Josh Allen: Film Review From a Cynical Man

[downunderbill]

10 hours ago, Ga boy said:

Bravo on seeing things without rose tinted glasses.  I want Josh to be the answer, but the flaws can't be ignored.  I don't understand why we didn't draft an accurate QB in rounds 4-7.  Guess what:  Pats did.  Remember, this is same group who thought Peterman could.

 

Yes, the Pats scored Tom Brady in the sixth so why can't the Bills? It's that simple.

[MacGyver]

He needs to win, then I'll take this latest QB seriously. Until then, to me, he's a 50% passer.

 

I'm at the point in my Bills fandom career where I don't want to hear all the off season upbeat BS.

 

Mid season, I don't want to hear excuses on why something isn't working.

 

I am only going to accept that the franchise has truly changed when I see important playoff implicating wins.

 

Allen and the franchise have a lot to prove to a lot of fans.

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

7 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

I won't disagree with most of that.  But I do disagree with the strategy used.  

 

I don't agree with drafting, at major draft pick expense and a slew of picks that could have rebuilt the OL last year so that 'we'd have some existing chemistry this year, for the riskiest and small school QB in the draft.  

 

We'll see, if their strategy works out we're all set.  If not, as I've said, McD and Beane will be gone and we'll be hoping that Pegula "finally" hires a competent coach and GM, ... again.  Given his/their history with the Bills and Sabres to date, I'm not sure I'd bet a whole lot on that happening, as we enter the criticial option and stadium issue years where we'll need all the help we can get.  

 

Of their risky small school picks Jones isn't long for the team.  Allen's already facing an uphill battle.  I wouldn't bet a plug nickel that Singletary will be anything but a role-playing receiving back.  As to Oliver, he may be OK, but I fully expect that he's going to underachieve.  He couldn't handle double-teams in college, so he clearly wont' handle them in the NFL.  Man-to-man he was inconsistent, so not seeing why that should improve here, in the NFL either.  At this point if he turns into an average DT I'd say we'll be fortunate.  

 

Anyway, nothing I or we can do about it but sit back and watch.  I simply don't see any methodolgy to their approach.  Last year it was trade up for Allen and rely upon a QB that everyone but McD knew wasn't going anywhere in this league.  That alone raises questions.  

 

As to free agency, what are the big hurrahs?  What, Lotulolei, Brown, Morse, Benjamin (at the time), Murphy, Beasley?  Not impressed.  Apart from all but one, the biggest underachieving one, being injury risks, none are much beyond marginally above-average as starters.  

 

Again, I would have stocked the WR and OL last year with our first five picks, also taken Edmunds at 12th.  I would have waited until this year to draft a QB.  I'd be a lot more comfortable with Lock.  

 

 

 

You speak as if you have looked into the future and you're awaiting an eventual tear down. Pegulas suck, McBeane sucks, Allen sucks, Oliver sucks (what are you even talking about with double teams? He beat plenty of them...), Zay sucks (2nd round pick btw, not a 1st), Beasley...Brown meh, Drew Lock is a stud! Should have just reached for need at O-line and WR regardless of who's on the board...

 

Why does there have to be a "big hurrah" every year in free agency? The Bills just needed to get better, which I believe they have done. Sure, the Star deal was a bit of a head scratcher, but IMO he was brought in for his knowledge of the defense and because he fits the culture being built by McDermott. And he fit a need in this defense and actually had a pretty good year IMO. 

 

I get the idea that a lot of people have already come to the opposite conclusion as you, and have proclaimed all FA signings and draft picks as wins, and that Allen is God, but you seem to be at fault in the same manner, just in a pessimistic narrative instead of optimistic. A more accurate and true (not assumptions) depiction of this team wouldn't sound as negative as what you've provided. You used the Jets game to try and prove a point about Allen, yet your assessment of what you saw was flawed and biased going in, and it showed clearly in your dissection. 

 

Truth is, no one knows how this all plays out. You seem to think the Bills are doing all the wrong things and that it WILL NOT work out. On the other hand, there's a much larger contingency of people that seem to think the opposite and are at least excited to wait and see if things do come to fruition, and I'm not talking about the typical kool aide drinkers. I'm talking about people that use facts and truth to try and form an honest opinion. This staff has made some mistakes, and some moves that may or may not end up being mistakes, but raise an eyebrow at the time (trading away the Mahomes pick, for example). But a lot of these questions take years to answer. I'm content enough, based on how this team is being operated and forming into shape, to let it all play out. To each his own, I guess.

[BigPappy]

14 hours ago, KzooMike said:

I don't think I'm alone in feeling the way I do. I think many of you feel the same way. It's hard to trust this team. It's hard to trust the QB position. 20 years of psychological warfare, unmet expectations, disappointment. This is one of the most emotionally invested fan bases in the NFL. We have been burned so repetitively we have become split between two groups of people. Ones that can let go of the past be optimistic and move forward, then another group that is just as passionate and loyal but defends themselves emotionally by lowering expectations. I'm part of the latter but always fighting myself to push closer towards the former.

 

I saw things in Allen's statistical profile last year that concerned me a great deal. How often he was running. Accuracy issues. Topics discussed many times on this forum as indicators to be cautious. I spent a lot time watching film on Josh this weekend. From the eyes of an emotionally defeated, lowered expectation, pessimist, this is what I saw. 

 

A kid in the shape of a giant outrunning defenders not because he couldn't read progressions or step up in the pocket, but because he was either forced to roll out or more often because the defensive line completely over pursued. He took advantage of mistakes defenses made and put DC's on notice this year. If you want to play pin the ears back and undisciplined in your pass rush he will make you pay.

 

I saw this man child hit the deep middle 20 yard throw like no QB we have had since Bledsoe (who for all his shortcomings delivered that as well as anybody). I saw him often not stepping up in the pocket and delivering the ball awkwardly, but it was not because he was afraid it was because the DL was under his chin. Shockingly, he still delivered ropes all over the field from this position. 

 

I saw a player that can make every conceivable throw a QB can make in this league and many the majority of QB's could not. A player that when in cadence and rhythm was decisive and accurate. Somebody fully capable of turning absolutely nothing into not only positive yardage but sometimes a lot more. Oh by the way,  a natural leader that inspired his teammates.

 

You would have to have beaten Bills syndrome to the fullest level to not see the same things. Allen is a special player. He carried this offense as rookie void of any talent around him on his back last year. This year he has some weapons. So why not Buffalo, lets do this one more time. I'm on board and will put the past behind me. I think we make the playoffs this season. Then I think we challenge for what we really want in the years to come.  

