Tre White - Best in the League?

[Houston's #1 Bills Fan]

So, I was reading in the Dawkins/Milano thread about how Tre might be paid the highest in the league once we get to his contract negotiations. That started me thinking, "Is Tre the best in the League to get that kind of money?" I think that Tre is very good, but after his performance against Hopkins in the playoff game, I'm starting to wonder just a little bit.

 

Here are my two thoughts on that: 1. I think that Hopkins is damn good and that no corner is going to shut him down the entire game. 2. All players can have bad games and Tre was a little off in that game.

 

These are my thoughts. What y'all think? I agree with the poster in the Dawkins/Milano thread that I'm tired of seeing talented corners come here only to leave and get paid big bucks. But, is Tre worth the green?

 

Lastly, I think Tre REALLY likes playing here and has an awesome attitude about the Bills and the city. Plus, he could also play for the Sabres!

[GunnerBill]

Yes. He is top 3 in the league. He is totally worth the money.

[Johnny Hammersticks]

He’s among the best in the league, and yes, he deserves to be paid like the best.  Not only is he an elite DB, but has outstanding character.  Beane will certainly pay him, IMO.

[TigerJ]

He may be in the conversation, but that kind of conversation is filled with subjectivity.  The Bills are looking for certain qualities in their cornerbacks, which are a little different from what Bill Belichick is looking for because the defense is different.  It's not unreasonable that Tre could be the highest paid CB at some point, but that has as much to do with the timing of when his rookie deal is up as it does with the question of him being the best CB.  Of one thing you can be sure.  If he is the highest paid CB when he signs his deal, that will only last until the next elite CB signs his deal.

Edited April 16, 2020 by TigerJ

[Mr. K]

We got our own Bo Jackson. Just wait til Tre hits the Ice. You think if we put a fridge in his locker we can get him to stay? The Houston game was a team loss even though JA had a lot of ugly in the second half. Pay the man what he wants. He is awesome and entertaining. 85 mil for 5 years? 

[Lurker]

Best zone CB.   Not sure about man-to-man CB...

[BeastMaster]

3 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Best zone CB.   Not sure about man-to-man CB...

And this is where I truly question his value in this scheme.

 

Remember McD also had Norman who was shut down in Carolina, and they let him walk cause they didn't value him at the money he was seeking.

 

Tre is great, and has great ball skills. With that said, I wonder if Beane and McDermott do not see his value as high as others here do, and that they may eventually let him go.

 

Just something I've thought about...

[Happy]

4 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Best zone CB.   Not sure about man-to-man CB...

 

Good zone CB, but is too susceptible in getting beat during man to man coverage.  I don't think that is worth elite money.  Put more money and resources into the d-line that will get after the QB in a more consistent manner, then you won't need to overpay a DB.

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

He might not be “the best” although he’s definitely in that discussion, however, the last top player to sign usually becomes the highest paid at the position, until the next top guy’s contract is up. Then he becomes the top paid and on and on and on .....

[C.Biscuit97]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yes. He is top 3 in the league. He is totally worth the money.

For sure (still would have taken Mahomes/ Watson ?).  But for all the salary cap is so great nerds, it’s about to shrink real fast.  Kinda happens when players become good and get a second contract.  

12 minutes ago, Lurker said:

Best zone CB.   Not sure about man-to-man CB...

Fair point as well.  McDermott is a great secondary coach (it’s what he played in college) and has a very good system for d backs. 

[Stank_Nasty]

42 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Good zone CB, but is too susceptible in getting beat during man to man coverage.  I don't think that is worth elite money.  Put more money and resources into the d-line that will get after the QB in a more consistent manner, then you won't need to overpay a DB.

You might be the one person on the planet I see that consistently claims white isn’t in the elite tier. Awful take IMO( and everyone else’s opinion), but I guess I commend you for the consistency 

 

not only did the guy get recognized as a freaking 1st team all pro, he sealed or basically won us 3 games last year on his plays alone..... but, ya know..... that one game against Hopkins when he gave up 70 yds. Lol. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[thebandit27]

I don’t know if he is the definitive answer to “who’s the best?”, but I’m certain that he’s be in the discussion.

 

[Happy]

Just now, Stank_Nasty said:

You might be the one person on the planet I see that consistently claims white isn’t in the elite tier. Awful take IMO( and everyone else’s opinion), but I guess I commend you for the consistency 

 

I'm not here for the group think, but to offer my honest/humble opinion.  You may or may not like it, which is fine either way.  BTW, I'm not the only poster with this position, just they are in the minority.

