CTE doctor turned salesman: the "selling" of CTE

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Interesting article in The Washington Post on how Bennet Omalu, who first described CTE in brain histopathology, has transformed himself into a bit of a shill or salesman:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/sports/cte-bennet-omalu/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

 

"A Ni­ger­ian American pathologist portrayed by Will Smith in the 2015 film, “Concussion,” Omalu is partly responsible for the most important sports story of the 21st century. Since 2005, when Omalu first reported finding widespread brain damage in a former NFL player, concerns about CTE have inspired a global revolution in concussion safety and fueled an ongoing existential crisis for America’s most popular sport. Omalu’s discovery — initially ignored and then attacked by NFL-allied doctors — inspired an avalanche of scientific research that forced the league to acknowledge a link between football and brain disease. "

 

but

 

"across the brain science community, there is wide consensus on one thing: Omalu, the man considered by many the public face of CTE research, routinely exaggerates his accomplishments and dramatically overstates the known risks of CTE and contact sports, fueling misconceptions about the disease, according to interviews with more than 50 experts in neurodegenerative disease and brain injuries, and a review of more than 100 papers from peer-reviewed medical journals.

Omalu did not discover CTE, nor did he name the disease. The alarming statistics he recites about contact sports are distorted, according to the author of the studies that produced those figures. And while Omalu cultivates a reputation as the global authority on CTE, it’s unclear whether he is diagnosing it correctly, according to several experts on the disease."

 

There's no doubt in my mind personally that CTE is real.  But drug abuse (both recreational and PED) and alcohol abuse also damage the brain.    I think there's a muddled picture of how each contribute in the case of many athletes.

[Sherlock Holmes]

What a surprise, a doctor a salesman?? You don't say....

[bbb]

[GunnerBill]

5 hours ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

What a surprise, a doctor a salesman?? You don't say....

 

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

[BigBillsFan]

31 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

 

Yes because the greatest advances to medicine have been done without the market, in fact socialized medicine is the biggest reason today for the advancement in science.

[Sundancer]

That's just his story and it is interesting.

 

Football still has a big problem and it's real. 

[stuvian]

Goodell and his PR flaks are still out to get him. I'm sure an article about his degree being from Podunk State will follow. 

[aristocrat]

he claims he discovered it and named it...only he didn't. 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Yes because the greatest advances to medicine have been done without the market, in fact socialized medicine is the biggest reason today for the advancement in science.

 

There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation.

[Don Otreply]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

So very true, it is yet another case of, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should,  profit comes hand in hand with greed, and becomes tenuous simultaneously,  greed is the biggest down fall of capitalism, always has been, it’s the elephant in the room and no one wants to talk about it, and because of that, we get the 1 percent controlling almost all the wealth we the people have created, it certainly is food for thought, for those who are not afraid to think about it. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

 

I see this as a complete non-sequitor myself. 

Physician/scientists turning more interested in PR than scientific veracity have emerged in countries with publically-funded health care systems.  I will not give examples due to not wishing to further derail the thread, but he shares a first name with a recently retired QB whose last name rhymes with *****!! and believe me, you in Great Britain should blush beet-juice red over sharing citizenship.

 

1 hour ago, Don Otreply said:

So very true, it is yet another case of, just because you can, doesn’t mean you should,  profit comes hand in hand with greed, and becomes tenuous simultaneously,  greed is the biggest down fall of capitalism, always has been, it’s the elephant in the room and no one wants to talk about it, and because of that, we get the 1 percent controlling almost all the wealth we the people have created, it certainly is food for thought, for those who are not afraid to think about it. 

 

Think about it all you like, but if you want to continue in this vein, take the elevator to the LL and turn right - PPP at your service.

2 hours ago, stuvian said:

Goodell and his PR flaks are still out to get him. I'm sure an article about his degree being from Podunk State will follow. 

 

I wouldn't have posted the link if I weren't persuaded this was in no way a Goodell/PR hit job.

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

I see this as a complete non-sequitor myself. 

Physician/scientists turning more interested in PR than scientific veracity have emerged in countries with publically-funded health care systems.  I will not give examples due to not wishing to further derail the thread, but he shares a first name with a recently retired QB whose last name rhymes with *****!! and believe me, you in Great Britain should blush beet-juice red over sharing citizenship.

