GunnerBill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, eball said: This was confirmed long ago. "Don't let him leave the building." No it wasn't. The full sentence was "when you have your guy you don't let him leave the building." The Pegulas decided Rex was the guy before the leave the building quote. It is one of those long misunderstood stories. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said: This is a really simplistic take on things. There’s no guarantee that Mahomes turns out to be the same QB in Buffalo that he is in KC. Like Lamar, and even Josh to an extent, Mahomes went to a great situation on KC. He had a perfect mentor alex Smith, was able to sit a year and learn the offense while working for one of the great coaches. Plus he had a lot of talent surrounding him on offense. He wouldn’t have any of this in Buffalo. We had Tyrod Taylor on the roster. Mahomes might not have started. Mahomes would have benefitted from having a great defense, which he certainly has not had in KC. He may not have thrown 50 TDS, but he certainly would have still been a great winning QB. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 46 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: The Chargers were terrible in 2015 and 2016. 38 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said: And to make matters worse some other new HC playing GM traded what turned out to be the best QB to enter the league in decades to his division rival.? Tough breaks! It's funny the lack of perspective regarding the NFL with so many on this site. This isn’t necessarily accurate. We could go name for name down those rosters and the talent would match up favorably with most of the league. They underperformed, which is why the coaching position was open, and were also ravaged by injury- as they always seem to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said: No, no........say it right.........McD had Patrick Mahomes in hand........and traded him away..........with Tyrod Taylor as his #1 QB. A lot has to play out right long term after you make the most egregious error in franchise history. Hopefully it does but it's going to take more than losing a couple of road wildcard games..............gotta' raise that Lombardi before Mahomes does. Everyone could have had Mahommes in hand .. if the Chiefs or others could look into the future they would have traded all their draft capital to get him. he is an amazing Quarterback, but the fact is mcDermott was new on the scene and did not have the front office in place that he could trust and he is not an expert on quarterbacks .. he is a D-minded coach. It makes perfect sense that he passed on patrick, though of course in hindsight.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said: Everyone could have had Mahommes in hand .. if the Chiefs or others could look into the future they would have traded all their draft capital to get him. he is an amazing Quarterback, but the fact is mcDermott was new on the scene and did not have the front office in place that he could trust and he is not an expert on quarterbacks .. he is a D-minded coach. It makes perfect sense that he passed on patrick, though of course in hindsight.... Sure, it was reasonable to pass on Mahomes/Watson. It was also reasonable to pass on Wilson. It was reasonable to pass on Bridgewater. It was reasonable to not draft a QB in the first round each year we didn’t do that for almost a decade. The problem is you need to take risks in the NFL to win. It’s gambling. It’s reasonable to not play blackjack but that means you’ll never win. Edited December 18, 2019 by FireChans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 I don't dislike Lynn. I think he was a credible candidate here and elsewhere even before the Bills made him the sacrificial lamb interim and then hung him out to dry while Terry hid in Florida. And then when that went belly up he sent Doug Whaley out for the "not privy" disaster. That said I had decided a year before Rex Ryan was fired (when Terry was absolutely considering whether he should make him a 1 and done coach) that Sean McDermott was the guy I wanted the Bills to hire. We were lucky that the Panthers made the Superbowl the year before because waiting until Feb to get your guy and missing the Shrine Game and Senior Bowl and the best availability of assistants does put a lot of teams off hiring guys. It meant McDermott was still there on the market in 2017 for the Bills. If someone wants to try and find it there is a post somewhere in the archives of this board from mid 2016 where I said the two guys that were for me head and shoulders the best current coordinator HC candidates were Josh McDaniels and Sean McDermott. Great hire. Doing an outstanding job. Gonna be here a long time. As for Lynn's seat it is definitely warm. Not all on him for sure and it looks like they might ditch Rivers and stick one more year with Lynn and Telesco but if they do that without a Quarterback (or with Tyrod) then they are just delaying the inevitable for a year. If they keep Lynn and ditch Rivers they better have a credible plan for QB in 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, FireChans said: We had Tyrod Taylor on the roster. Mahomes might not have started. Mahomes would have benefitted from having a great defense, which he certainly has not had in KC. He may not have thrown 50 TDS, but he certainly would have still been a great winning QB. He would be a miracle worker if he put up good numbers throwing to Deonte Thompson, Zay Jones, and Andre Holmes. I don’t agree Mahomes would be the same QB. This is why these people lamenting they past like this is just futile. 