 

Speaking as someone who was heavily invested emotionally with this team, take each win or loss for what they are. A game. I was to the point that their losing effected my family life with my kids and that wasn't good. I say to anyone that is at or near that point, take a step back and take a breath; remember it's just a game. Enjoy the wins....and if they lose they lose.  Don't get me wrong. I still love this team, I just no longer let it control me.

Edited June 17, 2019 by BigPappy

[Inigo Montoya]

8 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

I won't disagree with most of that.  But I do disagree with the strategy used.  

 

I don't agree with drafting, at major draft pick expense and a slew of picks that could have rebuilt the OL last year so that 'we'd have some existing chemistry this year, for the riskiest and small school QB in the draft.  

 

We'll see, if their strategy works out we're all set.  If not, as I've said, McD and Beane will be gone and we'll be hoping that Pegula "finally" hires a competent coach and GM, ... again.  Given his/their history with the Bills and Sabres to date, I'm not sure I'd bet a whole lot on that happening, as we enter the criticial option and stadium issue years where we'll need all the help we can get.  

 

Of their risky small school picks Jones isn't long for the team.  Allen's already facing an uphill battle.  I wouldn't bet a plug nickel that Singletary will be anything but a role-playing receiving back.  As to Oliver, he may be OK, but I fully expect that he's going to underachieve.  He couldn't handle double-teams in college, so he clearly wont' handle them in the NFL.  Man-to-man he was inconsistent, so not seeing why that should improve here, in the NFL either.  At this point if he turns into an average DT I'd say we'll be fortunate.  

 

Anyway, nothing I or we can do about it but sit back and watch.  I simply don't see any methodolgy to their approach.  Last year it was trade up for Allen and rely upon a QB that everyone but McD knew wasn't going anywhere in this league.  That alone raises questions.  

 

As to free agency, what are the big hurrahs?  What, Lotulolei, Brown, Morse, Benjamin (at the time), Murphy, Beasley?  Not impressed.  Apart from all but one, the biggest underachieving one, being injury risks, none are much beyond marginally above-average as starters.  

 

Again, I would have stocked the WR and OL last year with our first five picks, also taken Edmunds at 12th.  I would have waited until this year to draft a QB.  I'd be a lot more comfortable with Lock.  

 

 

 

Wow...

 

You should apply for a position as someone's ex-wife

[Punching Bag]

15 hours ago, KzooMike said:

I don't think I'm alone in feeling the way I do.

 

It is hard to trust you, your opinion that is. 

 

[CincyBillsFan]

9 hours ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

The third was week 17. Aside from a pick 6 into double coverage, it was a very good game from Josh. 5 total TDs, 3 passing, a real nice scramble for a TD blowout win. It was kind of a culmination of the year one progression we witnessed from Josh post injury.

 

 

For me Allen's response to this bad play provided me with more reason to be optimistic then any one of his spectacular plays.  We knew the kid had freakish arm talent and we quickly learned (vikings game) that he had freakish athletic talent.  These are two things you can't teach and our guy had them which is a good thing. 

 

But mental toughness is also hard to learn and Allen throwing a pick six at the end of the half to allow Miami to tie up a game they were trailing 14 - 0 had all the earmarks of a disaster in the making.  How many of you thought that coming out of the locker room we would go 3 & out or even worse Allen would throw another pick and the Dolphins would win the game?  I know I was worried that the game was on that trajectory.  Instead Allen comes out of the locker room takes the team on a 75 yard TD drive in which he makes 2 great throws (one for a TD) and had a huge run. 

 

These are the "little" that you want to see in your QB.  And this is one of the reasons I'm optimistic for next season. 

[CincyBillsFan]

8 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

We're not talking about Darnold.  Honestly ... 

 

But OK then, Darnold sucked, but Allen sucked twice as bad. 

 

 

Seriously, you're saying Allen was twice as bad as Darnold in this game?  Twice as BAD!  As others have noted that game was lost by the special teams and a defense that couldn't hold a 4th quarter lead against a rookie QB at home.  

 

And for the record, this game made me think that Darnold is going to be a damn good QB. 

[Seasons1992]

I believe that was Josh Allen's rookie season, right?

 

As it is also true with the entire season in terms of wins and losses........I'd rather start poorly and finish strong, than start hot and totally bail out late. (Read: St. Louis Blues vs. Buffalo Sabres)

 

Let him get better as the career goes on. He struggled in his ROOKIE season; whoop-de-FRIGGIN-do. Give it a minute, peeps.

 

 

[eball]

I appreciate the intent and effort of the OP but unfortunately threads like this merely devolve into arguments and insults by people who feel the need to "be right."

 

We'll find out whether Josh Allen is the QB we all want him to be soon enough.  Some fans are optimistic, some are not.

[Protocal69]

4 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:

 

Seriously, you're saying Allen was twice as bad as Darnold in this game?  Twice as BAD!  As others have noted that game was lost by the special teams and a defense that couldn't hold a 4th quarter lead against a rookie QB at home.  

 

And for the record, this game made me think that Darnold is going to be a damn good QB. 

It did the same for me regarding Darnold. He sucked in the game as a whole but he showed me a lot in the 4th with 3 dime passes. It made me go watch the rest of his tape to see that he has a future as long as the Jets don’t screw it up

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

15 hours ago, JOE IN HAMPTON ROADS said:

that didn't take long lol

 

 

.....should be a couple of others along shortly......TBD's "Three Headed Monster".................

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

5 hours ago, Inigo Montoya said:

 

Peyton Manning  Rookie Year

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	TD%	Int	Int%	Lng	Y/A	AY/A	Y/C	Y/G	Rate	QBR	Sk	Yds	NY/A	ANY/A	Sk%	4QC	GWD	AV
1998	22	IND	QB	18	16	16	3-13-0	326	575	56.7	3739	26	4.5	28	4.9	78	6.5	5.2	11.5	233.7	71.2		22	109	6.08	4.84	3.7	1	1	11

 

Completion percentage less than 60%.  Not accurate.

3-13 record.  Loser.

Only one 4th quarter comeback and one game winning drive.  Not clutch.

26 touchdowns to 28 INT.  Interception machine.

 

Peyton Manning = Bust

 

My point is to have everyone take a breath and give Allen a chance to learn the game.   I'm so glad someone didn't decide that I was a bust at my job my first year out of school.  There is no substitute for experience.  Why don't we give the kid an honest chance to gain some and then see where he stands.

