RyanC883 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Kelly the Dog said: I was only talking prospect, which is what we were discussing. Wilson has it all. He has great technique, footwork, ball-handling, running, scrambling, can throw accurately running to either side with tremendous velocity, was smart (learned the Wisconsin offense in two weeks), etc. Virtually everything you want in a prospect he had in spades. Except height. Everyone including the Seahawks thought his height would affect his play in the NFL to some degree, and everyone was obviously wrong. Everything else he has in spades. exactly. and it still puzzles me we did not draft him. Brees and others (including Flutie when on Bills) had already proven that with the other stuff height wont hold you back. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jkeerie Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, RyanC883 said: exactly. and it still puzzles me we did not draft him. Brees and others (including Flutie when on Bills) had already proven that with the other stuff height wont hold you back. Because our GM was an idiot. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 So, what will it take to get Diggs?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 7 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: I love watching Wilson, too, but he was a WAY better prospect than Mahomes. He did everything well except grow. I agree with you about the streetball idea, although Mahomes may be an abberration. I don't know where you get this...........Wilson was considered too small and hadn't even been a pro prospect until his senior year. He was a sub 60% passer for his first 3 seasons at NC State and wasn't exactly making up for it with big plays. He made a big leap as a senior but he would have been lucky to be drafted at all if he declared after his junior year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atlbillsfan1975 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 42 minutes ago, RyanC883 said: So, what will it take to get Diggs?? I don’t think it’s happening. A team would have to make Minnie an offer they couldn’t refuse like two very high draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
purple haze Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: I was only talking prospect, which is what we were discussing. Wilson has it all. He has great technique, footwork, ball-handling, running, scrambling, can throw accurately running to either side with tremendous velocity, was smart (learned the Wisconsin offense in two weeks), etc. Virtually everything you want in a prospect he had in spades. Except height. Everyone including the Seahawks thought his height would affect his play in the NFL to some degree, and everyone was obviously wrong. Everything else he has in spades. Yes. Wilson had "it" and it was obvious. If he were three inches taller he'd have been picked top 5. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, RyanC883 said: So, what will it take to get Diggs?? Probably a 1st and a 2nd round pick, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LikeIGiveADarn Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Probably a 1st and a 2nd round pick, at least. 2nd and 4th for Diggs. 3rd, Zay and Shaq for AJ Green. Get it done Beane!! Edited October 5, 2019 by LikeIGiveADarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsbackto81 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 54 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Probably a 1st and a 2nd round pick, at least. He's good but not worth that type of compensation especially with his current contract. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 6 hours ago, LikeIGiveADarn said: From 2000 to 2005, you would have been crazy to suggest Brady over Manning. 2005 to present? Not so much. For me, Manning is easily an all time great, but he also is over rated a bit within those all time rankings because he wasn't as good in the post season as he was in the regular season. 9 times with the Colts he was the #1 seed in the AFC and didn't win a playoff game...thats an NFL record by the way. He had the greatest offense in NFL history with the Broncos and got blown out by a defensive and run oriented Seahawk team in the Super Bowl too. I have long stated the following: Brady > Manning Warner > Manning I would take Kurt Warner in a heartbeat over Peyton Manning in the playoffs. Peyton Manning was king of the regular season and a then not as good in the post season (see A-Rod in MLB) while Kurt Warner not only was a stud and HOF level QB during the regular season, but he was hands down one of the best ever in the Post Season. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 2 hours ago, billsbackto81 said: He's good but not worth that type of compensation especially with his current contract. I’m not saying he’s worth that, just saying what they’d probably be asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 I don't think they should or will let either go. Last year, minny got a new toy in cousins and threw way too much. With cousins at the helm it blew up in there face. 8-7 record when they had sb aspirations. Cousins isn't as good as minny thought he was. I've only watched 1 of their games and they seem to be running more. Those wrs were loving the touches last year, but it appears minny doesn't want cousins throwing 40-50 times a game. And the wr are frustrated, most would be after last year. He's on pace for a little over 2900 yds after almost 4300 last yr. Not good, but minny needs those 2 and would be foolish to get rid of either just cuz they're crying like little *****. Minny's a good team and their window is now. They have a really good d, a great rb, stacked at wr and