Bengals accuse Pats employee of videotaping their play calls

[Herc11]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Are you saying the bags were left on the plane and never removed from plane? I had assumed they came off plane and flew on another. Obviously your way is possible as an accident but then the KC equipment person is likely already fired.

 

The story I read stated that there were high school games being played (I think on Saturday) when the plane arrived. For some reason there was no where to put the equipment when they arrived due to this, so they left it on the plane. Then the plane ended up leaving with the equipment on board.

[NoSaint]

11 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

This is what I keep waiting for to be asked. Is the scout (the guy so called being video'd) not part of football operations???

im not sure you’d expect the scout being filmed to also be clearing what are legal camera angles and if they crew are consistently following policy. 
 

he’s there to scout the game not police the filming 

[Herc11]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

im not sure you’d expect the scout being filmed to also be clearing what are legal camera angles and if they crew are consistently following policy. 
 

he’s there to scout the game not police the filming 

He is part of football operations though. So Belichek's b.s. statement that the taping had nothing to do with football ops is a bold lie. You really dont think that Belichek knew anything about one of the members of the Patriot staff being filmed at work? That man has control of EVERYTHING going on there.

[Orlando Tim]

2 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

im not sure you’d expect the scout being filmed to also be clearing what are legal camera angles and if they crew are consistently following policy. 
 

he’s there to scout the game not police the filming 

How in the world does this thinking happen? If he is there with a camera in the booth he HAS to know what can be filmed and what can not be filmed. As a teacher I am required not only to know each students IEP but also every law and regulation related to their specific condition. 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

im not sure you’d expect the scout being filmed to also be clearing what are legal camera angles and if they crew are consistently following policy. 
 

he’s there to scout the game not police the filming 

I don't know, I would think a Patriots scout of all people would be aware of what you can and can't film.

Edited December 12, 2019 by Warcodered

[NoSaint]

7 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

He is part of football operations though. So Belichek's b.s. statement that the taping had nothing to do with football ops is a bold lie. You really dont think that Belichek knew anything about one of the members of the Patriot staff being filmed at work? That man has control of EVERYTHING going on there.

Really arguing a meaningless point at that level. 
 

either they were filming for the scouting department and it was for football operations or they were filming for social media promotions and that a football employee was the subject doesn’t much matter in the realm of it being football ops. 

7 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

I don't know, I would think a Patriots scout of all people would be aware of what you can and can't film.

And if he’s doing his job watching the game he likely doesn’t know what each possible camera is filming at any given moment 

[Augie]

7 minutes ago, Herc11 said:

He is part of football operations though. So Belichek's b.s. statement that the taping had nothing to do with football ops is a bold lie. You really dont think that Belichek knew anything about one of the members of the Patriot staff being filmed at work? That man has control of EVERYTHING going on there.

 

I have zero idea, but I wonder a lot. These guys have thought everything through completely, is my best guess. This was the same cover story they were to use last time. They guy reported he worked for Kraft, or Kraft Enterprises or something. Is that one layer further removed from Belichick to give him more insulation? I’m guessing yes. 

 

I’d love to see the tape, but I’d rather win the lottery. I’m skeptical either will ever happen. 

[NoSaint]

8 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

How in the world does this thinking happen? If he is there with a camera in the booth he HAS to know what can be filmed and what can not be filmed. As a teacher I am required not only to know each students IEP but also every law and regulation related to their specific condition. 

right and I’d bet that he knew every player on the field and what he was allowed to do.

 

but that doesn’t mean you know what’s on the principals computer screen while he’s observing you, for instance.

 

theres enough red meat here that latching onto narratives like it being a scout involved as the subject doesn’t need to be important unless/until he’s somehow tied to nefarious behavior. In theory he’s watching the field doing his job. 

[Warcodered]

5 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

Really arguing a meaningless point at that level. 
 

either they were filming for the scouting department and it was for football operations or they were filming for social media promotions and that a football employee was the subject doesn’t much matter in the realm of it being football ops. 

