Senior Bowl executive director Jim Nagy on Jake Fromm

[Mr. WEO]

Meh.  I'll wait to hear the assessment about Fromm from the former head scout for the NFLPA Collegiate Bowl......

[MJS]

18 hours ago, Cal said:

You clowns still pushing Fromm lol. He is a bum. Was a 5th round pick for a reason. Go root for another team, this is Allen's team. Like is said before, don't understand the hate for Allen from 90% of you from the get go.

Fans can say good things about Fromm. That doesn't automatically mean they are trashing Allen. Most talk about Fromm's ability to be a good backup or traded for a higher draft pick. There's only like one post that suggests he could compete with Allen in the future and it was a very hypothetical post.

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

You keep saying that if you can do it against SEC DBs that it will translate to the pro game, yet the fact is most of the QBs who succeeded in college it doesn't translate. Even the ones that had the most success in the SEC all-time.

 

Here are the Top 10 all-time SEC quarterbacks ranked by career passing yards.

Player	School	Passing Yards	Years
1. Aaron Murray	Georgia	13,166	2010-13
2. David Greene	Georgia	11,528	2001-04
3. Chris Leak	Florida	11,213	2003-06
4. Peyton Manning	Tennessee	11,201	1994-97
5. Eric Zeier	Georgia	11,153	1991-94
6. Danny Wuerffel	Florida	10,875	1993-96
7. Jared Lorenzen	Kentucky	10,354	2000-03
8. Eli Manning	Ole Miss	10,119	2000-03
9. Casey Clausen	Tennessee	9,707	2000-03
10. Bo Wallace	Ole Miss	9,534	2012-14

 

And here are the Top 10 all-time SEC quarterbacks ranked by career touchdown passes.

Player	School	Passing Yards	Years
1. Aaron Murray	Georgia	121	2010-13
2. Danny Wuerffel	Florida	114	1993-96
3. Peyton Manning	Tennessee	89	1994-97
T4. Chris Leak	Florida	88	2003-06
T4. Tim Tebow	Florida	88	2006-09
6. Eli Manning	Ole Miss	81	2000-03
7. Andre Woodson	Kentucky	79	2004-07
8. Jared Lorenzen	Kentucky	78	2000-03
T9. Rex Grossman	Florida	77	2000-02
T9. AJ McCarron	Alabama	77	2010-13

 

As you can see the two lists above are riddled with QBs that did nothing or next to nothing in the pro game.

Two hall of famers and a couple of starters turned back ups.   Not to shabby imo. 

[John from Riverside]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:04 PM, ScottLaw said:

I’m ok with the pick so long as IF Allen regresses this season they aren’t “all in” with Allen and Fromm going into the 2021 season and bring in a heavy investment at QB via FA or the draft prior to that season..... hopefully it’s a non issue and Allen continues to improve. 

 

I have an issue trusting these guys with the QB position considering their history.

What in the world would make you think josh Allen is going to regress

[Doc]

1 minute ago, John from Riverside said:

What in the world would make you think josh Allen is going to regress

 

Seriously? 

[John from Riverside]

Just now, Doc said:

 

Seriously? 

Yes I am being serious

 

explain your stance

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, TwistofFate said:

Two hall of famers and a couple of starters turned back ups.   Not to shabby imo. 

 

Not even close to what one would think the way you were talking. I see one sure fire HOFer, one most likely HOFer and most of the rest did little to nothing or next to nothing in the NFL. After the 2 Mannings more than half the list never threw a pass in an NFL regular season game and another one who threw exactly 8 passes in his career.

 

3 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yes I am being serious

 

explain your stance

 

I would like to hear this also. Why would one think Josh would regressed when A.) He has more weapons than last year including a #1 WR now. B.) Josh improved in nearly every statistical category from year 1 to year 2.

 

[Doc]

27 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

Yes I am being serious

 

explain your stance

 

Here's a hint: it's not my stance.

[Jim_Kelly_Holcomb]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:17 PM, TwistofFate said:

 

:56 second mark

 

 

 

And on the play before at 0:29, Fromm threw a very underthrown pass that should have been intercepted.

