Did “The Drop” in Carolina Derail Zay Jones’s Confidence?

[Cripple Creek]

Yes, I think that one flub ruint him, absolutely.

[r00tabaga]

Good pass.

Bad route. 

Drop.

 

Confidence is a huge crutch for young receivers with no experience. He should be better now but just isn't....he just flashes here & there

[Say My Name]

7 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

IMO Zay’s issue isn’t the one drop.  I question if the issue is that he just doesn’t have the mental toughness to handle the rigors of the NFL, ups and downs, focus, etc.   

 

 

Agreed.. but as a consolation prize he gets a real slick nickname out of the deal! Zay makes Roberto Duran proud!

Zay "Hands of Stone" Jones.

 

SWSWSWN!!

Some Will, Some Won't, Someone's Waiting, NEXT! 

Duke Williams?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Say My Name

[dave mcbride]

8 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I mean, that was only a minimal drop, as far as drops go. Wasn’t a great ball.

 

but either way, Zay has been inconsistent and made a lot of mental mistakes.

It was a perfect throw. He stumbled on the route and ran a terrible route overall.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, Pbomb said:

But it was a bad pass 

No it wasn’t. Watch his stumblin’, bumblin’ route.

1 hour ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

This clip doesn’t show him screwing up the route! There are other, better views that track him, and it was discussed ad nauseum here for a couple of weeks after it happened.

[mjt328]

2 hours ago, Dr.Sack said:

To me he’s an average depth NFL receiver. He’s inability to separate coupled with the fact he doesn’t have top end speed means he’s not quick enough to play slot, and not fast enough to play on the edges.

 

His best attribute is his hands if schemed into the offense like he was in college, WR screens / slants / hooks. He will never be more than a 11YPC guy. He could be a guy who plays a decade and amasses 40 reception seasons at around 450 yards and 2-5 TDs per year. 

 

Because of all these facts I’ve listed, I would still like to see him run deeper decoy routes. We should throw him the occasional 50/50 jump ball given his 6’2” 36.5” vertical. 

 

Agree.  Physically speaking, Zay Jones is an average NFL guy with nothing that makes him stand out.  Average speed and quickness.  Average size.

 

When he was a top Buffalo's WR depth chart, he was young and still developing his route running skills.  He struggled with some drops (although this has been massively overblown by the fans).  The Bills also had one of the worst offenses in the league, and could barely generate 1-2 decent drives per game.

 

Now three years into his career, I think Jones has gotten pretty good as a route runner.  I believe he's gotten past his drop struggles.  And the Bills passing offense is finally showing signs of life.  But now Jones has been pushed down the depth chart, and has become our #3 option at best.

 

He's not a bad player.  But as a 2nd Round Pick, I think he's always going to be a disappointment from the production standpoint. 

 

 

 

[Teddy KGB]

He just isn’t that good.    

 

Beane screwed the pooch with Golladay/Kupp/Godwin/Juju all available with no tradeup ??

Edited September 18, 2019 by Teddy KGB

[billsfan1959]

15 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

This clip doesn’t show him screwing up the route! There are other, better views that track him, and it was discussed ad nauseum here for a couple of weeks after it happened.

Do you mean this one?

 

 

[dave mcbride]

5 minutes ago, billsfan1959 said:

Do you mean this one?

 

 

Yes! Thanks. I mean, what the heck is he doing there? That is the very definition of an uncrisp route. He ran a corner route and the qb saw that he had a clear shot at the ez, and the receiver did not adjust. Granted, it was his second game, so all is forgiven, but a starting receiver has to be better than that. He basically blew an easy TD.

[Don Otreply]

 Even Zays  biggest boosters know he is unlikely to make a catch under pressure, mostly because he has the smallest catch radius on the team.  We as fans all want Zay to kick azs,  because that would be awesome for the Bills and Zay, he just hasn’t stepped up. There is so much film evidence of his drops that he stars in the five minutes of drops video. This is why his staunchest supporters are one legged men in an azs kicking contest. 

 

Go Bills!!!

[whatdrought]

9 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

It was a great ball actually, it was not a clean route where Zay tripped on his own feet slightly on his cut that threw him just off where he he didn’t get a clean turnaround and wasn’t where he would have been if he hit the route clean.

 

That might be- I’d have to go look at it. Either way, it wasn’t a drop in the traditional sense, to the OP’s original meaning.

[Don Otreply]

45 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

No it wasn’t. Watch his stumblin’, bumblin’ route.

