Let's for a minute flip the Offense & Defense.... Where would the Bills be?

[Billsfan1972]

I get a lot of flack here for 100% concentrating on the Passing game & the Bills Offense.  I do it because QB is the most important position in football & the Bills drafted Allen to be their franchise QB.

 

Now McD took over a team that was 16th in Offense (Yards Gained) & have been 29th, 30th & currently 24th under his regime.

 

The QB they drafted as their future in terms of Passing Yards/Game (and please let's not talk about his running, which has been a surprise as no one expected it & has been great) has been 32nd & 29th in two seasons.  No 300 yard games (had to mention that?) either.

 

And again remember I am a HUGE JOSH ALLEN SUPPORTER.

 

The defense was 14th in 2016 & 26th 207, 2nd 2018 & 3rd 2019 (Yards allowed).....  

 

Here's the source.....

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2017/opp.htm

 

So let's pretend the Defense was decimated  (going from 16th to 29th, 30th & 24th) by McD & after a blip in 2017 the Offense was now a top 5 with their franchise QB (Allen), which is not a stretch seeing what Mahomes has done in KC, would the Bills not be way ahead (and frankly more fun to watch?)? BTW 2016 the Rams were 32nd on Offense & next year under McVay #1!!!!!  So it can be done.

 

 

The issue is & I keep repeating is with the way McD & Daboll handle the offense & the play calling, how is anyone confident that the Bills make that next step, and are you sure that the Bills defense will continue to be this good?

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Beast]

15 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

So let's pretend 

 

 

 

No.

[loyal2dagame]

If our offense jumped into the top 5, I billieve (see what i did there?) our defensive ranking would definitely take a hit. I'm not saying that the D would straight out suck, but a lot of chunk yards would be given up during garbage time which would drop the overall rankings of the defense.

 

The Bills would probably be the best team in the league under your scenario, even with the diminished defensive yards allowed stats.

[Patrick Duffy]

Probably still be 10-5

[Billsfan1972]

The point is there would too be a different perception of the team and it would be further ahead in my estimations.  

 

What's interesting is seeing the leaps KC, LA Rams, Baltimore & others can do with creative offensive minds.  

 

And by the way with a top three offense & being 100% sure of the QB going forward they'd be more fun to watch (except for those still mired in 60's football), attract free agents & yep national exposure too.....

 

Oops but that's not the Buffalo way.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[Scott7975]

I still think they are fun to watch and that's not because I am mired if 60's football.  Its because I feel like Allen can always pull that drive off even if sometimes he doesn't.

I don't need to see 300 yards games to be more entertained.  Just some more scores would suffice no matter how they got them.  Personally I am more entertained by tough fought battles and nail biters than I would be blowing teams out left and right.  If I were a Pats fan I would have been bored of that team long ago.  Why? Because I always know the outcome.  There really isn't much emotion involved.  In our games the emotions are like a roller coaster.  That's what makes the games fun IMO.

 

As for the rest... I believe its just part of the Allen development.  This is where the team is at right now.  The defense is way ahead of the offense right now so they game plan for that.   They play to their strengths.  Right now their strength is defense.  While I don't like it, I think as the offenses catches up and Allen improves we will see a shift. I still think Daboll could do a better job though.  I don't think he is a good coach.  Im tired of hearing that he is a good coach because "he schemed a guy open."  Yeah, they all do.

 

I think if the offense and defense flipped, we would be in no better position then we are in now.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Scott7975

[Formerly Allan in MD]

Where would the Bills be?  Confused!

[Gugny]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

And again remember I am a HUGE JOSH ALLEN SUPPORTER.

 

I don't think you and scores of others have the same definition of "supporter."

[Billsfan1972]

1 minute ago, Gugny said:

 

I don't think you and scores of others have the same definition of "supporter."

How so?  I think he is severely held back & badly coached.

 

I think the offense is a lot better then it shows.