[Ga boy]

10 hours ago, Paup 1995MVP said:

Even first round QB's have red flags.  There is no certainty of success from any draft pick.  These are young men that are going up to a higher level of competition.  It is certainly not easy to succeed as an NFL QB.  But agreed taking Jake Fromm in the 5th round, the downside is minimal.  The kid is a winner.  He is a gamer.  He competes hard, is smart and can make plays.  Does he have amazing physical tools?  Not to the level of some QB prospects.  But that's not a necessity to being a solid NFL QB.  Joe Montana did not have a cannon for an arm, the fastest 40, or was 6'5 250 pounds.  But he was an amazing QB in an era where the defense was allowed to beat the snot out of the QB w impunity.  (look up the hit he took from Jim Burt in the Meadowlands in the playoff game against the Giants in 86 or 87.  My goodness)   Physical tools are great but understanding the nuances of the game and using the mental side to always have the edge is what separates the champions of every sport.  A quick example:  The best starting pitcher of the modern baseball era (since 1980's) was.....Greg Maddux.  From a physical perspective he was maybe 5'11 and 180 pounds.  The most normal looking guy ever.  Guy won over 350 games!!  He barely ever threw above 88-89 mph.  But he knew how to pitch better then anyone, and his ball was always moving.  Anyone who watched him knows what I mean.  He took his physical ability and combined that with superior knowledge of how to pitch, and an amazing grit and competitiveness.  Loved watching him.   Not saying that Fromm is that.  But you all should get the point.  He will make the Bills better at the least because he will be much better then Matt Barkley.  Anything further then that remains to be seen.  But for anyone to say he is trash or a scrub (my kids included) are sorely mistaken.

Maddox was tough.  I see similarities with Staubach and Brees.

14 hours ago, BillsNutHawaii said:

 

I hope you’re wrong, but I think by the end of the 2021 season you could be right about Fromm.  I don’t hate JA, I think he’s a truly great guy, really nice too.  But if we are looking for the nicest guy to be the QB, then I’ll nominate my neighbor. And it’s not that Fromm is / will be great .... I’m just not sure JA will consistently be able to avoid injury and I’m not sure he will ever be able to translate the game to the satisfaction of the HC.... hope I’m wrong. 

Remember every NFL QB is one hit away, and Josh gets hit more than most.  I believe Fromm could step in and keep us on the playoff quest ?.  Could we say same for Barkley??  Go Bills!!

 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

Here's a hint: it's not my stance.

Gotcha......thanks

[krf139]

One way or another, Fromm will be our starting QB at the start of the 2021 season 

[Buffalo716]

20 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

I posted the exact throw Nagy was talking about on the first page. 

 

18-19 yard out from the opposite hash mark on a rope and on time. 

 

He made it pretty easily and that is about as tough as it gets. 

there are a million different variables between that throw in college and the NFL

 

First the Duke is not a college football. As silly as it sounds a lot of pros struggle with the change from a college ball to the Duke. The ball is bigger and the laces are  extruded vinyl compared to polyurethane for the college ball which gives it superior grip

 

Also the speed of the game is vastly different. That WR was college open and beat his guy by 3 yards . You don't get those windows in the NFL

 

Also the route was run from the slot which also gave the WR a lot of room to the sidelines vs a weaker cb. Even a average NFL CB has great recovery and running deep outs from the slot will get you burned in the league. That same throw to a boundary reciever is 100x harder because the space is condensed and the trajectory different

 

It was definitely a solid throw , Fromms arm is not terrible but it didn't look the same this past season. It looked much more alive his first 2 years

[John from Riverside]

The bottom line on Fromm is this

 

He was drafted to be the backup to Josh.....if he can come in and win like 3 games a year then this draft pick was a total win

[Penfield45]

On 5/1/2020 at 8:59 PM, Cal said:

You clowns still pushing Fromm lol. He is a bum. Was a 5th round pick for a reason. Go root for another team, this is Allen's team. Like is said before, don't understand the hate for Allen from 90% of you from the get go.

 

Allen has done nothing so far to claim this team as "his" 

 

he has a LONG way to go 

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

The bottom line on Fromm is this

 

He was drafted to be the backup to Josh.....if he can come in and win like 3 games a year then this draft pick was a total win

I hope to God we don't have to use our backup quarterback three times a year

 

Josh will have an awfully short career if that happens

[John from Riverside]

12 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

 

Allen has done nothing so far to claim this team as "his" 

 

he has a LONG way to go 

While I see no reason to bash Fromm you are DEAD wrong on this.....this is in fact Allen's team....and every vet in that locker room would tell you that.

[ILBillsfan]

On 5/1/2020 at 6:07 PM, DJB said:

Again I posted this in the Fromm thread

 

 

 

 

A beautiful pass from his own 14 to the opposing 40 right in the bucket hitting the WR in stride. 

the outside the numbers out pass is the true test of arm strength.  If it's not there see Nathan Peterman

[John from Riverside]

15 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I hope to God we don't have to use our backup quarterback three times a year

 

Josh will have an awfully short career if that happens

Its an insurance policy.  You dont want it to happen but starting QBs do in fact get dinged up.  This is def still Josh Allen's team.