This clip doesn’t show him screwing up the route! There are other, better views that track him, and it was discussed ad nauseum here for a couple of weeks after it happened.

Maybe, but it does show he is bad at tracking the ball....

[whatdrought]

22 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

Yes! Thanks. I mean, what the heck is he doing there? That is the very definition of an uncrisp route. He ran a corner route and the qb saw that he had a clear shot at the ez, and the receiver did not adjust. Granted, it was his second game, so all is forgiven, but a starting receiver has to be better than that. He basically blew an easy TD.

 

Okay, after watching the video I think you’re wrong. Obviously we won’t know the reality of what was supposed to happen, but it looks like his route was supposed to take him to the outside- the throw was late and on the inside. He tried to adjust and couldn’t. 

[Don Otreply]

8 hours ago, wagon127 said:

The lack of productivity is due to Cole Beasley and John Brown being on the team now. 

True, but what does that say about Zay Jones??

[Mr. WEO]

No more than all of the other drops....

 

Maybe it's a cumulative effect:  DPCTE..

Edited September 18, 2019 by Mr. WEO

[SirAndrew]

55 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:

He just isn’t that good.    

 

Beane screwed the pooch with Golladay/Kupp/Godwin/Juju all available with no tradeup ??

Zay played at East Carolina, and I’m thinking Beane’s Panthers scouts might have been real familiar with him, likely causing Zay to get a bit overrated by Beane. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

8 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

True, but what does that say about Zay Jones??

 

It is clear this coaching staff is going to be about match ups. Cole had a ton of yards game two, but his targets dropped significantly. Brown is going to be our #1, but he was always meant to be our #1.  When the game calls for it, Zay will get a ton of targets. That is just how modern offenses work. The rest of the time he stays on the field because he runs good routes, he is a superb blocker, and he has a ton of experience with Josh Allen. 

16 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Okay, after watching the video I think you’re wrong. Obviously we won’t know the reality of what was supposed to happen, but it looks like his route was supposed to take him to the outside- the throw was late and on the inside. He tried to adjust and couldn’t. 

 

I hate that this argument is being brought up again. The answer requires knowledge that no one here has. Its all garbage speculation. 

[BuffaloHokie13]

15 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

 

Okay, after watching the video I think you’re wrong. Obviously we won’t know the reality of what was supposed to happen, but it looks like his route was supposed to take him to the outside- the throw was late and on the inside. He tried to adjust and couldn’t. 

Nah, we know what happened. Zay ran a poor route, broke the route too flat, and then made a poor adjustment to try to get a hand on the ball. It was on him, he owned it. He was crying about it and getting consoled by a lot of the team vets, Tyrod included. 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

 

 

 

 

What you don't see from that view is Zay stumbling and nearly falling on his face mid-route.

 

He lost track of his route depth and broke it off short.

 

The NFL isn't back yard football you need to get to the spot that you were thrown the ball in practice...........surprised that someone your age doesn't know that.

[billsfan1959]

29 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

What you don't see from that view is Zay stumbling and nearly falling on his face mid-route.

 

He lost track of his route depth and broke it off short.

 

The NFL isn't back yard football you need to get to the spot that you were thrown the ball in practice...........surprised that someone your age doesn't know that.

Not sure why you are lecturing me about what a receiver is supposed to do. I never said anything about Zay's route or the throw. As a matter of fact I gave a thumbs up support of your assessment and posted a clip of the play. If you look upthread, you will see I also posted a better clip just of the route - clearly showing Zay stumbling and getting turned around.

 

It helps to ensure you thoroughly understand a post or the poster's position before responding...surprised that someone with your experience on this board doesn't know that.

[White Linen]

10 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

IMO Zay’s issue isn’t the one drop.  I question if the issue is that he just doesn’t have the mental toughness to handle the rigors of the NFL, ups and downs, focus, etc.   

 

 

 

I think you nailed it with this post.  NFL football is an alarmingly rough sport.  It's not for everyone - even those that have had excellent college careers.  Look at the injuries some of these players are going through.  Siemian got blasted and folded up like a suitcase.  

 

It looks like the physicality of the game isn't worth it to Zay.  I think that's the genesis of his drops. 

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

50 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What you don't see from that view is Zay stumbling and nearly falling on his face mid-route.

 

He lost track of his route depth and broke it off short.

 

The NFL isn't back yard football you need to get to the spot that you were thrown the ball in practice...........surprised that someone your age doesn't know that.

 

This is just factually wrong. 

