Mesh point Josh Allen/ Motor

[billvernsays]

I’ve been rewatching the games from last year and a few things keep Coming up. 
1) I’m super pumped and excited of what this team can accomplish next year. We have a difficult schedule but I’m not concerned at all, can’t remember the last time I thought like that. 

 

2) Offseason work is NEEDED on the mesh point between Motor and JA. When they attempt to do read options which should be  a staple in our offense, it’s too awkward and not nearly as smooth as it needs to be. This keeps coming up while reviewing the games. 

3) I’m probably gonna get crap for this but I didn’t realize how many IMPACT play Shaq made. In our signature wins last year some HUGE defensive plays were because of Lawson and Although I’m confident the moves we made make me feel like we’ll be OK but it’s something that shouldn’t be over looked. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by billvernsays

[whorlnut]

Allen and Singletary need to be more effective in the screen game too. If they are...watch out...

[billvernsays]

I completely agree with the screen game comment but I’m not sure if it’s a RB/QB or OLine init Selling it enough ssue 

[Buffalo716]

4 minutes ago, whorlnut said:

Allen and Singletary need to be more effective in the screen game too. If they are...watch out...

Screens are only as effective as your line can run a screen properly. And defensive tendencies are key as well

 

Allen is a great threat to run. So teams contain the LoS alot more instead of pure rush. So other teams D ends are constantly setting the edge and reading  not pinning back and rushing

[billvernsays]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Screens are only as effective as your line can run a screen properly. And defensive tendencies are key as well

 

Allen is a great threat to run. So teams contain the LoS alot more instead of pure rush. So other teams D ends are constantly setting the edge and reading  not pinning back and rushing

Yeah I can’t figure it out as to why our screens aren’t effective but this seems to make sense 

[John from Riverside]

Not worried about Singletary at all.....and think he will be even better next year....that said......he cant carry the rock on every play and we MUST have a dependable back behind him.

[Happy]

9 minutes ago, billvernsays said:

Yeah I can’t figure it out as to why our screens aren’t effective but this seems to make sense 

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

[Warcodered]

14 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

I think I remember some that didn't go anywhere and that one against Washington.

[Maybe Someday]

They should watch film of Lamar Jackson and Mark Ingram. They're probably the best at it right now. Lamar holds it in there forever. 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

[1ManRaid]

33 minutes ago, Maybe Someday said:

They should watch film of Lamar Jackson and Mark Ingram. They're probably the best at it right now. Lamar holds it in there forever. 

Apparently Lamar has very significant tells about if he plans to run or not.  Something about if he keeps his head up or tucks in his chin during the handoff.  Might explain why good defenses towards the end of the year "figured him out".

 

That would make it less of a read option and more of a well sold feint and simply not being able to chase him down.

[Buffalo_Stampede]

1 hour ago, whorlnut said:

Allen and Singletary need to be more effective in the screen game too. If they are...watch out...

Not talked about enough. Also Allen needs to to get Singletary the football quickly in routes. Use that weapon. He can be deadly out of the backfield.

 

I've gone back and forth on this. What type of sidekick does Singletary need? Most say a punisher. I don't know. Why not have a similar player. Clyde Edwards Helaire might be perfect. Just keep rolling. I don't know if I ever want to bring in a power back for short yardage. Spread the field and let those 2 RBs and Allen do work. It'll be rare on goal line or short yardage that they won't get it.

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Screens are only as effective as your line can run a screen properly. And defensive tendencies are key as well

 

Allen is a great threat to run. So teams contain the LoS alot more instead of pure rush. So other teams D ends are constantly setting the edge and reading  not pinning back and rushing

 

Agree totally with this. The way to make teams respect our screen game more is to make them respect our passing game as a whole. Once they have backed some guys off the line we will have more room to execute screens. 

 

Although both Allen and the line are dreadful at selling them as well. When we ran screens last season I was often calling them out pre snap or as soon as the ball was snapped from my sofa. If I had such a read on it then it is no surprise our opponents did too. 

Edited April 11, 2020 by GunnerBill

[maryland-bills-fan]

5 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Allen and Singletary need to be more effective in the screen game too. If they are...watch out...

 

Did they ever do a screen pass last year?

 

Singletary is not a natural at catching the short pass. 

He is not a big danger to get a big chunk if he catches the ball 3 yards past the LOS and takes off. 

He scares NOBODY if he flexes out as an additional wide receiver.  

He does not have elite speed to beat linebackers around the corner.

