Quinton Spain

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

Sounds like on OBL - they tried flipping Long and Spain at guard today.

 

Dawkins, Long, Feliciano, Spain, Ford

 

Interesting - with Tye out - will be interesting to see what happens as people get healthy.

 

Think that is more to do with trying to solidify the right side. There was more pressure coming from over there. 

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

I personally would like to see Feliciano move to LG when Morse is healthy. He looks pretty tough.  Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford/Nsehke

 

I for one could live with that group, I as well am certain that the coaching staff is very aware of their new O lines performance on every play, and will make adjustments as needed.

 

Go Bills!!!

[MJS]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Think that is more to do with trying to solidify the right side. There was more pressure coming from over there. 

I like Feliciano a lot. When Morse comes back (yes when, not if) I hope Feliciano is the starter at RG. Yes, Nsekhe looks decent and having Feliciano at RG means pushing Ford to RT and Nsekhe out of the starting lineup, but I've been more impressed with Feliciano.

So it would be: Dawkins - Spain - Morse - Feliciano - Ford

Edited August 19, 2019 by MJS

[Rochesterfan]

9 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Think that is more to do with trying to solidify the right side. There was more pressure coming from over there. 

 

Could very well be - just interesting that this is really the first time since OTA’s Spain has been moved from #1 Left Guard.

 

It would not shock me if they are trying to help Ford out - just a change that was noted.

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Just Joshin' said:

This seems like the correct and reasonable position.  Maybe change your name to LogicGunnerBill.

I have the game TIVO's I will look at it again tonight to watch Spain

 

PS.....in practice he is playing on the RG postion

[GunnerBill]

59 minutes ago, MJS said:

His hands are inside Short's frame. Looks like excellent blocking to me. Refs will only call that if the defender tries to disengage but can't. Towards the end of the play Spain has his arm on Short's side, but there's no indication of holding. You can push on the outside of a defender's frame as long as you aren't holding. If Short would have attempted to turn back to the right and Spain kept his arm on the outside and hooked him, that could have been called, but that didn't happen.

All in all that looks like excellent blocking on that particular play.

 

Yep and to me. That was the play I referenced to Beasley over the middle. 3rd play of the 2nd drive. That is an outstanding job against an elite player. 

 

It wasn't Spain's best game. Even I as a big advocate of his said that in my good night / bad night thread. But having now watched back all 17 offensive plays for which he was out there he only had 3 negative ones despite being matched against an elite player for the most part. Now 3 in 17 is still too many and he would say himself I am sure that he can play better. But by all reports he had a very good camp, he played very well against the Colts he had a mixed night against Carolina. Anyone panicking at this point needs to majorly chill out. 

Edited August 19, 2019 by GunnerBill

[section122]

16 minutes ago, Logic said:

Getting beaten one-on-one by Kawaan Short is gonna happen. It just is. Short is a top 10 DT in the NFL. I don't know what people think happens in the trenches, but you win some reps and you lose some reps. No one -- not even perennial All-Pro guards -- ever wins every single rep against defensive linemen. 

Spain is the least of my concerns when it comes to the Bills o-line.

 

I agree that o-lineman aren't perfect especially going against someone as talented as Short.  I was just surmising what op was thinking.  Regardless of it happening to everyone that was not a good look for Spain.  He was tossed like a small child lol!  It wasn't every play but I doubt Spain was happy with his performance in that game.

 

12 minutes ago, MJS said:

His hands are inside Short's frame. Looks like excellent blocking to me. Refs will only call that if the defender tries to disengage but can't. Towards the end of the play Spain has his arm on Short's side, but there's no indication of holding. You can push on the outside of a defender's frame as long as you aren't holding. If Short would have attempted to turn back to the right and Spain kept his arm on the outside and hooked him, that could have been called, but that didn't happen.

All in all that looks like excellent blocking on that particular play.

 

The 2 bolded are what I thought I saw.  When he tried to shove him Spain had his right arm hooked around and went for the ride.  Not a big deal just thought it was a weird play to highlight since it looked like holding to me.  He got the job done though and didn't get flagged so no matter what my eyes thought they saw it was a good block

[Mister Defense]

 

3 hours ago, BillsRdue said:

I personally would like to see Feliciano move to LG when Morse is healthy. He looks pretty tough.  Dawkins/Feliciano/Morse/Ford/Nsehke

 

 

I think may end up being the line.  Seems like the 5 best lineman and lineup.  I hope this is the case.

