Buzzergate update (Again) Update: Beltran, Cora, Hinch & Luhnow (fired) for illegale sign stealing - compare to NFL & The Patsies

[snafu]

6 hours ago, Success said:

They say cheaters never win, and winners never cheat - but those things are wrong.  It's like when Newt asks Ripley why parents tell their kids there aren't monsters, when there are.

 

Cheaters DO win.  This saddens me.

 

 

Cheaters are losers whether they win the game or not. That’s why cheaters never win. 

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Not true.  Choking up is a preference.  I never choked up because I didn’t like the feel.  

 

It is absolutely true.  What you did in tee ball isn't relevant.

[May Day 10]

MLB players dont normally choke up, and if they do, its only a couple players who may do it in extreme situations.

[Royale with Cheese]

22 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

It is absolutely true.  What you did in tee ball isn't relevant.

 

I'll give you something to choke up about.

[CLTbills]

11 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

My boss is an avid Sox fan and he feels the exact same way you do.

Also a Sox fan... And I'm 100% ok with them cutting ties with Cora.

 

I'm not going to act like a Pats* fan and defend my team's cheating. If they cheated, then they cheated and they should be punished. If you're truly a fan of the sport, this should be your position.

[LabattBlue]

After Hurricane Harvey devastated Houston in August of 2017, and with the Astros having a likeable team(IMO), I really enjoyed seeing them win.  
 

Now...F*** them!   
 

???

Edited January 17, 2020 by LabattBlue

[PromoTheRobot]

9 hours ago, arcane said:

I'm not giving the Pats a pass. I am wondering why people like you, in this discussion, are siding with the guy that literally googled a picture of Tom Brady and made up a story on the spot about his knee brace.

 

this actively makes it harder to be taken seriously going after the pats for stuff they actually do.

 

And whenever I point out that too many posters pull stuff out of their ass and stray far from the plane of reality in talking about what are actually serious issues, I get a million quotes that effectively say "ur wrong Pats bad" and nobody notices that knee brace guy is a loon making the collective fan base look dumber and actively hurting the cause that is taking the pats' skeeviness seriously.

 

That's what people do when those in charge of enforcing the rules don't. Goodell's handling of the Patriots is a joke. So the Patriots deserve all the ridicule we give them.

[Franco_92]

2 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

That's what people do when those in charge of enforcing the rules don't. Goodell's handling of the Patriots is a joke. So the Patriots deserve all the ridicule we give them.

That's not ridicule, it's garbage that should be called out as such. This board should be better than that.

10 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

I guarantee their system is similar to what you described. Flutie outted them

You’re not the authority on the ‘plane of reality’ buddy that’s what’s so annoying about people like you. You don’t decide what’s crazy and what’s not. It’s called following the evidence and that includes brainstorming theories. That helps get to the truth. 

Googling a picture of Tom Brady, making up a story about a knee brace, and demanding to be taken as seriously as the actual stuff the Pats did, is conspiracy nut thinking and nothing more. It's pathetic. It's not "brainstorming a theory." 

Edited January 17, 2020 by arcane

[May Day 10]

4 hours ago, May Day 10 said:

 

In fairness to me, i did not come up with it.  I have a good friend who has been howling this at the moon for years and we kind of laugh him off.  I never even mentioned it in the hundreds of anti-patriots threads.  Yesterday I did a 180 on my friend's theory.  

 

The Astros and Patriots are very similar, and I said so long before the cheating allegations surfaced.  There is a lot to admire.  Every organizational detail is geared toward winning and in many ways they have altered their leagues/sports.  Unfortunately, with this they push the line as far as possible to gain an as advantage, whether its creating a system to optimize psi on footballs, espionage, or live communication.

 

I do not think it is crazy to think brady has a buzzer of some sort to alert him of pressure, blitz, where the safety goes, etc.  The guy "guesses" and has guessed right with uncanny ability.  Him and Edelman were like 42-1 at home before the miami game.  That doesnt happen in the NFL, and Brady/Edelman are far from Curry and Durant.

 

It has always been written off that Brady "prepares".  I cant buy that.  Nobody else does?

 

 

[Jauronimo]

12 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Not to mention, he's not choking up on the bat.  99.9% of the time a 5'1" batter would be choking up on a guy who throws gas.

 

If Altuve choked up on the bat even an inch he wouldn't be able to reach the strike zone.  

[Jauronimo]

11 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

also don't forget about this bullshittery

 

 

 

Why would you put a buzzer on the tip of bat?  Wood isn't exactly a great conductor and all these guys wear gloves. Could you feel anything that way?

