NFL Execs on what each team should worry about (Athletic: paywall)

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Cart and horse issue in Buffalo.  It all depends upon Allen.  If he can win and produce then the guys around him will look better.  The D would have bigger names if they were a part of a winning playoff team.

 

 

"It all depends on Allen"  playing at what level?    Tom Brady?

 

There is a reason that teams that have had success with young QB's in recent years have gone out and streamlined their cart to make it very easy for said young QB to pull.........that whole "sink or swim" old school approach to developing a QB is no longer the working model of how it's done in the NFL.

 

The Bills have given Allen some *better* targets but it's still one of the least imposing groups of skill players in the entire NFL.

 

That context matters.

[Max Fischer]

3 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Quote:

 

Buffalo Bills

The worry: Buffalo might not have the explosive playmakers to take the next step.

“People talk about Josh Allen’s accuracy and that will be the top concern if he winds up being Blake Bortles as a passer on third down. I wonder if they have the horses overall. You root for them because they do it the right way, but where is the big-play flair, the explosive, big-play home-run guy both offensively and defensively? They have a lot of lunch-pail-type guys who work hard, are smart, but might not get you over the hump to, say, 10-plus wins.”

 

https://theathletic.com/1180817/2019/09/03/nfl-execs-on-what-all-32-teams-should-worry-about-entering-the-season/

 

This falls in line with the ‘not having big names’ argument. I don’t buy it. 

 

The biggest concern to me this year is Josh’s continued improvement. 

 

Sure, the Bills would be better with a few upgrades but one big name would not likely to be more than a half-game improvement.  

 

[JaBu]

 Of course no one thinks this offense is explosive at this point.  9 of the 11 are new to the team and have never played a regular season game together yet. Was Kelley considered elite after his 1st year in the NFL? Did anyone say Eric Moulds was explosive his first year or two in the league? Foster sure has that same potential if last years 2nd half is any indication.

[C.Biscuit97]

7 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

"It all depends on Allen"  playing at what level?    Tom Brady?

 

There is a reason that teams that have had success with young QB's in recent years have gone out and streamlined their cart to make it very easy for said young QB to pull.........that whole "sink or swim" old school approach to developing a QB is no longer the working model of how it's done in the NFL.

 

The Bills have given Allen some *better* targets but it's still one of the least imposing groups of skill players in the entire NFL.

 

That context matters.

My worry is we gave Allen a Tom Brady receiving core.  I think he would have benefited from having a big skilled TE (maybe we have one but they don’t seem like elite types) and a big, number 1 receiver on the outside.  Really like Beasley and Brown as compliments but I think we are trying to make top targets and they aren’t that. Guess we’ll see soon enough. 

[Capco]

3 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:

If our D is as good as we think it is, we'll be in good shape if our O can just average something like 24 points/game.

 

That would make us an above-average scoring offense.  Over the last 10 years the average points/game from all sources (not just offense) is somewhere between 22 and 23.  Last season the average was 23.3 points per team per game.  

 

If the offense can average 24 points/game I'll be extremely impressed.  According to last year's stats that'd be good for the 11th ranked scoring offense.  The Bills ranked 30th in that category last year.  

Edited September 3, 2019 by Capco

[BuffaloBill]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

"It all depends on Allen"  playing at what level?    Tom Brady?

 

There is a reason that teams that have had success with young QB's in recent years have gone out and streamlined their cart to make it very easy for said young QB to pull.........that whole "sink or swim" old school approach to developing a QB is no longer the working model of how it's done in the NFL.

 

The Bills have given Allen some *better* targets but it's still one of the least imposing groups of skill players in the entire NFL.

 

That context matters.

 

I neither said nor implied that Allen has to play at a Brady level.  Let’s start with at least a middle of the NFL passing game.  The Bills have been among the teams in tha cellar for a long time.  At the end of the day you could take the top three receivers from the league and put them on the team.  It matters little if the scheme is wrong and or the QB can’t get the ball in their hands through the air.

 

Are the Bills skills players not imposing because the Bills have an anemic pass offense?  Which comes first?

