Reportedly McDermott needed to be restrained in the tunnel at halftime

[Alphadawg7]

2 hours ago, stosh64 said:

They deserve to get hurt pulling this classless move.  **** everyone involved with this sleazy play.

 

Why are people upset?  It’s silly to be upset that an opposing team tried a trick play.  Your job as a defense is to take each play seriously for just this reason.  It’s the offenses job to fool the defense literally on their intentions every single play Of every single game.  
 

Pretty silly for people to be upset about it.  A kneel down is a play like any other and by no means does it require to actually kneel down.  If you can catch the opponent sleeping and surprise them and maybe score then good for you, do it.  
 

If we did this play successfully, everyone would be raving about instead of complaining.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

Good.

 

Even if you're wrong, give 'em an earful.

 

Refs are human; they look for makeup calls. We got 'em when we needed 'em too.

 

Gotta work the refs; the good ones all do it.

 

I agree with this too. Refs are human. At all levels of all sports you have to work them. I had plenty of run ins with refs as a soccer coach but you always go in after and see them in their changing room and explain yourself calmly and politely and shake hands. The next time you see that ref it might just help you. 

[ThurmasThoman]

3 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

For as much as the fans drink in that stadium I'm waiting for the full field fan incursion. Worst officiated game I have watched in a long time.

To be honest, the Patriots/Chiefs game that followed was the worst officiated game I've ever seen, and it was the Patriots who (for once) got the short end of the stick.

[Max Fischer]

15 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

 

Then you haven’t been paying attention the last few weeks, starting with the non call in New Orleans( ironically enough) vs CAR . 

 

Oh, you mean that ONE call.  So sorry, so that's what now, 5% overturned?  ?

[ThurmasThoman]

3 hours ago, Talley56 said:

I guess some of us just won’t accept the fact that suspect calls happened both ways and we truly lost fair and square yesterday.  The no call on the PI everyone is upset about looked very weak and I’m sure every team, including the Bills, have gotten away with it numerous times.  If officiating is why McDermott was so upset then it makes me disappointed in him.

Bills definitely lost fair and square, tbh I didn't even think the officiating was poor in our game. Like I said in the post above, the Patriots got jobbed way worse yesterday.

Yesterday was a great loss for the Bills--they hung with the best team in the league, had a chance to tie on the last play, didn't shoot themselves in the foot, and honestly were ready for the big stage. A win would have been gravy, but it was the first time since Flutie was QB that I can remember the team just.... looking like an actual competent NFL team for the entirety of a really big game.

I was way, way, way worse for the wear after the Cleveland loss--that one was frustrating and one we should have had.

[Boatdrinks]

Just now, Max Fischer said:

 

Oh, you mean that ONE call.  So sorry, so that's what now, 5% overturned?  ?

Nope, there have been others. Two yesterday in the early games. Ex NFL official John Parry alluded to this happening in the NY post a few weeks ago. That very weekend, it started. Not a coincidence and if a fan knows this , the Bills HC certainly should. 

[Max Fischer]

2 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

 Not a coincidence and if a fan knows this , the Bills HC certainly should. 

 

Thanks, this is helpful comment, I'll know to ignore you from now on. 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by Max Fischer

[Boatdrinks]

1 minute ago, Max Fischer said:

 

That's this is helpful comment, I'll know to ignore you from now on. 

 

 

Okay. Not sure why the overreaction, but I’m not offended by your response . Knowledge is power, though. 

[Just in Atlanta]

Who knows? CBS never showed it. And the color announcer never talked about it. Redonkulous. .  

[BuffaloBud]

3 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

 

The part-time thing does not bother me as much as the fact they are awful.  I'm not sure, but I think college FB is part-time as well.  The problem is that there is zero accountability apparently besides not getting the "big games."  And who is grading them.  I mean, missing 12 men in a huddle should be a fine.  plain and simple.  

 

I'm in the minority and didn't mind it.  It's against the Bills defense, the Ravens know they needed points, and there was a chance at catching the D sleeping.  Reminded me of Marino (I think) faking the clocking years ago.  

Officials (not the crew, but each official on the crew) are graded on every play by the ref mgmt and NFL.  That's how they determine the playoff and Super Bowl officiating crews.  Reward the best.

[DrDawkinstein]

38 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Why are people upset?  It’s silly to be upset that an opposing team tried a trick play.  Your job as a defense is to take each play seriously for just this reason.  It’s the offenses job to fool the defense literally on their intentions every single play Of every single game.  
 