 

 

Every player that ever played is exactly the same forever, and if they play the Jets that first year you can literally see the mistakes they will always make if you watch the game in slow motion frame by painful frame. You know that there were no broken plays, no misreads, no missed blocks or  no receivers running the wrong route and the play call is telegraphed. 

 

In fact, look at rg3.  Had a very good first year and was exactly the same QB with the same results leading to multiple playoff wins, 2 SB championships and all his wildest dreams came true. 

 

As for Peyton Manning, you're obviously making things up because of what I just said. 

[CincyBillsFan]

It is odd to see the negativism rising up in response to an excellent post by KZoomike. 

 

Most Allen supporters are fully aware of the kids shortcomings and what he needs to work on.  We are also aware that the chances he ends up a bust are better then the odds he ends up our franchise QB.  But when looking at an NFL QB you have to apply Baseball logic.  That is a lifetime batting average of 300 likely gets you in the HOF even though you're only getting a hit 30% of the time.  A pessimist would say that sucks!  The same applies to the NFL where the odds of drafting a great QB are low.  So when a kid shows signs of possibly being THAT GUY, I choose optimism. The idea that being optimistic about Allen's future with the Bills is the same as viewing Allen through rose colored glasses is just plain wrong.  

 

Down here in Cincinnati When friends ask me about the Bills Super Bowl losses I always tell them that I would rather go four times in a row and lose every one of them then never to have gone.  For four magical years we had something special and the joy I got from reaching four straight Super Bowls easily overwhelmed the bitterness of the four straight losses.  That's how I'll view Allen.  He's shown me enough to justify my optimism and even if he never lives up to expectations I'll have enjoyed the time of optimism.

 

The alternative is to walk around with a permanent rain cloud over your head. 

[Aireskoi]

19 minutes ago, eball said:

I appreciate the intent and effort of the OP but unfortunately threads like this merely devolve into arguments and insults by people who feel the need to "be right."

 

We'll find out whether Josh Allen is the QB we all want him to be soon enough.  Some fans are optimistic, some are not.

 

I'm extremely optimistic about Allen, so I need the balance from the more doubtful few.

 

We have about 6 weeks of this punching back and forth to read before anything new happens.

 

Remember it's a marathon guys, don't go too hard too soon or you'll get winded.

 

 

 

<watching while eating popcorn with great delight pic>

 

[colin]

didn't he have like 75 yards of big passes on like 3 plays lost due to easy pass drops and penalties in that jests game?  also, didn't our special teams basically lose the game for us?

 

allen's career is starting like elway's or Favre's did, and that's who he is, FavrElway, a future champion and hall of famer!

[Cornette's Commentary]

6 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

As unfortunate as it is, many posters take that same level of invested emotional overreaction to the forums. 

 

Please don't take this personally, but I've never understood anyone that would let the performance of the team, no matter how poor, affect their personal lives or interactions with others, particularly family members.  I've read a number of poeple post the same thing tho.  I applaud you for recognizing that and for stepping back in life.  Sports should be for a positive emotional experience.  If that doesn't occur, I simply wait until it does.  I don't go to games anymore and until further notice.  I cancelled my seasons years ago accompanied with a letter that told the team that when they got serious about building a winner I'd start buying tickets again. Hasn't happened as of yet and I don't believe anything they tell me anymore.  Every year we're on the cusp of a major turnaround, no different this year.  

 

Some people let gamedays entirely ruin their Sundays, for the life of me I cannot even remotely fathom that other than being irritated that they wasted four hours of their day, longer if they went to the game, and perhaps a some money, on something that aggravates them. 

 

But again, that same emotional lack of control shows up here to disallow any ratioinal discussion of the team, coaches, methodologies, etc.  

 

Case in point, some people react to my posts as others would to an armed robbery of their home.  LOL 

[Alphadawg7]

16 hours ago, SoTier said:

If will, drive, and leadership were all it took to become a great NFL QB, then Allen would undoubtedly become one.  Unfortunately, that's enough.  He has to develop the physical skills and learn to make good decisions under pressure in order to become a good enough QB to consistently lead his team to wins.   It's a tall order for Allen because he came into the NFL so raw and unprepared, and bnumerous first roundQB prospects who had excellent physical skills and were much more "NFL ready" than he was have failed that same test. 

 

At this point, nobody really knows just how good he can be, but he probably has to show significant improvement in order to have a better career than guys like Tannehill or Bortles.

 

The “NFL ready” thing media arm chair draft pundits use is over exaggerated IMO.  They are almost never right about that, an no QB is NFL ready coming into the league.  It’s just that NFL QB is the most complicated and difficult position to learn and play well at in all of professional sports, so no matter what you did in college, you’re not ready and will have a lot to learn and get down before you can put it together on the field.

 

Case in point:  The most “pro ready” guy was the worst of the first 5 QBs chosen (Rosen) and the least ready QBs in Allen and Lamar both carried their offenses, one of which was into the playoffs and Allen was easily the 2nd best rookie behind only Baker.  

[thebandit27]

13 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

 

 

I'm also not seeing the same things as you did in the game videos nearly to the same scale.  I see Allen with plenty of time quite often, suggesting that our OL probably wasn't as bad as everyone seems to want it to be in defense of Allen, while utterly failing to see numerous wide-open receivers, very often with those receivers waving furiously only to let their arms flop frustratingly back down as Allen didn't see them, something that all average QBs do on a routine basis.  

 

  

 

 

 

Then you don't know what you're watching:

 

 

Good thing Allen can get himself out of those situations:

 

 

Also, this is at least the 5th time you've alluded to WRs flailing their arms in frustration.  I let it go the first 4 times, now, on #5, I'll ask you to show me a few examples, since it happened so regularly.

[Chandler#81]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

If you ask me,

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

Again, call me nuts.  

 

 

 

BLAH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BLAH

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

BLAH

 

NOBODY asked you. You’re incredibly boring and bring nothing to football conversations.

 

Now go outside and play.

 

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

 

[Captain Hindsight]

23 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

As unfortunate as it is, many posters take that same level of invested emotional overreaction to the forums. 

 

Please don't take this personally, but I've never understood anyone that would let the performance of the team, no matter how poor, affect their personal lives or interactions with others, particularly family members.  I've read a number of poeple post the same thing tho.  I applaud you for recognizing that and for stepping back in life.  Sports should be for a positive emotional experience.  If that doesn't occur, I simply wait until it does.  I don't go to games anymore and until further notice.  I cancelled my seasons years ago accompanied with a letter that told the team that when they got serious about building a winner I'd start buying tickets again. Hasn't happened as of yet and I don't believe anything they tell me anymore.  Every year we're on the cusp of a major turnaround, no different this year.  