 

 

Think about it all you like, but if you want to continue in this vein, take the elevator to the LL and turn right - PPP at your service.

 

I wouldn't have posted the link if I weren't persuaded this was in no way a Goodell/PR hit job.

 

Nor do I have any desire to derail the thread further, but I stand by my original statement. The more you introduce the market the more you introduce the profit incentive. I'll leave it there - I avoid PPP for good reason.

[BarleyNY]

4 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Yes because the greatest advances to medicine have been done without the market, in fact socialized medicine is the biggest reason today for the advancement in science.

In reality most medical breakthroughs and advancements are made by researchers at universities, not private companies.  And most of the funding for research is from government grants.  Companies are great at monetizing the advancements, but it’s rare that the people who did the actual work get much out of it financially. 

[Buddo]

As with many things in life, it doesn't have to be one way or the other, yet finding the right balance is incredibly difficult, due to political philosophies and priorities.

 

'Socialist' countries, like Cuba, and  number of the old eastern bloc countries, are still world leaders in certain types of therapy and care, often developed because they didn't have access to the same level of pharmaceuticals. Which is by no means a bad thing.

 

'Big Pharma' has had plenty of success in innovation, although often that is based off of post graduate research in heinz variety of educational facilities. They have also had an often dubious track record where it comes to ensuring that all the relevant testing procedures have been done (and followed).

 

It has also been the case with different 'Big Pharma' companies, that they will bleed every last cent from wherever, seeking to protect patents rather than human lives. 

 

As to the OP, I'm somewhat ambivalent about the individual. Fact is, there is a problem with CTE, in pretty much any contact sport. Sometimes it takes an individual to make a song and dance about these types of things, for the world to sit up and take notice. 

 

I'm eminently unqualified to comment as to the accuracy of his diagnosis/conclusions/claims, but they are definitely based in reality, unlike much of what we see and hear these days. ;(

[TroutDog]

The article is more of a knock against Omalu than CTE, itself. He’s cashing in and that’s his right (whether you believe it or not). 
 

Having gone through two neurosurgeries, my surgeon and I discussed CTE multiple times and it is absolutely real and 100% caused by repeated blows to the head (per them). We also discussed the drug and alcohol abuse and his immediate response was, “Would the otherwise successful athletes be doing that if not for pain?” Seemed like a fair general question and argument. 
 

Personally, I wish there was a way to stop this in contact sports. Alas, there isn’t. I do, however, wish Omalu would tighten up his argument and stick to the facts. Like it or not, he is the face of CTE to many people. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

4 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

The article is more of a knock against Omalu than CTE, itself. He’s cashing in and that’s his right (whether you believe it or not). 
 

Having gone through two neurosurgeries, my surgeon and I discussed CTE multiple times and it is absolutely real and 100% caused by repeated blows to the head (per them). We also discussed the drug and alcohol abuse and his immediate response was, “Would the otherwise successful athletes be doing that if not for pain?” Seemed like a fair general question and argument. 
 

Personally, I wish there was a way to stop this in contact sports. Alas, there isn’t. I do, however, wish Omalu would tighten up his argument and stick to the facts. Like it or not, he is the face of CTE to many people. 

 

Yes, absolutely.  CTE is real.  And it's Omalu's right to cash in, absolutely.

 

The question is whether he's distorting data or fudging scientific facts while so doing, which would be to the long-term detriment of efforts to understand and ameliorate CTE

[BigBillsFan]

11 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

In reality most medical breakthroughs and advancements are made by researchers at universities, not private companies.  And most of the funding for research is from government grants.  Companies are great at monetizing the advancements, but it’s rare that the people who did the actual work get much out of it financially. 

 

I'm not disputing advancements come from universities in the realm of research, but to think equipment (as one example) comes from universities isn't true. Universities focus on research, their methodology of research comes from equipment (private), and most innovation comes from private companies.

 

I'm not going to push for Big Pharma as the mode to heal the world, in fact I don't like it. Journals of medicine are forced to push their "studies". Still they've made advances no university is near producing.

 

The point is it's not a clean "private bad" "public good". I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry, but to make it in a tight window of "private companies" is silly as most of the funding for universities does not come from itself, but manufacturing and innovation. Poor countries for example have no such innovation for that reason, and poor socialist countries like Cuba are proof you need both.