[Reed83HOF]

1 minute ago, Jauronimo said:

Why would you put a buzzer on the tip of bat?  Wood isn't exactly a great conductor and all these guys wear gloves. Could you feel anything that way?

Who the hell knows.. more players are complaining about it today = MLB still has a big issue, even more so right now, considering that their own players are still keeping this in the press and are pissed about it

[GG]

3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Why would you put a buzzer on the tip of bat?  Wood isn't exactly a great conductor and all these guys wear gloves. Could you feel anything that way?

Why would you think that?  I think hardwood is a great conductor of vibration.   Ever live below someone walking in high heels?

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, GG said:

Why would you think that?  I think hardwood is a great conductor of vibration.   Ever live below someone walking in high heels?

If they all have wearable bandaids underneath their shirts buzzing directly on their skin, taping a foreign object to your bat sounds stupid.  

[Tisker A Tasker]

On 1/13/2020 at 4:01 PM, somnus00 said:

Wonder how the Dodgers and their fans feel about all this.

 

I'm a Dodger fan.  It sucks.  I would have loved to have celebrated one or both of these championships with my dad - who saw them play at Ebbets Field. 

 

The good news is that my dad is super healthy and the Dodgers are still really good. Let's hope they put it all together this year!

[GG]

Just now, Jauronimo said:

If they all have wearable bandaids underneath their shirts buzzing directly on their skin, taping a foreign object to your bat sounds stupid.  

Direct contact with skin is clearly better, but maybe the bat buzzer is less conspicuous and you can have better electronics inside the bat.  

[Reed83HOF]

3 minutes ago, GG said:

Why would you think that?  I think hardwood is a great conductor of vibration.   Ever live below someone walking in high heels?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-mlb-pitcher-jack-mcdowell-alleges-80s-white-sox-tony-la-russa-cheated-with-camera/ar-BBZ3W51?ocid=st

 

McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming.

"I'm going to whistle-blow this thing now, because I'm getting tired of this crap," McDowell told the station.

 

"He was also the head of the first team ... with people doing steroids," McDowell said, referencing La Russa's decade-long stint as manager of the Oakland A's, which included managing infamous steroid users Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. "Yet he's still in the game making half a million. No one's gonna go after that."

 

 

"This stuff's getting old, where they target certain guys and let other people off the hook," McDowell said. " ... Everybody who's been around the game knows all this stuff."

 

McDowell's comments on the '80s White Sox came as he explained that illegal sign-stealing has been happening for decades, but that players, managers and MLB itself have collectively decided to look the other way, much like the steroid era.

"Nobody wants to throw anybody under the bus," he said.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/17/cc-sabathia-keeps-getting-angrier-over-astros-cheating-dont-give-a-f-k/

 

“F–king ’17, we should have won the World Series,’’ Sabathia said during an episode of his R2C2 podcast with Ryan Ruocco released Thursday. “I don’t care what nobody says. And now that this happened, nobody can ever f–king tell me that we wasn’t gonna win it. We should have won! There’s no way you can tell me we weren’t better than them. I don’t give a f–k what nobody says.”

 

 

[Meatloaf63]

52 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

 

If it as simple as preparation, almost everyone would be capable of it. No way all the continued success happened without cheating....

[BuffaloBill963]

1 hour ago, arcane said:

That's not ridicule, it's garbage that should be called out as such. This board should be better than that.

Googling a picture of Tom Brady, making up a story about a knee brace, and demanding to be taken as seriously as the actual stuff the Pats did, is conspiracy nut thinking and nothing more. It's pathetic. It's not "brainstorming a theory." 

Conspiracy nut thinking?‍♂️ Dude you’re a loser

[Reed83HOF]

 

 

[apuszczalowski]

I think alot of the differences between this and the NFL/Pats is the sport itself. baseball is viewed as a sport where many of the fans are purists and want to keep it traditional and old school. Technology is pushed aside to keep things more human. They could have improved the sport by having cameras and computers call balls and strikes but many fight it because they want to keep the human element of having someone behind the plate make hundreds of judgement calls a game. Seeing this unfold where it's found technology was used to cheat has people upset. Football has been more progressive in allowing technology in to the game and some have viewed the Pats cheating as being closer to skirting the line of what's acceptable and not acceptable. There is a long standing Commissioner in place who's been more worried about the issue of players in domestic violence situations compared to a new commissioner taking over a league that's already been through a huge steroid scandal that was handled a bit light.

