Oliver currently is #4 in DT Pass Rush Win Rate

[John from Riverside]

52 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Thats good company to be in as a rookie.

He's been everything advertised and justifies his draft status.

 

Now Ford on the other hand............

If you think Ford has not justified his draft status you need to hit the pause button and think about it for a few minutes Sir

 

If he never becomes a great RT and ends up being a very good OG then totally the pick is still justified

[CEN-CAL17]

I’d like to see Oliver lined up outside like they do Donald for the Rams. 

 

With 4.7 speed and a 7.15 3 cone I think he’d do fine. 

 

 

[billsbackto81]

36 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

If you think Ford has not justified his draft status you need to hit the pause button and think about it for a few minutes Sir

 

If he never becomes a great RT and ends up being a very good OG then totally the pick is still justified

Perhaps.

Pretty sure he wasn't drafted to be a Guard though. 

[John from Riverside]

26 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Perhaps.

Pretty sure he wasn't drafted to be a Guard though. 

They specifically said that he would start out at RT.......but we can already see that he is a excellent OG

 

The problem here is that Beane did his job to well and found too many players good at a NFL postition......if you can call that a problem

[brianthomas]

Oliver wasnt hyped up as Aaron Donald, it was said he had Aaron Donald tendencies (could be compared to).

Aaron Donald is such a beast & dominant player, that not even Aaron Donald would be compared to Aaron Donald if he were being drafted.

Dude is just that good.

 

On a side note, its a good thing we drafted him instead of an offensive guy, bcuz we'd really be screwed right now with Harrison Phillips injured.

I like Ed & think he's been solid & cant wait to see what he turns into.

[billsfan89]

28 minutes ago, billsbackto81 said:

Perhaps.

Pretty sure he wasn't drafted to be a Guard though. 

 

10 years ago if you drafted a RT and had to kick him into Guard you might have been right that it would have disappointed. But given the new emphasis on interior pass rushing and the lack of imminent development for many offensive linemen in recent years getting a guard in early round 2 when you initially wanted a RT is far from a significant disappointment. Granted Beane finding two quality guards in the off-season makes Ford struggling at RT a bit of a sore spot but it at the very least adds depth and help the O-line long term. 

 

I still love the Ford pick as I think when you have a young QB it helps to have multiple young pieces along the O-line and outside of Dawkins going into the draft most of the O-line was older or unproven. So getting a second foundational young piece to the unit adds to the long term health of the unit. 

[Aireskoi]

3 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

I expect pretty much immediate impact from a top 10 pick, honestly.

 

Like Warren Sapp's rookie season?  He dropped to 12 due to allegations of drug use, but he was the standard used.

 

https://www.bucsnation.com/2011/7/2/2256389/gerald-mccoys-and-warren-sapps-rookie-seasons

 

We all know how Warren Sapp's career went: he is a surefire Hall of Famer. But not many remember Warren Sapp's rookie season, and for good reason: the highly-touted defensive tackle managed just 3 sacks and was relegated to backup duty after just five games. Newspapers of the time speak of Warren Sapp the Underachiever, a subpar rookie season and his own defensive coordinator was quoted as calling him a major disappointment. 

 

But in his second year Warren Sapp stepped up, sacking the quarterback 9 times. He turned into a dominating force, the core of an improving defense. So how did this happen? To say it in his own words, Sapp was "a blind dog in a meat house" in his rookie year. In other words: he had no idea what he was doing. The coaches used him differently every game, sometimes asking him to play head-up on offensive linemen, other times asking him to shoot gaps and penetrate. 

 

----------

 

DT is a tough transition from college to NFL.  Give the man a few games to find his way.

[BuffaloBill]

Awesome for Ed

[stinky finger]

4 hours ago, Patrick_Duffy said:

Would be great if he gets his 1st NFL sack on Brady.

 

As would his 2nd, 3rd and 4th. 

[TPS]

5 hours ago, Mark80 said:

But show me the baby!  I want that sack!