 

Some people let gamedays entirely ruin their Sundays, for the life of me I cannot even remotely fathom that other than being irritated that they wasted four hours of their day, longer if they went to the game, and perhaps a some money, on something that aggravates them. 

 

But again, that same emotional lack of control shows up here to disallow any ratioinal discussion of the team, coaches, methodologies, etc.  

 

Case in point, some people react to my posts as others would to an armed robbery of their home.  LOL 

I've gotten a lot better. I used to let it control my whole day. Now I usually am bummed for about an hour or so but then move on. I'm always much happier after a win of course

 

The only time i'm ever legit angry, is when I feel cheated or made out to be a sucker. Last time was when they trotted out Peterman against the Bears. I felt like I was wasting my money and was more upset by that, than the actual loss

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, CincyBillsFan said:

Down here in Cincinnati When friends ask me about the Bills Super Bowl losses I always tell them that I would rather go four times in a row and lose every one of them then never to have gone.  For four magical years we had something special and the joy I got from reaching four straight Super Bowls easily overwhelmed the bitterness of the four straight losses.  That's how I'll view Allen.  He's shown me enough to justify my optimism and even if he never lives up to expectations I'll have enjoyed the time of optimism.  

 

The alternative is to walk around with a permanent rain cloud over your head. 

 

OBD continues to provide the rain cloud.   

 

For all of my posting I don't even approach letting the Bills shape my emotional disposition like so many fans do.  For me it's all about the analysis.  

 

The joy of that '90s team is a distant memory, albeit it a fantastic one!  

 

I'm still awaiting the day as back then, when we could go to or otherwise watch a game with the expectation of winning, not merely the hope of winning.  

 

Hopefully this will be the season that things turnaround, but we've been saying that for what, 20-some years now.  Memories only do so much for the present.  

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

I've gotten a lot better. I used to let it control my whole day. Now I usually am bummed for about an hour or so but then move on. I'm always much happier after a win of course

 

The only time i'm ever legit angry, is when I feel cheated or made out to be a sucker. Last time was when they trotted out Peterman against the Bears. I felt like I was wasting my money and was more upset by that, than the actual loss

 

That was more hilarious than anger-inducing for me.  It was truly a popcorn moment.

[Captain Hindsight]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That was more hilarious than anger-inducing for me.  It was truly a popcorn moment.

I was laughing in the morning but by the third quarter I was so annoyed that this was the best a billion dollar organization could muster. 

[Ronin]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

That was more hilarious than anger-inducing for me.  It was truly a popcorn moment.

 

Ya know, and that's the way you've gotta handle it.  

 

Why fans let that stuff ruin their day, week, life, relationships is beyond me.  

[hondo in seattle]

12 hours ago, Ronin said:

 

OK, let's use the Week 14 Jets game.  

 

 

0:15:  If Allen does what average QBs do, he sees Shady at the release and hits him for a decent gain.  Instead he immediately defaults to looking downfield.  I count a good 4 seconds before he even has to think about scrambling, which is a lifetime in the pocket. 

 

0:27:  If he's thinking quickly, which he isn't, he has an opportunity hit McKenzie on the short out on 2nd-and-10 setting up a 3rd-and-short possibly even a 1st-down.  Yes, he runs for the 1st, but again, at the expense of the passing game and risk of injury.  

 

0:42:  He misses Clay in the right flat and throws an ill-advised ball to Shady who's 7 yards behind the LoS.  

 

1:33:  Instead of relying on a seemingly good pocket Allen takes off running prematurely and fumbles the ball away.  The TO resulted in a Jets FG.  

 

2:35:  Misses Ivory in the right flat and runs instead. 

 

2:57:  On 1st-and-25 from our own 11 instead of throwing the ball away he throws a highly ill-advised pass that results in an INT.  

 

3:28:  He's got a wide-open man short-right on 2nd-and-10, whereby if he hits him we likely have a 1st-down, or close.  Instead he throws a horribly thrown (read highly inaccurate) all into multiple coverage nearly ending with an INT.  Again, I count 3+ seconds easily with no particular pressure.  

 

3:48:  Thompson makes a beautiful break to the outside on the left but Allen's inaccurate throw is way too far outside.  

 

4:05:  I suppose this is one of those "drops" that everyone talks about, but Allen throws completely behind Jones who actually made a very nice break.  Very difficult to catch ball, the announcer says "through his hands" which is ridiculous.  And you know me, hardly a Jones apologist.  Allen had plenty of time and it was about a 13-yard throw.  

 

7:50:  A dangerous and risky throw resulting in only a gain of 3.  

 

4:57:  Allen has all kinds of time but underthrows Ivory short.  At his feet.  

 

5:14:  Instead of dumping off to Ivory or throwing the ball away as he had time to do, at Ivory's feet e.g., he takes a sack.  Again, some pressure but only after 3 seconds or so.  

 

5:35:  Pressure right from the start, but instead of simply throwing the ball away once he's outside the tackle box he heaves it downfield where only a Jet defender is.  He threw a lot of picks like that.  

 

6:06:  With plenty of time on a rollout, Allen ignores a wide-open Thomas and throws into triple coverage.  Granted, complete, but risky contrasted with the easy play on 1st-and-10.  

 

6:26:  Allen, again, with plenty of time, doesn't see (or ignores) Murphy on the left and instead throws to the more heavily covered Jones.  

 

6:37:  Instead of throwing to Thomas as he comes out of his break Allen throws further downfield incomplete.  

 

7:37:  Horrible play!  Murphy comes out of the backfield and is wide open for a huge gain if Allen hits him.  Also wide open downfield is Foster.  Instead of taking what the defense gives him, Allen throws into coverage and right to Trumaine Johnson on a horribly (read inaccurate) thrown ball.  

 

Now, there's absolutely no way that those things were all the result of the "D under his chin" or no talent.  An open receiver is an open receiver, it doesn't matter if he's talented or not.  

 

On a side note, Darnold, facing our "highly ranked D," outplayed Allen.  At one point you can hear the announcers talking about how Allen's rating is around 50 and Darnold's around 80.  

 

Also, that was one of Allen's last four games where the narrative is that he improved towards the end of the season.  Another one of those four, the one prior to that last Miami game, was that horrid NE game too.  So again, not really seeing where the narrative on this improvement is real.  

 

 

This is a great breakdown....  but you're breaking down a raw rookie - one with obvious physical upside.  