 

There will likely  be some tinkering, changing during the year.

 

 

[colin]

i suspect the starting 5 will be dawkins, spain, morse, ford, ty.  some flex around ty being healthy, and long/feliciano maybe stepping in for ford/spain, but i think for opening day it is more likely that ford sees the bench than spain, as they would groom ford up for tackle and one of the other two is likely a better guard at this point.

 

also, if a tackle goes down, ford will be filling in one of those spots, while lg to rg we have 4 or 5 guys we can roll with.

 

nice posts in this thread gunner.

[WotAGuy]

I thought they cut Vlad Ducasse but apparently they just gave him a new number. 

[C.Biscuit97]

3 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

Maybe the Redskins will just give us Trent for an old sandwich.

Beef on weck with 5 wings

 

i really don’t pay attention to the oline unless it’s truly that bad.  They looked solid as a whole.  Was he really that bad?  He definitely is beefy. 

[BurpleBull]

4 hours ago, r henderson said:

I just finished watching the Bills Carolina game and saw something very alarming. This is a one game observation, but Spain was getting beat on every single snap. The only way they were able to by time is with the play action. Maybe he's hurt, but his play was under whelming on that night. Constant pressure on every pla while showing very slow foot work. Comments please.  

 

I think a lot of folks in here just knew that Spain came from the Titans---starting so many games for an organization that's had more recent on-field success than the Bills---and likely convinced themselves that Spain was really solid because he was so trusted in protecting their "franchise QB".

 

I'm surprised at how Spain seems to be regarded a shoo-in at LG; I thought from the jump that he was being brought in to compete for a spot (RG specifically), but would ultimately serve as O-line depth if retained.

 

I'm really surprised that Spencer Long doesn't even seem to be in the mix for the LG position, because he's who I thought would solidify the left side of the line playing alongside Dawkins.

[vincec]

A couple of weeks ago I was reading how he was a "stud" in camp. Now he is "getting beat on every play." The winds of change are fickle.

[GunnerBill]

13 minutes ago, BurpleBull said:

 

I think a lot of folks in here just knew that Spain came from the Titans---starting so many games for an organization that's had more recent on-field success than the Bills---and likely convinced themselves that Spain was really solid because he was so trusted in protecting their "franchise QB".

 

I'm surprised at how Spain seems to be regarded a shoo-in at LG; I thought from the jump that he was being brought in to compete for a spot (RG specifically), but would ultimately serve as O-line depth if retained.

 

I'm really surprised that Spencer Long doesn't even seem to be in the mix for the LG position, because he's who I thought would solidify the left side of the line playing alongside Dawkins.

 

Nope. I watched a lot of Spain in Tennessee and think he is really good. 

7 minutes ago, vincec said:

A couple of weeks ago I was reading how he was a "stud" in camp. Now he is "getting beat on every play." The winds of change are fickle.

 

He got beat twice and had one hold. Wasn't his best game but beat on every play is a major exaggeration 

[Bangarang]

24 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Beef on weck with 5 wings

 

i really don’t pay attention to the oline unless it’s truly that bad.  They looked solid as a whole.  Was he really that bad?  He definitely is beefy. 

 

I only quickly watched the condensed version of the game and tbh I was only partially paying attention. It’s preseason so as long as there are no major injuries I don’t care too much.

[Formerly Allan in MD]

4 hours ago, jav said:

Shaq Lawson for Trent Williams. Redskins may get desperate. Then slide Dawkins to LG and Spain to bench to battle Teller for backup duties.

The Redskins D line is loaded.  What they need is offensive linemen.  So it ain't gonna happen.  Dan Snyder is not real swift but even he wouldn't do that.

[John from Riverside]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

On Spain:

 

I have just watched the first drive back and the sack by Short is his only negative play. There was a play where Dawkins got completely blown up and Shady was hit behind the line and a then a play where Shady concerts a third and short where Spain pulls and then I think hits the wrong guy but still creates enough of a hole for Shady to get the first down. On this drive he works against Kawann Short for the most part and Kyle Love on a couple of plays. Spain is particularly effective at re-directing Short's rush angles keeping him wide and on the wide receiver screen to Beasley does a really nice job of getting up quickly to the second level to make the play. On the play he gets beat he overbalances slightly and against Short that is bad news and he is able to swat aside and make the play. 