Edited January 27, 2020 by BigBillsFan

[machine gun kelly]

Working first clinically, then on the business side of medicine, doctors are businessmen as much as clinicians.  I don’t fault them for it as many are just trying to find a way to help more people.  Yes, some are scheisters, but many more are caring persons.  As far as CTE, I believe it is real, and am lucky with three concussions in a car accident and wrestling, I’ve not had any symptoms.

 

My son asked me who originally played football, but made himself an awesome lax player making it to team Florida, and eventually a full ride to a university.  He had his 4th concussion, and asked me what should I do?  I hopefully being a good dad, put it right back on him and asked what logically should he do?  He said I should quit.  I then said, well you knew what to do, but was looking for confirmation.  I said, Ian you didn’t need my confirmation.  I raised you right along with you’re mom and you have good common sense.   Know when to hang it up.

 

What I worry about, is not a couple of concussions, but these lineman who play a long career, and hit their helmets over and over again.  That is the greater concern with hundreds, maybe thousands of hits routinely.  I feel they are at the greatest risk.

[TroutDog]

27 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Yes, absolutely.  CTE is real.  And it's Omalu's right to cash in, absolutely.

 

The question is whether he's distorting data or fudging scientific facts while so doing, which would be to the long-term detriment of efforts to understand and ameliorate CTE

Not sure if they completely made that argument in the article. They certainly made a fair argument to question what he’s saying...and he isn’t a neurosurgeon so seems obvious. 
 

It becomes dangerous to simply discard his work, though, in my opinion, as there is a tremendous amount of money surrounding this. 

[BarleyNY]

27 minutes ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

I'm not disputing advancements come from universities in the realm of research, but to think equipment (as one example) comes from universities isn't true. Universities focus on research, their methodology of research comes from equipment (private), and most innovation comes from private companies.

 

I'm not going to push for Big Pharma as the mode to heal the world, in fact I don't like it. Journals of medicine are forced to push their "studies". Still they've made advances no university is near producing.

 

The point is it's not a clean "private bad" "public good". I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry, but to make it in a tight window of "private companies" is silly as most of the funding for universities does not come from itself, but manufacturing and innovation. Poor countries for example have no such innovation for that reason, and poor socialist countries like Cuba are proof you need both.

I had a coworker who came from Pharma sales.  We were working for a god awful company in the aerospace industry at the time.  It gouged the hell out of the government and airlines and they treated everyone outside of top management as poorly as their customers.  Worst job of my life by far.  He said his Pharma job was worse.  There was zero effort by that company to help people and that their strategy was to keep people on maintenance medication for as long as possible.  Specific strategy for diabetics was to keep them on medication their whole lives despite it meaning gradually declining health and eventual death.  Any efforts to find something to actually cure the patients was avoided. 
 

I’m not one to downplay the positive effects of capitalism.  It has tremendous value to society.  My issues come from the lack of true free markets brought about by having companies and industries that are large (wealthy) enough to impact laws that limit competition and innovation - as well as the legal system that allows that to happen.  The result is not true capitalism.  I also see healthcare as having such importance to society that at least basic care should be available to every citizen and that special safety measures should be in place to eliminate issues like what I mentioned above.

 

Thats my 2¢ on the matter.  I’ll leave it there unless there’s a specific question. 

[BringBackFlutie]

1 hour ago, BigBillsFan said:

...I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry...

 

?

[Sherlock Holmes]

40 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I had a coworker who came from Pharma sales.  We were working for a god awful company in the aerospace industry at the time.  It gouged the hell out of the government and airlines and they treated everyone outside of top management as poorly as their customers.  Worst job of my life by far.  He said his Pharma job was worse.  There was zero effort by that company to help people and that their strategy was to keep people on maintenance medication for as long as possible.  Specific strategy for diabetics was to keep them on medication their whole lives despite it meaning gradually declining health and eventual death.  Any efforts to find something to actually cure the patients was avoided. 
 

I’m not one to downplay the positive effects of capitalism.  It has tremendous value to society.  My issues come from the lack of true free markets brought about by having companies and industries that are large (wealthy) enough to impact laws that limit competition and innovation - as well as the legal system that allows that to happen.  The result is not true capitalism.  I also see healthcare as having such importance to society that at least basic care should be available to every citizen and that special safety measures should be in place to eliminate issues like what I mentioned above.