 

No one at One Bills Drive, Two Bills Drive, PFF, or anywhere else knows how much progress JA will make this year.  Some choose to be optimistic.  Some pessimistic.  But it's all speculation.  

 

I'm hopeful but I need to see more before jumping on the JA fan bus or joining the Negative Nancy River of Tears Club.  

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

1 hour ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

 

Exactly.

[yungmack]

He was tagged as a project. Waiting to see if he 's actually improving which I believe he is.

Edited June 17, 2019 by yungmack

[Rocky Landing]

32 minutes ago, hondo in seattle said:

 

 

This is a great breakdown....  but you're breaking down a raw rookie - one with obvious physical upside.  

 

No one at One Bills Drive, Two Bills Drive, PFF, or anywhere else knows how much progress JA will make this year.  Some choose to be optimistic.  Some pessimistic.  But it's all speculation.  

 

I'm hopeful but I need to see more before jumping on the JA fan bus or joining the Negative Nancy River of Tears Club.  

If you compare the notes after each timeframe with the actual footage he's analyzing, you might find that it's less of "great breakdown," and more of a crusade. At best, it is biased. Frankly, I found it dishonest. 

[Drunken Pygmy Goat]

1 hour ago, Ronin said:

 

If you ask me, players don't leave town because of the town, they leave it because of a lack of winning, generally speaking.  You'll run into the occasional punk, we had one, that thinks that nightlife is more important than a multi-million dollar career, can't do anything about that.  As they say, winning cures everything.  So if you get good players and become good, I don't see them bolting, anymore than any other team that is, as long as the team is good.  Otherwise, sure, it's a business for the owners so why shouldn't it be all business for the players too.  That too is a significant challenge for GMs these days. 

 

It's well-known that it's much tougher to keep a team together today than it was in the '80s and '90s to be sure.  Sometimes all you get is three or four years with a given roster, if that, but with competent management and coaching it can continue.  

 

You say that the plan seems pretty clear.   Not to me, I dont' see any kind of vision here.  Yes, finding a franchise QB is much more difficult than finding other positions, but it doesn't help when you add unnecessary elements of risk in trying to do so.  

 

I don't view the "bargain strategy" as much of a vision.  Raiding other teams' OLs which weren't any better than ours, and for backups and low-end starters, to me isn't a strategy.  It's a poke-n-hope grasping at straws.  

 

So we can agree to disagree and see how things shake out.  

 

What I will say is that two years ago we were having the exact same discussion and debate about Jones when I pointed out the risks associated with drafting him.  Well, here we are.  Things don't always work out as they say.  

 

How many of the cheap  bargain free agents brought on two years ago in '17 are still with the team?   Have you looked?  

 

How about the "ringers" from last season and overall how many?  

 

From both years, how have they played?  Are fans happy?  Clearly not.  

 

So if the strategy has been working, why are we where we are, with almost everyone complaining about there being what, some holes on offense?  Hardly.  Almost everyone says that there's no talent, as in none, around Allen.  Besides Shady of course who's in completely predictable decline and who predates McBeane.  

 

Again, not seeing any positive trajectory here.  If you do, great.  That's what discussion is all about, right.  I have no problem with it.  

 

If you don't mind, allow me to look at your strategy statement.  I'll break it into parts.  

 

To me the plan seems pretty clear. The Bills are going to build their core roster via the draft and get younger (with cheaper rookie contracts),

 

OK, that's great.  But looking at our draft history I'm not exactly seeing the types of players drafted that are of the caliber that one needs for a championship run.  White from '17, OK, but no one else, least of all Jones at 37th overall instead of what to me was a no-brainer Smith-Shuster.  Last season they did pretty good with Neal and Johnson, and I love Edmunds but beyond that not so much yet if at all with Allen hanging on the balance.  But let's not forget that they turned five picks into two, which is costly otherwise, primarily to get Allen.  Everything hangs on that pick for them as a result.  

 

Cheaper contracts is one thing, but that's not really a strategy, it's what every team tries to do.  Right?  Or are there any teams out there that don't care about the draft as such?  

 

fill spots in FA with mainly bargain type deals,

 

Again, bargain is one thing, championship caliber players area another.  Beasley and Brown are good but they're far from being game-changing players.  Players like that are not difficult to come by every offseason.  As well, bargains are great, but when part of those "bargains" are injury risk, then I'm not sure how much of a bargain it is, particularly if the players aren't top-shelf to begin with.  

 

But let me ask you, while yes, that is a strategy, do you truly think that it's a good one?  Teams already struggle enough with injuries, why import additional risks, particularly in positions that you're counting on the most.  Brown, Morse, Murphy, Knox as a draftee, all in positions that we've counted on or are counting on them as part of that improvement.  All have histories of injuries that slow them down or keep them out altogether.  Again, a good overall strategy?  

 

hope their QB works out,

 

Keep in mind, this same crew was high on Peterman.  After that, yet, hope, but as they say, you make your own luck.  So too, you create your own [unnecessary] risks.  To wit, they drafted the riskest QB in the class, in a long time even, last year.  Good strategy?  We'll find out here in a few months, but let's keep this focused on the strategy.  

 

then fill remaining skill positions to put them over the top (that is when I want and expect the Bills to pursue a big FA, it may be a bit cheaper comparatively speaking). All the while focusing on retaining their best players at the most important positions

 

At this point we're not near "the top." 

 

Otherwise, such as whom?  Who are the "best players at the most important positioins" that we've signed?  I see none, not one.  No premier WRs, no premier OL-men, no premier TE, no premier RB.  

 

Name one premier or even impact player that we've signed for defense in the front-7?  Just one.  

 

it's obvious to a blind man that McD's defensive emphasis with his past specialization in the secondary is shining thru while no other team area is.  It's almost as if that's his pet project and he's happy if the secondary is tight.  Which it is, just sayin'.  But that's not how you build a D, you need viabel pass-rushers.  We don't have one much less a championship roster full of them. 

 

You're saying that drafting young players on cheap rookie contracts, which frankly isn't a strategy, it's status quo around the NFL, signing bargain players that are either low-end starters or injury risks, making the riskiest move for a QB, then filling the remaining positions with few players that are of championship caliber is a good strategy.  I'll agree, it is a strategy, I simply don't view it as a championship-developing strategy.   I see it as a strategy that may get lucky briefly, but otherwise which will reap the expected results of the numerous risks involved thereby not producing a playoff-caliber team.  Call me crazy.  