[SinceThe70s]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mlb/former-mlb-pitcher-jack-mcdowell-alleges-80s-white-sox-tony-la-russa-cheated-with-camera/ar-BBZ3W51?ocid=st

 

McDowell said the White Sox had a camera zoomed in on opposing catchers and a light in an outfield Gatorade sign that could be controlled from the manager's office and would presumably let hitters know which pitches were coming.

"I'm going to whistle-blow this thing now, because I'm getting tired of this crap," McDowell told the station.

 

"He was also the head of the first team ... with people doing steroids," McDowell said, referencing La Russa's decade-long stint as manager of the Oakland A's, which included managing infamous steroid users Jose Canseco and Mark McGwire. "Yet he's still in the game making half a million. No one's gonna go after that."

 

 

"This stuff's getting old, where they target certain guys and let other people off the hook," McDowell said. " ... Everybody who's been around the game knows all this stuff."

 

McDowell's comments on the '80s White Sox came as he explained that illegal sign-stealing has been happening for decades, but that players, managers and MLB itself have collectively decided to look the other way, much like the steroid era.

"Nobody wants to throw anybody under the bus," he said.

https://nypost.com/2020/01/17/cc-sabathia-keeps-getting-angrier-over-astros-cheating-dont-give-a-f-k/

 

“F–king ’17, we should have won the World Series,’’ Sabathia said during an episode of his R2C2 podcast with Ryan Ruocco released Thursday. “I don’t care what nobody says. And now that this happened, nobody can ever f–king tell me that we wasn’t gonna win it. We should have won! There’s no way you can tell me we weren’t better than them. I don’t give a f–k what nobody says.”

 

 

 

This is quickly devolving into a #himtoo movement.

[JoPoy88]

1 hour ago, GG said:

Direct contact with skin is clearly better, but maybe the bat buzzer is less conspicuous and you can have better electronics inside the bat.  

Hollowing out and wiring up the inside of a baseball bat seems an incredibly stupid way to cheat since bats are prone to, you know, splinter and shatter from time to time. Don’t get me wrong, I think all these guys should face long, long suspensions but some of these theories are now veering into the absurd.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, apuszczalowski said:

I think alot of the differences between this and the NFL/Pats is the sport itself. baseball is viewed as a sport where many of the fans are purists and want to keep it traditional and old school. Technology is pushed aside to keep things more human. They could have improved the sport by having cameras and computers call balls and strikes but many fight it because they want to keep the human element of having someone behind the plate make hundreds of judgement calls a game. Seeing this unfold where it's found technology was used to cheat has people upset. Football has been more progressive in allowing technology in to the game and some have viewed the Pats cheating as being closer to skirting the line of what's acceptable and not acceptable. There is a long standing Commissioner in place who's been more worried about the issue of players in domestic violence situations compared to a new commissioner taking over a league that's already been through a huge steroid scandal that was handled a bit light.

Baseball also has a storied and celebrated history of cheating.  Pitchers have written books about how they broke the rules with spitters, nail files, grease, you name it.  Stealing signals and whistling pitches was another time honored tradition of the game until a few days ago.  

 

Did the phrase "if you aint cheating you aint trying" originate in baseball?  I don't get all the outrage now that these practices have gone to the next level.  

[CommonCents]

6 hours ago, CLTbills said:

Also a Sox fan... And I'm 100% ok with them cutting ties with Cora.

 

I'm not going to act like a Pats* fan and defend my team's cheating. If they cheated, then they cheated and they should be punished. If you're truly a fan of the sport, this should be your position.

Same. Never like that little rat looking manager anyways. I’m not surprised how he acted. 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[syhuang]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

21 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

Who the hell knows.. more players are complaining about it today = MLB still has a big issue, even more so right now, considering that their own players are still keeping this in the press and are pissed about it

 

Notice the difference with the response to NFL players to spygate. A couple spoke out at the time, but nothing like now with MLB players.

 

This whole story of cheating in baseball is blowing up.  More teams implicated.  Trevor Bauer on the radio this week saying "70%" of pitchers doctor the ball all the time.  There have to be a lot of owners getting very sweaty right now about what comes out next (Tony LaRussa!).  These Yankee players have big balls complaining about the Astros, when they were fined (as were the Red Sox) for using their video taping room to steal signs in 2017.

  

Contrast this with the response of NFL owners.  They pretty much kept quiet.  It is likely because they knew more than one of them was vulnerable at the time to something being exposed.  As a group, they circled the wagons and kept mum.....there was/is too much money at stake for them, as a group, to acknowledge the game can be gamed.

