Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I'm not 100% sure but I think all three of them came on first down, which makes them even worse. Somebody correct me if I'm having a senior moment...... Also worth noting that two of them were thrown at Zay Jones who didn't manage to compete for either of them. If you're looking for a way to get your QB to stop looking your way, standing around watching defenders attack balls that you should be attacking is an excellent strategy. 12 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Sounds like an agenda. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, Simon said: I'm not 100% sure but I think all three of them came on first down, which makes them even worse. Somebody correct me if I'm having a senior moment...... Also worth noting that two of them were thrown at Zay Jones who didn't manage to compete for either of them. If you're looking for a way to get your QB to stop looking your way, standing around watching defenders attack balls that you should be attacking is an excellent strategy. Zay did fight somewhat for the one on the side line. What I saw today was a lack of Allen rolling to his left. I just noticed it today. I will keep an eye on that. It also seemed as though Belichick knew Allen rolled to his right more often than left. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 34 minutes ago, JinxedBill said: You’re right. He’s super bad. Everyone who said he’d never be good you were so right, must be good to feel vindicated on an anonymous message board where the points don’t matter. Actually I didn't say anything remotely resembling that and I have stated on more than one occasion that I think he is going to be a good NFL QB. So feel free to **** off and go pollute somebody else's thread. 7 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) The game plan was curious, at best. I think Gore was 9 for 88 yards at one point. A bit more of that might have been nice. . Edited September 30, 2019 by Augie 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Allen also threw a couple off his back foot. Not kinda leaning back, but while striding backwards. We saw him stand tall in a muddied pocket for the last 3 weeks, but today he wouldn't for some reason. It was a little frustrating. If he had just kept his cool for a split second more he could've made a better throw. I'll need to watch it closer on the Game Pass. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: Zay did fight somewhat for the one on the side line. What I saw today was a lack of Allen rolling to his left. I just noticed it today. I will keep an eye on that. It also seemed as though Belichick knew Allen rolled to his right more often than left. He never even left his feet. He just turned around and watched the DB attack the ball. Good call on his tendency to roll toward what he can see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Otreply Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Sounds like some Zay lover boys ???, you all all know Zay is not, shall we say, shining, right?? We have issues with the O, your boy is part of those issues, not the whole problem for sure, but certainly part of it. Go Bills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, LeGOATski said: Allen also threw a couple off his back foot. Not kinda leaning back, but while striding backwards. We saw him stand tall in a muddied pocket for the last 3 weeks, but today he wouldn't for some reason. It was a little frustrating. If he had just kept his cool for a split second more he could've made a better throw. I'll need to watch it closer on the Game Pass. Yeah, I remember saying uh-oh as soon as he let the one pick go while he was floating backwards. I understand the OLine was atrocious and he had guys around his feet all day, but he needs to recognize that all his accuracy issues occur when he's not throwing from a solid platform. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 (edited) Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Edit: I'm going out on a limb that Zay won't be on the team next year. Edited September 30, 2019 by VW82 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, VW82 said: Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Yeah, they were behind schedule again because of yet another dipstick penalty on the OLine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 If I remember the passes to Zay that were picks, they were more than 10 yards. Zay is not an intermediate to long receiver. He does better with short to intermediate passes. I don't know why Daboll has Zay running longer routes, he just doesn't do a good job with them. It doesn't help that Josh was not at all accurate with longer passes; he overthrew the receiver by 5 yards on a couple of occasions I recall seeing. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. I've reached the point where I just no longer see any reason whatsoever for him to be on the field with the offense. I know the WR corps is weak but at least give somebody a shot who "feels" like an NFL WR. I wonder if Zay can block a gunner on return teams, cuz nobody else is doing it. It would be nice ot see Andre Roberts have even a little room to work 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. well Zay did reel in 4 yards on two catches and 8 targets Seriously I'm at the point I want KB back 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 None of the picks were gimmes's. Great catches. But questionable decisions by Josh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. And in each of those throws, his mechanics were simply bad. We needed a dink and dunk offense, but went for the heavyweight fight! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The LB covering the RB fell down on the second pick. If Allen was looking short instead of deep he could have hit the RB for a big gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, ganesh said: And in each of those throws, his mechanics were simply bad. We needed a dink and dunk offense, but went for the heavyweight fight! I hope Daboll sees this and implements more of the quick, shorter passes. They came out in the third quarter running shorter patterns and had some success. They're not going to be able to exactly mimic NE's offense, but at least start to trend that way. Our o-line doesn't pass protect well enough for longer patterns nor is Allen accurate enough. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