 

Contrast that with mine:  

 

We'd have had Smith Shuster.  We'd have had Edmunds, Wynn, and then three other picks to draft another OL-man and WR last year, plus another.  Let that OL gel and develop some chemistry.  Draft Lock (or another) who by-the-way is very similar to Allen in terms of strengths except that doesn't lack the fundamentals of reading Ds coming in, this year to drop in behind an OL with at least a semblance of chemistry instead of one with zero chemistry, not to mention a C that's not likely to play all 16 games, along with one more OL-man, among others, maybe a true C, go ahead and grab a free-agent like Beasley despite the fact that his production matches up poorly with Allen's splits where that production has occurred, but just sayin', sign another WR.  

 

That at least seeks to A, do everything possible for whichever QB you place your trust in, and B, tries to bring everything together for a highly problematic unit.  Not saying you have to agree, but it's a definitive strategy that at least is capable of producing the desired results.  

 

At least at that point you've got some potentially premier players on your offense that are capable of helping Allen and growing together, instead of a bunch of backup and low-end OL-men that we're going to delude ourselves are better than they actually are, and all from teams no better than we've been on offense and other than for an oft-injured Center.  I don't see a bunch of average players fraught with injury risks being the winning ticket here.  Again, call me nuts.  

 

We'll see how it all plays out this fall.  

 

 

 

 

 

First, let me just say that there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. I say that because you an SoTier are being called out as simply being negative Nancys, but personally I understand your thought processes. This time of year generally consists of two types of louder fans: the overly optimistic, and the overly pessimistic. There are several reasons for people to be classified as such, years of torment, for example, by our favorite team can lead to some people being more pessimistic than others, sometimes illogocally, sometimes rightfully so. BUT, too often, many of these fans are so far away from the fence that it makes conversating with them pointless. Their minds are made up, and if you challenge their thoughts and opinions, they instantly resoet to defense tactics and you're simply considered an idiot. That's why I hadn't posted here since the end of the season until recently (it's hard to stay away from the madness here ? for too long). 

 

As to your post, I don't have the time to properly respond to every detail right now. My post about the plan the FO has with this team may not be an ideal approach to everyone, but when planning an attack (plan), you have to first consider the state of the team and the roster at the time. To me, this was always going to be a "slow" build, quite different to what we saw with Whaley and some rather inflated contracts. Your preference for how the team should have been built may not necessarily be "wrong", but IMO, didn't quite reflect the state of the team at the time. That, and there's some hindsight involved there. I think most people were ok with Jones in the 2nd at the time, based on his track record (all-time NCAA reception record, single season NCAA recption record). Ju-ju may have been a better prospect (I didn't know enough about him or Jones at the time to have an honest opinion), and he may have had a better career than Jones so far, but there's variables to consider there that play into that hindsight. If Jones had Big Ben and Ju-ju had Tyrod, perhaps hindsight would give a different view. Same with Mahomes as Bills QB. Granted, its probably easier to say that Mahomes would have ended up being pretty good in Buffalo, but he wouldn't have had Hunt, Hill, Kelce as his weapons, no Reed as HC, so his performance last season as Bills QB would have paled in comparison to what he did in KC. 

 

I will say that I can appreciate your thought process, regardless of whether I agree or not. I like details behind reason, and not just a generic "here's what I think, and I'm right" post. But like I said, your posts seem to contain a good amount of hindsight and future telling. One thing is true, though: we all want this plan to work out. 

 

Also, I think you're selling Hughes short. He was a premiere pass rusher last season, just didn't collect the sacks as much. As far as pass rush productivity goes, I believe he was #1 or 2 in the league last year, and I believe Oliver will help Hughes collect more sacks as a penetrating and disruptive 3 tech, provided there's not a significant drop in Hughes' play. Murphy is finally healthy entering the season, so perhaps he'll play a bit better this year as well. 

 

Next year, I fully expect the Bills to address O-line and WR early and often in the draft. Free agency, for the most part, seems to be about improving while adding insurance to the roster, in the event that the draft chips don't fall ideally for the Bills. We shall see.

[YattaOkasan]

27 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

If you compare the notes after each timeframe with the actual footage he's analyzing, you might find that it's less of "great breakdown," and more of a crusade. At best, it is biased. Frankly, I found it dishonest. 

Yup.  I did the analysis and many of the throws to the flats were not that open (in the 0:27 play Shady is pretty clearly being covered).  Couple of situational things too (whos gonna hit a guy in the flat on 3 and 20 or throw to the RB in the middle of the field with < 1 min).  Generally I agree his hero ball needs to stop and that should be correctable for such a raw prospect (the PFF guys contend if he hasnt learned now he never well, but I'm not so sure).  Take away hero ball and have his receivers help not hinder him would go a long way.  

[Ronin]

1 hour ago, Drunken Pygmy Goat said:

 

First, let me just say that there's nothing wrong with constructive criticism. I say that because you an SoTier are being called out as simply being negative Nancys, but personally I understand your thought processes. This time of year generally consists of two types of louder fans: the overly optimistic, and the overly pessimistic. There are several reasons for people to be classified as such, years of torment, for example, by our favorite team can lead to some people being more pessimistic than others, sometimes illogocally, sometimes rightfully so. BUT, too often, many of these fans are so far away from the fence that it makes conversating with them pointless. Their minds are made up, and if you challenge their thoughts and opinions, they instantly resoet to defense tactics and you're simply considered an idiot. That's why I hadn't posted here since the end of the season until recently (it's hard to stay away from the madness here ? for too long). 

 

As to your post, I don't have the time to properly respond to every detail right now. My post about the plan the FO has with this team may not be an ideal approach to everyone, but when planning an attack (plan), you have to first consider the state of the team and the roster at the time. To me, this was always going to be a "slow" build, quite different to what we saw with Whaley and some rather inflated contracts. Your preference for how the team should have been built may not necessarily be "wrong", but IMO, didn't quite reflect the state of the team at the time. That, and there's some hindsight involved there. I think most people were ok with Jones in the 2nd at the time, based on his track record (all-time NCAA reception record, single season NCAA recption record). Ju-ju may have been a better prospect (I didn't know enough about him or Jones at the time to have an honest opinion), and he may have had a better career than Jones so far, but there's variables to consider there that play into that hindsight. If Jones had Big Ben and Ju-ju had Tyrod, perhaps hindsight would give a different view. Same with Mahomes as Bills QB. Granted, its probably easier to say that Mahomes would have ended up being pretty good in Buffalo, but he wouldn't have had Hunt, Hill, Kelce as his weapons, no Reed as HC, so his performance last season as Bills QB would have paled in comparison to what he did in KC. 