[dave mcbride]

59 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

What you don't see from that view is Zay stumbling and nearly falling on his face mid-route.

 

He lost track of his route depth and broke it off short.

 

The NFL isn't back yard football you need to get to the spot that you were thrown the ball in practice...........surprised that someone your age doesn't know that.

He addressed this very issue with video in a subsequent post.

[Lurker]

11 hours ago, Phil The Thrill said:

So how do you explain the lack of production from Zay?  Is it an issue of confidence?  Or is he just not very good at getting open and catching the ball?

 

The NFL is a world away from the American Athletic Conference and those "powerhouse" schools that Jones built his stats against:   http://theamerican.org/standings.aspx?standings=43

 

Simply put, his college skill set doesn't translate to the NFL, aside from blocking...

[Lurker]

10 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So much so that virtually every catch he tackles himself because he immediately stops and goes to the ground to make sure that he catches it, ensuring no YAC. It's pitiful to watch.

 

It's like he can only operate his hands or his feet, but not both at the same time!

 

Zay's the most imprecise route runner I've seen in a long time.   And he doesn't appear to be getting any better in year three, which is the most damning thing you can say about him... 

[T master]

I've never been a huge Zay fan he is a smooth talker & usually they are the ones you need to watch IMHO ! 

 

They talk a good story but never really do what they are built up to do & in the long run wind up being the opposite of what you think ! 

 

I believe he is a okay player but i don't think he will ever be the guy we thought he was going to be & put up the numbers he did in college, I think he can provide some thing to the team but he will never be a #1 WR more like a #3 or so ...

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

It is clear this coaching staff is going to be about match ups. Cole had a ton of yards game two, but his targets dropped significantly. Brown is going to be our #1, but he was always meant to be our #1.  When the game calls for it, Zay will get a ton of targets. That is just how modern offenses work. The rest of the time he stays on the field because he runs good routes, he is a superb blocker, and he has a ton of experience with Josh Allen. 

Like I was getting at, Jones does not give a match up advantage, he is a tepid route runner and is easier to cover for a defense, that is why he is a #3/#4 receiver, he offers nothing special. We should keep him until a better option is available.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Don Otreply

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

16 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

Like I was getting at, Jones does not give a match up advantage, he is a tepid route runner and is easier to cover for a defense, that is why he is a #3/#4 receiver, he offers nothing special. We should keep him until a better option is available.

 

I'm not sure why you think he is a tepid route runner, the guy is frequently open. But yeah, most of the rest is probably true. 

Edited September 18, 2019 by JoshAllenHasBigHands

[BillsVet]

Buffalo has traded up or into the 2nd round for 3 offensive players who are either struggling or incapable of playing their drafted position.  Amid the 2-0 start, that has to be stated because offense is where this team struggles most.  Jones, Dawkins, and now Ford are not strong contributors, but on draft day Buffalo traded up to take them.

 

There's a serious problem at OBD in assessing offensive talent.  They seem to do better on offense with their UFA signings. 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

I can’t believe you guys remember that play. There are so many Zay drops that they all blend together for me. 

[ColoradoBills]

12 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Soon the Bills will draft a 1st round WR and Zay Jones will not likely be given a contract extension....Bills still need a guy opposite Smokey Brown...that person is not Zay Jones.

 

11 hours ago, Kelly the Dog said:

So much so that virtually every catch he tackles himself because he immediately stops and goes to the ground to make sure that he catches it, ensuring no YAC. It's pitiful to watch.

 

I've been patient with Zay and how the rest of this season goes will seal his long term fate.

It is becoming apparent that there just something missing in how he processes the game.

I still have some hope he can get his mind right and put this all behind him but time is running out.

Kelly, your point is spot on, even when he is relatively open his movements nullify a lot of YAC.

[Alphadawg7]

Funny, I share the same criticisms and things during the off season and I’m relentlessly attacked, labeled as a hater and having an agenda because Zay is supposedly so good and gonna breakout in year 3.  Now majority of the board sees what have I seen and no one gets any grief from the same posters that were still attacking me even last week.  

 

Lol

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Buffalo has traded up or into the 2nd round for 3 offensive players who are either struggling or incapable of playing their drafted position.  Amid the 2-0 start, that has to be stated because offense is where this team struggles most.  Jones, Dawkins, and now Ford are not strong contributors, but on draft day Buffalo traded up to take them.

 

There's a serious problem at OBD in assessing offensive talent.  They seem to do better on offense with their UFA signings. 