I don't want the sack, I want him to hit Brady as he throws and let that momentum drive his shoulder into his sternum....as it meets the ground....

[Coach Tuesday]

I hope he makes a pelt out of number 12 on Sunday.  Feast!

[CommonCents]

Little Oliver. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

Good now we need his 1st 3 sacks to come this weekend.

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment.

 

I guess collapsing pockets and beating double teams doesn't "change games".

 

I guess signing multiple new WRs/RBs/O-linemen/TEs, drafting a RG/RT, RB and two TEs, isn't addressing the offense.

 

I guess this is REALLY about being butthurt about not getting the guy YOU wanted, right?

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, brianthomas said:

Oliver wasnt hyped up as Aaron Donald, it was said he had Aaron Donald tendencies (could be compared to).

Aaron Donald is such a beast & dominant player, that not even Aaron Donald would be compared to Aaron Donald if he were being drafted.

Dude is just that good.

 

On a side note, its a good thing we drafted him instead of an offensive guy, bcuz we'd really be screwed right now with Harrison Phillips injured.

I like Ed & think he's been solid & cant wait to see what he turns into.

Except that the chain of events that led to Harrison getting injured wouldn't have happened.

[billsredneck1]

5 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:

I posted this earlier in another thread. and didn't get much response... hopefully its gets its due praise in here. Oliver hasn't gotten "home" yet but he's altered plenty of pockets and throws so far.

 

Oliver collapsing the pocket could mean everything this week

newhouse at LT and a backup center?  it's gotta happen....and at home?   come on...we should see carnage

3 hours ago, Call_Of_Ktulu said:

I wish Kyle and Oliver could’ve played together, what a DT combo they would’ve made. 

 

If you can create pressure with your front four without blitzing you have a huge advantage. 

but that never works against belichek. that philosophy will get another loss against them.

[JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS]

4 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

For people stating he hasn’t done much you are terrible at watching football. I’m constantly seeing him collapse the pocket forcing the qb to scramble and throw the ball away for an incomplete pass. It was extremely noticeable in the first 2 games. I get it, it’s a tough game to follow with lots of action going on at once but the people asking  more of Oliver at this point have been down right laughable. 

Ikr.  Funny, when Im watching the game or listening to NFL shows the retired pros who actually know something about how football really works gush all over about Oliver.  Its only after the game that fantasy sports nerds and draftnik self-promoters talk about what a disappointment he is, because he doesn't have any sacks.

 

I know very little about football "in  the trenches" but even I can see Ed Oliver is a BEAST who is disrupting the %&^% out of the offense.  I cant remember who but one of the retired pros said Oliver may be the steal of the entire draft.

[CSBill]

A philosophical question about these stats: I noticed the Packers are high in each of the offensive positions (4 o-lineman). But, the Packers have not been good on offense this year. I'm sure there are many factors--as with any team. But . . .

• Does one weak link, that can be exploited by the D, undo all the good of the other four?
• And, does that one weak link over-inflate the grades of the others? How? By letting the Defense focus their best and most aggressive efforts at the weaker points, and then basically giving the better people a pass? Thus, inflating the number to the good of the better people? So while their grade may be high, the over-all results may still be poor?

I think these stats have value, but if my theory above has any element of truth to it, the rankings might need a algorithm adjustment that considers the poor play of those around you, which results in less work you have to do while your teammate if doing a good imitation of a turnstile?

 

Or, am I just over-thinking this?

 

GO BILLS! BEAT BRADY!

[GunnerBill]

 

15 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons. I'm warming up to him, but I'm not ready to consider him ANY kind of game changer at the moment.

 

 

The problem with this is he was the best player on the board. By a distance. 

Edited September 26, 2019 by GunnerBill

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

 

The problem with this is he was the best player on the board. By a distance. 

 

When was Hockensen taken again?

 

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

When was Hockensen taken again?

 

 

The pick before us. But he is better than Hock. We have a player not that much inferior to Hock we got in the 3rd round. 