And if he’s doing his job watching the game he likely doesn’t know what each possible camera is filming at any given moment 

and apparently is also incapable of telling them what they can't/aren't allowed to film, I mean it's not like he scouts for a team that has gotten in serious trouble for that before.?‍♂️

[Orlando Tim]

3 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

right and I’d bet that he knew every player on the field and what he was allowed to do.

 

but that doesn’t mean you know what’s on the principals computer screen while he’s observing you, for instance.

 

theres enough red meat here that latching onto narratives like it being a scout involved as the subject doesn’t need to be important unless/until he’s somehow tied to nefarious behavior. In theory he’s watching the field doing his job. 

If a student assistant was doing something illegal under my watch then I am responsible. If camera man is only one responsible for what he is filming the Pats need to tell him explicitly what is appropriate. To allow this to be chalked up to ignorance is unacceptable. This is not just because it is Pat's*, any team doing this needs to be punished, they get it worse because they are repeat offenders.

5 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

and apparently is also incapable of telling them what they can't/aren't allowed to film, I mean it's not like he scouts for a team that has gotten in serious trouble for that before.?‍♂️

Stop writing what I am writing while I am writing it- just with different emojis.

[jimmy10]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

that article details the reasons why so many people hate NE so much

 

Can you imagine American sports fans hating Mahomes and Reid if the Chiefs won 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls? Or if Peyton Manning had won a few more titles, would everyone have hated him and Dungy?

 

Of course not. It's the DOCUMENTED CHEATING combined with timely BS calls AND the "undisputable GOAT" talk that makes so many of us sick. 

[raises hand] I hate Manning and Dungy. 

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, TheFunPolice said:

 

Can you imagine  Reid if the Chiefs won 3 of the next 4 Super Bowls?

 

 

 

Absolutely no one can imagine this...

[TheFunPolice]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Absolutely no one can imagine this...

Lol

 

Very true! 

[Warcodered]

22 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Absolutely no one can imagine this...

[Captain_Quint]

[NoSaint]

50 minutes ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

If a student assistant was doing something illegal under my watch then I am responsible. If camera man is only one responsible for what he is filming the Pats need to tell him explicitly what is appropriate. To allow this to be chalked up to ignorance is unacceptable. This is not just because it is Pat's*, any team doing this needs to be punished, they get it worse because they are repeat offenders.

Stop writing what I am writing while I am writing it- just with different emojis.

 

right but again you aren’t using solid comparables. 
 

the assistant reports to you. The students are under your care.
 

the subject of a documentary film crew isn’t implicitly tasked with monitoring all camera angles at all times while also performing his actual job. The producer of the segment bears responsibility for his crew. 
 

If the crew is feeding film back to the pats it becomes a football ops issues.
 

I’m not saying the pats are not guilty. I’m saying some of you seem so worried that they will be found not guilty that you are coming up with relatively weak ways to try to seal off the exits instead of realizing the elephant in the room can’t fit out the door to escape anyway. Fighting to nail up a 2x4 to hold him in isn’t terribly effective.
 

ultimately, the tape will tell the story. It doesn’t matter if the subject was a scout, cheerleader, equipment guy, snow shoveler or accountant. The camera guy either was focused on sideline coaches making calls in a meaningful way or he was filming general B Roll around the stadium and field and only caught the coordinators in passing shots.

If the dude zoomed in on the OC all quarter like the bengals employee said the pats will get hit hard. It’d be almost impossible to explain a non-football ops reason to do that.
 

