Bills Mount Rushmore

[VirginiaMike]

I know we did a Mt. Rushmore of Bills and Sabres coaches and now Fox has done that with Bills players.  I did not see another post on this so here goes.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/buffalo-bills-all-time-mount-rushmore-4-best-players-in-franchise-history

 

They picked Jim Kelly, Smith, OJ Simpson, & Andre Reed.  All are great players, but once again like when he was coming out of college, Thurman Thomas was forgotten and disrespected.  I would replace Reed with Thomas.  I know the obvious choice to toss should be Simpson, but not for his performance on the field.  For me, I can't disregard his on field performance, which was standard setting.

[Gugny]

Jim Kelly

Bruce Smith

Thurman Thomas

Kyle Williams

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2020 by Gugny

[Royale with Cheese]

No Marshawn Lynch???

[machine gun kelly]

I agree with the OP it’s a toss up between Andre and Thurmon.  Maybe Fox was trying to not place two RB’s on there.  I know OJ’s off field behavior is reprehensible, but he is the only RB in history who made it 2003 yards in 14 games.  I tried to look up Dickerson and AP, but I could swear they didn’t get there by week 14.

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, machine gun kelly said:

I agree with the OP it’s a toss up between Andre and Thurmon.  Maybe Fox was trying to not place two RB’s on there.  I know OJ’s off field behavior is reprehensible, but he is the only RB in history who made it 2003 yards in 14 games.  I tried to look up Dickerson and AP, but I could swear they didn’t get there by week 14.

 

Not even close.  I think they were both around 1,800 after 14 games.   To me this is the definitive stat on how great the '73 season was for OJ (and his '75 season which rarely gets mentioned).  

 

All time YPG in a season:

1    O.J. Simpson+ (26)    143.1    1973    BUF
2    Jim Brown+ (27)    133.1    1963    CLE
3    Walter Payton+ (23)    132.3    1977    CHI
4    Eric Dickerson+ (24)    131.6    1984    RAM
5    Adrian Peterson (27)    131.1    2012    MIN
6    O.J. Simpson+ (28)    129.8    1975    BUF
7    Jamal Lewis (24)    129.1    2003    BAL

[MJS]

This again?

[machine gun kelly]

1 hour ago, KD in CA said:

 

Not even close.  I think they were both around 1,800 after 14 games.   To me this is the definitive stat on how great the '73 season was for OJ (and his '75 season which rarely gets mentioned).  

 

All time YPG in a season:

1    O.J. Simpson+ (26)    143.1    1973    BUF
2    Jim Brown+ (27)    133.1    1963    CLE
3    Walter Payton+ (23)    132.3    1977    CHI
4    Eric Dickerson+ (24)    131.6    1984    RAM
5    Adrian Peterson (27)    131.1    2012    MIN
6    O.J. Simpson+ (28)    129.8    1975    BUF
7    Jamal Lewis (24)    129.1    2003    BAL

KD, thanks for doing this research.  I could do the avg. yards per game, but wasn’t sure of the 16 game players, did they have their yards front loaded and could any of them made it in 14 games, and then tailed off the last game or two.  I tried really hard to find by week 14 how many yards actually did each of the six get to in the books, but I guess the avg. is good enough.  Sucks he had to ruin such great football memories with atrocious behavior later in his life.

[DE Bills Fan]

OJ

Jim Kelly

Bruce Smith

Thurmanator/Andre (tie)

[klos63]

Billy Shaw

OJ

Thurman

Bruce

[Bferra13]

Only people age 60+ can answer a subjective question like this. I'm not close. Im bowing out. Bruce and Jimbo are obvious though.

[Augie]

8 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

No Marshawn Lynch???

 

He lost the Canadian vote, I’m afraid. 

 

 

Bruce has to be #1 for me, and Thurman and Kelly have to be included. If I include one “old timer”, it’s Butch Byrd who seems often overlooked for some reason. 

4 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

KD, thanks for doing this research.  I could do the avg. yards per game, but wasn’t sure of the 16 game players, did they have their yards front loaded and could any of them made it in 14 games, and then tailed off the last game or two.  I tried really hard to find by week 14 how many yards actually did each of the six get to in the books, but I guess the avg. is good enough.  Sucks he had to ruin such great football memories with atrocious behavior later in his life.

 

I was on the fence until he stole those cookies in prison! 

[JaCrispy]

6 hours ago, MJS said:

This again?

so true!

[Buftex]

Bruce, OJ, Jimbo and Thurman.   

 

You could make legitimate arguments that Smith and Simpson were the greatest at their position, all time.  You can't leave either of them off, if you are talking Buffalo Bills.

Kelly is the epitome of the Buffalo Bills, and possibly, the most important player in franchise history. You can't leave him off.

 

I understand why they picked Reed.  If I had to include a WR, he is the guy.  But if it comes down between he and Thomas,  Thurman was the motor all those years. He belongs.