[eball]

42 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Whaley’s team were loaded minus QB, and even as flawed he was, Tyrod did “make” a pro bowl.  The Whaley hate is so misplaced (not saying you’re hating on him but those were some talented teams).

 

I don't hate on Whaley, I just question (in retrospect) his method of "team building."  The trade to acquire Sammy was a poor decision, as was paying Dareus.  And as much as I loved Shady while he was here, I can certainly understand those who argue spending that kind of money on a RB in this day and age was foolhardy.

 

I wouldn't quite call his teams "loaded" but the roster in 2015 was playoff-worthy.

[Chandler#81]

New Rule; Next guy who starts an (Athletic: paywall) thread has to buy everyone a subscription. All these threads allow for is the rest of us to discuss the OPs take on the article content.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

I neither said nor implied that Allen has to play at a Brady level.  Let’s start with at least a middle of the NFL passing game.  The Bills have been among the teams in tha cellar for a long time.  At the end of the day you could take the top three receivers from the league and put them on the team.  It matters little if the scheme is wrong and or the QB can’t get the ball in their hands through the air.

 

Are the Bills skills players not imposing because the Bills have an anemic pass offense?  Which comes first?

 

 

So like 28th best WR/TE corps but Allen should elevate them to middle of the league?

 

I believe in Allen's ability to develop long term but this is a guy who completed 52% of his passes last year..........they are asking for a huge personal leap from him,  IMO.

 

And to answer your last question it's definitely the players who aren't imposing.

 

In 12 combined NFL seasons Beasley and Brown have totaled just 3 seasons over 700 yards............we love them because they are ours and right now we envision getting the "best" versions of them but these are seasoned NFL vets who really haven't done much............and they are the point men for your receiving corps.

 

Robert Foster is the wildcard..........if he plays to his potential he is special...........but it appears that he is either a head case or going to be a constant injury concern.........the Bills aren't really saying.    Between 4 years at Bama and one year in the NFL he's played well for 2 months.   He's like our version of Martavis Bryant.......except instead of a drug problem he may have something else that weighs him down just when it looks like he's ready to turn into a stud.  

 

 

[Green Lightning]

2 hours ago, GG said:

Sounds like the annual description of the Pats* for the last 20 years (except the QB)

This. And not for nothing, how many Josh to Smoke bombs will it take for them to be play Akers?

[yungmack]

Elite receivers are not necessary for elite team status. List the 5 acknowledged best WRs in the league and look at where their teams finish. The same can be said for so-called elite RBs. The key to success is an elite QB whose line is above average, with good coaching. The rest is gravy.

[BuffaloBill]

57 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

So like 28th best WR/TE corps but Allen should elevate them to middle of the league?

 

I believe in Allen's ability to develop long term but this is a guy who completed 52% of his passes last year..........they are asking for a huge personal leap from him,  IMO.

 

And to answer your last question it's definitely the players who aren't imposing.

 

In 12 combined NFL seasons Beasley and Brown have totaled just 3 seasons over 700 yards............we love them because they are ours and right now we envision getting the "best" versions of them but these are seasoned NFL vets who really haven't done much............and they are the point men for your receiving corps.

 

Robert Foster is the wildcard..........if he plays to his potential he is special...........but it appears that he is either a head case or going to be a constant injury concern.........the Bills aren't really saying.    Between 4 years at Bama and one year in the NFL he's played well for 2 months.   He's like our version of Martavis Bryant.......except instead of a drug problem he may have something else that weighs him down just when it looks like he's ready to turn into a stud.  

 

 

 

 

Allen was drafted to be an elite QB not a middle of the pack, game manager.  A mid level finish in the league should be a minimum expectation for him this year.  In the en, all that matters is that the Bills win games.  The strength of the team is defense.

 

As for WR’s, again, nobody is going to be elite unless they have a QB who can get them the ball.  Do you think Ju Ju would have taken the leap forward in Buffalo?  It is mostly improbable.  