[Stank_Nasty]

17 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'm not here for the group think, but to offer my honest/humble opinion.  You may or may not like it, which is fine either way.  BTW, I'm not the only poster with this position, just they are in the minority.

right. You and those 2 other people certainly must be onto something here that the rest of the football world has missed. 

18 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

I don’t know if he is the definitive answer to “who’s the best?”, but I’m certain that he’s be in the discussion.

 

And to add to this. Getting these huge all time biggest sort of contracts doesn’t even have to do with if you are the best at your position. One of the best? Probably. But the cap is trending upward. Each year the next big FA at his position is probably gonna be the highest ever paid there. It’s just how the cycle is working. 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Good zone CB, but is too susceptible in getting beat during man to man coverage.  I don't think that is worth elite money.  Put more money and resources into the d-line that will get after the QB in a more consistent manner, then you won't need to overpay a DB.

 

 Ahhh....the 2018 Kansas City Chiefs model.  Get after the QB in which they lead the league in sacks that year with 52 but since they didn't have the talent in the secondary....they had 2nd worst pass defense.  So much so is that they made their secondary a focus in the offseason....then had a very good defense.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article237864574.html

On a defense in need of an offseason shakeup, the secondary encountered the most significant makeover, with three newcomers in the five most prominent spots. But even as the description of last year’s underwhelming unit has shadowed their every move, the personnel overhaul prompted a production overhaul.

33 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I'm not here for the group think, but to offer my honest/humble opinion.  You may or may not like it, which is fine either way.  BTW, I'm not the only poster with this position, just they are in the minority.

 

The thing is, you're basically saying Tre is an average corner.  "Good" in zone but "susceptible" in man.  With a weakness that glaring, he would have been attacked a lot more and wouldn't have given up ZERO TD's.  But somehow NFL Offensive coordinators couldn't figure out how to exploit it?

[Don Otreply]

He is among the best, what they pay him? Frankly I don’t care,  just keep him on the team. Beane is a clever guy, he will structure the deal so that both parties win. 
 

Go Bills!!!

[DCOrange]

I'm not sure he's the best, but I would bet that when he gets his new contract, he'll be the highest paid in the league. That's just how NFL contracts work.

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

1 hour ago, Mr. K said:

We got our own Bo Jackson. Just wait til Tre hits the Ice. You think if we put a fridge in his locker we can get him to stay? The Houston game was a team loss even though JA had a lot of ugly in the second half. Pay the man what he wants. He is awesome and entertaining. 85 mil for 5 years? 

85 for 5 years and I’m drafting a CB. He is a very good zone CB, there are a lot of very good CB’s in the NFL. Our HC and DC specialize in coaching DB talent, taking solid CB and making them good ones.  I have never seen White listed as a top 10 CB in any of the lists that I have looked at. I also think the defense that we run and having two very good safeties helps White out a lot. 

[GunnerBill]

The "Tre sometimes gets beaten in man" crowd are right. Sometimes he does. But not very often. The only 4 NFL receivers I have genuinely seen come out of a 1:1 battle with Tre White ahead are DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, Kenny Golladay and Robby Anderson. Two of those likely get HoF consideration at the end of their careers and Golladay and Anderson are fine players in their own right.

 

I don't think Tre is Josh Norman. The Bills leave him 1:1 plenty and it his ability to survive in those defensive calls that allows them to bring a safety up into the box so often and play a softer zone look on the other side of the field. I think Tre could go to a team that plays more man and still be a top 5 NFL corner.

[jrober38]

We should be extending White this offseason to get his cap hits down in 2022 and beyond.

 

5 years, $80 mil seems like it should do it. 

[Happy]

43 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

 Ahhh....the 2018 Kansas City Chiefs model.  Get after the QB in which they lead the league in sacks that year with 52 but since they didn't have the talent in the secondary....they had 2nd worst pass defense.  So much so is that they made their secondary a focus in the offseason....then had a very good defense.

 

https://www.kansascity.com/sports/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/article237864574.html

On a defense in need of an offseason shakeup, the secondary encountered the most significant makeover, with three newcomers in the five most prominent spots. But even as the description of last year’s underwhelming unit has shadowed their every move, the personnel overhaul prompted a production overhaul.

 

The thing is, you're basically saying Tre is an average corner.  "Good" in zone but "susceptible" in man.  With a weakness that glaring, he would have been attacked a lot more and wouldn't have given up ZERO TD's.  But somehow NFL Offensive coordinators couldn't figure out how to exploit it?

 

Or the 2019 49ers model.  Wasn't the 2018 Chiefs D susceptible to the run?