 

Onto the second drive now but I have already ascertained the OP was talking out of a certain part of his anatomy. 

So just for reference here.....

 

Did ppl think that Cog and Eric Wood didnt have negative plays?   Of COURSE they did.

 

There are other very good players in the league these guys are going against......they are going to lose a battle here and there.

[Nuncha]

Almost makes you wish Vlad was back at LG...ALMOST!

[BurpleBull]

22 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Nope. I watched a lot of Spain in Tennessee and think he is really good. 

 

He got beat twice and had one hold. Wasn't his best game but beat on every play is a major exaggeration 

 

Spain just doesn't strike me as very imposing for his size; I'd like to see Long get his shot at LG. 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, BurpleBull said:

 

Spain just doesn't strike me as very imposing for his size; I'd like to see Long get his shot at LG. 

 

Spain is better than Long. Seen a lot of both. 

[Paul Costa]

6 hours ago, r henderson said:

I just finished watching the Bills Carolina game and saw something very alarming. This is a one game observation, but Spain was getting beat on every single snap. The only way they were able to by time is with the play action. Maybe he's hurt, but his play was under whelming on that night. Constant pressure on every pla while showing very slow foot work. Comments please.  

This is Fake News. I watched every play too,  watching multiple times. He did not get beat every play or anything close to that. His holding call was on a run to the right away from the ball carrier and is something you see every play. Let me guess you want Wyatt Teller? This is very Trump like to spin a false narrative to people who didn’t see the game. Kinda sad ? 

[Cotton Fitzsimmons]

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Hyperbole is the death of the message board. 

 

During the Flutie/RJ days some joker made some arguments of grandeur on YE OLE... so naturally YE OLE had to call him out on it. This fellow responds with “Ever hear of hyperbole man?”

 

So YE OLE tells this whipper snapper “No... is that Batman’s cousin?” And that’s the rest of the story right there, gents!

Edited August 19, 2019 by Cotton Fitzsimmons

[GunnerBill]

I don't know the OP but if he thought this was the kind of message board where you could turn up, post something that is proveably false with a bit of simple rewatching of the game, and not get called on it then he picked the wrong place. 

 

It is one of the best things about this place. The majority of the posters know their stuff and don't just spout nonsense. 

[26TrapDraw]

5 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Hyperbole is the death of the message board. 

How dare you want to deal with facts. 

[GG]

30 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

This is Fake News. I watched every play too,  watching multiple times. He did not get beat every play or anything close to that. His holding call was on a run to the right away from the ball carrier and is something you see every play. Let me guess you want Wyatt Teller? This is very Trump like to spin a false narrative to people who didn’t see the game. Kinda sad ? 

 

The first part of your post is correct.  Until you got to Teller.  He had a very good game, and held up better against the same guys than Spain.

[shoretalk]

5 hours ago, Logic said:

 

Oops … guess he wasn't beaten on very play.  In fact, the second video shows some quality pass blocking against a very good DT.  If the coaches (And, they are the ones who actually know everything that is going on with the team.) had any doubts about his ability to play LG don't you think that they would have experimented just a little bit during these last few weeks?  Instead the left side has been a constant and that frankly has nothing to do with Morse' situation because Long or Feliciano or Teller could have been plugged in to see how they might make the left side better.  Thanks for the video clips … we always seem to be looking for the guy to beat up on with hyperboles. 

[BurpleBull]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Spain is better than Long. Seen a lot of both. 

 

 

If you were to assign letter grades to Dawkins, Spain, and Long, what would they be? 

[Big Turk]

7 hours ago, aristocrat said:

he was going up against Short who might be the best d tackle in the league.  

Uh, I think Aaron Donald has something to say about that...

27 minutes ago, shoretalk said:

Oops … guess he wasn't beaten on very play.  In fact, the second video shows some quality pass blocking against a very good DT.  If the coaches (And, they are the ones who actually know everything that is going on with the team.) had any doubts about his ability to play LG don't you think that they would have experimented just a little bit during these last few weeks?  Instead the left side has been a constant and that frankly has nothing to do with Morse' situation because Long or Feliciano or Teller could have been plugged in to see how they might make the left side better.  Thanks for the video clips … we always seem to be looking for the guy to beat up on with hyperboles. 

 

Spain practiced at RG todsy while Long moved to LG

[GunnerBill]

Dawkins B- (I think he could be higher as a guard but not enough really to base it on)

Spain B 

Long C

[Paul Costa]

Cover 1 has a nice article about the O line in the Carolina game. Goes against this original premise.

