Goodell comments on Bills stadium issues at Super Bowl media day

[rayray808]

Honolulu Bills - calling it now

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

This is a very good parallel to the Athletic story about Buffalo's attraction for free agents.  

 

Let's say the league goes to a prortional model based on ratings and merch sales. Buffalo could easily lose $30 million in annual revenues and run at a loss every year.   How long would Pegulas be willing to subsidize that loss, compounded by the potential of a new franchise 100 miles to the north in a market 4 times it's size?

 

We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality.  

 

You aren't answering the question: what exactly are the revenue streams? 

What is the Bills revenue stream and what are the revenue streams of the other teams?

 

If a big part of it is TV, surely that is affected by when the games are on, and how widely they are broadcast. 

ow is it decided which games are to be televised where and when?

[Steptide]

I'll sum up his comments in a few words:

 

"the bills need a nicer stadium to generate more money for us" 

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

2 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I sometimes seriously wonder why the NFL owners put up with this clown? He's been absolutely terrible. From officiating, to player discipline, to the various scandals and other such things. How can they take him seriously? 

$$$ ... that’s the bottom line here

[Lurker]

7 minutes ago, GG said:

This is a very good parallel to the Athletic story about Buffalo's attraction for free agents.  

 

Let's say the league goes to a proportional model based on ratings and merch sales. Buffalo could easily lose $30 million in annual revenues and run at a loss every year.   How long would Pegulas be willing to subsidize that loss, compounded by the potential of a new franchise 100 miles to the north in a market 4 times it's size?

 

We don't like it as Bills fans, but it doesn't change the reality.  

 

Why would the league ever do that? 

 

The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that.   But getting a majority of the other owners to go along?   Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills.  They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow.   Can't see it happening...

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b

 

 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions)

Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization

 

1	Cowboys	$420
2	Patriots	$240
3	Texans	$176
4	Eagles	$150
5	Giants	$142
6	Ravens	$131
7	Saints	$126
8	Redskins	$120
9	Jets	$115
10	Seahawks	$106
11	Colts	$104
12	Steelers	$102
13	Falcons	$97
14	Broncos	$94
15	49ers	$93
16	Cardinals	$87
17	Chiefs	$83
18	Bills	$82
19	Panthers	$78
20	Jags	$77
21	Lions	$73
22	Chargers	$72
23	Dolphins	$67
24	Bucs	$66
25	Vikings	$65
26	Bears	$62
27	Bengals	$58
28	Titans	$53
29	Packers	$39
30	Browns	$32
31	Rams	$30
32	Raiders	$28

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

14 minutes ago, Southern Bills Fan said:

I travel to all bills away games in the southeast. I’ve also been to new era recently. The amenities and condition of new era is no worse than the superdome in New Orleans or the titans stadium in Nashville or the Jags stadium in Jacksonville. 

Meh.  Those other stadiums have concourses that,  while not pretty,  are 2x to 3x wider and far more accommodating to fans.  

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Hey Rodger.  You going to pay for it?

 

Those are things that the group has to settle collectively and to address over the next several months, if not sooner,” Goodell said.

31 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Don't we see this statement from Goodell every offseason?

yes we do 

[YoloinOhio]

34 minutes ago, Mrbojanglezs said:

Don't we see this statement from Goodell every offseason?

Yes, because someone asks him about it every year at the SB

[Augie]

Referring to some short term time frame like that does make me wonder if there is something happening behind the scenes, or is he just trying to rattle our cages. AGAIN. The coming months if not sooner??? What does THAT mean? Why invent urgency? Because you’ll have a tantrum if the Pegulas don’t act? 

 

.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Augie

[SF Bills Fan]

Whatever route they go (and it will be resolved soon it seems) Goodell better be ready to hand some money over from the stadium fund. I think teams get like $200 million or so. I know that was a figure thrown around for San Diego's failed bid. 

[Troll Toll]

3 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

The Bills have to fix their stadium to his standards or what? 

He'll force us to move to Toronto? 

He'll stop scheduling home games?

He'll hold his face until he turns blue?

 

I mean, what happens if the Bills extend their current lease at New Era with only modest renovations?