 

In a way that is what makes Fromm so intriguing......your season might not be over if we take a minor injury.

2 minutes ago, ILBillsfan said:

the outside the numbers out pass is the true test of arm strength.  If it's not there see Nathan Peterman

The question with Fromm....which will get answered quick is he smart enough to NOT get goaded into that pass that Peterman couldnt lay off of......Peterman looked good until teams figured out they could goad him into throwing that completely unforgivable pass.

[billspro]

On 5/1/2020 at 4:00 PM, Logic said:

I like that Nagy said he feels that Fromm's lack of arm strength has been overstated. Nagy also mentioned him being in the mould of a Case Keenum or Andy Dalton. To me, if that's what Fromm ends up being, it's obviously a great pick. Whether that means Allen gets an awesome backup for four years, or they can flip him for a pick in the future, or he gets a shot to compete if Allen flames out, it's a good pick for Buffalo regardless.

It’s never a bad idea to take a swing at a QB in the 5th. Especially a prospect with Fromm’s resume. Maybe we strike gold. Having two good QBs is never a bad thing. 

[Richard Noggin]

13 hours ago, wvbillsfan said:

Every time I’ve seen this guy he looks like he’s throwing with all arm. No real torque or rotation in his lower half to generate velocity 

not a qb guru at all but something doesn’t look right when he throws. 

Interesting analysis of his actual throwing motion; we get so little of this. Remember Fitz winding up and finishing all sideways like he was hurling a javelin?

 

I'll bet the more "quiet," arm-based, pure sporting-L motion helps with consistency/accuracy. Fewer moving parts. But, alas, with less leg drive and core torque, maybe it also robs velocity. 

[TwistofFate]

4 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

Not even close to what one would think the way you were talking. I see one sure fire HOFer, one most likely HOFer and most of the rest did little to nothing or next to nothing in the NFL. After the 2 Mannings more than half the list never threw a pass in an NFL regular season game and another one who threw exactly 8 passes in his career.

 

 

I would like to hear this also. Why would one think Josh would regressed when A.) He has more weapons than last year including a #1 WR now. B.) Josh improved in nearly every statistical category from year 1 to year 2.

 

Because his improvement in some areas, doesn't outweigh the in depth statiscs in other areas.  Plus he's going to be facing much better teams this season.

 

In case you are forgetting, Allen was one of the worst passers in the NFL last year.  He was ranked 27th in the league in completions over 10 yards.  He was worst in the league in completions from a clean pocket. He was one of the worst in the league in ball placement. 

 

Now im not making this stuff up.  These are in depth metrics from Sports Info Solutions, which is one of the best pro sports analytical groups out there. 

 

Yes Allen improved, but he was absolutely horrific in the key metrics franchise Qbs statistcally excel at. 

 

Does this mean he can't improve?  No.   It means that at this juncture in his career, and knowing his college history, (not really impressive) it is highly unlikely he turns into a franchise Qb. 

 

I posted a great article in another thread that went more in depth into the metrics. 

 

I hoped Allen would succeed and end this Qb drought.  But I'd be willing to bet anything Allen will look terrible this year.  By terrible I mean, more of the same.  Wild throws, missing wide open recievers, glued to his first to second reads, terrible foot work and drops, holding the ball too long, and bad ball placement on his receivers. 

 

I could be wrong and he could shock the world, but the data says we have a Mitch Trubisky on our hands. 

 

Enter Fromm.   A proven winning quarterback and three-year starter in the toughest division in college football. A quarterback who has thrown more passes against top defenses then any other quarterback in the draft....

 

"Here's the percentage of pass attempts by each top QB in the draft that came vs. top-50 defenses by SP+:"

1. Jake Fromm, 77.92%
2. Tua Tagovailoa, 60.71%
3. Joe Burrow, 57.87%
4. Justin Herbert, 44.39%
5. Jacob Eason, 35.56%
6. Jordan Love, 30.02%

— Jim Sannes (@JimSannes) January 18, 2020

 

A kid who has beaten out every other quarterback he has gone up against.  A kid who is compared to offensive coordinators or to have a future in coaching, an all around very heady football IQ individual.  A kid who perfectly fits our West Coast type of offense and will pick it up and learn it immediately.  In all reality a 2nd to 3rd round draft pick that we stole in the fifth round and is a phenomenal prospect if Allen falters.

[Passepartout]

Yeah but I worry about Fromm who forgo the senior year to go to the NFL draft. As people that do that and not play their senior year tend to flop in the NFL. Just saying!