[TroutDog]

1 hour ago, Chandler#81 said:

New Rule; Next guy who starts an (Athletic: paywall) thread has to buy everyone a subscription. All these threads allow for is the rest of us to discuss the OPs take on the article content.

I included everything about the Bills in the original post. Just saying. ? 

[NoSaint]

5 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Quote:

 

Buffalo Bills

The worry: Buffalo might not have the explosive playmakers to take the next step.

“People talk about Josh Allen’s accuracy and that will be the top concern if he winds up being Blake Bortles as a passer on third down. I wonder if they have the horses overall. You root for them because they do it the right way, but where is the big-play flair, the explosive, big-play home-run guy both offensively and defensively? They have a lot of lunch-pail-type guys who work hard, are smart, but might not get you over the hump to, say, 10-plus wins.”

 

https://theathletic.com/1180817/2019/09/03/nfl-execs-on-what-all-32-teams-should-worry-about-entering-the-season/

 

This falls in line with the ‘not having big names’ argument. I don’t buy it. 

 

The biggest concern to me this year is Josh’s continued improvement. 

 

Its a star driven league- we will see if Allen is a star. 

[Mr. WEO]

6 hours ago, DJB said:

Im cool with it. Continue to doubt the Bills and hopefully we turn dome heads and earn some damn respect 

 

 

Screw the dome heads----football was made to be played in the elements!!

[TroutDog]

17 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

 

Its a star driven league- we will see if Allen is a star. 

I believe that’s in relation to viewers and fantasy, not necessarily success. 

 

With Dallas as an example, please paying a RB, QB and WR exorbitant salaries restricts a teams ability to build around them. 

 

Personally, I like the way Beane is building this team. It may not be fast enough for most fans but the end result should be. 

[BADOLBILZ]

48 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said:

 

 

As for WR’s, again, nobody is going to be elite unless they have a QB who can get them the ball.  Do you think Ju Ju would have taken the leap forward in Buffalo?  It is mostly improbable.  

 

 

You're just wrong about that.

 

DeAndre Hopkins ring a bell?  Who was his QB before Watson arrived?   Josh Gordon had breakout season and one of the best seasons ever by a WR with a bunch of scrub QB's.

 

Stud WR's can excel even with bad quarterbacking.

 

Juju had 1400+ yards last year and  nearly 1,000 starting less than half the games in his rookie year.   He has had 97 yard TD's in both of his two seasons...........he's by no means the product of some surgical passer.........he's REALLY good and yes he would have broken out here as well.  

 

But again.......if you don't think a stud WR can excel without good QB'ing you just aren't aware of the facts.

[NoSaint]

20 minutes ago, TroutDog said:

I believe that’s in relation to viewers and fantasy, not necessarily success. 

 

With Dallas as an example, please paying a RB, QB and WR exorbitant salaries restricts a teams ability to build around them. 

 

Personally, I like the way Beane is building this team. It may not be fast enough for most fans but the end result should be. 

 

Meh. You probably won’t like the 2021 bills in that case as tre, josh and tremaine likely will be on even bigger deals. 

 

If if they are game changing stars, it’ll be great. If it’s dak, maybe less so. 

[Mat68]

I understand they had Marshawn Lynch.  Who was Seatles playmaker the year they won?  The Patriots never have a "playmaker" but take what the defense/ matchups dictate. 

 

I'm curious to see how defenses react to Foster, Beasley, Brown.  That puts a lot of stress on the corners and safties.  They may not have a number 1 playmaker but either Brown or Foster can run by anybody.  That leaves a lot of room for Beasley, TE d'jour, Zay or Robert's, and a Rb.  

 

McDermott and Daboll are following the NE model.  Matchups more than one guy all the time.  On paper the offense doesnt scare anybody.  With the Oline they have assembled, paired with the speed and quickness added outside, their offense on the field is going to create problems.  