[Mcdermott]

3 hours ago, Bferra13 said:

Only people age 60+ can answer a subjective question like this. I'm not close. Im bowing out. Bruce and Jimbo are obvious though.

If you went with best players ever it would be

 

Billy Shaw

Tom Sestak

Bruce Smith

OJ

 

but you have to include Jim Kelly as probably most important.

i would go

 

Kelly

Sestak

Smith

OJ

[CA OC Bills Fan]

9 hours ago, machine gun kelly said:

KD, thanks for doing this research.  I could do the avg. yards per game, but wasn’t sure of the 16 game players, did they have their yards front loaded and could any of them made it in 14 games, and then tailed off the last game or two.  I tried really hard to find by week 14 how many yards actually did each of the six get to in the books, but I guess the avg. is good enough.  Sucks he had to ruin such great football memories with atrocious behavior later in his life.

No MGK, none would have been close. See below for the first 14 games of the season for all 2000 yard/season rushers (plus Jim Brown's season that OJ surpassed). In fact, if you eliminate the worst two games any of them had that got there in a 16 game season, only Dickerson and Sanders would have hit 2000. For Dickerson, he'd have 2015 yards (worst two games were 38 and 49 yards in weeks 8 and 14 respectively). Sanders' worst two games were weeks 1 and 2, he actually had exactly 2000 yards in the last 14 games of the 1997 season. Also note that OJ is the only one who surpassed Jim Brown in the 1st 14 games of a season.

 

Player	Year	Rushing Yds 1st 14 Games	16 Game Rushing Yards
Eric Dickerson	1984	1792	2105
Barry Sanders	1997	1731	2053
Terrell Davis	1998	1801	2008
Jamal Lewis	2003	1747	2066
Chris Johnson	2009	1730	2006
Adrian Peterson	2012	1812	2097
OJ Simpson	1973	2003	NA
Jim Brown	1963	1863	NA

 

 

To the original question, I was too young to remember Sestak or Shaw, but I'd pick OJ, Kelly, Bruce, and Thurman. Although he was great, I don't see Reed as nearly as important to the Bills of the early '90s as Thurman was.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

Jim Kelly, Bruce Smith, Thurman Thomas, Ted Washington

 

 

The future 4

 

Allen, Knox, Phillips, White

 

 

[peterlaw]

Jim, Bruce, Thurman & Marv.

[Victory Formation]

I think when it’s all said and done and we reflect back on this 10, 20 years from now Josh Allen and TreDavious White will be on everyone’s Mount Rushmore.

[McBean]

Chris Kelsay

Keith Ellison

Leodis McKelvin

Mike Jasper

[oldmanfan]

Shaw

OJ

Bruce

Jimbo

[ProcessYaDigg]

Kelly

Kyle Williams

Lorax

Thurman/Bruce

 

When it comes to a Bills Mount Rushmore list, I went with a group who contributed on and off the field.  You wanna look at model players all around and I think these guys fit that mold.  They loved being a Bill and being a part of the community.

[Mcdermott]

7 hours ago, McBean said:

Chris Kelsay

Keith Ellison

Leodis McKelvin

Mike Jasper

if you are going with Jasper, it has to be

 

Mike Jasper

Da’rick Rogers

Christian Wade

Alex VanPelt

[TwistofFate]

On 5/31/2020 at 10:52 AM, VirginiaMike said:

I know we did a Mt. Rushmore of Bills and Sabres coaches and now Fox has done that with Bills players.  I did not see another post on this so here goes.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/buffalo-bills-all-time-mount-rushmore-4-best-players-in-franchise-history

 

They picked Jim Kelly, Smith, OJ Simpson, & Andre Reed.  All are great players, but once again like when he was coming out of college, Thurman Thomas was forgotten and disrespected.  I would replace Reed with Thomas.  I know the obvious choice to toss should be Simpson, but not for his performance on the field.  For me, I can't disregard his on field performance, which was standard setting.

They are the best in franchise history at their positions, and hall of famers to boot. 

 

Im fine with it. 

 

As much as I love Thurman,  OJ was better. 

 

Reed is the 17th most productive Wr in NFL history.  No way he gets removed. 

[Greg S]

Maybe this should be another thread but what about a Mount Flushmore.

 

worst draft - J.P Losman - the Bills traded their 2005 1st Rd pick as part of a package to get back in the 1st Rd of 2004 and select JP

worst FA signings -  Marv was a great coach but remember his stint as GM. How about the Langston Walker 5 year 25 million and Derrick Dockery 7 year 49 million contracts Levy gave out.

worst HC - Hank Bullough or Kay Stephenson. back to back 2-14 seasons in 84 and 85. What a nightmare.

worst GM- I am going with the Marv Levy experiment here as the above signings prove.

 

I am sure their are better choices and the older Bills fans can point back to examples in the 60's. My choices are from what I remember as complete disasters.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

If the criteria is most important players for the Bills then it is Bruce, OJ, Kelly, and Thomas.

