and when we consider that new information, we can sometimes find that things aren't what we used to think they were.

I agree.

 

Everyone should do that. We should also be more open to discussing matters that concern us that we tend to disagree on, but take it as an opportunity to learn from each other, instead of scorning each other.