have a really good te. Cousins needs to play better. If they go on a winning streak. I think those 2 quiet down a bit. Their only 1 game out in their division. If I'm management, no way do I let either go. This isn't the same situation as the phins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 16 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said: WAY better. Wilson was a better version of what he does now in college. He was better as a senior than RGIII who was said to have one of the best seasons of all time that same year. He did everything textbook, he was just short, his ONLY fault and the only reason he wasn't taken at the very top. You like stats so much. Mahomes averaged 8.5 per attempt, Wilson 10.3. Wilson threw 33 TDs and 4 INTs. Mahomes had a 157 rating and Wilson's was 192. Mahomes completed 67% and Wilson 73%. See my point above about talent levels in the two programs. Wisconsin was (and is) a powerhouse — 6 players drafted in the year Wilson came out (2012 draft): a first rounder, a second rounder, a third rounder (Wilson), a fourth, a fifth, and a sixth. They won the big 10 conference championship every year from 2010-2012 (Wilson played there in 2011). The year Mahomes was drafted, he was the only Tech player drafted and they went 5-7 because they had the worst defense in the nation. Regardless, Wilson should have been a first round pick, and if he came out in the last couple of years, he would have been a top-five pick given what we know now about Mahomes, Murray, Mayfield, and Wilson himself. Edited October 5, 2019 by dave mcbride 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: See my point above about talent levels in the two programs. Wisconsin was (and is) a powerhouse — 6 players drafted in the year Wilson came out (2012 draft): a first rounder, a second rounder, a third rounder (Wilson), a fourth, a fifth, and a sixth. They won the big 10 conference championship every year from 2010-2012 (Wilson played there in 2011). The year Mahomes was drafted, he was the only Tech player drafted and they went 5-7 because they had the worst defense in the nation. Regardless, Wilson should have been a first round pick, and if he came out in the last couple of years, he would have been a top-five pick given what we know now about Mahomes, Murray, Mayfield, and Wilson himself. I don’t think the fact he played at Wisc was the primary reason - people thought he was too short. And those people are dumb. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: I don’t think the fact he played at Wisc was the primary reason - people thought he was too short. And those people are dumb. KtD is bringing up stats in an attempt to show he was a better prospect than Mahomes, which is why I’m bringing the larger context in. Edited October 5, 2019 by dave mcbride 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Lot of teams whiffed on Wilson Short qbs rarely are able to figure out a way to succeed in the NFL. Mahomes thing is old. People have been stumping for the Bills to draft various qbs for the past 20 years Most of them not only didnt pan out but were terrible. I seem to remember people going ga ga over Brady Quinn and Jake Locker. We got Allen , happy to have him and lets see where we are by end of 2020. Back onto Stefon Diggs, next years FA wr class kind of sucks. Filling a void before the next off season seems prudent to me. Less holes we have the more focused Beane can be to not get distracted an reach for players from need. Depending on compensation he's worth a kick of the tires as is Green. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 54 minutes ago, dave mcbride said: KtD is bringing up stats in an attempt to show he was a better prospect than Mahomes, which is why I’m bringing the larger context in. That wasn’t my main point. I brought up those stats because you’re a big stat guy. The reason he was so good a prospect is because everything the scouts look for he excelled at. Except size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sammy Watkins' Rib Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 9/29/2019 at 4:56 PM, mattynh said: Diggs will not all of a sudden make Allen make better decisions. I know you dont agree but Diggs will have no noticeable impact on this offense. I think I agree. The guy that would probably make a bigger impact would be Emanuel Sanders. It would be like having two John Browns running around out there. I would kick the tires on Sanders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADOLBILZ Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: Lot of teams whiffed on Wilson Short qbs rarely are able to figure out a way to succeed in the NFL. Mahomes thing is old. People have been stumping for the Bills to draft various qbs for the past 20 years Most of them not only didnt pan out but were terrible. I seem to remember people going ga ga over Brady Quinn and Jake Locker. We got Allen , happy to have him and lets see where we are by end of 2020. Back onto Stefon Diggs, next years FA wr class kind of sucks. Filling a void before the next off season seems prudent to me. Less holes we have the more focused Beane can be to not get distracted an reach for players from need. Depending on compensation he's worth a kick of the tires as is Green. Josh Allen is the first QB that the moribund Bills franchise has traded up from their first pick to draft or even just selected with their original first pick in round one since 1960. Let's not pretend that anything close to adequate effort was made to address the QB position. People were right to be stumping for QB's.......in 2017 the Bills had just 2 of their first round picks on the roster to show for 17 years of missing the playoffs.........and yet went 9-7......further