 

Education please

They’ll probably manage to give us worse officiating 

[SirAndrew]

56 minutes ago, batmanfreek said:

Because people who go to games in Buffalo aren’t dropping a lot of money on tickets. I believe they are still one if not the cheapest tickets in the league. 
 

Fans won’t pay more for tickets if nothing is improved. 
 

on the flip side even with a new stadium those same fans won’t pay higher ticket prices.  
 

You may get a different type of fan showing up to the game if ticket prices go up. 

I think our fan base is amazing, but I’m not convinced that Buffalo has this untapped market for football fans who have yet to attend games at New Era Field. There’s not really a hidden wine and cheese in Buffalo waiting for a football palace to built. There also aren’t Fortune 500 companies waiting to dish out the big bucks. A new stadium would definitely maximize profits, but it would need to a modest stadium, and I think the comish would still be let down. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by SirAndrew

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

2 hours ago, Doc Brown said:

He's their lapdog who takes all the criticism so they don't have to.  He's also made them a lot of money since he took over as tv revenue has exploded.

 

 

....greedmeisters Jurrah and Boy Danny Snyder's $40 mil/yr puppet......think he'd bite THAT hand?......

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....greedmeisters Jurrah and Boy Danny Snyder's $40 mil/yr puppet......think he'd bite THAT hand?......

 

Well, no, but they are 2 out of 32 owners.  Are the other 29, some of whom apparently have a lower revenue stream than the Bills, let the two of them go their bully way?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Well, no, but they are 2 out of 32 owners.  Are the other 29, some of whom apparently have a lower revenue stream than the Bills, let the two of them go their bully way?

 

...great question.....who knows which ones have "sway power" behind closed doors and why......

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

id love to see the business argument why this is so necessary. 
 

 

 
 

 

We all know it’s not necessary, it’s all a pile of warm steamy  BS. 

 

But not to worry,  PSE has already determined what they are going to do, and the plan is already in place. and it was part of the overall business plan right from the beginning/purchase of the team, and that implementation is only waiting for the start date, when ever that is. 

 

There will be much Nashing of teeth when the new stadium location is announced, it will be in the city of Buffalo, alongside the other large PSE investments already in place, and it will have a roof, change is the only constant. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[MJS]

I mean, what leverage does Goodell have?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 minute ago, Don Otreply said:

We all know it’s not necessary, it’s all a pile of warm steamy  BS. 

 

But not to worry,  PSE has already determined what they are going to do, and the plan is already in place. and it was part of the overall business plan right from the beginning/purchase of the team, and that implementation is only waiting for the start date, when ever that is. 

 

There will be much Nashing of teeth when the new stadium location is announced, it will be in the city of Buffalo, alongside the other large PSE investments already in place, and it will have a roof, change is the only constant. 

 

Go Bills!!!

 

How is it going to be funded?

[MJS]

50 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Why would the league ever do that? 

 

The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that.   But getting a majority of the other owners to go along?   Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills.  They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow.   Can't see it happening...

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b

 

 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions)

Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization

 

1	Cowboys	$420
2	Patriots	$240
3	Texans	$176
4	Eagles	$150
5	Giants	$142
6	Ravens	$131
7	Saints	$126
8	Redskins	$120
9	Jets	$115
10	Seahawks	$106
11	Colts	$104
12	Steelers	$102
13	Falcons	$97
14	Broncos	$94
15	49ers	$93
16	Cardinals	$87
17	Chiefs	$83
18	Bills	$82
19	Panthers	$78
20	Jags	$77
21	Lions	$73
22	Chargers	$72
23	Dolphins	$67
24	Bucs	$66
25	Vikings	$65
26	Bears	$62
27	Bengals	$58
28	Titans	$53
29	Packers	$39
30	Browns	$32
31	Rams	$30
32	Raiders	$28

 

Looks like the Bills and their stadium are already competitive. Right in the middle of the pack. I'd start rattling that Packers cage and force them out of their old, decrepit stadium, Goodell. Clearly they aren't pulling their weight. Or how about all those other teams below the Bills with newer stadiums?