 

The fact that every NFL team has thrown for 300 yards in each of 2017, 2018 & 2019 (except Arizona in 2018) pretty much tells you how this staff has handled the Bills offense since McD was signed.

[Augie]

38 minutes ago, Formerly Allan in MD said:

Where would the Bills be?  Confused!

 

As long as they remain in WNY I will be a fan.

 

Rex pushed the envelope, but here I am. 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

The point is there would too be a different perception of the team and it would be further ahead in my estimations.  

 

What's interesting is seeing the leaps KC, LA Rams, Baltimore & others can do with creative offensive minds.  

 

And by the way with a top three offense & being 100% sure of the QB going forward they'd be more fun to watch (except for those still mired in 60's football), attract free agents & yep national exposure too.....

 

Oops but that's not the Buffalo way.

We keep comparing with Baltimore, KC and LA Rams.. Besides having a creative offensive mind, they also have game breaking WRs, RB and most importantly the best OL in football.  I think thy make a huge difference

[Gugny]

41 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How so?  I think he is severely held back & badly coached.

 

I think the offense is a lot better then it shows.

 

The fact that every NFL team has thrown for 300 yards in each of 2017, 2018 & 2019 (except Arizona in 2018) pretty much tells you how this staff has handled the Bills offense since McD was signed.

 

The fact that this team has gone to the playoffs two of McDermott's three years pretty much tells me this staff has coached the TEAM pretty well.

 

This 300 yard game infatuation continues to boggle my mind.  Stafford and Rivers throw for 5000 yards every year ... and their teams suck.  Every year.

[Billsfan1972]

14 minutes ago, Gugny said:

 

The fact that this team has gone to the playoffs two of McDermott's three years pretty much tells me this staff has coached the TEAM pretty well.

 

This 300 yard game infatuation continues to boggle my mind.  Stafford and Rivers throw for 5000 yards every year ... and their teams suck.  Every year.

How every team in the NFL is capable of a 300 yard game except the Bills is what is mind boggling.

 

Rivers has made the playoffs countless times.  How about using Brady, Payton Manning, Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers instead?  Oh & Cam Newton made the SB after a lousy passing year too.  

 

Do the Bills know something that the other 31 teams don't as they're the only team incapable of it & now going on 3 years!!!!

 

 

25 minutes ago, ganesh said:

We keep comparing with Baltimore, KC and LA Rams.. Besides having a creative offensive mind, they also have game breaking WRs, RB and most importantly the best OL in football.  I think thy make a huge difference

So how come the Bills aren't able to?  How did the Rams go from 32nd to 1st in one year????   

 

I take it as a defender of the process jumping from 29th to 24th is spectacular? 

 

Yes I expected a huge jump this year & that Allen would be given the opportunity to excel.....  Again I blame it on the coaching & play calling.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Billsfan1972

[DuckyBoys]

Most games this team does not need to pass for 300 yards or score buckets of points  However it would be nice if the coaching staff acted like that was a possibility.  I swear were dead set on getting to 20 points each game.

[Billsfan1972]

3 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

Most games this team does not need to pass for 300 yards or score buckets of points  However it would be nice if the coaching staff acted like that was a possibility.  I swear were dead set on getting to 20 points each game.

Now we can agree on something!!!!!!?

[Locomark]

Yardage stats stink in general. Good team often get far ahead and then give up yards when the game is out of hand. Good teams force turnovers in bunches and don’t need to have wild yardage differentials either. It’s a bad metric to look at yardage rankings in my mind so I really wouldn’t even guess based solely on that. 

 

 

[ganesh]

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How every team in the NFL is capable of a 300 yard game except the Bills is what is mind boggling.

 

Rivers has made the playoffs countless times.  How about using Brady, Payton Manning, Drew Brees or Aaron Rogers instead?  Oh & Cam Newton made the SB after a lousy passing year too.  