 

Thats my 2¢ on the matter.  I’ll leave it there unless there’s a specific question. 

Ding ding ding, we have a winner!! This is what medicine is about in general, now emergency medicine is different and necessary but other than that it is 100% about $$$. You know, keeping people on as many pharmaceuticals for life as possible when they are way worse for your health than not managing symptoms of health problems that are completely reversible.

 

Worse allopathy has everyone brainwashed into thinking they have all the answers and are looking out for everyone's best interests. Keep putting these guys up on pedestals and bowing down to them, they are the heroes and saviors of humanity after all!!! No wonder these people have such huge egos, they go completely unchecked with almost everyone defending them while having no clue of what they are talking about, just blindly following along because they are ignorant to science?

[Mr. WEO]

Anyone surprised by THIS guy ending up at this point, raise hour hand.

 

This isn’t about Doctor and “the market”.  It’s about a man who has since this all started been an opportunist and a bit of a sham.

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

6 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

 

Yes because the greatest advances to medicine have been done without the market, in fact socialized medicine is the biggest reason today for the advancement in science.

 

If you mean government funding of university research., then yes it is. That's how most breakthroughs are made.

Edited January 27, 2020 by PromoTheRobot

[Meatloaf63]

4 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation.

Nobody has furthered the field of “we are going to make the choice of what treatment your child can receive even if it means their death” than the British health care system that’s for sure?

[billsfan89]

5 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation.

 

The rate of innovation from the National Institute of health (the US tax payer funded drug research program) is greater than the US private sector. Even France and other nations with socialized medical research innovate at rates at or above the US private sector 

[babulator]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

 

It's pretty terrifying when the collective decides whats best for you. Even more so when they control the things you need.

 

No thanks, I'm not willing to cede my health care and well being to the state. It's mind boggling to me that anyone would.

[Big Turk]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I know there is a risk of this turning overtly political but this is what happens when you turn healthcare over to the market.

 

I don't know about that....but I know what happens when you turn it over to the government and its universal healthcare like in Canada...you end up paying an assload in taxes and still have to come to the US and pay for procedures out of pocket because there are ridiculous waiting lists of 6 months to a year or more for basic procedures to get done.

[GaryPinC]

For me as a scientist (cardiology research), the real problem is when scientists (and doctors) become activists.  Kind of like when our "free press" jumps bandwagon on allowing their personal views to cloud their objectivity in reporting.

 

There should be no doubt CTE is real.  The real question should be how much of a problem is this?  I can't emphasize enough the vast majority of the data was hugely biased with professional football players who clearly had neurological-based problems before being enrolled in the study.  It was not an open sampling of every NFL player.  It was not an open sampling of athletes.

 

It is perfectly welcome to be overcautious as the research develops, my only hope is that the research will address the question of actual risk in ALL football athletes (and all athletes) and not just elucidate the disorder with scare tactics thrown in.  

 

I have coached both my kids through youth sports and anecdotally, there was clearly an individual susceptibility to concussion in my opinion.  Around 1 million kids a year play high school football.  I played high school football.  Am I going to develop CTE, especially given I don't think I've ever sustained a concussion and definitely never experienced anything like post-concussion syndrome?

[Malazan]

4 hours ago, BigBillsFan said:

The point is it's not a clean "private bad" "public good". I don't like a lot of the private parts of the medical industry, but to make it in a tight window of "private companies" is silly as most of the funding for universities does not come from itself, but manufacturing and innovation. Poor countries for example have no such innovation for that reason, and poor socialist countries like Cuba are proof you need both.

 

I'm curious. What are some of the big advancements that came about from US companies without using public money?

Edited January 27, 2020 by jeremy2020

[DrDawkinstein]

15 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

There's no doubt in my mind personally that CTE is real.  But drug abuse (both recreational and PED) and alcohol abuse also damage the brain.    I think there's a muddled picture of how each contribute in the case of many athletes.

 

That, and the typical American view of mental health issues being perceived as "weak", when most of these guys (like Junior Seau) are actually just depressed because they get shut out from the only thing they've had in life at like 35 years old and dont know what to do next. They lose their friends, they lose their purpose, they lose the spotlight... after they spent their entire lives being propped up as king sh!t.