 

Fans may not agree with this, because the Bills did not run too many of these plays.   We lost offensive production because of this.

 

He is good as a shifty smart between the tackles, but is not big enough to push people aside or backwards near the goal line.

He had TWO Touchdowns last year.   (Bean is quoted as saying that he wants "touchdown makers")

 

We need to fill in those holes and there are 5 RB's in the draft who are good quality and can do that. There are also a good second tier who can compliment.

[MJS]

The offense needs to work on not making their QB sneaks so obvious. Everyone in the stadium knows when it's about to happen, and it doesn't seem smart to do it multiple times a game in similar situations.

[Chandler#81]

6 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

@GunnerBill explained it best

5 hours ago, Warcodered said:

I think I remember some that didn't go anywhere and that one against Washington.

They didn’t attempt many but when they did, it was effective. Playoff game.

5 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

Yes, horrendous management decisions!? Since you’re never likely to have them explain ANYTHING to you, I suggest finding a new team to support.

Please?

[Not at the table Karlos]

8 hours ago, billvernsays said:

I’ve been rewatching the games from last year and a few things keep Coming up. 
1) I’m super pumped and excited of what this team can accomplish next year. We have a difficult schedule but I’m not concerned at all, can’t remember the last time I thought like that. 

 

2) Offseason work is NEEDED on the mesh point between Motor and JA. When they attempt to do read options which should be  a staple in our offense, it’s too awkward and not nearly as smooth as it needs to be. This keeps coming up while reviewing the games. 

3) I’m probably gonna get crap for this but I didn’t realize how many IMPACT play Shaq made. In our signature wins last year some HUGE defensive plays were because of Lawson and Although I’m confident the moves we made make me feel like we’ll be OK but it’s something that shouldn’t be over looked. 

There was a few scary read options between Allen and singletary. Iirc there was one where Allen yanked singletary to the ground trying to pull the ball back 

[Bring it]

2 hours ago, maryland-bills-fan said:

 

Did they ever do a screen pass last year?

 

Singletary is not a natural at catching the short pass. 

He is not a big danger to get a big chunk if he catches the ball 3 yards past the LOS and takes off. 

He scares NOBODY if he flexes out as an additional wide receiver.  

He does not have elite speed to beat linebackers around the corner.

 

Fans may not agree with this, because the Bills did not run too many of these plays.   We lost offensive production because of this.

 

He is good as a shifty smart between the tackles, but is not big enough to push people aside or backwards near the goal line.

He had TWO Touchdowns last year.   (Bean is quoted as saying that he wants "touchdown makers")

 

We need to fill in those holes and there are 5 RB's in the draft who are good quality and can do that. There are also a good second tier who can compliment.

IMO he is a more dangerous weapon than you make him seem. But not much! His touchdown number is concerning for sure and should have been higher. Motor just isn’t a threat running the ball in goal line situations.

[thebandit27]

Good observation. I do think that part of the answer is reps, reps, and more reps.
 

The other part of it will come when both players are more comfortable reading their keys. 

[whorlnut]

7 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

Not talked about enough. Also Allen needs to to get Singletary the football quickly in routes. Use that weapon. He can be deadly out of the backfield.

 

I've gone back and forth on this. What type of sidekick does Singletary need? Most say a punisher. I don't know. Why not have a similar player. Clyde Edwards Helaire might be perfect. Just keep rolling. I don't know if I ever want to bring in a power back for short yardage. Spread the field and let those 2 RBs and Allen do work. It'll be rare on goal line or short yardage that they won't get it.

I listed to a podcast yesterday with a guy that really studies the RBs. He thinks Cam Akers is the best fit for what we do here. I tend to agree.  

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

[Fixxxer]

9 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

 

We don't seem to be very proficient running those screen passes , though I remember one in OT against the Texans that went for a long gain with Singletary.

 

I think most of the time it's a matter of when to call a screen pass, more than excecution per se.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

8 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

#neverchange

[Buffalo_Stampede]

45 minutes ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

I have no problem at all with them not picking up the 5th year option. Lawson is a better player but he took a while to develop.

[Stank_Nasty]

4 hours ago, MJS said:

The offense needs to work on not making their QB sneaks so obvious. Everyone in the stadium knows when it's about to happen, and it doesn't seem smart to do it multiple times a game in similar situations.

Seemed like it had a really good success rate regardless. I mean brady and then pats have killed people with it for years and everyone in the stadium and watching from the tv knows it’s coming. 