Edited January 29, 2020 by MJS

[GG]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You aren't answering the question: what exactly are the revenue streams? 

What is the Bills revenue stream and what are the revenue streams of the other teams?

 

If a big part of it is TV, surely that is affected by when the games are on, and how widely they are broadcast. 

ow is it decided which games are to be televised where and when?

 

The major revenues are from TV contracts- Direct TV, CBS, NBC, FOX & ESPN, followed by SiriusXM and other national radio - That's about $10 billion for the league as a whole and is shared equally.  If this changes, then yeah, Bills will be subject to the scheduling devil, which won't be kind.

 

Then come the new digital revenues, international & merch and licensing.    Those are the big ticket items, followed by stadium revenues, which are also split among gate receipts, concessions, parking, suites and PSLs.  These are not shared equally.  Bills have the lowest ticket prices, which are $30 below the NFL average, meaning visiting teams on average "lose" $3 million in lost revenue opportunity each time they play in Buffalo.   Conversely, Bills get a subsidy by playing away games in stadiums with higher ticket prices. 

 

Merchandising is another area where Bills are lagging.  Right now that revenue is shared.  But how many Allen jerseys are sold around the world compared to the stars?

 

The point I'm trying to get across is that the current revenue sharing deals aren't permanent.  The high revenue teams in big markets all upgraded their facilities recently, have pretty big debt payments and are subsidizing the smaller market teams.  The Forbes article that Lurker links is totally misleading about teams' finances.  I've always had a problem with Ozanian's methodology, starting from the basics that he's redefining accounting terms - Operating Income is not EBITDA, and it's certainly not inclusive of debt service costs.  That's why you see crazy low "operating income" numbers for Jets, Giants, Bears and Rams.   

 

These teams have crazy expenses now because they all upgraded their facilities.  I don't think it will sit well for Terry to come in and tell them to go pound sand after they just poured billions of their own money into new stadiums.

 

Like it or not, Buffalo is subsidized by the big NFL  teams.   All they want is for Pegula to try to keep up.

 

 

52 minutes ago, Lurker said:

 

Why would the league ever do that? 

 

The Jones' and Kraft's and Kronke's would like that.   But getting a majority of the other owners to go along?   Most teams aren't in the super city group--they're more like the Bills.  They know where the action is--asset appreciation, not cash flow.   Can't see it happening...

 

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2019/09/04/the-nfls-most-valuable-teams-2019-cowboys-lead-league-at-55-billion/#56c701252f1b

 

 2018 Operating Income Per Team ($ Millions)

Earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization

 

1	Cowboys	$420
2	Patriots	$240
3	Texans	$176
4	Eagles	$150
5	Giants	$142
6	Ravens	$131
7	Saints	$126
8	Redskins	$120
9	Jets	$115
10	Seahawks	$106
11	Colts	$104
12	Steelers	$102
13	Falcons	$97
14	Broncos	$94
15	49ers	$93
16	Cardinals	$87
17	Chiefs	$83
18	Bills	$82
19	Panthers	$78
20	Jags	$77
21	Lions	$73
22	Chargers	$72
23	Dolphins	$67
24	Bucs	$66
25	Vikings	$65
26	Bears	$62
27	Bengals	$58
28	Titans	$53
29	Packers	$39
30	Browns	$32
31	Rams	$30
32	Raiders	$28

 

This chart is completely misleading as to the actual operating income and finances.

[Southern Bills Fan]

47 minutes ago, AlCowlingsTaxiService said:

Meh.  Those other stadiums have concourses that,  while not pretty,  are 2x to 3x wider and far more accommodating to fans.  

So we should build a new billion dollar stadium because you need wider concourses?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 minutes ago, GG said:

This chart is completely misleading as to the actual operating income and finances.

 

Fair enough, to the list Lurker posted, but then where would we find an actual list of operating income and finances per team?

[Troll Toll]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

id love to see the business argument why this is so necessary. 
 

 

 
 

 

Same here. I don’t see how a new stadium will increase revenue significantly.

[YoloinOhio]

 

[fansince88]

I just wish the cup holder in the seat I sat in for the Washington game wasnt broken.