proving that first round picks are an over rated method of acquiring talent and ones not used on QB's are generally of negligible value in the big picture of franchise success. That being the case.........taking shots on the QB position in round 1 and risking failure is the smarter choice than renting a defensive player for 4-5 years..........which is what McD chose to do. Hopefully it works out but you don't put off addressing the QB position even if that means doing something like Arizona did last year...........a great QB is worth a mountain of first round picks. Edited October 5, 2019 by BADOLBILZ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 minute ago, BADOLBILZ said: Josh Allen is the first QB that the moribund Bills franchise has traded up from their first pick to draft or even just selected with their original first pick in round one since 1960. Let's not pretend that anything close to adequate effort was made to address the QB position. People were right to be stumping for QB's.......in 2017 the Bills had just 2 of their first round picks on the roster to show for 17 years of missing the playoffs.........and yet went 9-7......further proving that first round picks are an over rated method of acquiring talent and ones not used on QB's are generally of negligible value in the big picture of franchise success. That being the case.........taking shots on the QB position in round 1 and risking failure is the smarter choice than renting a defensive player for 4-5 years..........which is what McD chose to do. Hopefully it works out but you don't put off addressing the QB position even if that means doing something like Arizona did last year...........a great QB is worth a mountain of first round picks. You are correct My point was drafting qbs is potluck Mahomes may indeed be great but nobody could have predicted that a 100%. Just sick of hearing about mahomes. he's a Chief we have Allen time to let that dog lie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 The difference between Diggs/Green and sitting pat is that no one has to respect the outside of the field that is opposite John Brown now. If we want to be serious contenders and want to open the seams or stop letting people cheat safeties toward Brown we need someone on the other side who scares people. Green is higher risk because of the injury but has higher ability and will come at a cheaper price and can be a rental if he doesn't work out. Diggs is a risk because of attitude, what they are likely wanting for him, and if he flubs you are stuck with some contract term. He is however locked in at a reasonable price for a productive NFL wideout. Right now we need to look at KC as the standard bearer and say is there ever enough weapons? The answer is always no. Promoting Duke Williams vs signing a proven WR is not making us a contender, its accepting that we may make the playoffs but that we don't seriously believe we can win much when we get there IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njbuff Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) For debate sake............ if it’s not a WR the Bills are after and if it’s Trent Williams.............. Can Williams play RT, cause they won’t be moving Dawkins over to RT mid season. Would they? After all, if the Bills actually acquired an 8-time all pro LT, Dawkins probably doesn’t have a say in the matter and might have to slide over to the right side. Thank Edited October 5, 2019 by njbuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 10 hours ago, JoPar_v2 said: Probably a 1st and a 2nd round pick, at least. ....and according to the TBD'ers who are well versed in collegiate ball, the 2020 WR class is "the best in years"......no way McBeane coughs up a 1st or 2nd IMO...... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virgil Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ....and according to the TBD'ers who are well versed in collegiate ball, the 2020 WR class is "the best in years"......no way McBeane coughs up a 1st or 2nd IMO...... I’d rather lose a pick and get a proven player on a decent contract that roll the dice with a rookie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Just now, Virgil said: I’d rather lose a pick and get a proven player on a decent contract that roll the dice with a rookie .....what do you think is McBeane's style though?......I just see him as "pick(s) protective"........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: .....what do you think is McBeane's style though?......I just see him as "pick(s) protective"........ I see him as "win a championship protective." That means there will be a time where he will start to go for it and not do what he did to build the team. I just think in his mind that is probably next year or the year after with all the $ we have. Edited October 5, 2019 by Locomark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Locomark said: I see him as "win a championship protective." That means there will be a time where he will start to go for it and not do what he did to build the team. I just think in his mind that is probably next year or the year after with all the $ we have. ...very fair assessment IMO........he picks and chooses his "spots"...and so far so good..