[Lieutenant Aldo Raine]

15 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Because his improvement in some areas, doesn't outweigh the in depth statiscs in other areas.  Plus he's going to be facing much better teams this season.

 

In case you are forgetting, Allen was one of the worst passers in the NFL last year.  He was ranked 27th in the league in completions over 10 yards.  He was worst in the league in completions from a clean pocket. He was one of the worst in the league in ball placement. 

 

Now im not making this stuff up.  These are in depth metrics from Sports Info Solutions, which is one of the best pro sports analytical groups out there. 

 

Yes Allen improved, but he was absolutely horrific in the key metrics franchise Qbs statistcally excel at. 

 

Does this mean he can't improve?  No.   It means that at this juncture in his career, and knowing his college history, (not really impressive) it is highly unlikely he turns into a franchise Qb. 

 

I posted a great article in another thread that went more in depth into the metrics. 

 

I hoped Allen would succeed and end this Qb drought.  But I'd be willing to bet anything Allen will look terrible this year.  By terrible I mean, more of the same.  Wild throws, missing wide open recievers, glued to his first to second reads, terrible foot work and drops, holding the ball too long, and bad ball placement on his receivers. 

 

I could be wrong and he could shock the world, but the data says we have a Mitch Trubisky on our hands. 

 

Enter Fromm.   A proven winning quarterback and three-year starter in the toughest division in college football. A quarterback who has thrown more passes against top defenses then any other quarterback in the draft....

 

"Here's the percentage of pass attempts by each top QB in the draft that came vs. top-50 defenses by SP+:"

1. Jake Fromm, 77.92%
2. Tua Tagovailoa, 60.71%
3. Joe Burrow, 57.87%
4. Justin Herbert, 44.39%
5. Jacob Eason, 35.56%
6. Jordan Love, 30.02%

— Jim Sannes (@JimSannes) January 18, 2020

 

A kid who has beaten out every other quarterback he has gone up against.  A kid who is compared to offensive coordinators or to have a future in coaching, an all around very heady football IQ individual.  A kid who perfectly fits our West Coast type of offense and will pick it up and learn it immediately.  In all reality a 2nd to 3rd round draft pick that we stole in the fifth round and is a phenomenal prospect if Allen falters.

Why doesn’t Fromm just start then?  

[Augie]

18 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Because his improvement in some areas, doesn't outweigh the in depth statiscs in other areas.  Plus he's going to be facing much better teams this season.

 

In case you are forgetting, Allen was one of the worst passers in the NFL last year.  He was ranked 27th in the league in completions over 10 yards.  He was worst in the league in completions from a clean pocket. He was one of the worst in the league in ball placement. 

 

Now im not making this stuff up.  These are in depth metrics from Sports Info Solutions, which is one of the best pro sports analytical groups out there. 

 

Yes Allen improved, but he was absolutely horrific in the key metrics franchise Qbs statistcally excel at. 

 

Does this mean he can't improve?  No.   It means that at this juncture in his career, and knowing his college history, (not really impressive) it is highly unlikely he turns into a franchise Qb. 

 

I posted a great article in another thread that went more in depth into the metrics. 

 

I hoped Allen would succeed and end this Qb drought.  But I'd be willing to bet anything Allen will look terrible this year.  By terrible I mean, more of the same.  Wild throws, missing wide open recievers, glued to his first to second reads, terrible foot work and drops, holding the ball too long, and bad ball placement on his receivers. 

 

I could be wrong and he could shock the world, but the data says we have a Mitch Trubisky on our hands. 

 

Enter Fromm.   A proven winning quarterback and three-year starter in the toughest division in college football. A quarterback who has thrown more passes against top defenses then any other quarterback in the draft....

 

"Here's the percentage of pass attempts by each top QB in the draft that came vs. top-50 defenses by SP+:"

1. Jake Fromm, 77.92%
2. Tua Tagovailoa, 60.71%
3. Joe Burrow, 57.87%
4. Justin Herbert, 44.39%
5. Jacob Eason, 35.56%
6. Jordan Love, 30.02%

— Jim Sannes (@JimSannes) January 18, 2020

 

A kid who has beaten out every other quarterback he has gone up against.  A kid who is compared to offensive coordinators or to have a future in coaching, an all around very heady football IQ individual.  A kid who perfectly fits our West Coast type of offense and will pick it up and learn it immediately.  In all reality a 2nd to 3rd round draft pick that we stole in the fifth round and is a phenomenal prospect if Allen falters.

 

I like your enthusiasm.

 

I lack your conviction. 