 

I think he's an above average corner, in general.  I do think he is susceptible in man-to-man, especially in space, which is what the stats seem to be pointing out.  We do need to put more pressure on the QB which would help any DB on the field.  It is my belief that you can't cover to victory because the rules favor the offense and they will get the benefit of the doubt.

[John from Riverside]

Top 3

[DCOrange]

8 minutes ago, jrober38 said:

We should be extending White this offseason to get his cap hits down in 2022 and beyond.

 

5 years, $80 mil seems like it should do it. 

In all likelihood, Tre won't agree to an extension this offseason. He shouldn't be in any rush, and as other corners sign, the price tag will only go up higher. I imagine it'll be in the $90-100 million range when it's all said and done (unless he goes for something shorter like 4 years and $75-80 million).

[Koko78]

You have to pay the man. He's a great CB, and no one wants him to close the Tre White Goalie Academy of Louisiana at Buffalo.

[jrober38]

Just now, DCOrange said:

In all likelihood, Tre won't agree to an extension this offseason. He shouldn't be in any rush, and as other corners sign, the price tag will only go up higher. I imagine it'll be in the $90-100 million range when it's all said and done (unless he goes for something shorter like 4 years and $75-80 million).

 

Why not?

 

What if he blows his knee out?

 

Zeke Elliott held out all last summer (after his 3rd year) because he wanted an extension.

 

The risk/reward of getting a couple mil extra or suffering a major injury that drastically reduces his earning potential seems like a no brainer for both sides. 

[DCOrange]

Just now, jrober38 said:

 

Why not?

 

What if he blows his knee out?

 

Zeke Elliott held out all last summer (after his 3rd year) because he wanted an extension.

 

The risk/reward of getting a couple mil extra or suffering a major injury that drastically reduces his earning potential seems like a no brainer for both sides. 

Because he still has 2 years left on his deal anyways, and again, with each major corner that signs a contract, his price goes up. 5/$80 won't get it done anymore because Byron Jones already exceeded that and Tre is better + inflation.

[jrober38]

1 minute ago, DCOrange said:

Because he still has 2 years left on his deal anyways, and again, with each major corner that signs a contract, his price goes up. 5/$80 won't get it done anymore because Byron Jones already exceeded that and Tre is better + inflation.

 

Then give him 5 years $85 mil.

The point is we should be extending him now. Lock up our best player and send a positive message to the locker room that if you perform you'll get taken care of. 

Start negotiating is what I'm saying. 

[GreggTX]

I don't think he's in the top 2 or 3, but he's very good and I hope he will sign for a fair price.

[thurst44]

54 minutes ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

85 for 5 years and I’m drafting a CB. He is a very good zone CB, there are a lot of very good CB’s in the NFL. Our HC and DC specialize in coaching DB talent, taking solid CB and making them good ones.  I have never seen White listed as a top 10 CB in any of the lists that I have looked at. I also think the defense that we run and having two very good safeties helps White out a lot. 

Not sure what lists you are looking at. Other than PFF, he's pretty universally near the top of every top 10 list. He was All-Pro, so that puts him in the Top 2 according to AP, PWFA, and SN

 

Here's the first non-PFF lists I could find:

https://www.ranker.com/list/best-cornerbacks-in-nfl-right-now/ranker-nfl

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfls-top-10-cornerbacks-2019-203303503.html

https://touchdownwire.usatoday.com/2019/06/04/the-nfls-11-best-outside-cornerbacks/9/

 

He was 4th in passes defensed, 2nd in passer rating against, 1st in TDs allowed, 1st in Interceptions. 

 

I'm going to say that your lists of "top 10 CB" is not overly scientific.

[Mickey]

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

….have to laugh when remembering some folks here wanted to use him as trade bait for 2018 draft....um...er….ok...………...

[BigBillsFan]

May I ask the question is IF CBs are worth that kind of money to a team? Is there any evidence the best CB helps a team win that much? A thanks to any poster who might know.

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

Or the 2019 49ers model.  Wasn't the 2018 Chiefs D susceptible to the run?

 

I think he's an above average corner, in general.  I do think he is susceptible in man-to-man, especially in space, which is what the stats seem to be pointing out.  We do need to put more pressure on the QB which would help any DB on the field.  It is my belief that you can't cover to victory because the rules favor the offense and they will get the benefit of the doubt.

 

Yes they were but they were also the 2nd worse pass defense in the league even though they lead the league in sacks.  

Why was that?  Why did they focus on the secondary in the offseason and not the run defense?  This past year they were 26th against the run but 8th against the pass.

I guess the 49ers model works and the Chiefs doesn't.