12 minutes ago, CorkScrewHill said: Everyone could have had Mahommes in hand .. if the Chiefs or others could look into the future they would have traded all their draft capital to get him. he is an amazing Quarterback, but the fact is mcDermott was new on the scene and did not have the front office in place that he could trust and he is not an expert on quarterbacks .. he is a D-minded coach. It makes perfect sense that he passed on patrick, though of course in hindsight.... Right there are a lot of circumstances. I think it’s very simplistic to assume that Mahomes would relocate the success he had in KC. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bangarang Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) If only we hired Jim Schwartz, Hue Jackson would be our OC, EJ would be coming off an MVP season and we’d be the 1 seed. Edited December 18, 2019 by Bangarang 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Bangarang said: If only we hired Jim Schwartz, Hue Jackson would be our OC, EJ would be coming off an MVP season and we’d be the 1 seed. And Sammy would be a “generational talent” 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Bangarang said: If only we hired Jim Schwartz, Hue Jackson would be our OC, EJ would be coming off an MVP season and we’d be the 1 seed. Allen was given more of a chance to succeed than EJ!!! ? 1 minute ago, Phil The Thrill said: And Sammy would be a “generational talent” Sammy without injuries would have. He played in a high school offense here and was really good. He broke his foot and rushed back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Putin said: I don’t think McD gets enough credit for building a championship defense , GO BILLS !!!!! McDermott absolutely does not get the credit he deserves for the Bills revival. We talk about the QB; lot's of good, but still a few question marks. We talk about Beane; lots of good, but a number of misses. Not to say that Allen won't get there or Beane won't prove to be a great GM. But if we're talking about RESULTS, McDermott is the guy. 9 wins with junk in 2017. 6 wins with TRASH in 2018. 10-4 with an average roster in 2019. He gets a (maybe deserved) bad rap for being too conservative, but all his teams do is win more games than they're "supposed" to. Almost always wins highly contested games which past teams would find a way to lose. When was the last time the Bills had teams you "trusted" to avoid a "Billsy" loss late in the 4th QTR? He's been winning these games since day 1. McDermott is far and away the most PROVEN element of the Bills resurgence. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, Bangarang said: If only we hired Jim Schwartz, Hue Jackson would be our OC, EJ would be coming off an MVP season and we’d be the 1 seed. If we hired Jim Schwartz that would’ve set the franchise back another 2-3 years. He’s a great DC but a horrible HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KD in CA Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I feel like if Lynn was the HC, Tyrod would still be our QB and we would be "in the hunt" right now at 7-7. That's perfect. So many flashbacks to the Bills being on the bottom right corner of the AFC playoff graphic, looking up at a couple 8-6 teams on the 'in the hunt' list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 19 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Allen was given more of a chance to succeed than EJ!!! ? Sammy without injuries would have. He played in a high school offense here and was really good. He broke his foot and rushed back. Allen was a much better QB. He deserved more of a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike in Horseheads Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, FireChans said: Well of course, the biggest goal in the NFL is to gain draft picks and flexibility. The Dolphins are dominating this year! If your the original minus the "s" glad to see your the same DB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 42 minutes ago, SWATeam said: This isn’t necessarily accurate. We could go name for name down those rosters and the talent would match up favorably with most of the league. They underperformed, which is why the coaching position was open, and were also ravaged by injury- as they always seem to be. Well the Pegula's thought the Bills had grossly underachieved too. Did you forget the "7-9...not good enough" PC after the 2016 season? The narrative that they "lacked talent" emerged only later as a defense mechanism/excuse. The team McD inherited was known for excellent defensive talent and an offense that dominated on the ground and lead the NFL in big plays for 2 straight seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Well the Pegula's thought the Bills had grossly underachieved too. Did you forget the "7-9...not good enough" PC after the 2016 season? The narrative that they "lacked talent" emerged only later as a defense mechanism/excuse. The team McD inherited was known for excellent defensive talent and an offense that dominated on the ground and lead the NFL in big plays for 2 straight seasons. Bills did underachieve, and did have talent, as so many have pointed out as McD “gutting the roster.” And since, he has only ended the 17 year playoff drought by securing two playoff berths in three years. Success by any measure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helpmenow Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Lynn might be fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 4 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said: I feel like if Lynn was the HC, Tyrod would still be our QB and we would be "in the hunt" right now at 7-7. That is kind of feeling you get when you are smothered in cheese. 