 

I often think of when Frank Gifford passed away recently. He died at 85 years old, and there was a story soon afterward about how people wanted his brain examined for CTE as the possible cause of death. Umm, how about he was 8-freaking-5!! If anything that would prove CTE doesnt harm you.

 

I agree it's a real thing, but I don't think it's as bad as people want to make it out to be.

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans?

[bbb]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

That, and the typical American view of mental health issues being perceived as "weak", when most of these guys (like Junior Seau) are actually just depressed because they get shut out from the only thing they've had in life at like 35 years old and dont know what to do next. They lose their friends, they lose their purpose, they lose the spotlight... after they spent their entire lives being propped up as king sh!t.

 

I often think of when Frank Gifford passed away recently. He died at 85 years old, and there was a story soon afterward about how people wanted his brain examined for CTE as the possible cause of death. Umm, how about he was 8-freaking-5!! If anything that would prove CTE doesnt harm you.

 

I agree it's a real thing, but I don't think it's as bad as people want to make it out to be.

 

Nailed it.  And, they didn't just want Gifford's brain examined.  They did do it - and said he had CTE!  Friggin ridiculous. 

 

7 minutes ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans?

 

That's the question - I never see it addressed.  

[BuffaloBill963]

7 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

There has been plenty of innovation and medical advancement in the UK healthcare sector since it was "socialised". Creating a market where doctors have to act in a grey areas as both consultants and salespeople is not the best way to advance the case for objective, evidence based medical research and innovation.

Haha go peddle your bs in the non football threads 

[KD in CA]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

 

I'm curious. What are some of the big advancements that came about from US companies without using public money?

 

Viagra!!

[Sherlock Holmes]

6 hours ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Nobody has furthered the field of “we are going to make the choice of what treatment your child can receive even if it means their death” than the British health care system that’s for sure?

You mean the good ol' USA??? When else is a modality allowed to rule over juridiction of parents other than dictatorships, or socialism??? These people have been Gods wayyyy too long... sorry I know the game... Chemotherapy for Rheumatoid arthritis in children?!?!?!?!?! WTF?!?!?! Wake up people!!!! 

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

Haha go peddle your bs in the non football threads 

Really? See what I mean??? Bro do you even Medicine? 

[Sherlock Holmes]

4 hours ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

How many regular people (non football players) have CTE? Everyone is obsessed with the pct of football players they found CTE in...but what is the relation to the norm? Does my mailman have it? Does sleeping on a pillow give it to you? Do we know CTE is rare in humans?

TBI =CTE it's not rocket science...  You smash your brain up then you gotta deal with the consequences...

4 hours ago, bbb said:

 

Nailed it.  And, they didn't just want Gifford's brain examined.  They did do it - and said he had CTE!  Friggin ridiculous. 

 

 

That's the question - I never see it addressed.  

Addressed by whom is the problem.... DRs??? What about unbiased individuals who also understand science?

8 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Anyone surprised by THIS guy ending up at this point, raise hour hand.

 

This isn’t about Doctor and “the market”.  It’s about a man who has since this all started been an opportunist and a bit of a sham.

 

 

Most likey anybody with an opportunity usually ceases it...

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

TBI =CTE it's not rocket science...  You smash your brain up then you gotta deal with the consequences...

Addressed by whom is the problem.... DRs??? What about unbiased individuals who also understand science?

Most likey anybody with an opportunity usually ceases it...

he should cease immediately 

[MJS]

21 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

There's no doubt in my mind personally that CTE is real.  But drug abuse (both recreational and PED) and alcohol abuse also damage the brain.    I think there's a muddled picture of how each contribute in the case of many athletes.

Bingo. And any time an athlete does anything remotely strange people point to CTE, even when the known symptoms and side effects have nothing to do with those actions.

[MJS]

7 hours ago, billsfan89 said:

 

The rate of innovation from the National Institute of health (the US tax payer funded drug research program) is greater than the US private sector. Even France and other nations with socialized medical research innovate at rates at or above the US private sector 

What metric is used to calculate that. Do you have sources? I'm not doubting you, I'm just curious. I work in economic development and that would be interesting data to look at. Do they break it down by states also?