Rivers and the Chargers have made the playoffs 6 out of the 16 years he has been a charger!!!!!...FACTS   

Rivers in the playoffs is  5-6  in 11 games....

Rivers has a 14-10  TD/INT ratio in the playoffs

Throwing for 300 yards means a squat

 

 

1 hour ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

Do the Bills know something that the other 31 teams don't as they're the only team incapable of it & now going on 3 years!!!!

 

 

So how come the Bills aren't able to?  How did the Rams go from 32nd to 1st in one year????   

 

I take it as a defender of the process jumping from 29th to 24th is spectacular? 

 

Yes I expected a huge jump this year & that Allen would be given the opportunity to excel.....  Again I blame it on the coaching & play calling.

 

The Rams went from 32 to 1st by signing a LOT OF Free Agents at a VERY HEFTY Price and Draft Picks....It worked the 1st 2 years...Now they are IN a  DOWNWARD Spiral !!!

[Boatdrinks]

I’m certain the Bills are capable of throwing for 300 yards in a game. However, it’s clear they do not want to do the things necessary for that to happen in a game. Namely, pass the ball about 35 to 40 times. This reluctance may be due to personnel issues on the offense, which is still not completely rebuilt. They focused on the OL this past offseason, and got two starting caliber WRs as they had none. They’re scraping by with a rookie TE that caught few passes in college and lack a physical, big , matchup WR on the outside. Patience, grasshopper. I’d reckon a sizable chunk of their offseason and cap $$ will be spent adding weapons for Josh Allen. Meanwhile, this team in its current form is going to the playoffs. That’s entertaining by any standard. 

[prissythecat]

4 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 Blah. Blah. 300.  blah  blah.   I’m a broken record.

 

 

There made your argument a lot more concise .

 

Amazing how facile your views on NFL offenses are.   You bring up the Rams as an example to be copied?   You do realize that their high flying  offense  from last season was predicated on heavy doses of Gurley running the ball to open things up  ?  It had little to do with having Goff try to air things out on his own.    Now that Gurley ‘s knees are shot, the Rams have sunk .

[Rc2catch]

I’ll bite. 
If we had a Kansas City trajectory of a top offense and mediocre to poor defense we would be a much more exciting team and definitely we would be higher on the national spotlight. However I am very in the “defense wins championships” category. 
Come playoff time the best teams play a complete game. You have to be able to run, make key throws and play solid defense. Sometimes we can do all 3. Some teams cannot. 
Unless you’re in a shootout the offensive juggernauts tend to bog down in the playoffs. When each possession counts a little more and more pressure is put on and you are guaranteed to get defenses A game it’s much harder to execute all these plays. 
I would like more offense from buffalo. 
But I wouldn’t want it at the expense of having some rag tag defense that allows most games to be a shootout. 
I like where we are. The offense has been pretty ugly and inconsistent but in my opinion that’s an advantage come playoff time. 
They have every chance to pull a bit of a rope a dope in the playoffs. How can teams game plan for an offense that nobody has a clue they can execute? There’s a lot of film on what the bills struggle against but let’s be honest we have beat it to death, couple key throws or plays here and there and we’re winning almost every game this year. 
Give me the A+ Bills defense we have seen most games this year and an offense that is nowhere near hitting their potential. Daboll is mind boggling at times but he’s also done a lot of good here. 
I do not know if he’s holding Allen back in his development, I’m not a professional only the guys inside the coaches rooms can say for sure. All I can say is the tape is there for the playoff defenses and for the bills offense to see. I cannot believe they are so dumb they don’t have ideas on how to fix this in the playoffs. 
And the conspiracy theorist in me would also like to believe they have intentionally slow played things a little bit specifically for this playoff run. We have complained for weeks how the playcalling and offense is being ran. This is not the offense we seen the first half of the season. Since Dallas when the playoffs were basically a lock the offense has backed off on a lot of what was successful and they’ve still hung in every game. I do believe there’s another gear tucked away to this thing based on some of what we seen in the preseason. 