If you want most talented and productive compared to peers, then it is Bruce, OJ, Reed, and Thomas. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

46 minutes ago, Greg S said:

Maybe this should be another thread but what about a Mount Flushmore.

 

worst draft - J.P Losman - the Bills traded their 2005 1st Rd pick as part of a package to get back in the 1st Rd of 2004 and select JP

worst FA signings -  Marv was a great coach but remember his stint as GM. How about the Langston Walker 5 year 25 million and Derrick Dockery 7 year 49 million contracts Levy gave out.

worst HC - Hank Bullough or Kay Stephenson. back to back 2-14 seasons in 84 and 85. What a nightmare.

worst GM- I am going with the Marv Levy experiment here as the above signings prove.

 

I am sure their are better choices and the older Bills fans can point back to examples in the 60's. My choices are from what I remember as complete disasters.

Don’t forget Trent Murphy, 3 yrs at $22.5 M in the worst FA signings ever.

[Greg S]

Just now, Ethan in Portland said:

Don’t forget Trent Murphy, 3 yrs at $22.5 M in the worst FA signings ever.

 

Good point but their is so much to choose from with the Bills that there will be a lot of different answers.

[BearNorth]

Tom Sestak belongs. 

 

There are only six defensive linemen who played in the 1960s, who were all-league selections in three-or-more seasons – Bob Lilly, Merlin Olsen, Gino Marchetti, Deacon Jones, Willie Davis and Tom Sestak.  Of the six, Sestak is the only one that is not a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

 

Career cut short by injuries, but so were Gayle Sayers and Bo Jackson among others.

 

 

[Yoho]

How about the 4 we let get away - based on what they did after leaving the Bills

 

Daryl Lamonica

Marshawn Lynch

Jason Peters

Stephon Gilmore

 

 

[Mcdermott]

3 hours ago, Yoho said:

How about the 4 we let get away - based on what they did after leaving the Bills

 

Daryl Lamonica

Marshawn Lynch

Jason Peters

Stephon Gilmore

 

 

Ahmad Rashad or Ron McDole would replace Lynch on my list.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

9 hours ago, Yoho said:

How about the 4 we let get away - based on what they did after leaving the Bills

 

Daryl Lamonica

Marshawn Lynch

Jason Peters

Stephon Gilmore

 

 

Trading Peters is the worst personnel decision in Bills history.  He will be a first ballot HOF player that the Bills developed.  He should be one of the great BIlls of all time.  This was not a first round draft pick they missed on.  This is a guy that they coached for five years. He was an elite LT and only 26 years old.  

Arguably one of the worst trades ever by any franchise.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

6 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Since he was signed for multiple more years the Bills should have made him sit out or play.

Bills bending over backwards due to slimy actions of his agent including refusing to negotiate for other players whose contracts were up for renewal is reason why agents started treating Buffalo as easy to get what they wanted.

It was one of the worst trades because of THIS not because they would not give him a new contract.

Hijack thread in progress...

Bills should have amended/extended his contract and paid him like the elite LT he was.  Sometimes the other party has all the leverage in a negotiation and you just have to avoid making a bad decision.  Trading one of the 6 or 7 best LT's in NFL history because you can't deal with an agent is weak.  

3 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

When you say we I am assuming you are saying you were assisting in it for other teams.

 

Aren't you forgetting Gary Anderson who tanked preseason after being drafted by Buffalo and immediately went to Pittsburgh to play for 13 years?

Excellent call out.  At least with the other 4 the Bills got some high level play for many years before losing them.

[longtimebillsfan]

18 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Trading Peters is the worst personnel decision in Bills history.  He will be a first ballot HOF player that the Bills developed.  He should be one of the great BIlls of all time.  This was not a first round draft pick they missed on.  This is a guy that they coached for five years. He was an elite LT and only 26 years old.  

Arguably one of the worst trades ever by any franchise.

don't forget he started out as a TE and the BillS switched him to LT.

Edited June 3, 2020 by longtimebillsfan

[CA OC Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Limeaid said:

 

Since he was signed for multiple more years the Bills should have made him sit out or play.

Bills bending over backwards due to slimy actions of his agent including refusing to negotiate for other players whose contracts were up for renewal is reason why agents started treating Buffalo as easy to get what they wanted.

It was one of the worst trades because of THIS not because they would not give him a new contract.

At the time, I agreed with you Limeaid, I thought that we already renegotiated his contract (twice I think) and he can't just keep asking for more. However, the reality is, the entire situation started with Levy signing Derrick Dockery to a seven year $49 million contract ($18 million signing bonus) and Langston Walker to a $25 million five year contract ($10 million signing bonus). When he did that, all of talk radio said they obviously now had to pay Peters. But, their attitude was he had already renegotiated and they weren't going to do that. If we didn't overpay those other two, I'm not so sure Peters would have held out, or at least not the year that he did. And, hopefully at some point they would have paid him what he deserved.