[Wayne Arnold]

5 hours ago, GG said:

Sounds like the annual description of the Pats* for the last 20 years (except the QB)

 

I was thinking the same thing, although even Brady isn't an "explosive playmaker". He's just a guy who always makes the right read and puts the ball perfectly in his teammates hands. 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

Going after Antonio Brown was an acknowledgement they didn't have the play-makers at the skill positions.  This attempt signaled they'd go outside the process to give Allen a real vertical weapon. 

 

Gore and Singletary aren't burner types at RB.  The TE position is a huge question mark with one guy not having practiced since May and another a 3rd round rookie. 

 

The WR who'll get down field is Brown and after him no one is proven at that role.  Foster is a nice story, but not proven by a long shot. 

 

Speed is going to be an issue for this offense. 

 

False.

 

[stinky finger]

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

THis is actually my thinking. Outside of perhaps Morse, who on offense is a top-15-at-his-position player? I can't think of anyone.

 

I love stats too.

[dave mcbride]

1 hour ago, inaugural balls said:

 

I love stats too.

I actually didn’t discuss stats.

[DCofNC]

8 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

I guess our D players need to say more stupid sh*t so they get media coverage and can be "big" names like Ramsey

Be real, Ramsey is an ass, but hes also elite and nobody on the Bills is in that territory, yet at least.  No Tre is not as good as Ramsey so don't bother.

2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said:

 

False.

 

I would love to know what you find false, looks SPOT ON, to anyone without bias.

[ganesh]

9 hours ago, BuffaloBill said:

Cart and horse issue in Buffalo.  It all depends upon Allen.  If he can win and produce then the guys around him will look better.  The D would have bigger names if they were a part of a winning playoff team.

Yes.  if the Offense is on the field longer, that keeps the defense fresh and they can go after the QB and force him to make mistakes.  Stars will emerge.  Will the Running game help Allen and not force this team into a one dimensional team

[BillsVet]

24 minutes ago, DCofNC said:

I would love to know what you find false, looks SPOT ON, to anyone without bias.

 

Don't mind him.  He's usually good for just an emoticon, so this marks as much as a response as you'll get.  

[DJB]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

Screw the dome heads----football was made to be played in the elements!!

 

Hey i have a slight internet lisp.  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

They're fast and can make big plays, but they're definitely not elite - the sort of player like AJ Green, OBJ, or Julio Jones who are both fast and regularly win contested catches.  The Bills haven't had player like that since Eric Moulds in his prime from 1998-2002. Watkins had that potential (and, frankly, still does), and while he flashed it, he was hurt too much and the organization didn't keep him around.

 

That's fair, but what teams have those players?  Obviously, Cincy has one, Atlanta has one, now Cleveland has one, Dallas,

 

I guess my point is, who are the most successful teams, and do all of THEM have such guys?

 

[C.Biscuit97]

5 hours ago, yungmack said:

Elite receivers are not necessary for elite team status. List the 5 acknowledged best WRs in the league and look at where their teams finish. The same can be said for so-called elite RBs. The key to success is an elite QB whose line is above average, with good coaching. The rest is gravy.

Basically, it’s NE with the best qb that doesn’t fit this model. Bree’s has Thomas. Mahomes has good pieces.  Rams have a good crew.  Ryan has Julio.  

 

Now you don’t necessarily need Julio but you need better than what we have.  We have 2s at best (and that may be a stretch) and mainly 3s and 4s. 

[uticaclub]

10 hours ago, GG said:

Sounds like the annual description of the Pats* for the last 20 years (except the QB)

Troy Brown, Richard Seymore, Rodney Harrison, Corey Dillion, Gronk, Randy Moss, off the top of my head. i could go on, they’ve had some “superstars”

 

We can compete but unless everyone takes massive steps in the right direction, we won’t be an elite team

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

7 hours ago, DCofNC said:

Be real, Ramsey is an ass, but hes also elite and nobody on the Bills is in that territory, yet at least.  No Tre is not as good as Ramsey so don't bother.

I would love to know what you find false, looks SPOT ON, to anyone without bias.

 

All of it.

[stosh64]

17 hours ago, TroutDog said:

Quote:

 

Buffalo Bills

The worry: Buffalo might not have the explosive playmakers to take the next step.