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

When was Hockensen taken again?

 

The pick before

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

The pick before us. But he is better than Hock. We have a player not that much inferior to Hock we got in the 3rd round. 

 

Yea but Joe REALLY wanted DK Metcalf...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Yea but Joe REALLY wanted DK Metcalf...

 

Still do.

 

Could have dynamically changed our WR room. But oh well. We needed a DT I suppose.

 

[GunnerBill]

8 minutes ago, Wayne Cubed said:

 

Yea but Joe REALLY wanted DK Metcalf...

 

DK Metcalf in the top 10 would not have been smart. And him making a couple of nice plays in Seattle does not change that

Edited September 26, 2019 by GunnerBill

[GunnerBill]

15 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

 

How many QBs have actually been able to step up into a pocket against us this year?

 

This is the point. Part of the reason we kept Dalton from doing anything in the first half on Sunday was that he was totally unable to step into his throws because the interior push was there. 

[formerlyofCtown]

15 hours ago, DJB said:

He's getting  close to his first sack. Hopefully  this Sunday! 

Hopefully he gets so excited he crushes Brady.  Ill take the penalty.  Need to rattle Bradys cage a bit.

[billsfan1959]

13 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Still do.

 

Could have dynamically changed our WR room. But oh well. We needed a DT I suppose.

 

I was one who wanted DK Metcalf (not in the 1st) and was hoping he would slide to us in the 3rd. However, I have been completely surprised at how well John Brown is playing. He can run any route, has sure hands, and speed. He is actually playing far better than Metcalf:

 

Player	Team	DYAR	Rk	DVOA	Rk ▾	Passes	Yards	EYds	TD	Catch Rate
Brown	BUF	81	13	33.30%	12	23	246	263	1	78%
Metcalf	SEA	29	36	5.70%	34	19	217	173	1	47%

 

I'm not saying I wouldn't want Metcalf on my team, because I still would. I just wouldn't have taken him before the 3rd or 4th. The two primary issues with him are very apparent so far: limited route tree and questionable hands. However, he is still producing some nice plays for Seattle.

 

The WR crop in next years draft may be the best in a long time. I think that is where we continue to add to our offense at that position

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, billsfan1959 said:

 

The WR crop in next years draft may be the best in a long time. I think that is where we continue to add to our offense at that position

 

So i've heard.

 

If what you say is true and the Bills take another DE, DT, or OL in the first round, I'd have serious questions.

 

 

[billsfan1959]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

So i've heard.

 

If what you say is true and the Bills take another DE, DT, or OL in the first round, I'd have serious questions.

 

 

So would I

[1ManRaid]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

DK Metcalf in the top 10 would not have been smart. And him making a couple of nice plays in Seattle does not change that

31 other GMs would have laughed at us for burning a top 10 pick on the guy who ended up going with the last pick of the second round.  Oliver was the consensus BPA by a wide margin and 31 other GMs would have made the same pick especially with the retiring Kyle Williams.  I guess Joe is just smarter than all of them.

 

DK's catching 47% of the balls thrown at him, and his inflated yards per catch average came against three of the worst pass Ds in the league including a meaningless 54 yard desperation bomb at the end of a half against New Orleans' swiss cheese defense.  He's a walking ligament tear waiting to happen and already had a knee operation in the preseason to nobody's surprise.  Competent defenses will catch on to him being "the big fast guy" who could only catch less than half his targets against weak coverage.

 

I'll take the BPA DT already playing at a Pro Bowl level (despite "BUT TEH STATS") all day long when we're desperate to get pressure on Brady.  Adding another speed receiver (one with glaring weaknesses to boot) to a team that already had Brown and Foster wouldn't have the same impact.

 

*edit*

I can't stand when guys have ridiculous biases without trying to look at the whole picture especially if it's based on cherry picked stats.  Dude didn't even know that Hockenson was already off the board as well.  Took him longer to ask about it than it would have to Google it and not look silly.  