3 hours ago, WhoTom said: In retrospect, I'm glad they hired Rex when they did. Although he set the franchise back a few years, it set the stage for the current front office, and they've rebounded quite nicely. Sometimes, a mistake is the best thing that can happen to you. For some of the Debbie Downers I agree. Their parents made mistake of not using birth control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Thrill Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Lynn might be fired I hope not. He’s a good guy and I do think he’s a good coach. For some reason he hasn’t gotten things done in SD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 hours ago, CLTbills said: The point is, that McDermott AS A COACH has done more with less. Well he was part of getting less and starting less as QB so he earned his losses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punching Bag Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 53 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said: If we hired Jim Schwartz that would’ve set the franchise back another 2-3 years. He’s a great DC but a horrible HC I heard the same thing about a Browns Head Coach. You may have heard of him ... Bill Bilicheat. 22 minutes ago, Helpmenow said: Lynn might be fired "Might" like "maybe" has little meaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CLTbills Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: And to make matters worse some other new HC playing GM traded what turned out to be the best QB to enter the league in decades to his division rival.? Tough breaks! It's funny the lack of perspective regarding the NFL with so many on this site. I think it's more funny that you don't think Lynn has had way more to work with. Lets see here. Last year, Sean McDermott took a team whose starting QB was the most raw rookie quarterback in the draft (and possibly one of the most raw 1st rd quarterbacks of the last decade) with a top receiver who was an undrafted rookie, with a starting offensive line on which (aside from Dion Dawkins) not ONE of them is a starting-quality player to a 6-10 record. Anthony Lynn has, this year, in what (or at least I've been told this, because it's the "reason" the Bills have won 10 games this year) is a much softer AFC, taken a team that has Phillip Rivers (a first-ballot hall of famer) throwing to Keenan Allen, handing it off to Melvin Gordon and Austin Ekeler, and STUDS on the D-line in Joey Bosa and Melvin Ingram, to a (currently) 5-9 record. If you are going to seriously sit here and tell me that Sean McDermott hasn't achieved more with less, then you are not even being realistic, you just don't like McDermott. And that's OK if you don't. Just come out and say it, don't dance around it. Because it's pretty obvious you have a bias and an agenda because no reasonable person would look at the talent on these two teams over the last three years and come to the conclusion that you seem to have come to. And FYI, the "we didn't draft Mahomes" horse was beaten dead the better part of two years ago. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Royale with Cheese Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: That is kind of feeling you get when you are smothered in cheese. My heart started pounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: I heard the same thing about a Browns Head Coach. You may have heard of him ... Bill Bilicheat. "Might" like "maybe" has little meaning. To compare Schwartz to Belicheat is asinine. Schwartz is not HC material and that has been proven during his tenure in Detroit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSHMEAB Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Limeaid said: That is kind of feeling you get when you are smothered in cheese. For some of the Debbie Downers I agree. Their parents made mistake of not using birth control. What in the world are you talking about in this thread? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBills1998 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Phil The Thrill said: I hope not. He’s a good guy and I do think he’s a good coach. For some reason he hasn’t gotten things done in SD If they do indeed fire him I hope pegula would have Beane give him a call and see if he would be interested in coming back to Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 hours ago, Just Joshin' said: So you note that these are career records but subtract the 1 win when Lynn was in Buffalo. They have the same record over the same period. The difference may be that Lynn gets fired this year and McDermott will not. Lynn also had one of the most talented rosters in the NFL. McDermott literally started from the bottom. It’s been amazing to watch a culture and talent rebuild in three years. I hope he’s our coach until he retires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Lynn inherited a contender. McD did a rebuild and still has same record. We struck Gold with McD & Beane 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 Sometimes you start a thread and get everything you hoped for...some around here are so predictable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 8 hours ago, CLTbills said: So they essentially have identical records. One coach had Tyrod Taylor one year, and the most “raw”rookie available, and while progressing, is definitely still a young QB learning on the job. The other coach has had Phillip Rivers. Rivers is overrated. I think Ben and Eli from that QB group have had much better careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