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

3 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

I still think they are fun to watch and that's not because I am mired if 60's football.  Its because I feel like Allen can always pull that drive off even if sometimes he doesn't.

I don't need to see 300 yards games to be more entertained.  Just some more scores would suffice no matter how they got them.  Personally I am more entertained by tough fought battles and nail biters than I would be blowing teams out left and right.  If I were a Pats fan I would have been bored of that team long ago.  Why? Because I always know the outcome.  There really isn't much emotion involved.  In our games the emotions are like a roller coaster.  That's what makes the games fun IMO.

 

As for the rest... I believe its just part of the Allen development.  This is where the team is at right now.  The defense is way ahead of the offense right now so they game plan for that.   They play to their strengths.  Right now their strength is defense.  While I don't like it, I think as the offenses catches up and Allen improves we will see a shift. I still think Daboll could do a better job though.  I don't think he is a good coach.  Im tired of hearing that he is a good coach because "he schemed a guy open."  Yeah, they all do.

 

I think if the offense and defense flipped, we would be in no better position then we are in now.

I think we also have to remember we are in year 3 of this defense. Early in the season it was mentioned by Micah Hyde and Frazier  that their cohesiveness of being together for 3 years now let’s them play at a confident level. They can now disguise coverages, play at a high level and more freely because of the communication and just trusting what each other is doing out there.

 

Which is where I’m at with this Offense. Considering it’s been revamped from the offensive line up almost in its entirety since last year coupled with the fact that you have John Brown saying this is one of the most complicated offenses he has played in.. then I can temper my expectations for this season. I consider this year one with this offense. 

 

We are young at some key positions. My  expectations are that next season there has to be continued progression from now to then. Another year of playing together, knowing what each other can do. Being healthy most of this season should prove valuable in getting that continued game experience with each other. 
 

If our offense can take it up a notch like I expect than I really believe next year and beyond is where our run begins.  That’s been Beanes’and Mcd plan all along. To set us up to be a regular contender every year from here on out. Right now from an organizational roster standpoint we are probably ahead of 2/3 of the teams in the league. Which leaves 9 teams roughly not including us that are in our way from our first elusive title.

 

Some of these teams have aging players. Some are stronger on one side of the ball than the other. I think finding that level of balance is crucial. Baltimore is a good example because they can score and play defense. Kc can score but not play defense. I think we are striving for that balanced approach...and we are very close.
 

Our team will have hurdles to overcome. Next years

schedule is going to be difficult. But I don’t think Mcd lets them lose sight and focus. His coaching is why we are in most games and has been consistently recognized by his peers for doing the job he has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by loveorhatembillsfan4life

[TwistofFate]

Imo, we are probably in a similar situation as we are now. 

 

You never want a team that is polarized.  Having a ridiculously good offense and a horrendous defense kind of puts you in the same position we are in now. 

 

Instead of praying for 3 and outs or a turn over, we'd be praying for Tds, big runs and catches.   

 

We would be focused on clock control and management to keep our own defense off the field and limit the opposing teams opportunities by using our offense as the first line of defense. 

 

The only advantage I can see is the league is designed to benefit the offense, so because of that, id say we get 2 more wins than what we have right now.  12-3.

 

If we had a competent offense with what we have already on defense, Im thinking we may have only 1-2 losses this whole season.  At this point, 13-2 or better. 

 

 

 

 

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I think we also have to remember we are in year 3 of this defense. Early in the season it was mentioned by Micah Hyde and Frazier  that their cohesiveness of being together for 3 years now let’s them play at a confident level. They can now disguise coverages, play at a high level and more freely because of the communication and just trusting what each other is doing out there.

 

Which is where I’m at with this Offense. Considering it’s been revamped from the offensive line up almost in its entirety since last year coupled with the fact that you have John Brown saying this is one of the most complicated offenses he has played in.. then I can temper my expectations for this season. I consider this year one with this offense. 