[MDH]

2 hours ago, Coach Tuesday said:

 

Who said anything about a MOVE?  

 

Goodell did. He slid it right in there:

 

"We all want the Buffalo Bills to continue to be in Buffalo, to be successful."

 

Would that make any sense if, before their new stadium he had said, "We all want the Dallas Cowboys to continue to be in Dallas, to be successful."? No, it wouldn't have and that's because there was zero chance that the Cowboys were going to move. Zero.

 

Goodell just brought up the thought of Buffalo not having a team and he did it by saying the opposite, how we all want them to have a team. Pretty slick, but a pretty obvious threat too. 

 

[GG]

13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair enough, to the list Lurker posted, but then where would we find an actual list of operating income and finances per team?

 

Good luck with that!   Forbes is the only public source, but you have to pick through the numbers to get the real story.   

 

If anything, the Forbes numbers prove the point that high revenue, big market teams will play hard ball in the next round of negotiations because now they are bringing in much less money home than the teams they are subsidizing.

[buffalobillsfootball]

Team is not going anywhere.

• It may or may not move from its current location
  • Everyone has an opinion about location
• Everyone has an opinion about tailgating
• The Pegula's would not have bought the team without a plan.
• Yes, this will be a public/private initiative.
  • The State should look no further to the HUGE cash cow in our backyard - the New York Power Authority. T
    • They are making a TON of money and should contribute.

And here is my opinion - you don't spend ANY additional money in Orchard Park.  If you want to play in the big leagues you have to pay. 

 

Build an all new state of the art Stadium/Convention Center downtown near Canalside.

 

I don't buy the BS about downtown not having the infrastructure to support a stadium - the city was once 4 times in size and population. 

 

There are also multiple modes of transportation to the City v Orchard Park.

 

You don't spend $500M on an old stadium in Orchard Park - which could not be further than the fastest growing area in the region: Southern Ontario.

 

 

[Happy]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I sometimes seriously wonder why the NFL owners put up with this clown? He's been absolutely terrible. From officiating, to player discipline, to the various scandals and other such things. How can they take him seriously? 

 

He makes them money.  The quality of the game has gone way down during Goodell's tenure, but that is not important apparently.

3 hours ago, Binghamton Beast said:

Pegula should thumb his nose at Goodell and build a stadium that has wooden bleechers and wooden press boxes that the media has to climb steep, metal stairs to get to.

 

Brilliant!  All Goodell has to do is flick his half smoked cigarette at the press boxes or stairs (after a little gasoline is spread) and the whole thing goes up like a big bonfire.

[PromoTheRobot]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

id love to see the business argument why this is so necessary. 
 

 

 
 

 

 

As @Kirby Jackson so eloquently explains it, you can't significantly increase prices in the same stadium, even with a renovation.  A new stadium would allow the Bills to establish a new higher price structure. Will it price some fans out? You bet. But our ticket price is the REAL stadium issue Goodell is taking about. And "competitive" in this case means revenues competitive with the rest of the league.

 

[Lurker]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Fair enough, to the list Lurker posted, but then where would we find an actual list of operating income and finances per team?

 

Not going to.  Only the Packers have to report anything publically.

 

The Forbes list may be suspect, but I'll bet it's 85% right.  And yes, excluding debt service is a biggie.  But my point is that the Bills don't have to bend over and say "Thank you sir, may I have another!" as much as the boogieman reputation the NFL tries to promote.   Think more carnival magician from Kansas, less Wizard of Oz.

 

The Bills are doing what they can to drive the process (hiring a planning consultant, speaking with stakeholders).   But if they decide to renovate New Era rather than build a new stadium, I don't think the other owners will have much recourse to penalize them (my opinion).   

 

Might they get less revenue sharing at some nebulous point down the road?   Maybe.   But does that take them off the board?    Hardly, IMO...

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Lurker

[loyal2dagame]

7 minutes ago, buffalobillsfootball said:

Team is not going anywhere.