If he was 75% profile shots of the scout working, 20% catching some plays over the scouts shoulder to give a feel for the view he has and like 5% pans of the crowd and maybe 1-2 play calls thinking he was catching cool context shots- it probably won’t go anywhere beyond some fines 

[YoloinOhio]

All I want for the next like 10 (or more) christmases is to beat the ***** patriots in foxboro 

[ToGoGo]

Why are the same 3 or 4 Bills fan so vehemently playing devil's advocate for the Patriots? It's pretty obvious what's going on. I hope your intentions are pure, there's one guy earlier in this thread I'd bet money is a secret Pats fan. 

 

By the way, notice the clamp down on information since the NFL stepped in. No reports, no sources talking, nothing. Shadiness all around. 

Edited December 12, 2019 by ToGoGo
grammar

[Augie]

I’d like to know if the cameraman ever went by a nickname that rhymed with “The Reflator”. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, jimmy10 said:

[raises hand] I hate Manning and Dungy. 

I was ambivalent on Dungy but I always thought Manning was a phony 

[BuffaloSol]

6 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

everyone’s read that.  Where’s today’s quote from Wire? 

Really? You read that and you still act like nothing happened here.??? Just process it man, they have ruined football for 20 years. I'm not sure why you think it's okay to defend them?

[Herc11]

2 hours ago, NoSaint said:

Really arguing a meaningless point at that level. 
 

either they were filming for the scouting department and it was for football operations or they were filming for social media promotions and that a football employee was the subject doesn’t much matter in the realm of it being football ops. 

And if he’s doing his job watching the game he likely doesn’t know what each possible camera is filming at any given moment 

 

My point has obviously flown over your head.

[zoid8jr]

No respect for the "it's not illegal" argument.  It's the equivalent of a golf opponent coughing in someones backswing consistently and claiming it's ok because it isn't stated as illegal by the USGA to cough on a golf course...It is just poor sportsmanship and quite honestly comes down to moral integrity.

[sherpa]

7 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Are you saying the bags were left on the plane and never removed from plane? I had assumed they came off plane and flew on another. Obviously your way is possible as an accident but then the KC equipment person is likely already fired.

 

NFL charters don't normally stay at the game location after dropping the team and equipment off.

Sometimes they do. I know the Dolphin's charters to Buffalo used to stay and use the same airplane to get home.

Not sure if they still do.

It depends on the contract and how the airline can use its airplane.

If its convenient to ferry it out from the game location on Saturday and get it  back in the system, that's what's done, and a different airplane is flown in to pick them up.

 

I don't know how the Chief's and their charter lost track of this container. It either was never off-loaded, or was off-loaded and mistakenly re-loaded on this or another airplane.

If that is the case, there are other issues that have consequences.

If the charter airline accounted for the container on the BOS-EWR leg in its load manifest, its simply an internal problem.

If it didn't, and was not accounted for in the weight and balance of that flight, there are legal consequences, and the FAA could get involved.

Very unlikely the Pats were involved in any way, as there would be significant legal consequences.

[sherpa]

By the way, the airplane may have landed in Providence, RI.

That's where most teams stay when playing the Pats, but not sure about this plane, and it isn't important.

 

[Orlando Tim]

7 hours ago, NoSaint said:

 

right but again you aren’t using solid comparables. 
 

the assistant reports to you. The students are under your care.
 

the subject of a documentary film crew isn’t implicitly tasked with monitoring all camera angles at all times while also performing his actual job. The producer of the segment bears responsibility for his crew. 
 

If the crew is feeding film back to the pats it becomes a football ops issues.
 

I’m not saying the pats are not guilty. I’m saying some of you seem so worried that they will be found not guilty that you are coming up with relatively weak ways to try to seal off the exits instead of realizing the elephant in the room can’t fit out the door to escape anyway. Fighting to nail up a 2x4 to hold him in isn’t terribly effective.
 

ultimately, the tape will tell the story. It doesn’t matter if the subject was a scout, cheerleader, equipment guy, snow shoveler or accountant. The camera guy either was focused on sideline coaches making calls in a meaningful way or he was filming general B Roll around the stadium and field and only caught the coordinators in passing shots.