1 hour ago, GG said:

 

The first part of your post is correct.  Until you got to Teller.  He had a very good game, and held up better against the same guys than Spain.

My point was that this original statement about Spain was so outrageous there had to be a reason. Teller is a fan favorite. He’s having a good camp. I was not trying to throw shade on Teller but of the original statement.

[GG]

5 minutes ago, Paul Costa said:

Cover 1 has a nice article about the O line in the Carolina game. Goes against this original premise.

My point was that this original statement about Spain was so outrageous there had to be a reason. Teller is a fan favorite. He’s having a good camp. I was not trying to throw shade on Teller but of the original statement.

Misunderstood the post.  Thought you implied that Teller didn't play well.  He was good on Friday. 

[Punching Bag]

8 hours ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Hyperbole is the death of the message board. 

 

As my debate teacher taught me "Exaggeration is the first weapon for people unprepared for battle if wits."

[3rdand12]

45 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

As my debate teacher taught me "Exaggeration is the first weapon for people unprepared for battle if wits."

 a Master you had , so it seems.
well done Lime

[The Bills Blog]

It seems odd because, unless I'm missing something, he appears to be clearly out of shape. And I wouldn't think that would fly under McDermott.

[John from Riverside]

Went back and took a second look at Spain' play with my Tivo focusing on him

 

Spain won a lot more of those battles then he lost.....he had the one play where he got shoved out of the way and a defender got past him to get McCoy in the backfield

 

But other then that.....against a good Panther's DL....Spain was solid....and he will get out in front of a screen and actually try to hit somebody

[LSHMEAB]

15 hours ago, Logic said:

He was not getting beat on every single snap. He was beat a couple of times by Kawaan Short, who is one of the best in the business. Short gets paid, too.

The book on Spain has already been written: He's an above average run blocker and an average pass blocker. Everything we've seen thus far in camp and preseason backs up this notion. 

There's a reason he's been basically the unquestioned starter at left guard since camp opened. He clearly brings stability and skill that the coaching staff likes. Notice that with all the mixing and matching they have done on the o-line "to find the best five guys", Spain has pretty much been a constant.

He'll be fine.

I feel like this whole thing is based on one awkward play where Short disengaged and took a perfect angle at Allen. Spain was fine IMO. Allen had a CLEAN pocket on the overwhelming majority of his dropbacks, so I'm not exactly sure how the OP surmised that Spain was consistently getting beat. 

[mrags]

48 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

I feel like this whole thing is based on one awkward play where Short disengaged and took a perfect angle at Allen. Spain was fine IMO. Allen had a CLEAN pocket on the overwhelming majority of his dropbacks, so I'm not exactly sure how the OP surmised that Spain was consistently getting beat. 

The easy answer is that some people are not that smart to realize that just because you get beat once, or even a few times that you're not terrible. Some people fail to realize that this league has almost 1,700 players in it and forget that other players can be really good too. Or some people just have expectations that a player on their team has to be the best ever no matter what in order to be effective.  

 

This line is lightyears ahead of where they were last year. And that’s without Morse right now. 

 

Relax people, everything will be fine. 

Edited August 20, 2019 by mrags

[Aussie Joe]

I got a feeling Spain will provide average play this year ( I will happily take that over last year’s efforts..)

 

He  is getting paid $2mil this year .. not much more than what Ducasse was getting  so would suggest expectations be a little bit real.. 

 

You can’t have a superstar in every position right and our OL superstar is Morse ... (ouch)

 

 

 

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:

Went back and took a second look at Spain' play with my Tivo focusing on him

 

Spain won a lot more of those battles then he lost.....he had the one play where he got shoved out of the way and a defender got past him to get McCoy in the backfield

 

But other then that.....against a good Panther's DL....Spain was solid....and he will get out in front of a screen and actually try to hit somebody

 

Watch it again. That wasn't his guy it was Dawkins's. 

[CSBill]

19 hours ago, r henderson said:

I just finished watching the Bills Carolina game and saw something very alarming. This is a one game observation, but Spain was getting beat on every single snap. The only way they were able to by time is with the play action. Maybe he's hurt, but his play was under whelming on that night. Constant pressure on every pla while showing very slow foot work. Comments please.  

 

Oh No! Should we bring back Ducasse, what were these coaches thinking ????