 

My son, his UGA fiancé who knows her football, and our UGA dinner guests tonight (with takeout from our favorite little Italian joint we are trying to keep alive), have far less conviction than you do. They watch every game, and attend most home games. 

 

I hope he can be a solid backup for a decade plus. I’m not sure he has the arm to be any more than that. 

[TwistofFate]

2 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Why doesn’t Fromm just start then?  

Because Allen is our entrenched starter.  He is a first round pick we traded up for and are invested heavily in. 

 

The only way we will see Fromm is if he blows Barkley out of the water, moves to #2, and Allen gets hurt.   Other than that, I don't expect to see Fromm at all this year. 

 

When I would expect to see him is next year if, and I personally believe so, Allen fails to produce franchise type numbers which ultimately cost us games. 

 

Our schedule is not play time this year.   185 yard games with multiple fumbles and 58-59% completion rate is not going to cut it. 

 

They've given him everything....stability, personnel, coaching, now he has to go produce and show he's a franchise guy.  No way they pick up his 5th year option if he doesn't produce big time this year. 

Edited May 3, 2020 by TwistofFate

[billsfan1959]

3 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Because his improvement in some areas, doesn't outweigh the in depth statiscs in other areas.  Plus he's going to be facing much better teams this season.

 

In case you are forgetting, Allen was one of the worst passers in the NFL last year.  He was ranked 27th in the league in completions over 10 yards.  He was worst in the league in completions from a clean pocket. He was one of the worst in the league in ball placement. 

 

Now im not making this stuff up.  These are in depth metrics from Sports Info Solutions, which is one of the best pro sports analytical groups out there. 

 

Yes Allen improved, but he was absolutely horrific in the key metrics franchise Qbs statistcally excel at. 

 

Does this mean he can't improve?  No.   It means that at this juncture in his career, and knowing his college history, (not really impressive) it is highly unlikely he turns into a franchise Qb. 

 

I posted a great article in another thread that went more in depth into the metrics. 

 

I hoped Allen would succeed and end this Qb drought.  But I'd be willing to bet anything Allen will look terrible this year.  By terrible I mean, more of the same.  Wild throws, missing wide open recievers, glued to his first to second reads, terrible foot work and drops, holding the ball too long, and bad ball placement on his receivers. 

 

I could be wrong and he could shock the world, but the data says we have a Mitch Trubisky on our hands. 

 

Enter Fromm.   A proven winning quarterback and three-year starter in the toughest division in college football. A quarterback who has thrown more passes against top defenses then any other quarterback in the draft....

 

"Here's the percentage of pass attempts by each top QB in the draft that came vs. top-50 defenses by SP+:"

1. Jake Fromm, 77.92%
2. Tua Tagovailoa, 60.71%
3. Joe Burrow, 57.87%
4. Justin Herbert, 44.39%
5. Jacob Eason, 35.56%
6. Jordan Love, 30.02%

— Jim Sannes (@JimSannes) January 18, 2020

 

A kid who has beaten out every other quarterback he has gone up against.  A kid who is compared to offensive coordinators or to have a future in coaching, an all around very heady football IQ individual.  A kid who perfectly fits our West Coast type of offense and will pick it up and learn it immediately.  In all reality a 2nd to 3rd round draft pick that we stole in the fifth round and is a phenomenal prospect if Allen falters.

 

49 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Because Allen is our entrenched starter.  He is a first round pick we traded up for and are invested heavily in. 

 

The only way we will see Fromm is if he blows Barkley out of the water, moves to #2, and Allen gets hurt.   Other than that, I don't expect to see Fromm at all this year. 

 

When I would expect to see him is next year if, and I personally believe so, Allen fails to produce franchise type numbers which ultimately cost us games. 

 

Our schedule is not play time this year.   185 yard games with multiple fumbles and 58-59% completion rate is not going to cut it. 

 

They've given him everything....stability, personnel, coaching, now he has to go produce and show he's a franchise guy.  No way they pick up his 5th year option if he doesn't produce big time this year. 

 

Already got your Allen hate in mid season form, I see. While we all know you would love to see Fromm, or anyone for that matter, at QB for the Bills rather than Allen, it isn't going to happen. 

 

Wasn't it you who was telling us all before the Jets game last year how Barkley was going to show us all what a real QB looked like?

 

Now you are on to Fromm....

[Hardhatharry]

Fromm can be trade bait in a few years.

[TwistofFate]

5 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

Already got your Allen hate in mid season form, I see. While we all know you would love to see Fromm, or anyone for that matter, at QB for the Bills rather than Allen, it isn't going to happen. 