If the dude zoomed in on the OC all quarter like the bengals employee said the pats will get hit hard. It’d be almost impossible to explain a non-football ops reason to do that.
 

If he was 75% profile shots of the scout working, 20% catching some plays over the scouts shoulder to give a feel for the view he has and like 5% pans of the crowd and maybe 1-2 play calls thinking he was catching cool context shots- it probably won’t go anywhere beyond some fines 

If you read what I wrote I stated if camera man is only one responsible he needs to be told explicitly. You sound like Belichek right now- finding a level where someone is allowed to be ignorant of rules. 

1 hour ago, sherpa said:

 

NFL charters don't normally stay at the game location after dropping the team and equipment off.

Sometimes they do. I know the Dolphin's charters to Buffalo used to stay and use the same airplane to get home.

Not sure if they still do.

It depends on the contract and how the airline can use its airplane.

If its convenient to ferry it out from the game location on Saturday and get it  back in the system, that's what's done, and a different airplane is flown in to pick them up.

 

I don't know how the Chief's and their charter lost track of this container. It either was never off-loaded, or was off-loaded and mistakenly re-loaded on this or another airplane.

If that is the case, there are other issues that have consequences.

If the charter airline accounted for the container on the BOS-EWR leg in its load manifest, its simply an internal problem.

If it didn't, and was not accounted for in the weight and balance of that flight, there are legal consequences, and the FAA could get involved.

Very unlikely the Pats were involved in any way, as there would be significant legal consequences.

I am not arguing what you are saying I am agreeing- if that much weight was unaccounted on a plane I know the FAA would be involved and I have not heard that therefore I am assuming someone went into the system to  reroute it. But the details are important and I do not have them.

[stevewin]

8 hours ago, ToGoGo said:

Why are the same 3 or 4 Bills fan so vehemently playing devil's advocate for the Patriots? It's pretty obvious what's going on. I hope your intentions are pure, there's one guy earlier in this thread I'd bet money is a secret Pats fan. 

 

By the way, notice the clamp down on information since the NFL stepped in. No reports, no sources talking, nothing. Shadiness all around. 

At least two of them are Cheater fans.  What in their life causes a Cheater fan to frequent a Bills message board like the annoyimg kid in high school no one wants around can be the subject of the next 12 part documentary by Kraft Productiins.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....taping the Bengals as a possible playoff opponent I presume...........

[Qearly2018]

21 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....taping the Bengals as a possible playoff opponent I presume...........

The Bengals would be "In the hunt" if they were in the NFC East

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

Really? You read that and you still act like nothing happened here.??? Just process it man, they have ruined football for 20 years. I'm not sure why you think it's okay to defend them?

I was just asking where the Wire quote was. 
 

Control yourself

[thebandit27]

11 hours ago, NoSaint said:

im not sure you’d expect the scout being filmed to also be clearing what are legal camera angles and if they crew are consistently following policy. 
 

he’s there to scout the game not police the filming 

 

My problem is this: what possible reason could the film crew have to shoot the Bengals' sideline for 8 full minutes of game time?

 

Well, that's one of my problems. There's also the matter of why only the visiting team was informed, and how it's possible that an organization as detailed and as publicly notorious for unsavory action as NE****** could not make absolutely, 100% certain that anyone associated with them follows procedure to a tee.

 

Then there's the whole massive coincidence that this occurs the very week prior to them playing the team whose sideline they filmed.

 

Not to mention that the spygate article specifically mentions having built-in excuses in place such as "shooting a team documentary" and wearing non-team apparel. Oh, and the crew was shooting from a location in the box where they didn't belong.

 

For good measure, they also asked if they could just delete the footage and forget about it.

 

It absolutely stinks.

[MAJBobby]

I might not have the same thinking as others. But if I am a HOF voter I do hold these scandals against Brady and BB when it comes time to vote. 
 