 

We are young at some key positions. My  expectations are that next season there has to be continued progression from now to then. Another year of playing together, knowing what each other can do. Being healthy most of this season should prove valuable in getting that continued game experience with each other. 
 

If our offense can take it up a notch like I expect than I really believe next year and beyond is where our run begins.  That’s been Beanes’and Mcd plan all along. To set us up to be a regular contender every year from here on out. Right now from an organizational roster standpoint we are probably ahead of 2/3 of the teams in the league. Which leaves 9 teams roughly not including us that are in our way from our first elusive title.

 

Some of these teams have aging players. Some are stronger on one side of the ball than the other. I think finding that level of balance is crucial. Baltimore is a good example because they can score and play defense. Kc can score but not play defense. I think we are striving for that balanced approach...and we are very close.
 

Our team will have hurdles to overcome. Next years

schedule is going to be difficult. But I don’t think Mcd lets them lose sight and focus. His coaching is why we are in most games and has been consistently recognized by his peers for doing the job he has.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Very good points.  KC has been picking up on defense and doing very well lately though.

[rayray808]

the only person to catch a TD last year, and this year...

 

Dion Dawkins.

 

 

 

it does not excuse our offense for scoring 17 points all the damn time, but this is literally a brand new group that didnʻt have much time to get on the same page as players AND coaches.

 

I truly believe we are going to start peaking offensively at the right time... next week in the playoffs.

 

If we do... look out!

 

If we donʻt... we have an entire off season and tons of cash/draft picks to improve on it.

 

As for Josh Allen, there is no QB that I would rather have from that class regarding work ethic and approach towards his profession. This off season is going to be HUGE for him to grow as a more complete passer. If he works his tail off, and for some reason we are seeing the same results next year? Perhaps then we look at plan B.

[Billsfan1972]

 

7 hours ago, ganesh said:

Rivers and the Chargers have made the playoffs 6 out of the 16 years he has been a charger!!!!!...FACTS   

Rivers in the playoffs is  5-6  in 11 games....

Rivers has a 14-10  TD/INT ratio in the playoffs

Throwing for 300 yards means a squat

 

 

 

The Rams went from 32 to 1st by signing a LOT OF Free Agents at a VERY HEFTY Price and Draft Picks....It worked the 1st 2 years...Now they are IN a  DOWNWARD Spiral !!!

6 of 16 is better then the Bills record.  Also note a tougher Division......

 

Rams had an incredibly tough schedule including 2 vs. both the Seahawks & 49ers, Saints, Bears & Ravens......  Lost to common opponents Steelers, Cowboys, but beat the Browns.....  So if the Bills pay for FA's with all their money, does that mean they'll stink in 2-3 years too?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

lets pretend?

 

the obsession with 300 yd games, lives on.

[Putin]

I think if our defense sucked and Allen had to throw the ball 40 + times a game there’s a good chance that he would have more then one 300 yards passing games , 

 

[Billsfan1972]

5 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

lets pretend?

 

the obsession with 300 yd games, lives on.

Yep, when the Bills have gone 3 years without, it has become a joke & it is almost impossible to fathom the futility......

 

Are you all so thrilled with the 30th, 29th & 24th ranked offense the past 3 years?

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

1 minute ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Yep, when the Bills have gone 3 years without, it has become a joke & it is almost impossible to fathom the futility......

 

Are you all so thrilled with the 30th, 29th & 24th ranked offense the past 3 years?

I'm thrilled they are 10-5 and in the post season.

[Putin]

27 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

lets pretend?

 

the obsession with 300 yd games, lives on.

We won 10 games made the playoffs but all that without a 300 yards passing game means nothing ,,

300 yards passing is EVERYTHING 

[ganesh]

5 hours ago, rayray808 said:

the only person to catch a TD last year, and this year...

 

Dion Dawkins.

 

WoW!!!!

43 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

 

6 of 16 is better then the Bills record.  Also note a tougher Division......