Pretty silly for people to be upset about it.  A kneel down is a play like any other and by no means does it require to actually kneel down.  If you can catch the opponent sleeping and surprise them and maybe score then good for you, do it.  
 

If we did this play successfully, everyone would be raving about instead of complaining.

 

Because it's not just a "trick play" that uses redirection, or a WR as a QB. It takes advantage of a team backing off because the offense is giving itself up. It's a crappy move, and one that only puts their own team in danger, because the next time they try to kill the clock or run victory formation, I hope a DL doesnt go easy on them, blows up the center and pushes him on Jackson's ankle.

 

Same way the Ravens player got a penalty for waving for a fair catch and then blocking. It's dirty to pretend you are "giving up" within the rules, and then take a shot at someone.

 

It's like calling "TRUCE" as a kid, and then jabbing the other kid in the stomach when he takes you for your word. Dick move.

 

Sure, no one here would be complaining if we did it, but I'd understand why the other team wouldnt like it. Risky move just to put your own players in danger later down the line.

[BuffaloSol]

3 hours ago, JESSEFEFFER said:

Ok.  The only time I paid attention to McDermott talking with SL official was after this play:  Ravens player signals fair catch and vacates the area of the ball.  Bills player catches the ball and it is marked at the 8.  Ravens are penalized because their return man had made a block after the fair catch signal.  The ball gets spotted at the 6.  Huh?  8 divided by 2 = 6?  Anyone got a better explanation for what happened?  It seemed coach was upset with that too but not vein poppingly so.

I was livid at this!

Seriously how do you not get fired at the highest level of your profession when you do something like this?

[fansince88]

4 hours ago, HOUSE said:

Broken clapper, it could happen to anyone

Would only clap off and not on is what I am hearing

[Max Fischer]

56 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

Okay. Not sure why the overreaction, but I’m not offended by your response . Knowledge is power, though. 

 

Yes, it "could" have been overturned but the league rate of overturned PI calls is 5%. You allude to two calls in other games, DURING the Bills game, as if that has any impact on the one they were playing. Sure, we could have a useless debate whether the call would have been overturned but it's not an "overreaction" to mock fans who somehow believe coaches are not aware that, at best, the league is overturning even fairly blatant PI calls only a small percentage of the time. 

[Alphadawg7]

49 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Because it's not just a "trick play" that uses redirection, or a WR as a QB. It takes advantage of a team backing off because the offense is giving itself up. It's a crappy move, and one that only puts their own team in danger, because the next time they try to kill the clock or run victory formation, I hope a DL doesnt go easy on them, blows up the center and pushes him on Jackson's ankle.

 

Same way the Ravens player got a penalty for waving for a fair catch and then blocking. It's dirty to pretend you are "giving up" within the rules, and then take a shot at someone.

 

It's like calling "TRUCE" as a kid, and then jabbing the other kid in the stomach when he takes you for your word. Dick move.

 

Sure, no one here would be complaining if we did it, but I'd understand why the other team wouldnt like it. Risky move just to put your own players in danger later down the line.

Come on, how is it any riskier than any other play?   That’s total nonsense.  If the defense takes the play off and isn’t ready in case of a fake then that’s undisciplined football and they got hurt by their own mistake.  Period.

 

This was not end of game, there was time on clock and game was in first half still with game on the line.  
 

Any defender not paying attention there is playing undisciplined football.  

[ColoradoBills]

1 hour ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Because it's not just a "trick play" that uses redirection, or a WR as a QB. It takes advantage of a team backing off because the offense is giving itself up. It's a crappy move, and one that only puts their own team in danger, because the next time they try to kill the clock or run victory formation, I hope a DL doesnt go easy on them, blows up the center and pushes him on Jackson's ankle.

 

Same way the Ravens player got a penalty for waving for a fair catch and then blocking. It's dirty to pretend you are "giving up" within the rules, and then take a shot at someone.

 

It's like calling "TRUCE" as a kid, and then jabbing the other kid in the stomach when he takes you for your word. Dick move.

 

Sure, no one here would be complaining if we did it, but I'd understand why the other team wouldnt like it. Risky move just to put your own players in danger later down the line.

 

Yes it was.  Any HC playing the Ravens should let the officials know about this and play accordingly.

It wasn't a good look by the Ravens and they should reconsider it as a play in their playbook.

[DrDawkinstein]

19 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

Come on, how is it any riskier than any other play?   That’s total nonsense.  If the defense takes the play off and isn’t ready in case of a fake then that’s undisciplined football and they got hurt by their own mistake.  Period.