 

I will say that I can appreciate your thought process, regardless of whether I agree or not. I like details behind reason, and not just a generic "here's what I think, and I'm right" post. But like I said, your posts seem to contain a good amount of hindsight and future telling. One thing is true, though: we all want this plan to work out. 

 

Also, I think you're selling Hughes short. He was a premiere pass rusher last season, just didn't collect the sacks as much. As far as pass rush productivity goes, I believe he was #1 or 2 in the league last year, and I believe Oliver will help Hughes collect more sacks as a penetrating and disruptive 3 tech, provided there's not a significant drop in Hughes' play. Murphy is finally healthy entering the season, so perhaps he'll play a bit better this year as well. 

 

Next year, I fully expect the Bills to address O-line and WR early and often in the draft. Free agency, for the most part, seems to be about improving while adding insurance to the roster, in the event that the draft chips don't fall ideally for the Bills. We shall see.

 

Thanks for the great and rational back-n-forth!!!  

 

I always lay out my thinking and "would have's" clearly here.  Everyone knows, unmistakably, that I don't think that Oliver is going to meet expectations and that I think that Singletary has little more potential than other as a role-playing receiving back.  If we're lucky we'll at a "Darren Sproles."  But if that comes to pass I'll have everyone telling me that "oh sure, you knew" kinda thing when I've said it all along.  It's somewhat comical.  

 

As to their  strategy, all we can do is wait as you say so we'll see.  I do think that we'll get a very clear picture this season however, more than good enough to predict the future as such.  And frankly, circumstances aside, three seasons is a typical evaluation period for newbie GMs and coaches.  Why should it be any different here.  We all know that Beane &  McD's futures hang on Allen tho.  

 

As to Jones, yes, most people were OK with Jones in the 2nd.  That's my point.  I provided all the info for people to see why it wasn't a good pick, just like I did with Spiller, Watkins, and a big number of other players  over the years, and it was scoffed at and ignored.  No worries, didn't bother me, just sayin'.  You get from what you analyze from what you put in.  I typically put in a few dozen hours of detailed analysis  on our key (1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks), more than professsional draft analysts do.  I mean who can spend that kind of time on a few hundred players, it would take years.  

 

I'll also digress on Hughes, but to start, he predates McBeane, so he doesn't factor in to the "strategy," whatever it is other than the fact that he's here.  

 

I don't know how you're measuring 1st or 2nd in the league last season, but he's averaged 5.5 sacks/season over his last five seasons, so not sure that's at the top.  He's also averaged 10 TFLs over the past four seasons, same there.  Last season he ranked in a 10-way tie for TFLs and he ranked in an 11-way tie for 38th in the league in sacks.  I'm not sure that qualifies as #1 or 2.  PFF has him rated as "Good", which is one spot above "above-average" and has only "high-quality" and "elite" above him.  So yeah, he's good, but A, he's not McBeane's acquisition, and he's not great.  22 players like him at his level and we're set tho, so there's that.  

 

And LOL, nothing personal, but you say Murphy will finally be healthy, he's had injury issues throughout his career.  So that may be temporary, hence many of my comments, eh.     To the greater point, the risk that they assumed played out as such.  

 

As to addressing the OL and WRs next year, I'm struggling to understand why in three seasons they've drafted a mere one WR, one that hasn't anted up to his draft status, in the first 5 rounds, almost the same for OL-men given a talent-bereft OL. n

 

Next year's gonna be too late.  They should have had the OL around Allen now, he needs it now.  I've harped on that over the past few months.  

 

Allen's issues are going to require "extra time" in the pocket, figure an extra second beyond what the best OLs provide.  He has to work on those fundamentals, which on game days in the NFL really isn't the time to do that, but that's what he's going to have to do.  I'm not sure that the team has set him up to succeed to whatever extent he will succeed.  That's my biggest issue with their approach.  

 

Great, they signed the riskiest QB in last year's draft.  Water under the dam.  But now do everything that you can  to try to help him succeed.  

 

But what do they do?  Defense in round 1.  Great, Ford in round 2.  But a small-school RB that simply doens't have the speed to compete in the NFL in round 3, and also in round 3 another injury-prone player, a TE, that has never caught a TD before.  Sure, they say "IF" he hadn't been injured he'd have been much better in college.  No doubt to some extent, but then why couldn't he score a single TD in 18 games and on 39 receptions when he did play.  Something's not lining up there, eh.  Either way, yet another risky move that I don't think was in Allen's best interests.  They clearly could have done better.  Oliver, no matter what he does, won't help Allen any.  

 

I simply don't see them protecting their QB investment anywhere close to the extent that they should be.  Allen's going to need extra help.  They didn't do that.  Waiting until next year to address those things will be too late.  Even if they hit, it's going to take a half-season, as it always does, and at least the team seems to understand that by their comments on the development of the OL, to gel and develop the necessary chemistry on the OL.  That's why I'm not as big on the Morse acquisition as others are.  I like Morse, think he's good, but the chemistry diminishes if he's out, which will likely be the case.  The fact that he's already hurt and there hasn't even been anything even resembling contact should be highly concerning.  

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Ronin

[thebandit27]

51 minutes ago, YattaOkasan said:

Yup.  I did the analysis and many of the throws to the flats were not that open (in the 0:27 play Shady is pretty clearly being covered).  Couple of situational things too (whos gonna hit a guy in the flat on 3 and 20 or throw to the RB in the middle of the field with < 1 min).  Generally I agree his hero ball needs to stop and that should be correctable for such a raw prospect (the PFF guys contend if he hasnt learned now he never well, but I'm not so sure).  Take away hero ball and have his receivers help not hinder him would go a long way.  

 

Also, a timestamp analysis is good, but leaving out critical context is kind of underwhelming.

 

For example, just take a look at how many of the negative plays were followed by first-down-making plays generated by Allen on the very next play (as well as on the very same set of downs).  Does that excuse poor decision-making? No.  Does it mean he doesn't need to get better? No.  Does it mean that he has shown the ability to make plays that routinely overcome the ones he misses.  Yes.  Will that alone make him a franchise QB? Of course not.

[RoyBatty is alive]

16 hours ago, K-9 said:

 

Josh is a risk taker, pure and simple. He doesn’t give up on plays, sometimes to his detriment. Whereas Dak goes to his checkdowns much more quickly. I’m confident that Allen will start taking more of what the defense is giving him as we saw post injury last season. And when that happens with regularity, watch out. Because he has the arm to take what he wants when defenses adjust to the fact he’s taking what they’re giving him.

