gjv001 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Good for Thomas. I'm hoping the Bills will someday have an offensive player worth being paid the highest at his position in the NFL. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 58 minutes ago, Sunshower said: As far as paying non-QBs, what better position than WR? A great WR makes your QBs job much easier. I'd much rather pay an elite WR than a LB, CB or DE. I know I'll get flogged for saying so. QB DE LT Those are the top 3 for me. Then #1WR and #1CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Formation Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 13 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: QB DE LT Those are the top 3 for me. Then #1WR and #1CB. Ain't nuttin wrong with dat. In reality though most teams are not presented with the option of choice, most of these guys never hit the market. I noticed that CB is your 5th choice, but truth is we have no other top 5 guys on the roster so we might as well pay Tre when that time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Well there goes the WR market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: QB DE LT Those are the top 3 for me. Then #1WR and #1CB. Bill Polian agrees with the bold text. And, given the evolution of the game since he became a GM, he might even agree with four and five being a WR and CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sunshower said: Ain't nuttin wrong with dat. In reality though most teams are not presented with the option of choice, most of these guys never hit the market. I noticed that CB is your 5th choice, but truth is we have no other top 5 guys on the roster so we might as well pay Tre when that time comes. Yea - I'd pay all five of those spots when I get a franchise guy in those positions. You can't always choose the order you pay in. When you get one - pay them. They have to pay Tre White. 3 minutes ago, K-9 said: Bill Polian agrees with the bold text. And, given the evolution of the game since he became a GM, he might even agree with four and five being a WR and CB. The Quarterback. The guys that disrupts the quarterback. The guy that protects the Quarterback. It is a Quarterback league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said: The Quarterback. The guys that disrupts the quarterback. The guy that protects the Quarterback. It is a Quarterback league. Got that right. What’s interesting to me is that I first heard him state his positional importance theory in ‘84. That long ago. It’s always been a QB’s league and it always will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 57 minutes ago, MR8 said: My point is you don't win BS because of you have great WRS... the year Brady had Moss they didn't win, and last year when Thomas almost went to the SB he still had Brees throwing to him... so it still boils down to QB play. How many SBs did Moss win again? Right 0... How about TO? Right 0... QBs win SBs in today's NFL... that's my point. I would never pay a WR the money these WRs today are getting... I see your point about wanting to pay the non-divas over the divas, but I still wouldn't pay any of them. WRs get dinged up too readily... look at AJ Green going down, Sterling Shepherd, Jamison Crowder, Corey Coleman, these were just this week... Some are a bigger deal than others, but because of this risk they just aren't good investments. JMO though... I'd rather have a group of 3 #2 WRs at $10M each than one #1 WR at $20M and then need to have price line negotiated WRs at $5M each behind him because that 1 guy is sucking up all the cap for the position. So because the 19-0 Patriots lose one game on a miracle catch, great receivers shouldn’t get paid? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, Buffalo03 said: Michael Thomas is good, but $100 million? Uhh...yeah! He's top 5 in a very deep pool of WR talent. Scrub QBs like Keenum and Bortles have been paid $18-$20 mill per season. No reason for premier talents at the skill positions not to be paid accordingly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Boo Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, MR8 said: I'd rather have a group of 3 #2 WRs at $10M each than one #1 WR at $20M and then need to have price line negotiated WRs at $5M each behind him because that 1 guy is sucking up all the cap for the position. How many teams, not named the Patriots, have won a Super Bowl with a group of #2 & #3 receivers? Money ball doesn't work in the NFL, unless you're Bill Belichick. You know...the greatest coach of all time. Edited July 31, 2019 by Chicken Boo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, MR8 said: Yeah, QBs make the WR, not vice versa... we've seen that with guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Megatron.... the list goes on of GREAT WRs who've never won a SB... Paying this kind of money to a WR who is largely a product of playing with Brees, as you pointed out, is a mistake... I mean It’s really about “ keeping the band together” here. Yes, it’s largely the QB, but the combo is proven so you make it last as long as it can. Might only be a couple of seasons, but that team thinks it can win the Super Bowl so the deal gets done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerBill Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 52 minutes ago, K-9 said: Got that right. What’s interesting to me is that I first heard him state his positional importance theory in ‘84. That long ago. It’s always been a QB’s league and it always will be. '84 you say? Yea.... that's the year I was born you old timer..