folz Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 No McDermott? No Beane! No Beane and no McDermott? No good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 hours ago, eball said: Asking for a friend. Interesting to note: their career W-L records are very similar: Lynn: 26-21 RS, 1-1 PS (1/3 playoff berths) McD: 25-21, 0-1 (2/3 playoff berths) McDermott all day, PROCESS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 13 hours ago, eball said: 2017 revisited...McDermott or ALynn for HC?? Seriously? Jeez, is your "friend" not noticing the trajectories of these two teams? You can't compare Ws and Ls here, as McDermott rebuilt and that means a ton of losses. Lynn did not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) 9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: Well the Pegula's thought the Bills had grossly underachieved too. Did you forget the "7-9...not good enough" PC after the 2016 season? The narrative that they "lacked talent" emerged only later as a defense mechanism/excuse. The team McD inherited was known for excellent defensive talent and an offense that dominated on the ground and lead the NFL in big plays for 2 straight seasons. Flat-out nonsense. They lacked talent compared to what they were paying. Some good players but not enough, especially for a team that was spending their cap like a team in a Super Bowl window. And yet they didn't have a franchise QB. They didn't have excellent defensive talent, they had three or four good players and a few other decent guys. To remind anyone who might think for an instant that you have a point, let's recap our starters on D that year: Adolphus Washington Kyle Williams Marcell Dareus / Leger Douzable Preston Brown Lorenzo Alexander Zach Brown Jerry Hughes Ronald Darby Stephon Gilmore Corey Graham Corey White That's not excellent defensive talent. It's Stephon Gilmore, Hughes, Kyle Williams on the downslope, Dareus after he'd stopped being able to rush the passer and was being paid too much ... and a bunch of players, some decent, some not. That offense was just not good. 16th in the league and not explosive in the least. When we got behind we were out of the game. They absolutely lacked talent, most particularly at the one place you absolutely have to have it, behind center. And when they then lost Eric Wood to career-ending injury and Incognito to mental problems they were even further behind the eight-ball. They could have rebuilt with no QB and serious cap problems and no franchise QB. Thank God they were too smart for that. Instead they rebuilt, which brought them enough cap relief and draft capital to draft Allen, who might actually become a franchise QB, something Tyrod was in zero danger of ever becoming. Edited December 18, 2019 by Thurman#1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 10 hours ago, GunnerBill said: No it wasn't. The full sentence was "when you have your guy you don't let him leave the building." The Pegulas decided Rex was the guy before the leave the building quote. It is one of those long misunderstood stories. Good point. Nice observation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said: No, no........say it right.........McD had Patrick Mahomes in hand........and traded him away..........with Tyrod Taylor as his #1 QB. A lot has to play out right long term after you make the most egregious error in franchise history. Hopefully it does but it's going to take more than losing a couple of road wildcard games..............gotta' raise that Lombardi before Mahomes does. And yet more nonsense. Tre White and Josh Allen could easily turn out to be a better combo than the singleton Mahomes, particularly without a year to sit behind Alex Smith while Andy Reid whispered in his ear. A lot has to play out right long term ... either way. When KC gets a Lombardi doesn't matter. It only matters that the Bills become consistently competitive for a championship. As McDermott has pointed out several times, he had too much to do laying the groundwork for getting this team headed in the right direction. Which we now see he did extremely well. He's said he didn't have time to scout QBs as thoroughly as he needed to take a chance on one that year. And he had Whaley as his GM, a guy who'd been all in on the EJ Manuel decision, certainly not a guy you would trust to pick your QB if he did trust him, and he clearly didn't as we discovered the day after the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALF Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 It would have been nice to keep Marrone and Jim Schwartz for another year or two to avoid the Rex Ryan disaster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aireskoi Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 McDermott and Beane are doing something that few could do. They're changing the paradigm in Buffalo. No offense to Lynn, but Sean is exactly the right man for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurpleBull Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 A lot of you mocking Lynn now, mocked the McDermott hire at the time if we're going to be honest. A lot of you wanted the "hot" candidate...I think it was Kyle Shanahan at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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