 

Wasn't it you who was telling us all before the Jets game last year how Barkley was going to show us all what a real QB looked like?

 

Now you are on to Fromm....

Zero hate.   Facts and data.  Get your facts straight.

 

Every piece of hard, in depth analytics on franchise Qbs says Allen is a bust. 

 

Im just happy that if that data is accurate we have another prospect waiting in the wings. 

 

Chicago wasted no time moving on from Trubisky.   They declined his 5th year, brought in a solid vet, and will have a competition this year.   I see a similar fate here next year with Allen and Fromm. 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, TwistofFate said:

Zero hate.   Facts and data.  Get your facts straight.

 

Every piece of hard, in depth analytics on franchise Qbs says Allen is a bust. 

 

Im just happy that if that data is accurate we have another prospect waiting in the wings. 

 

Chicago wasted no time moving on from Trubisky.   They declined his 5th year, brought in a solid vet, and will have a competition this year.   I see a similar fate here next year with Allen and Fromm. 

 

Yeah, no hate at all....

 

[C.Biscuit97]

20 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

You keep saying that if you can do it against SEC DBs that it will translate to the pro game, yet the fact is most of the QBs who succeeded in college it doesn't translate. Even the ones that had the most success in the SEC all-time.

 

Here are the Top 10 all-time SEC quarterbacks ranked by career passing yards.

Player	School	Passing Yards	Years
1. Aaron Murray	Georgia	13,166	2010-13
2. David Greene	Georgia	11,528	2001-04
3. Chris Leak	Florida	11,213	2003-06
4. Peyton Manning	Tennessee	11,201	1994-97
5. Eric Zeier	Georgia	11,153	1991-94
6. Danny Wuerffel	Florida	10,875	1993-96
7. Jared Lorenzen	Kentucky	10,354	2000-03
8. Eli Manning	Ole Miss	10,119	2000-03
9. Casey Clausen	Tennessee	9,707	2000-03
10. Bo Wallace	Ole Miss	9,534	2012-14

 

And here are the Top 10 all-time SEC quarterbacks ranked by career touchdown passes.

Player	School	Passing Yards	Years
1. Aaron Murray	Georgia	121	2010-13
2. Danny Wuerffel	Florida	114	1993-96
3. Peyton Manning	Tennessee	89	1994-97
T4. Chris Leak	Florida	88	2003-06
T4. Tim Tebow	Florida	88	2006-09
6. Eli Manning	Ole Miss	81	2000-03
7. Andre Woodson	Kentucky	79	2004-07
8. Jared Lorenzen	Kentucky	78	2000-03
T9. Rex Grossman	Florida	77	2000-02
T9. AJ McCarron	Alabama	77	2010-13

 

As you can see the two lists above are riddled with QBs that did nothing or next to nothing in the pro game.

I guess the only upside to this list is if Newton played more than one year at Auburn, he would be up there but it’s a pretty awful list.   I think part of the issue is these guys play with blue chippers at every position, so when you go to the nfl, the talent even out.  Tua is going to have a worse receiving group in the nfl than he did in college.

2 hours ago, Hardhatharry said:

Fromm can be trade bait in a few years.

I think he’s more likely to get cut in a few years but I hope you’re right.  Hopefully he doesn’t have to play much and get overhyped like other backup QBs who then become starters who suck.  Call it the Kevin Kolb effect.

[Big Gun]

18 minutes ago, TwistofFate said:

Zero hate.   Facts and data.  Get your facts straight.

 

Every piece of hard, in depth analytics on franchise Qbs says Allen is a bust. 

 

Im just happy that if that data is accurate we have another prospect waiting in the wings. 

 

Chicago wasted no time moving on from Trubisky.   They declined his 5th year, brought in a solid vet, and will have a competition this year.   I see a similar fate here next year with Allen and Fromm. 

Get lost troll!

[Don Otreply]

10 hours ago, Lieutenant Aldo Raine said:

Why doesn’t Fromm just start then?  

Because imo it doesn’t work that way. This year is Josh’s stepping stone year, he absolutely needs to get better across the full spectrum of QB metrics to be “the one” going forward.

 

   Fromm is here as a potential BU this year, likely PS and a potential BU in year two.   This of course is supposition, but Beane ain’t no fool, and is far more ruthless than many think, he didn’t bring Fromm in for the hell of it.
 

    I will say that Allen has two more years, this year and next year unopposed, then if he hasn’t worked out the QB competition will start the following preseason.
 

   Beane already has plans in the works for the possibility of Josh not working out, it’s his job to do so.  There is  No “hate” here,  just guys chatting up potential outcomes. Some just have better and worse ways of expressing themselves. 