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 It's not a crazy deal for a WR like him--especially when a bum like Sammy Watkins is getting only 4 million per year less. Problem is when Brees is gone, Thomas is going to be a very expensive hood ornament on an AMC Pacer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Gotta see the details.....heard he was dead set on the 20M per number....but the guaranteed and what he gets first 3 years are key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aristocrat Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 pats do a great job at spreading the money out. edelman was on pace for about 1140 yards last year and makes like 7 mil per. insane steal of a contract. they pay a lot in their secondary, lbs, o line, qb, tight end. not so much in wrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, Bills2ref said: Antonio Brown is not going to be happy. How long until his next hold out? ...I'm thinkin' Friday..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalophil1948 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 hours ago, K-9 said: Got that right. But he is really gonna be unhappy when he sees that Carr ain’t the same kind of pitcher as Roethlisberger. Yeah Carr doesn't try to force it in like Rapelisberger 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Just now, Buffalophil1948 said: Yeah Carr doesn't try to force it in like Rapelisberger Carr can’t extend plays that allow receivers more time to lose DBs like Roethlisberger, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 18 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said: ...I'm thinkin' Friday..... I don’t even think AB has practiced yet. Day to day on NFI list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 The Saints never seem to have money, always seem to sign guys to insane contracts, and are always a game or play or two away from making a serious run at the Lombardi. Sure, most has to do with the combination of Brees and Payton but still. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MR8 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 hour ago, C.Biscuit97 said: So because the 19-0 Patriots lose one game on a miracle catch, great receivers shouldn’t get paid? Yes because that's the only thing i have said, so you should latch on to 1 single solitary part of my argument and blow it up like that's all I am saying.... smh... 1 hour ago, Boatdrinks said: It’s really about “ keeping the band together” here. Yes, it’s largely the QB, but the combo is proven so you make it last as long as it can. Might only be a couple of seasons, but that team thinks it can win the Super Bowl so the deal gets done. Doesn't make it a good deal... and the guys they will lose along the way with that much cap wrapped up in Thomas eventually will make it a bad deal. Missed opportunity cost for retaining other guys or signing linemen to protect their AARP QB... Hes an amazing QB don't get me wrong, but 1 weapon shouldn't take up that much of their ability to spend on offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 45 minutes ago, Kelly the Dog said: The Saints never seem to have money, always seem to sign guys to insane contracts, and are always a game or play or two away from making a serious run at the Lombardi. Sure, most has to do with the combination of Brees and Payton but still. Yep. Lattimore and Kamara contracts on the horizon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, K-9 said: Got that right. But he is really gonna be unhappy when he sees that Carr ain’t the same kind of pitcher as Roethlisberger. How about Peterman - he is in Roethlisberger class right? Practically the same arm strength, but Peterman is more mobile. Sarcasm off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: Yep. Lattimore and Kamara contracts on the horizon... Kamara will demand a boatload. Both of them. And somehow they will likely do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hondo in seattle Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, K-9 said: All players are worth whatever a team is willing to pay them. When we say he's not worth that kind of money, what most of us mean is that if we were GMs, we wouldn't offer him that amount even given the realities of the NFL pay scale. It's too much cap space invested in one player who only touches the ball a fraction of the time. The spend versus contribution is disproportionate. Well, that's what I think anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said: When we say he's not worth that kind of money, what most of us mean is that if we were GMs, we wouldn't offer him that amount even given the realities of the NFL pay scale. It's too much cap space invested in one player who only touches the ball a fraction of the time. The spend versus contribution is disproportionate. Well, that's what I think anyway. I appreciate where you're coming from, but what he's paid (his worth) and what his cap hit is are two different animals. The cap and managing it are a dynamic, fluid element that's constantly in flux. Other aspects of the cap can me managed to mitigate possible negative impacts Thomas's deal might present down the road and they will have to be vigilant as all teams need to be. I can respect the Saints wanting to seize the moment within a narrowing window given Breez's age. I also appreciate the idea of the negligible amount of touches a wideout might garner, but his presence impacts others that touch the ball as well on a play to play basis. If a DC has to devote more resources to counter Thomas, that's a value he brings without having