 

Rams had an incredibly tough schedule including 2 vs. both the Seahawks & 49ers, Saints, Bears & Ravens......  Lost to common opponents Steelers, Cowboys, but beat the Browns.....  So if the Bills pay for FA's with all their money, does that mean they'll stink in 2-3 years too?

6 of 16 in playoffs with no visit to the SuperBowl is pretty average considering what his 1st round buddies in Eli Manning and Ben Rothelisberger did in winning multiple Super Bowls.  Every division in the NFL is tough most of the years.  Do you think our games against Jets or Dolphins have been any easy. 

 

If you do put all your money in the FA basket, the cap will catch up with you pretty soon.  

[loveorhatembillsfan4life]

6 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Very good points.  KC has been picking up on defense and doing very well lately though.

I would love to see a rematch KC vs Titans. Titans already pulled it off first matchup. 

[Putin]

12 minutes ago, loveorhatembillsfan4life said:

I would love to see a rematch KC vs Titans. Titans already pulled it off first matchup. 

AFC championship game 

Titans at Buffalo 

[Billsfan1972]

19 minutes ago, Putin said:

We won 10 games made the playoffs but all that without a 300 yards passing game means nothing ,,

300 yards passing is EVERYTHING 

Again the Bills are 25-22 under McD, not 47-0.....  Being able to throw the ball for 300 yards may have changed the result in a few of those losses.....  

As one person pointed out is the Bills scored a TD vs. Cleveland on that last possession through the air they would have thrown for 300 yards.....  But no McD wanted a 53 yard FG to tie the game.....

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

20 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:

Again the Bills are 25-22 under McD, not 47-0.....  Being able to throw the ball for 300 yards may have changed the result in a few of those losses.....  

As one person pointed out is the Bills scored a TD vs. Cleveland on that last possession through the air they would have thrown for 300 yards.....  But no McD wanted a 53 yard FG to tie the game.....

what are you going to do when they win their first post season game 17-10 with JA only throwing for 200 yds?   

 

 

complain?

 

 

probably.

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

46 minutes ago, Putin said:

300 yards passing is EVERYTHING 

All hail the Hypno Putin!  ?

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

what are you going to do when they win their first post season game 17-10 with JA only throwing for 200 yds?   

 

 

complain?

 

 

probably.

Assuredly

[Billsfan1972]

 

21 minutes ago, DaBillsFanSince1973 said:

what are you going to do when they win their first post season game 17-10 with JA only throwing for 200 yds?   

 

 

complain?

 

 

probably.

When we hand the ball back 2X's in the final 5 minutes to give them a chance to tie, or get the ball with 2 minutes & 3 TO's in a tight game at the end of the first half and play to run out the clock?  Yep probably.....

 

And if the Bills lose because they were conservative on Offense or were unprepared on that side of the ball (as they were vs. Balt & NE), how will you react?

 

I know.....  It is all part of the process & 2020 (or 2021 or 2022) & it will all be okay.... 

[Johnnycage46]

11 hours ago, Billsfan1972 said:

How so?  I think he is severely held back & badly coached.

 

I think the offense is a lot better then it shows.

 

The fact that every NFL team has thrown for 300 yards in each of 2017, 2018 & 2019 (except Arizona in 2018) pretty much tells you how this staff has handled the Bills offense since McD was signed.

Finally!  A 300 yard reference

[Billsfan1972]

This is where you Fans don't get it......  Defenses & Offenses can change very quickly, but if you have your franchise QB, you are set on offense....  Anyone worry year to year about NO, Seattle, GB, NE, KC or LA's offenses?  You know they will be good year after year & it is then a matter of how good.

 

Conversely let's look @ 2018 defenses & where they are in 2019....  Case in points Chicago, Jacksonville,  Minnesota (again yards allowed).   It is hard to maintain that level and yes the Bills have been right at the top for 2 years, that doesn't mean next year they'll remain there.