IMO their legacy is tainted enough that they don’t get in first Ballot like many think. They get in but with these scandals I keep them off the first Ballot and make them wait. The problem is the voters are the same ones that routinely make excuses for them. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....taping the Bengals as a possible playoff opponent I presume...........

It’s worth noting that their previous taping worked best against the less sophisticated teams.  I got that from a big ESPN article on it.  It kinda makes sense too.  Most of the best teams still drop the occasional game to a lesser opponent.  Except the Pats didn’t really seem to do that.  That extra W a year really helps with home field advantage. 

[stevewin]

19 minutes ago, MAJBobby said:

I might not have the same thinking as others. But if I am a HOF voter I do hold these scandals against Brady and BB when it comes time to vote. 
 

IMO their legacy is tainted enough that they don’t get in first Ballot like many think. They get in but with these scandals I keep them off the first Ballot and make them wait. The problem is the voters are the same ones that routinely make excuses for them. 

I still hold out hope that over time more of the systematic cheating comes out - and that eventually they will both be fully exposed and rightly ostracized for the contemptible cheating scum they are

[GoFlamesGo]

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/12/new-england-patriots-cheating-video-bengals-sideline-spygate/amp
 

Hadn’t thought of the connection between McVay and Taylor. I thought what happened at the start of the last Super Bowl was suspicious to say the least.

[DJB]

NFL needs to really punish them severely. 

 

My suggestion  is amputation  of Brady right arm.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

Where was Belichick when Thurman lost his helmet in Minnesota??? 

41 minutes ago, DJB said:

NFL needs to really punish them severely. 

 

My suggestion  is amputation  of Brady right arm.

 

 

IMO the ONLY thing that will stop them is to take away a Trophy.  (or 2 or ....) 

 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, stevewin said:

I still hold out hope that over time more of the systematic cheating comes out - and that eventually they will both be fully exposed and rightly ostracized for the contemptible cheating scum they are

That would be nice, but Goodell and the league will do everything possible to prevent specifics from becoming public.  Two things matter to them:

 

1) Maintaining their authority.  That means when they tell a team to stop doing something, that team obeys.  This is where the Cheats could get hammered.  It’s why they got hit hard for Spygate and it’s why the Saints got hit so hard for Bountygate.  Both teams were told to stop and both kept doing them.  That sure seems to be the case here. 

 

2) Maintaining to the public that the league is beyond reproach.  A big aspect of this is not allowing dirty laundry to become public - especially anything that could call into question the legitimacy of games.  That’s a fine line to walk because they have to hammer teams like the Cheats while selling the public on the idea that the outcomes of games were not impacted - which really defies logic.  Of course games were won due to cheating (and not just by the Cheats).

So that’s where this sits.  I have to think Goodell will come down hard on them if there’s something to this (and it looks like there is), but it might not all be done publicly.  If this is Brady’s last season (and I’ve thought that it would be since he reworked his contract) maybe it’ll be Belichick’s too.  I wouldn’t be surprised to see this swept under the rug if he agreed to retire.  His other option might be a big fine and suspension that would hurt his legacy (and pocketbook) as well as the league’s reputation.  Toss in the reality of a lost draft pick or two and a big fine and Kraft might be more willing to let it go too if that would be reduced to a modest fine. 
 

Maybe that is just wishful thinking, but this is bad PR for the NFL and a slap in the face to Goodell personally.   Something is going to be done about it. 

[row_33]

1 hour ago, DJB said:

NFL needs to really punish them severely. 

 

My suggestion  is amputation  of Brady right arm.

 

won't facing the Bills twice in the next few weeks be punishment enough?

 

[Kelly the Dog]

This is hilarious. Sorry if already posted. 

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bostonglobe.com/sports/patriots/2019/12/10/patriots-may-deserve-benefit-doubt-this-one/PGTvBxvnyKxoTi8epoOVcK/story.html%3foutputType=amp