[CSBill]

10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

 

I've re-watched the Ravens and play-off games this week on NFL Network. In both games there were screen plays that went for big yards, 25+.  They are there, just not a constant like in NE.

[DJB]

10 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said:

 

I don't recall seeing any screens called this past season.  Either Daboll doesn't believe in them (which he should be fired, if this is the case), or as the previous poster pointed out, our offense (line) can't do a good job of executing a screen.  Either way, it's a shame; if we can run a screen like the Pats do, those plays are usually good for close to 10 yards.  Nice play to have in your arsenal.

 

The only one I can recall that actually worked was the one against Houston. Singletary busted a big catch and run on that play. 

 

But yes I agree, we need to work on the screen game. It's my favorite offensive play to run and when it works it works well. 

[billvernsays]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

 

The only one I can recall that actually worked was the one against Houston. Singletary busted a big catch and run on that play. 

 

But yes I agree, we need to work on the screen game. It's my favorite offensive play to run and when it works it works well. 

In both the Dallas and Pittsburgh games they tried to run a few screens and each time they were blown up, you’ll also notice a few more examples of the mesh point issues. 

[vincec]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Agree totally with this. The way to make teams respect our screen game more is to make them respect our passing game as a whole. Once they have backed some guys off the line we will have more room to execute screens. 

This is a little appreciated point. People think that you call screens when your OL is getting beat to slow down the rush, but if your OL is getting beat then the DL have no need to sell out on their pass rush and are rarely fooled. Screens work when your passing game is working and the DL is scrambling to get pressure on the QB, losing some of their discipline in the process.

[Da webster guy]

10 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

Agree but Murphy sure saved his best performance for the playoffs.  Dude was a beast, couple sacks, hurries, tackles for loss, blowin up plays.   If he keeps that form next year he and Addison will be nasty on that left side

 

[maryland-bills-fan]

Some stats on Singletary as a pass receiver from https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/stats?season=2019&week=100&category=RECEIVING&opp=0&sort=2&qualified=1&sortOrder=0&page=5

 

He is the 208th leading receiver in the NFL in 2019..

 

He had 6.7 yards per catch and averaged 16.2 yards per game.

 

He was targeted 41 times and caught 29 passes for 194 yards

 

His longest play was 49 yards ....  ...   (If you take out this one play, then he averaged 5.2 yards /completion or 3.6 yards per pass attempted to him.)

 

His YAC was 193 and total yards was 194.   That suggests that he didn't get a lot of passes far down the field and a lot of them were caught behind the LOS.  I don't remember him serving as a hot read for the QB and my impression was that most of his passes were out on the flat as a type of running play.   I don't remember him lining up as a WR to go out on a downfield pattern.

 

I didn't watch most of the games, so I would welcome comments.

 

 

 

 

[DJB]

1 hour ago, billvernsays said:

In both the Dallas and Pittsburgh games they tried to run a few screens and each time they were blown up, you’ll also notice a few more examples of the mesh point issues. 

 

No question execution on our screens was terrible 

[Mr. K]

12 hours ago, whorlnut said:

Allen and Singletary need to be more effective in the screen game too. If they are...watch out...

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a little more delayed release from back field. With Brown and Diggs drawing eyes down field I would like to think the dump off to the Motor(and Beasley) is going to be effective.

[Punching Bag]

12 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Not picking up the fifth year option and starting Murphy over Lawson just can’t be explained. Beane and McD predetermined Murphy was the starter and it took 26 games for them to realize Lawson is a much better player. 

 

Since Ethan is best elevator in state of Oregon is shows why no team in Oregon - not enough talent!

 

Of course OUR defense has absolutely nothing to do with OUR offense's ability to run a screen except defense is team they practice against.

[Punching Bag]

5 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Good observation. I do think that part of the answer is reps, reps, and more reps.
 

The other part of it will come when both players are more comfortable reading their keys. 

 

NFLPA answer is less reps, less reps and even less reps for more pay.  

The current COVID situation is perfect for them if (1) Players get paid even if they do not play and (2) All incentives are paid since all players would have hit all incentives if not for COVID-19.

 

We should rename COVID-19 virus NFLPA-2020.

[RocCityRoller]

14 hours ago, billvernsays said:

Yeah I can’t figurep it out as to why our screens aren’t effective but this seems to make sense 

 

this keeps coming up

 

Spain and Feliciano are not pulling guards.

 

It's that simple