 

This was not end of game, there was time on clock and game was in first half still with game on the line.  
 

Any defender not paying attention there is playing undisciplined football.  

 

Ok, so you are in the camp that the DLine should go 100% in every victory formation? Ok, fair enough, see how far that gets them.

[The Frankish Reich]

5 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible officiating at the end of the 1st half is my guess.  Ravens had 12 men on the field and there was no call.  Then there was the blatent PI at the end of the half, but he can't be too upset about that since he did not challenge it.  I could see challenging it, getting screwed, and then being upset.  

 

Interested to hear if there is anything more.  

 

Glad to see him fired up.  The officiating in the 1st half was terrible, much better in the 2nd.  

On not throwing the challenge flag: someday some analytics guy will do a chart on “when to challenge/when not to challenge a PI mom-call.” But even if the chances are slim (maybe 10% chance of getting an obvious PI non-call overturned?), my gut tells me you gotta challenge when you’re talking about a possible 30 yard gain. Losing the timeout just isn’t that big a deal; just run the offense a little faster and you’ll save that time. Losing the right to challenge a future call may be a bigger deal, but I don’t recall ever seeing that matter until the Pats-Chiefs game yesterday. The risk-return is so heavily in favor of challenging when it’s a big yardage play. 

[stosh64]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBill963 said:

You want the real explanation? Or like everyone else are you going to schluff it off and act like this is impossible?

 

The NFL is highly scripted. Vegas is a very important aspect of this. You guys are all confused bc you don’t know who actually controls the NFL and what their agenda is. 

 

You our make a great and obvious point—how can such a ridiculously profitable organization seemingly not be able to figure out how to improve their referee issue? It’s bc they don’t want to. And you all just buy the excuse that they’re humans who make mistakes and it’s a fast game and they’re just not good blah blah blah. 

 

This is allows them to steer games very effectively without any traction being gained to the argument that they’re rigging this. 

 

Use the the hottest two word term going and say I’m crazy but this is how it works. Don’t believe me? Get used to being angry and confused about this.

I think you missed this post by the snarky way you replied. Although snark seems to be the preferred method of communication by many here, so who knows.

5 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Agreed that they need to be held accountable.

Seems the nfl makes a conscious decision to keep the status quo with officiating instead of trying to improve it.

There is only 1 reason to keep the status quo and that is criminal and could possibly kill the nfl.

I am open to all possibilities, one thing I do know is it's obvious this goes way beyond being a 'human error' issue.

[Boatdrinks]

1 hour ago, Max Fischer said:

 

Yes, it "could" have been overturned but the league rate of overturned PI calls is 5%. You allude to two calls in other games, DURING the Bills game, as if that has any impact on the one they were playing. Sure, we could have a useless debate whether the call would have been overturned but it's not an "overreaction" to mock fans who somehow believe coaches are not aware that, at best, the league is overturning even fairly blatant PI calls only a small percentage of the time. 

The point is that other coaches are now challenging them , as they are now being overturned. You have to discount earlier in the season when it was obvious that the league did not want these calls overturned regardless of the obvious video evidence. That 5% rate is artificially low. It’s worthy of debate in a game where yards were extremely hard to come by. 

[BuffaloBill963]

8 minutes ago, stosh64 said:

I think you missed this post by the snarky way you replied. Although snark seems to be the preferred method of communication by many here, so who knows.

I am open to all possibilities, one thing I do know is it's obvious this goes way beyond being a 'human error' issue.

There was zero snark in my reply. Everything I said was spot on and sincere.

[Tesla03]

Hopefully that energy transfers to sunday night 

 

McD for the most part has been doing his job this season, he has the defense prepared every week (except eagles game) 

 

his OC and QB have been letting him down a lot. 

[KOKBILLS]

43 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

On not throwing the challenge flag: someday some analytics guy will do a chart on “when to challenge/when not to challenge a PI mom-call.” But even if the chances are slim (maybe 10% chance of getting an obvious PI non-call overturned?), my gut tells me you gotta challenge when you’re talking about a possible 30 yard gain. Losing the timeout just isn’t that big a deal; just run the offense a little faster and you’ll save that time. Losing the right to challenge a future call may be a bigger deal, but I don’t recall ever seeing that matter until the Pats-Chiefs game yesterday. The risk-return is so heavily in favor of challenging when it’s a big yardage play. 

 

Agreed, 

 

The criteria we've heard all year is that it has to be blatant...Well...I have no idea if clearly making early contact, including contact with the back of the receivers head making it impossible for the receiver to make a play on the ball, is blatant...But I'm guessing it's pretty close...