 

Josh Allen IS the "explosive playmaker".

The Air Allen show is about to lift off,  enjoy the flight Buffalo!

#GoBills

[DCofNC]

4 hours ago, stosh64 said:

Josh Allen IS the "explosive playmaker".

The Air Allen show is about to lift off,  enjoy the flight Buffalo!

#GoBills

Allen certainly is the Playmaker, but I think the point is, even Rodgers, who is far more polished, but a similar physical ability type, needs talent around him to go anywhere substantial.  The Bills don't have anybody else on this roster who has proven to be an explosive playmaker.  Brown and Foster have ability, but Brown has only one 1000 yard season and Foster has all of about a 5 game resume.  Not a lot to go on.  The backfield is a rookie who was deemed "too slow", which has yet to be determined, a 36 year old and an average back with good hands, nothing exciting there.  TEs are all unproven at best.  It's easy to see where the questions come from, because there are no answers yet.

 

On the D, nobody has solidified a spot as an elite player either.  Theres a bunch of guys who are all pretty damn good, but I would actually argue Hyde is the biggest X factor and he's not recognized as one of the elites either.

 

Tre is a half step slow, Hughes is old, Oliver has done nothing in an actual NFL game, the LBs as a whole haven't proved anything other than potential yet.  

 

All that said, good TEAMS are better than the sum of their parts, ask the Pats, but it usually requires a couple of real standouts at key positions for that to work.  Basically Allen and a couple guys catching passes have to become bigtime playmakers every game to win.

[dave mcbride]

10 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

That's fair, but what teams have those players?  Obviously, Cincy has one, Atlanta has one, now Cleveland has one, Dallas,

 

I guess my point is, who are the most successful teams, and do all of THEM have such guys?

 

Well, there are only a handful of Julio Jones-type players in terms of physique/speed, but there are a LOT of elite receivers who are elite because they're absolutely fantastic at certain important things (e.g., Adam Thielen). The Bills simply don't have one of those guys. Off the top of my head:

 

OBJ

Juju Smith-Schuster

AJ Green

DeAndre Hopkins (arguably the best receiver in the NFL)

Keenan Allen

Antonio Brown

Tyreek Hill

Amari Cooper (Dallas version)

Alshon Jeffrey

Brandin Cooks

Michael Thomas

Julio Jones

Mike Evans

Adam Thielen

Josh Gordon (when not suspended)

 

Guys who are either just below that level yet better than anyone on the Bills, or who are on the cusp because of massive talent:  

 

Corey Davis (incredible talent)

Sammy Watkins (massive talent; still only 25)

Mike Williams (talent; 10 TDs last season and over 15 ypc)
Robert Woods (great route running, hands, production)

Tyler Lockett (great route running, amazing hands, ever-increasing production)

Davante Adams (incredibly hard to cover because of quickness; production)

Calvin Ridley (route running; production)

 

And then there is the TE position, which is a big part of any passing game. There are a lot of very good ones, but the Bills TE situation remains lousy. Maybe their third rounder, Knox, turns out to be OK. I certainly hope so, but I'm not holding my breath given the Bills' long history of weakness at that position.

[BITE ME]

The Bills have the talent to win the Super Bowl.  It is just a matter of everyone playing up to their peak talent.  There is no argument the Defense has the talent to be the best in the NFL.  The offense has the players to put up enough points to beat anyone.  This is a team that will methodically move the ball down the field and put up points.  This is a team that will create turnovers too.  Most importantly, this is a team that will get much better as the year goes on.  Nobody is going to want to play them in the second half of the year. Especially teams like the Browns, Cowboys, Steelers, and Patriots, who all will be looking to win their divisions.  

 

I like this team to make the playoffs, get hot, and become very difficult to beat in January, maybe even February.

[stosh64]

1 hour ago, DCofNC said:

 

I mostly agree with what you posted, we have a lot of unknowns and a lot of hopefuls.

I admit my post was a major 'homer' post, I do however believe Allen will be a superstar.  Time will tell.

 

Don't ruin my homer optimism