 

Go Bills!!!

Edited May 3, 2020 by Don Otreply

[DCofNC]

I see a lot of Brady in college in him.  He beats you with intelligence and average everything else.  Drew Henson was the golden boy in that era that never could take it away from Brady.  From took out 2 other higher rated, more athletic QBs for his job.  He has pretty good awareness, an accurate ball and average NFL arm strength.  If you look around, the all time greats we have watched, Brady, Breese, Manning, all pretty much innthe same mold, average arms, accurate, beat you with their head.   I am certainly not saying he will be anywhere near them, but I do think he can eventually start in the right system.   Last year he got happy feet and wasn't as good as the past because of it, if that sticks with him, hes done before he starts, but if he gets back to confidence in the pocket, you could have anything from a good backup to a Kirk Cousins level starter ( and in a highly unlikely scenario, something better).  This is the type of thing you can dream of in a 5th round pick.  If he flops, oh well.  At least it wasn't  high pick.

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

12 hours ago, TwistofFate said:

Because his improvement in some areas, doesn't outweigh the in depth statiscs in other areas.  Plus he's going to be facing much better teams this season.

 

In case you are forgetting, Allen was one of the worst passers in the NFL last year.  He was ranked 27th in the league in completions over 10 yards.  He was worst in the league in completions from a clean pocket. He was one of the worst in the league in ball placement. 

 

Now im not making this stuff up.  These are in depth metrics from Sports Info Solutions, which is one of the best pro sports analytical groups out there. 

 

Yes Allen improved, but he was absolutely horrific in the key metrics franchise Qbs statistcally excel at. 

 

Does this mean he can't improve?  No.   It means that at this juncture in his career, and knowing his college history, (not really impressive) it is highly unlikely he turns into a franchise Qb. 

 

I posted a great article in another thread that went more in depth into the metrics. 

 

I hoped Allen would succeed and end this Qb drought.  But I'd be willing to bet anything Allen will look terrible this year.  By terrible I mean, more of the same.  Wild throws, missing wide open recievers, glued to his first to second reads, terrible foot work and drops, holding the ball too long, and bad ball placement on his receivers. 

 

I could be wrong and he could shock the world, but the data says we have a Mitch Trubisky on our hands. 

 

Enter Fromm.   A proven winning quarterback and three-year starter in the toughest division in college football. A quarterback who has thrown more passes against top defenses then any other quarterback in the draft....

 

"Here's the percentage of pass attempts by each top QB in the draft that came vs. top-50 defenses by SP+:"

1. Jake Fromm, 77.92%
2. Tua Tagovailoa, 60.71%
3. Joe Burrow, 57.87%
4. Justin Herbert, 44.39%
5. Jacob Eason, 35.56%
6. Jordan Love, 30.02%

— Jim Sannes (@JimSannes) January 18, 2020

 

A kid who has beaten out every other quarterback he has gone up against.  A kid who is compared to offensive coordinators or to have a future in coaching, an all around very heady football IQ individual.  A kid who perfectly fits our West Coast type of offense and will pick it up and learn it immediately.  In all reality a 2nd to 3rd round draft pick that we stole in the fifth round and is a phenomenal prospect if Allen falters.

 

How was Josh in 4th quarter passing, 4th quarter comebacks, air yards per completion, total TDs and things of that nature? You pick the stats you want to show, but fail to show the entire picture. He has strengths and weaknesses, just like every other 2nd year QB has had in the history of the NFL. I never said he excelled at everything, I simply said he improved upon his rookie year in almost every statistical category, which is what you're looking for from your 2nd year QB that was labeled a project QB with great physical talents to do. You're looking for improvement at warp speed, by leaps and bounds, yet nearly every QB ever takes these steps gradually, over time. From the day he was drafted he was always going to take longer to get there, but the upside was too good to pass on. You need to find some patience because he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Fromm is getting compared to OCs because chances are that's where he'll be in a few years, much like Kellen Moore. Having limited NFL QB arm talent and being compared to an NFL OC has always been a death sentence for QBs coming out of college. That's a fact.

[BeastMaster]

3 hours ago, DCofNC said:

I see a lot of Brady in college in him.  He beats you with intelligence and average everything else.  Drew Henson was the golden boy in that era that never could take it away from Brady.  From took out 2 other higher rated, more athletic QBs for his job.  He has pretty good awareness, an accurate ball and average NFL arm strength.  If you look around, the all time greats we have watched, Brady, Breese, Manning, all pretty much innthe same mold, average arms, accurate, beat you with their head.   I am certainly not saying he will be anywhere near them, but I do think he can eventually start in the right system.   Last year he got happy feet and wasn't as good as the past because of it, if that sticks with him, hes done before he starts, but if he gets back to confidence in the pocket, you could have anything from a good backup to a Kirk Cousins level starter ( and in a highly unlikely scenario, something better).  This is the type of thing you can dream of in a 5th round pick.  If he flops, oh well.  At least it wasn't  high pick.