 

 

Yeah the jury is definitely out on the second rounders.

[Dopey]

2 hours ago, billsfan1959 said:

Do you mean this one?

 

 

I want to thank Bills Fan1959 for providing this clip. It's a lot clearer in this clip what happened to Zay on this route. I would love for you guys/girls to review this clip. Specifically when Zay and the LB that drops into his zone get to the 19 yd line. As Zay begins to make his cut, his left foot makes contact with the right foot of the LB. They BOTH stumble from the contact. This, in turn, throws off the timing of the play and the crispness of the route. Zay is clearly not stumbling over his own feet as some have claimed. Alphadawg, please don't think I'm singling you out for any personal reasons, but I found this quote to be interesting posted by you earlier in this thread:" It was a great ball actually, it was not a clean route where Zay tripped on his own feet slightly on his cut that threw him just off where he he didn’t get a clean turnaround and wasn’t where he would have been if he hit the route clean.". He wasn't where he was supposed to be, that is correct, but IMO that contact as he was just beginning his cut affected the timing and precision of that particular cut. Clearly, he didn't trip on his own feet. I say clearly for two reasons: 1) the video shows it and 2) unless you think the LB tripped over his feet too, he also clearly stumbles as a result of that contact. Again, Alpha, this was not meant to pick on you or meant to be personal. Just pointing out, what to me is an oversight. He probably runs a "cleaner" route, if not for their feet getting tangled enough for both to stumble.

 

 

[Phil The Thrill]

11 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's had a number of good games.......even in his rookie year he played a tremendous role in that key win at KC.............he just always reverts to inconsistency catching the football.

 

I don’t know if you really can say that.  Take a look at his game logs.  He has yet to eclipse the 100 yard mark in two years are largely a starting WR.  By NFL WR standards his numbers are very pedestrian - certainly not anywhere near where he should be as a 2nd round pick

[mrags]

Without reading this entire thread, I can’t imagine why it would. Considering Tyrod three a terrible pass over the wrong shoulder. 

[TheBrownBear]

I have no idea if Zay is ever going to be any good, but it helps to keep in mind that most receivers, even good ones, usually take two to three years to hit their stride in the NFL. Even Eric Moulds sucked for his first two seasons as a bill. It's the rare receiver who comes in to the league and immediately lights it up.

[Phil The Thrill]

4 hours ago, mjt328 said:

 

Agree.  Physically speaking, Zay Jones is an average NFL guy with nothing that makes him stand out.  Average speed and quickness.  Average size.

 

When he was a top Buffalo's WR depth chart, he was young and still developing his route running skills.  He struggled with some drops (although this has been massively overblown by the fans).  The Bills also had one of the worst offenses in the league, and could barely generate 1-2 decent drives per game.

 

Now three years into his career, I think Jones has gotten pretty good as a route runner.  I believe he's gotten past his drop struggles.  And the Bills passing offense is finally showing signs of life.  But now Jones has been pushed down the depth chart, and has become our #3 option at best.

 

He's not a bad player.  But as a 2nd Round Pick, I think he's always going to be a disappointment from the production standpoint. 

 

 

 

 

I disagree that fans made more out of his drops his rookie year.  I am pretty sure that if Zay didn’t have the highest drop rate, he was among the leaders in the NFL for WR’s

[WideNine]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Yeah the jury is definitely out on the second rounders.

 

It is interesting how well they nail those later round picks, yet struggle reeling in offensive talent in the early rounds. Ford to me was not going to contribute at RT this year after watching film of him; thought he would best serve at guard for this season. Not the worse thing in the world if he is outplayed and has to ride the pine a bit.

 

I still think he would do a solid job at guard, but Feliciano is currently playing at a high level so he should be backing up both RG and RT spots as he grows into an NFL calibre o-lineman. Just needs to work on the foot speed if he is manning the edge at RT.

Sends the wrong message if your org feels compelled to play their draft picks if a UFA and/or PS player is out-performing them and it feels like politics when they have Ford as 1st on the RT depth chart when Ty Nsekhe has the edge right now.

Edited September 18, 2019 by WideNine

[Dopey]

29 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

I can’t believe you guys remember that play. There are so many Zay drops that they all blend together for me. 

According to FOXSports, and other sites, he had 3 drops last year. Michael Thomas had 3, Calvin Ridley had 10, Travis Kelcey had 7, Eldelman 8, Julio Jones had 9. Even Gronk had 3.

Kinda overblown IMO.  

Edited September 18, 2019 by Dopey