• It may or may not move from its current location
  • Everyone has an opinion about location
• Everyone has an opinion about tailgating
• The Pegula's would not have bought the team without a plan.
• Yes, this will be a public/private initiative.
  • The State should look no further to the HUGE cash cow in our backyard - the New York Power Authority. T
    • They are making a TON of money and should contribute.

And here is my opinion - you don't spend ANY additional money in Orchard Park.  If you want to play in the big leagues you have to pay. 

 

Build an all new state of the art Stadium/Convention Center downtown near Canalside.

 

I don't buy the BS about downtown not having the infrastructure to support a stadium - the city was once 4 times in size and population. 

 

There are also multiple modes of transportation to the City v Orchard Park.

 

You don't spend $500M on an old stadium in Orchard Park - which could not be further than the fastest growing area in the region: Southern Ontario.

 

 

 

I agree on your first two points, however........

 

point #3: Build an all new state of the art Stadium/Convention Center downtown near Canalside.

There are better things to develop near the waterfront than a stadium-

 

point #4: I don't buy the BS about downtown not having the infrastructure to support a stadium - the city was once 4 times in size and population. 

The city doesn't have the infrastructure in place. When Buffalo had "4 times in size and population", It was at a time when families had 1 car. Not 2-4. People actually used buses back then. You do have the 2 lane Skyway leading to Rte 5 and the 3 lane 190 as express routes out of the city. And if a new stadium is near Canalside, there will be huge traffic backups to get to the 33. What do you do when wind or blowing snow closes the skyway on a game day? Everything comes to a stand still. This doesn't work.

 

point #5: There are also multiple modes of transportation to the City v Orchard Park.

??? seems like the same transportation beside the metro rail.

 

point #6: You don't spend $500M on an old stadium in Orchard Park - which could not be further than the fastest growing area in the region: Southern Ontario.

I agree that New Era shouldn't have money sunk into it. But, Orchard Park is less than 10 minutes from downtown Buffalo. 10 minutes isn't going to make or break Southern Ontario Bills/NFL fans.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

45 minutes ago, GG said:

 

Good luck with that!   Forbes is the only public source, but you have to pick through the numbers to get the real story.   

 

If anything, the Forbes numbers prove the point that high revenue, big market teams will play hard ball in the next round of negotiations because now they are bringing in much less money home than the teams they are subsidizing.

 

So, could you walk us through it to illustrate the real story? 

 

26 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

As @Kirby Jackson so eloquently explains it, you can't significantly increase prices in the same stadium, even with a renovation.  A new stadium would allow the Bills to establish a new higher price structure. Will it price some fans out? You bet. But our ticket price is the REAL stadium issue Goodell is taking about. And "competitive" in this case means revenues competitive with the rest of the league.

 

 

OK, but according to the Forbes list that was shared....we're like #18, average.  So what about #19 through 32, what they got to do to compete?

[dpberr]

The NFL owners who have put their own money and coersion of local governments  into financing stadiums won't stop shaking down the Pegulas. The way they see it, The Pegulas are  billionaires who aren't pulling their weight. 

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by dpberr

[YoloinOhio]

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

Careful choice of wording there by the Pegs....

[Lurker]

24 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

OK, but according to the Forbes list that was shared....we're like #18, average.  So what about #19 through 32, what they got to do to compete?

 

What the Forbes numbers don't show is the debt service that each team pays on their stadium.    Ralph (and now Pegs) don't pay any--Its how Ralph survived all those years against the large market teams.     

 

Now you've got a lot of teams (as GG pointed out) building these grand palaces and having to cover their debt nut--which makes them want to squeeze as much revenue as they can from every source possible.   

 

To which I say...Nuts!    They made their choices--don't ask fans from other cities to pony up and help them carry that debt load....

 

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Lurker

[LB48]

4 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

id love to see the business argument why this is so necessary. 
 

 

 
 

 

I'd like to see that too!  A 55,000 domed stadium would necessitate much higher seat prices and I don't know if Erie County can support that.

[BuffaloRebound]

The NFL needs Buffalo just as much as Buffalo needs the NFL.  There’s only a handful of authentic hardcore fan bases like Buffalo.  

[stevewin]

4 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

Well in that case, let's get some high level meetings going.  

I feel a Billboard is in order