He would need to play with a great coach and system that tailors to his game perfectly and playing in fair weather conditions would also help.

 

I don't think he's getting any of that in Buffalo

[John from Riverside]

4 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I guess regress is too strong a word. I don't expect he will. I mean progress. 

 

If there isnt any or very little progress in Allen I hope there is a decent contingency plan going into the 2021 season, and it isn't Jake Fromm....

No it would not be jake

 

but there is also no reason there would not be progress from Allen his ol is back intact he has been given more weapons and he is his 3rd year in the system 

[Don Otreply]

5 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Yea. I guess regress is too strong a word. I don't expect he will. I mean progress. 

 

If there isnt any or very little progress in Allen I hope there is a decent contingency plan going into the 2021 season, and it isn't Jake Fromm....

Rest assured that Beane already has a plan in place for that contingency. It is after all his job to do so. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[DCofNC]

1 hour ago, BeastMaster said:

He would need to play with a great coach and system that tailors to his game perfectly and playing in fair weather conditions would also help.

 

I don't think he's getting any of that in Buffalo

I agree on the system fit, but i don't buy the elements excuse.  

[TwistofFate]

3 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

How was Josh in 4th quarter passing, 4th quarter comebacks, air yards per completion, total TDs and things of that nature? You pick the stats you want to show, but fail to show the entire picture. He has strengths and weaknesses, just like every other 2nd year QB has had in the history of the NFL. I never said he excelled at everything, I simply said he improved upon his rookie year in almost every statistical category, which is what you're looking for from your 2nd year QB that was labeled a project QB with great physical talents to do. You're looking for improvement at warp speed, by leaps and bounds, yet nearly every QB ever takes these steps gradually, over time. From the day he was drafted he was always going to take longer to get there, but the upside was too good to pass on. You need to find some patience because he's not going anywhere anytime soon.

 

Fromm is getting compared to OCs because chances are that's where he'll be in a few years, much like Kellen Moore. Having limited NFL QB arm talent and being compared to an NFL OC has always been a death sentence for QBs coming out of college. That's a fact.

I pick the metrics that franchise Qbs excel at. 

 

4 quarter comebacks?   Who cares?   You know who else led the league in game winning for the season?   Blake Bortles (2015) Geno Smith(2013) and Mariota (2017).   So what is that stat telling you? Nothing. 

 

Allen ranks dead last in Completion %.  He ranks 32nd in on-target throw percentage, per Sports Info Solutions.  His passing break down is below in the chart.  He literally falls off a cliff at about 23 yards.  And that just wasn't this year, it was his rookie year as well. 

 

"Allen’s advanced metrics do not paint an encouraging picture. He ranks 24th in QBR and has a negative Expected Points Added total. And he’s 25th in net-yards-per-attempt due to all of those sacks he takes."

 

"Even Allen’s improvement in the turnover department appears to be flukey. Yes, Allen has turned the ball over only four times (two interceptions and two fumbles lost) in the last 10 weeks, but only two players in the entire NFL have fumbled more often over that time — Buffalo has just recovered seven of his nine fumbles. And, according to Sports Info Solutions, defenders have dropped five would-be interceptions thrown by Allen since Week 10 alone."

 

His clean pocket stats, which carry the most predictive power of any statistical split, are not very good. He ranks in the bottom-third in the league in every major metric from a clean pocket, including EPA, yards-per-attempt and accuracy percentage. 

 

https://twitter.com/QBKlass/status/1208781915790004225/photo/1

 

There isn’t a quarterback from the right side of that list that turned out to be any good, except for maybe Ryan Tannehill, who is having a breakout season in Tennessee … at age 30. And even if you just use Allen’s 2019 ANY/A (5.75) as the cutoff, the only quarterback of note you’re adding to the “bad” side is Andy Dalton.

 

The bottom line is the most important analytics of a franchise Qb are absent from Allen. 

 

So I wont hold my breath waiting for him to be franchise guy, and if he fails, I'm simply happy to see McBeane has a contingency plan in the works with a steal in the fifth round.

 

Everyone says Fromm could be successful in the right system....Newsflash, this is the right system.   He's tailor made to run our style of offense.