 

This is going to get worse and the MLB owners.  They may wish they had Goodell to ServPro this whole mess.

[Doc]

On 1/16/2020 at 2:03 PM, Bray Wyatt said:

This would be the second time the Pats were caught

 

It's actually the 3rd time, that we know of.  The Cheaters were caught prior to the original Spygate breaking and warned not to do it.  They kept doing it, for obvious reasons.  And had been doing it since Belicheat got there. 

[Reed83HOF]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Notice the difference with the response to NFL players to spygate. A couple spoke out at the time, but nothing like now with MLB players.

 

This whole story of cheating in baseball is blowing up.  More teams implicated.  Trevor Bauer on the radio this week saying "70%" of pitchers doctor the ball all the time.  There have to be a lot of owners getting very sweaty right now about what comes out next (Tony LaRussa!).  These Yankee players have big balls complaining about the Astros, when they were fined (as were the Red Sox) for using their video taping room to steal signs in 2017.

  

Contrast this with the response of NFL owners.  They pretty much kept quiet.  It is likely because they knew more than one of them was vulnerable at the time to something being exposed.  As a group, they circled the wagons and kept mum.....there was/is too much money at stake for them, as a group, to acknowledge the game can be gamed.

 

This is going to get worse and the MLB owners.  They may wish they had Goodell to ServPro this whole mess.

 

The 2018 Red Sox punishment still has to come out as well. In regards to the Yankees, I am not trying to let blind homerism color my glasses in a shade of Rose, but they were fined and punished in 2017 for the phone incident and placed on warning with everyone else. I do find it hard to believe that they would be stupid enough to continue to skirt the rules in regards to cameras and tipping batters off on what pitches are being thrown while they have been the loudest complainers about the Asterisks cheating. Granted, I have been fooled by the utter stupidity of people and sports teams before, so it wouldn't necessarily surprise me either.

 

It's been so long ago, but LaRussa in the 80s - were cameras even good enough back then to steal signs from Center field to a catchers crotch? Also the record of the White Sox was not even good during this time period

 

 

I think I put the video up in here, but Jomboy  put together a video of Fliers using what is assumed to be pine tar last season to toss a no-hitter. When you watch the video, you really wonder why no one even caught what he was doing or questioned it, kind of like the "buzzer" flying off the end of the bat that the Astro went to pick up and put in his pocket - Ump should have grabbed it and it all would have been over right there, but I digress. Doctoring the ball has been around as long as sign stealing (without technology); spitters, grease balls, pine tar/resin, cutters have been used throughout the history- fans are more tolerant of that because it has always been in the game and part of the game. It's the technological part that is an issue.

 

The spygate videos themselves had to be so damning that they were destroyed, never released and brushed under the table. I still feel the correct thing to do would have been to sacrifice the NE franchise to fully root it all out; however there was a reason they didn't = means the people who were banned or received the harshest punishments would have singing like a canary and the entire league would be toast.

 

I'm still surprised how good the NBA was with framing their one rogue ref

 

[Reed83HOF]

 

[Gugny]

2 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

 

Not one reporter specifically asked him about the disparity of batting averages in 2017 between home and away.  They suck at their jobs.

[Foxx]

[Doc]

6 minutes ago, Foxx said:

 

They must have gotten that idea from the Cheaters.  Except the (extra) speaker is inside the helmet.

[Chaos]

7 minutes ago, Foxx said:

thats pretty funny .

[LabattBlue]

Next thing you know, the buzzers will be implanted under the skin. 

[TheFunPolice]

IMO this is why the NFL has been hesitant to do much about NE

 

Once the floodgates open it gets ugly for the sport.

[apuszczalowski]

9 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

IMO this is why the NFL has been hesitant to do much about NE

 

Once the floodgates open it gets ugly for the sport.

Although so far its only been ugly for 2 teams whos connection is through a coach thats believed to have orchestrated it.

[4merper4mer]

11 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

Next thing you know, the buzzers will be implanted under the skin. 

Something like that will happen.  Goalie sticks with force fields will be an NHL scandal in the 2249-50 season.

10 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

IMO this is why the NFL has been hesitant to do much about NE

 

Once the floodgates open it gets ugly for the sport.

Understandable but the punishment could be something unannounced if they were smart.  Allowing their entire OL to hold for a decade seems like a weird punishment.

[Mr. WEO]

"Beltran's Niece" is Incarcerated Bob.