 

It's the morning and I'm cranky with a headache.

Edited September 26, 2019 by 1ManRaid

[Slippery Rubber Mats]

16 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 Stats of this type are filled with subjective nuance, but are presented as hard data.

 

 

 

By people. The stat itself is good information. People parade advanced stats as the end-all-be-all. It's part of the bigger picture. Don't blame the stat.

[nedboy7]

5 pages of defending the Oliver pick cause one person didn’t like it?  Sensitive crowd. 

[syhuang]

7 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Still do.

 

Could have dynamically changed our WR room. But oh well. We needed a DT I suppose.

 

 

It's weird you hold it against Oliver because Bills didn't draft Metcalf with the #9 pick, especially you now have the hindsight on how the draft actually went that Metcalk dropped all the way to end of round 2.

 

If you wanted to hold any of our picks for not drafting Metcalf, shouldn't it be Ford instead? Do you really prefer to still use #9 pick to draft Metcalf instead of arguing maybe using our 2nd round pick on him? Why do you still blame Oliver for not drafting Metcalf even with hindsight now ?

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, syhuang said:

 

It's weird you hold it against Oliver because Bills didn't draft Metcalf with the #9 pick, especially you now have the hindsight on how the draft actually went that Metcalk dropped all the way to end of round 2.

 

If you wanted to hold any of our picks for not drafting Metcalf, shouldn't it be Ford instead? Do you really prefer to still use #9 pick to draft Metcalf instead of arguing maybe using our 2nd round pick on him? Why do you still blame Oliver for not drafting Metcalf even with hindsight now ?

 

 

Trust me, I'm not giving Ford a pass, either.

 

And I'm not blaming OLIVER for being taken where he was.

 

Metcalf's gonna prove a lot of people wrong, I get the feeling. Will Oliver? Time will tell.

 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Trust me, I'm not giving Ford a pass, either.

 

And I'm not blaming OLIVER for being taken where he was.

 

Metcalf's gonna prove a lot of people wrong, I get the feeling. Will Oliver? Time will tell.

 

 

You would still, in hindsight, have taken Metcalf at #9?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, Royale with Cheese said:

 

You would still, in hindsight, have taken Metcalf at #9?

 

Considering the state of our WR corps, yes. We could use a big, fast WR on the roster. Ed Oliver MAY turn out to be great, or he MAY underwhelm as a pass rusher. That remains to be seen.

 

[syhuang]

5 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Trust me, I'm not giving Ford a pass, either.

 

And I'm not blaming OLIVER for being taken where he was.

 

Metcalf's gonna prove a lot of people wrong, I get the feeling. Will Oliver? Time will tell.

 

 

But you're blaming Oliver for Bills not taking Metcalf, which looks really weird to me especially with the hindsight. The following is what you said in this thread regarding Oliver's pick at #9 and Metcalf was then brought up.

 

Quote

My deal with this dude is that I don't think we should have drafted him with a need for offensive weapons.

 

 

 

 

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Considering the state of our WR corps, yes. We could use a big, fast WR on the roster. Ed Oliver MAY turn out to be great, or he MAY underwhelm as a pass rusher. That remains to be seen.

 

 

So even with the hindsight, you still want to pick Metcalf at #9 even though you now know Bills could have picked Metcalf in 2nd round?

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

Just now, syhuang said:

 

But you're blaming Oliver for Bills not taking Metcalf, which looks really weird to me especially with the hindsight. The following is what you said in this thread regarding Oliver's pick at #9 and Metcalf was then brought up.

 

 

Once again I'm not Blaming oliver. I'm blaming the FO.

 

 

[syhuang]

Just now, Joe in Winslow said:

 

Once again I'm not Blaming oliver. I'm blaming the FO.

 

 

 

You didn't answer my question, my question was " So even with the hindsight, you still want to pick Metcalf at #9 even though you now know Bills could have picked Metcalf in 2nd round? "