row_33 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. you mean the Pats sat down and wrote the book on Allen’s weaknesses and exploited them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 21 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. I'm not trying to absolve Allen; all three throws were terrible decisions. But two of the three would have been nothing worse than an incompletion on 1st down if Zay shows any willingness to attack the ball. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maine-iac Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: I hope Daboll sees this and implements more of the quick, shorter passes. They came out in the third quarter running shorter patterns and had some success. They're not going to be able to exactly mimic NE's offense, but at least start to trend that way. Our o-line doesn't pass protect well enough for longer patterns nor is Allen accurate enough. I'm not entirely sure there weren't short passes there to be had. On several plays I've watched replays of there are short throws Allen is passing up to look deep and then either misses deep or holds the ball too long. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Simon said: I'm not trying to absolve Allen; all three throws were terrible decisions. But two of the three would have been nothing worse than an incompletion on 1st down if Zay shows any willingness to attack the ball. I haven’t gone back and watched them, but at the time and with replay, it was good catches by the Pats defenses and short of the receivers. I don’t think any of our guys could’ve prevented the INTs from happening Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, VW82 said: Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Edit: I'm going out on a limb that Zay won't be on the team next year. I say he doesn't see week 17.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Maine-iac said: I'm not entirely sure there weren't short passes there to be had. On several plays I've watched replays of there are short throws Allen is passing up to look deep and then either misses deep or holds the ball too long. If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Just now, Happy Gilmore said: If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. We dont have a deep game Only guy that can get downfield is Brown and I'm not sure he is the same burner that was on the Cards. Allen needs better decision making and better targets. Can't they trade for someone? Zay Jones 18 targets 7 catches for 69 yards 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah John Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The picks were all Allen's fault. Terrible decisions. That's not to say Zay Jones is an NFL-caliber receiver. We're asking him to fill the shoes of Robert Woods, and his feet are much too small. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Blitz Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 31 minutes ago, Virgil said: I don't get all the Zay hate on the picks. The biggest thing I noticed is that the Pats secondary was sitting back and waiting on the ball, vs running with our guys and playing the ball and the man. In each case, there was someone over top running towards the ball in support. That's just good, over the top zone coverage. That's why it's completely on Allen to me. On each INT, the Pats were playing center field and reacting to Josh's throws. That's a lot different than Josh throwing it up and letting our guy make a play for it. I feel like I'm describing this wrong. Sounds like a team that had zero concern for our run game and letting the 6-7 guys in the box worry about Gore/Allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 minute ago, DuckyBoys said: We dont have a deep game Only guy that can get downfield is Brown and I'm not sure he is the same burner that was on the Cards. Allen needs better decision making and better targets. Can't they trade for someone? Zay Jones 18 targets 7 catches for 69 yards There is talk (on this board, anyway) about trading for AJ Green or Stephon Diggs. I would personally prefer Diggs, but who are we going to trade? Let's say Cincy or Minny needs a d-linemen or o-linemen, I'd trade Trent Murphy or Dion Dawkins in a heartbeat. Not sure that would fly with either team, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB2SF Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Maine-iac said: The LB covering the RB fell down on the second pick. If Allen was looking short instead of deep he could have hit the RB for a big gain. Absolutely right -- Yeldon had no one within 20 yards of him because of the LB falling down, and raised his hand so Josh could see him. Terrible decision to throw into double coverage instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 28 minutes ago, Happy Gilmore said: Zay is not an intermediate to long receiver. Fixed that for you... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShakAttack Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, UB2SF said: Absolutely right -- Yeldon had no one within 20 yards of him because of the LB falling down, and raised his hand so Josh could see him. Terrible decision to throw into double coverage instead. Say what you want about Barkley being a disadvantage next week, but he ain’t missing that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. It's never a good idea...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 3 hours ago, Happy Gilmore said: If Allen is still forsaking a higher probability shorter pass for the big gain, he hasn't learned from last year. I think Daboll tried drilling that into him, and Allen acknowledged this in the off season. Josh definitely holds the ball way too long when looking deep. Those scrambles and long passes into double coverage were not where Daboll wanted Josh to go with the ball. If they were, he would not have been yelling in Allen's face on the sideline and clearly saying use your head while tapping his head. Allen has to learn to take what the defense is giving him and if it ain't there toss it away. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 5 hours ago, VW82 said: Any observations on the first half fumble that we miraculously recovered? Edit: I'm going out on a limb that Zay won't be on the team next year. Zay's status on the team should be a week to week question at this point 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CSBill Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I, like many, think Duke should be called up. But I also wonder why they have not put Andre Roberts on the field since he has returned. He was very productive in pre-season, and I would certainly take him over Zay Jones right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCbillsfan Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: Never throw the ball deep to Zay Jones. I am not saying any of the interceptions were not Josh's fault. But throwing to Zay is not a good strategy. He does not track the ball. He does not fight for the ball. He is not fleet of foot. It's just not a good idea and they do it over and over. Never throw the ball to Zay Jones is my vote. He is just bad. He rarely makes a positive play despite numerous opportunities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xwnyer Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 What amazed me is as well as Gore was running at times we never tried play action to try to get the D to bite on the run stop. Really struggling with edge rushers especially on right side of the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KW95 - JA17 Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, DCbillsfan said: Never throw the ball to Zay Jones is my vote. He is just bad. He rarely makes a positive play despite numerous opportunities. No one goes there, but ....Zay Should have been cut after the drop against the Panthers 2 years ago. And especially after seeing Jesus! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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