to touch the ball at all. Anyway, it's on him to justify his new deal. And with Breez pitching, I think he will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, K-9 said: I appreciate where you're coming from, but what he's paid (his worth) and what his cap hit is are two different animals. The cap and managing it are a dynamic, fluid element that's constantly in flux. Other aspects of the cap can me managed to mitigate possible negative impacts Thomas's deal might present down the road and they will have to be vigilant as all teams need to be. I can respect the Saints wanting to seize the moment within a narrowing window given Breez's age. I also appreciate the idea of the negligible amount of touches a wideout might garner, but his presence impacts others that touch the ball as well on a play to play basis. If a DC has to devote more resources to counter Thomas, that's a value he brings without having to touch the ball at all. Anyway, it's on him to justify his new deal. And with Breez pitching, I think he will. This is a key point and is the reason I believe WR is the second most important position in the NFL. A fast, play-making WR (or two) will open up opportunities for other positions, like RB and TE, in addition to making big plays himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auburnbillsbacker Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Every contract looks huge until the next offseason. They have so much cheap young talent they are fine paying Thomas big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 2 hours ago, hondo in seattle said: When we say he's not worth that kind of money, what most of us mean is that if we were GMs, we wouldn't offer him that amount even given the realities of the NFL pay scale. It's too much cap space invested in one player who only touches the ball a fraction of the time. The spend versus contribution is disproportionate. Well, that's what I think anyway. Well the Bills have 10% of their available cap this year invested in a guy with a history of concussions who just got concussed again on the first day of full contact in training camp soooo....I know centers technically “touch” the ball a lot but still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 4 hours ago, YoloinOhio said: I don’t even think AB has practiced yet. Day to day on NFI list ...conserving his energy to give Chuckie the "mo money news".......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malazan Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 ...and they could have had Sammy Watkins for only 16 mill per. The FOOLS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 I think the Patriots have adequately demonstrated that it is not the WR, but the QB that matters. There's no need to be spending that kind of money on a virtuoso receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted July 31, 2019 Author Share Posted July 31, 2019 33 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I think the Patriots have adequately demonstrated that it is not the WR, but the QB that matters. There's no need to be spending that kind of money on a virtuoso receiver. He’s in a good situation, but they didn’t pay him 20 mill a year because there are other guys that have or will do what he has done in that offense. Brees has been playing for a long time. He’s never had a WR like this. They are a good match, but they make each other better. Not a one-way thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 39 minutes ago, Nextmanup said: I think the Patriots have adequately demonstrated that it is not the WR, but the QB that matters. There's no need to be spending that kind of money on a virtuoso receiver. Perhaps...if you happen to have the greatest head coach and QB of all time. Not exactly a repeatable formula. Trivia Question: Who was the MVP of this past Super Bowl and what position did he play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlayoffsPlease Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 9 hours ago, MR8 said: Yeah, QBs make the WR, not vice versa... we've seen that with guys like AJ Green, Julio Jones, Megatron.... the list goes on of GREAT WRs who've never won a SB... Paying this kind of money to a WR who is largely a product of playing with Brees, as you pointed out, is a mistake... I mean Jerry Rice put two QBS n the HOF. Calvn Johnson made Matt Stafford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 5 minutes ago, PlayoffsPlease said: Jerry Rice put two QBS n the HOF. Calvn Johnson made Matt Stafford. Yeah....and they were otherwise completely shaky enshrines! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommonCents Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 He’s aight, he is no Hakeem Butler tho ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boatdrinks Posted August 1, 2019 Share Posted August 1, 2019 11 hours ago, MR8 said: Yes because that's the only thing i have said, so you should latch on to 1 single solitary part of my argument and blow it up like that's all I am saying.... smh... Doesn't make it a good deal... and the guys they will lose along the way with that much cap wrapped up in Thomas eventually will make it a bad deal. Missed opportunity cost for retaining other guys or signing linemen to protect their AARP QB... Hes an amazing QB don't get me wrong, but 1 weapon shouldn't take up that much of their ability to spend on offense. Never said it was a good deal, just pointing out their rationale. Minute by minute league now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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