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveFreeman22 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 2:14 PM, whatdrought said: And then we used a first round pick to draft him. You still only get the one player for that pick. 2014 1st rounder + 2015 first rounder = Sammy Watkins in a Bills uniform. He cost us a total asset investment of 2 first round picks. Meanwhile, we could have had Mike Evans for the same price OBJ for 1 pick Brandin Cooks for 1 pick Devante Adams for 1 pick Jarvis Landry for 1 pick Allen Robinson for 1 pick. Now, obviously hindsight is 20-20 and there’s only so much we can fault them for. That being said, trading up to select what is one of the deepest positions of the draft is never smart. again, people just don't want to or can't comprehend what I said. it wasn't about the trade, it was about people complaining" WE GAVE UP 2 IST ROUNDERS TO DRAFT SAMMY WATKINS!!!" Again they didn't give up 2 1st rounders they gave up 1, and I understand the reasoning of the people who were against doing the deal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 11 hours ago, atlbillsfan1975 said: I don’t think it’s happening. A team would have to make Minnie an offer they couldn’t refuse like two very high draft picks. yeah, if it's anything above a 2nd, I don't see it happening. Even with a 2nd, I don't see the Bills doing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuckyBoys Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 Sammy Watkins has not worked out for anyone. Bills gave up too much draft capital. Rams paid too much for a 1 year rental Chiefs paying Sammy 16 Mill a year for limited production. Just now, RyanC883 said: yeah, if it's anything above a 2nd, I don't see it happening. Even with a 2nd, I don't see the Bills doing it. His contract is not crazy. A young top wr for a 2nd seems reasonable A 3rd for Green seems ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RyanC883 Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 24 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said: Sammy Watkins has not worked out for anyone. Bills gave up too much draft capital. Rams paid too much for a 1 year rental Chiefs paying Sammy 16 Mill a year for limited production. His contract is not crazy. A young top wr for a 2nd seems reasonable A 3rd for Green seems ok if no crazy contract a 2nd may be okay. I"m just thinking of how deep the WR class is. However, Diggs has already proven to be great. A lineup of Diggs, Brown, Beasly and Williams (based on potential) is a great lineup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 5, 2019 Share Posted October 5, 2019 1 hour ago, SteveFreeman22 said: again, people just don't want to or can't comprehend what I said. it wasn't about the trade, it was about people complaining" WE GAVE UP 2 IST ROUNDERS TO DRAFT SAMMY WATKINS!!!" Again they didn't give up 2 1st rounders they gave up 1, and I understand the reasoning of the people who were against doing the deal. We did give up two first rounders to draft him... 1 as part of the trade, and 1 as the draft. we gave up 1 great round pick to draft Ed Oliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tipster19 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 18 hours ago Diggs tweeted that there’s power in prayer. Regardless of who and where I think that he may have gotten his wish and that a trade is going to be announced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearwater cadet Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 On 10/3/2019 at 8:20 AM, Hapless Bills Fan said: Would much rather have Brown or Foster running those deep routes than Zay Jones. Edit: or Roberts for that matter Newbie fan, are ya? no that show how little I care for zay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillnutinHouston Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 23 hours ago, whatdrought said: We did give up two first rounders to draft him... 1 as part of the trade, and 1 as the draft. we gave up 1 great round pick to draft Ed Oliver. I think you mean that we gave up one, and used one for Watkins. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 ...ouch............... Sources: Vikings fine Stefon Diggs over $200,000 for unexcused absences from practice, meetings Chris Mortensen Adam Schefter 8:33 AM . Diggs missed all team meetings Monday and Tuesday as well as two practices, but he is expected to be active Sunday when the Vikings visit the New York Giants, according to sources. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27780366/sources-vikings-fine-stefon-diggs-200000-unexcused-absences-practice-meetings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 43 minutes ago, BillnutinHouston said: I think you mean that we gave up one, and used one for Watkins. Exactly. So the total investment in Watkins was 2 first round picks (plus a 4th, if I remember correctly.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 41 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...ouch............... Sources: Vikings fine Stefon Diggs over $200,000 for unexcused absences from practice, meetings Chris Mortensen Adam Schefter 8:33 AM . Diggs missed all team meetings Monday and Tuesday as well as two practices, but he is expected to be active Sunday when the Vikings visit the New York Giants, according to sources. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/27780366/sources-vikings-fine-stefon-diggs-200000-unexcused-absences-practice-meetings But they aren’t going to trade him? Seems unlikely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomark Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 Well if we don't go after Diggs or Green, the Pats will. We will again be left holding the bag asking why we can't have nice things and complaining about them instead. Why can't we finally be in front of our competition for once... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2019 Share Posted October 6, 2019 (edited) Diggs winks at media after saying he wants to stay in Minnesota lol http://bleacherreport.com/post/trending/0a8aa6fd-bc96-4f1f-a866-3e54b405c1fd Edited October 6, 2019 by Alphadawg7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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