 

Should have challenged...?

[Bills Survivor]

Love to see it.  Sean is generally a respectful guy but he has high standards of performance and those refs were not calling the game as it was being played in the first half.  I;m glad Sean accosted them, it is his job to say something and he did.  No excuse for botching the twelve men in the huddle  call.  Its one thing to miss a call during live action when it is a matter of a judgement.  But you're a team of professionals and that demonstrated an unjustifiable lack of attention for every official to miss that call.  A kindergartner can tell the difference between eleven and twelve, do you're ***** jobs.    . 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

Not sure I have ever seen anyone get that mad over a missed 12 guys in the huddle. They didn’t have 12 when they ran the play, did they? 

[MJS]

3 hours ago, Agent 91 said:

Thank you!!! They were gifting us yards in the second half. First downs tooo 

But there were justifiable reasons for those calls.

[Pokebball]

15 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Not sure I have ever seen anyone get that mad over a missed 12 guys in the huddle. They didn’t have 12 when they ran the play, did they? 

Both are penalties

[LSHMEAB]

4 hours ago, dneveu said:

 

I just felt like - its too risky with them never overturning it.  Id rather keep the Timeout which we'll need later

I think it was worth a shot and at that moment, the Bills offense NEEDED momentum. Tough call considering they rarely overturn them, but it was pretty blatant. They ended up having a shot at the end and TO's didn't come into play, but that's impossible to predict. Who knows. Emotionally, I definitely wanted to see that red flag because it felt like the game was slipping away.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

11 minutes ago, Pokebball said:

Both are penalties

yeah— but one is just a technical violation really. It would be another matter if they ran the play with 12 guys.

[BillnutinHouston]

36 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

Not sure I have ever seen anyone get that mad over a missed 12 guys in the huddle. They didn’t have 12 when they ran the play, did they? 

 

No, the 12th man ran off the field before the play, but it was right in front of the ref.

[Pokebball]

11 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

yeah— but one is just a technical violation really. It would be another matter if they ran the play with 12 guys.

No, it's more than a technical violation.  It would allow a team to change their personnel and scheme, depending who comes off the field.

[CLTbills]

3 hours ago, BuffaloSol said:

I was livid at this!

Seriously how do you not get fired at the highest level of your profession when you do something like this?

I saw that too. Ball was downed at the eight, and there was a "half the distance" penalty that moved the ball to the 6 instead of the 4. Huh?

[Punching Bag]

7 hours ago, SectionC3 said:

we should have blown them up on their victory kneels at the end of the game.  This was bush league.  

 

Something like this?

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

18 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Something like this?

 

 

Since they all occured before whistle would u only mark off 15 yards?

[Punching Bag]

2 minutes ago, dneveu said:

 

Since they all occured before whistle would u only mark off 15 yards?

 

Hopefully offsetting penalties.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

5 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

Hopefully offsetting penalties.

 

Probably several ejections though. Who knows

[Rocket94]

9 hours ago, CaptnCoke11 said:

Had to be the 12 men in the huddle no call.  He was fuming on the sidelines.  The vein in his forehead was in serious jeopardy of popping. 

Yeah...he has that one milky vein...you can see it!

[Jauronimo]

3 hours ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

Ok, so you are in the camp that the DLine should go 100% in every victory formation? Ok, fair enough, see how far that gets them.

The Schiano School for How to Alienate Your Peers and Piss Off Everyone.

[TigerJ]

9 hours ago, RyanC883 said:

terrible officiating at the end of the 1st half is my guess.  Ravens had 12 men on the field and there was no call.  Then there was the blatent PI at the end of the half, but he can't be too upset about that since he did not challenge it.  I could see challenging it, getting screwed, and then being upset.  

 

Interested to hear if there is anything more.  

 

Glad to see him fired up.  The officiating in the 1st half was terrible, much better in the 2nd.  

The league is made it abundantly clear that just being a blatant pass interference is not going to get a non-call overturned 95% of the time.  The DB actually has to commit assault.  Challenging PI is a good way to lose time outs.       

[RyanC883]

5 hours ago, BuffaloBud said:

Officials (not the crew, but each official on the crew) are graded on every play by the ref mgmt and NFL.  That's how they determine the playoff and Super Bowl officiating crews.  Reward the best.

 

yeah, but that is not much of a grading scale.  The worst thing that happens is you get 16 reg season games.  Overall officiating is poor, and there are likely better refs in college.  Time to weed out the bottom 20 percent.