 

Yes putting pressure on the QB helps a DB just like not having WR running wide open helps the pass rush....especially if you have QB's that get the ball out quick.

 

Stephon Gilmore won the NFL defensive player of the year and he does get burned because you can't completely shut everyone down 100% of the time.

 

I just think it's pretty wild how a corner who didn't give up a single passing TD wasn't good enough for you.  I'm not making the argument he's the absolute best in the league but to say he's "above average", like at the same level as like an Adoree Jackson....it's really strange.  

 

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

 

Winfield wasn't coming back.  I watched his post lockerroom interview after his last game as a Bill.

He was straight up asked "Do you want to come back to Buffalo?"  He smiled and said "we'll see".  I knew there wasn't any hope.

 

Clements I believe became the highest paid NFL defensive player of all time.  He was good but not that good and then was demoted to nickel corner about a year or two later.

 

Pegula and Beane will pay.  

[BillsVet]

 

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

Does make me wonder. Nate Clements was one of the best in the league and we let him go. Ditto with Antoine Winfield. Now maybe my memory is off and they weren't quite that good but either way, there was no fan uproar about it at all. They both got big bucks when they left, especially Clements. Why wouldn't the same thing happen with Tre? Different owners, different GMs? Hope so.

 

Interesting to see how the board views White if contract negotiations are difficult.  That's a huge if at this point, but the board turned against Clements when he wanted a big contract.  Difference is now that Buffalo has the Pegula dollars and isn't constrained by the Ralph/Littman penny-pinching.

 

Second, how would the Bills locker room view not signing someone like White? He's the first marquee player to be up for contract extension (apologies to Dawkins and Milano - they're not All-Pro caliber) and Buffalo has spent heavily on UFAs.  If he's not signed, it sends a message that McBeane's process talk is just that and they'll reward outside guys as opposed to home-grown.

 

There's a lot we still don't know about McBeane and their approach to negotiating contracts.  Many of the UFA deals are ones they can get out of after 1-2 seasons, but a Tre White deal likely is a 4-5 year extension.   I would think he'a  cornerstone player despite playing in a system where he gets help.  

 

 

[thebandit27]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

The "Tre sometimes gets beaten in man" crowd are right. Sometimes he does. But not very often. The only 4 NFL receivers I have genuinely seen come out of a 1:1 battle with Tre White ahead are DeAndre Hopkins, AJ Green, Kenny Golladay and Robby Anderson. Two of those likely get HoF consideration at the end of their careers and Golladay and Anderson are fine players in their own right.

 

I don't think Tre is Josh Norman. The Bills leave him 1:1 plenty and it his ability to survive in those defensive calls that allows them to bring a safety up into the box so often and play a softer zone look on the other side of the field. I think Tre could go to a team that plays more man and still be a top 5 NFL corner.

The only corners that don’t get beat are the ones on the bench.

 

Example numero uno: the near-unanimous answer to “who’s the best” would be Gilmore. He got “smoked” by our boy for a huge TD on National TV.

 

Corners get beat. All of them.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

The only corners that don’t get beat are the ones on the bench.

 

Example numero uno: the near-unanimous answer to “who’s the best” would be Gilmore. He got “smoked” by our boy for a huge TD on National TV.

 

Corners get beat. All of them.

 

Tre has been in the league 3 years. He has played all but the Jets week 17 game. I make that 47 regular season starts. And two playoff games. 49 NFL games. If he has only come off on the wrong end of a matchup 4 or 5 times in 49 I think that squarely puts him in the elite category. 

[HappyDays]

The average passer rating on targets in his direction was 45.0 last year. For point of reference Nate Peterman had a passer rating of 45.3 in our game against the Bears in 2018. Yes White is a top 3 corner in the league and we will make him the highest paid corner without blinking an eye.

[K-9]

People accusing Tre of being a one dimensional CB really need to go rewatch last season. He has a less than great half against a HOF wideout with an all star QB pitching to him and all of a sudden he can’t play man to man? Really?

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

People accusing Tre of being a one dimensional CB really need to go rewatch last season. He has a less than great half against a HOF wideout with an all star QB pitching to him and all of a sudden he can’t play man to man? Really?

That less-than-great half included stripping that same HOF wideout for a turnover that lead to 3 points.

 

People are weird.

5 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

The average passer rating on targets in his direction was 45.0 last year. For point of reference Nate Peterman had a passer rating of 45.3 in our game against the Bears in 2018. Yes White is a top 3 corner in the league and we will make him the highest paid corner without blinking an eye.

Want to hear something gross? NE had 5 DBs that ranked the top 16 of all NFL defensive players in passer rating allowed.