 The opposite of Tyrod Taylor

 

Josh Allen iS Ryan Fitzpatrick but with an arm 3x stronger.

[thebandit27]

1 minute ago, Ronin said:

 

This is what you're defending, as what, "not bad," "good," ... you tell me:  

 

18 for 36 (50.0%) for 206 yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs, 1 Lost Fumble, 3 sacks for -14 in a loss to a team with the 25th ranked defense.  

 

You cannot possibly be that bad at reading.  I'm going to give you another chance to read the post you quoted and change your response to it...because this one is brutal.

[K-9]

5 minutes ago, RoyBatty is alive said:

 The opposite of Tyrod Taylor

 

Josh Allen iS Ryan Fitzpatrick but with an arm 3x stronger.

And a release 10x quicker, too. Which is such a critical aspect on so many throws, especially those long outs from the far hash. I shudder to think of Fitz triple hitching on some of those. Triple hitching! It was painful to watch. 

[HappyDays]

10 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

Thanks for the great and rational back-n-forth!!!  

 

I always lay out my thinking and "would have's" clearly here.  Everyone knows, unmistakably, that I don't think that Oliver is going to meet expectations and that I think that Singletary has little more potential than other as a role-playing receiving back.  If we're lucky we'll at a "Darren Sproles."  But if that comes to pass I'll have everyone telling me that "oh sure, you knew" kinda thing when I've said it all along.  It's somewhat comical.  

 

As to their  strategy, all we can do is wait as you say so we'll see.  I do think that we'll get a very clear picture this season however, more than good enough to predict the future as such.  And frankly, circumstances aside, three seasons is a typical evaluation period for newbie GMs and coaches.  Why should it be any different here.  We all know that Beane &  McD's futures hang on Allen tho.  

 

As to Jones, yes, most people were OK with Jones in the 2nd.  That's my point.  I provided all the info for people to see why it wasn't a good pick, just like I did with Spiller, Watkins, and a big number of other players  over the years, and it was scoffed at and ignored.  No worries, didn't bother me, just sayin'.  You get from what you analyze from what you put in.  I typically put in a few dozen hours of detailed analysis  on our key (1st, 2nd, 3rd round picks), more than professsional draft analysts do.  I mean who can spend that kind of time on a few hundred players, it would take years.  

 

I'll also digress on Hughes, but to start, he predates McBeane, so he doesn't factor in to the "strategy," whatever it is other than the fact that he's here.  

 

I don't know how you're measuring 1st or 2nd in the league last season, but he's averaged 5.5 sacks/season over his last five seasons, so not sure that's at the top.  He's also averaged 10 TFLs over the past four seasons, same there.  Last season he ranked in a 10-way tie for TFLs and he ranked in an 11-way tie for 38th in the league in sacks.  I'm not sure that qualifies as #1 or 2.  PFF has him rated as "Good", which is one spot above "above-average" and has only "high-quality" and "elite" above him.  So yeah, he's good, but A, he's not McBeane's acquisition, and he's not great.  22 players like him at his level and we're set tho, so there's that.  

 

And LOL, nothing personal, but you say Murphy will finally be healthy, he's had injury issues throughout his career.  So that may be temporary, hence many of my comments, eh.     To the greater point, the risk that they assumed played out as such.  

 

As to addressing the OL and WRs next year, I'm struggling to understand why in three seasons they've drafted a mere one WR, one that hasn't anted up to his draft status, in the first 5 rounds, almost the same for OL-men given a talent-bereft OL. n

 

Next year's gonna be too late.  They should have had the OL around Allen now, he needs it now.  I've harped on that over the past few months.  

 

Allen's issues are going to require "extra time" in the pocket, figure an extra second beyond what the best OLs provide.  He has to work on those fundamentals, which on game days in the NFL really isn't the time to do that, but that's what he's going to have to do.  I'm not sure that the team has set him up to succeed to whatever extent he will succeed.  That's my biggest issue with their approach.  

 

Great, they signed the riskiest QB in last year's draft.  Water under the dam.  But now do everything that you can  to try to help him succeed.  

 

But what do they do?  Defense in round 1.  Great, Ford in round 2.  But a small-school RB that simply doens't have the speed to compete in the NFL in round 3, and also in round 3 another injury-prone player, a TE, that has never caught a TD before.  Sure, they say "IF" he hadn't been injured he'd have been much better in college.  No doubt to some extent, but then why couldn't he score a single TD in 18 games and on 39 receptions when he did play.  Something's not lining up there, eh.  Either way, yet another risky move that I don't think was in Allen's best interests.  They clearly could have done better.  Oliver, no matter what he does, won't help Allen any.  

 

I simply don't see them protecting their QB investment anywhere close to the extent that they should be.  Allen's going to need extra help.  They didn't do that.  Waiting until next year to address those things will be too late.  Even if they hit, it's going to take a half-season, as it always does, and at least the team seems to understand that by their comments on the development of the OL, to gel and develop the necessary chemistry on the OL.  That's why I'm not as big on the Morse acquisition as others are.  I like Morse, think he's good, but the chemistry diminishes if he's out, which will likely be the case.  The fact that he's already hurt and there hasn't even been anything even resembling contact should be highly concerning.  

 

 

 

 

 

So did the TaskersGhost account get banned, or did you just go back to an old account name for fun? How many accounts do you have here?

[RoyBatty is alive]

1 minute ago, K-9 said:

And a release 10x quicker, too. Which is such a critical aspect on so many throws, especially those long outs from the far hash. I shudder to think of Fitz triple hitching on some of those. Triple hitching! It was painful to watch. 

yeah, i lust looked up Ryans stats, worse than i thought, he didnt average over 60% completion on average while he was here.  I think his arm got tired throuigh the year, that is why he would start out hot but and by game 5-6 really start throwing up some lame ducks.

[Ronin]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

And a release 10x quicker, too. Which is such a critical aspect on so many throws, especially those long outs from the far hash. I shudder to think of Fitz triple hitching on some of those. Triple hitching! It was painful to watch. 

 

Yes, quicker release, but again, amidst the other issues, so what.  

 

All these strengths simply didn't do much for Allen last year as he finished the season as among the bottom ranked passers.  

 

All we can do is try to explain it.  Most here blame it on anyone but Allen.  Again, that's not wise, but hey, everyone's entitled to an opinion regardless of how unsubstantiated and predicated upon false narratives it is.   

 

So we have a QB that can heave the ball out of the stadium, one with a quick release, but one that can't seem to find his way out of a wet paper bag in the short game, particularly in the Red Zone where was not merely poor but absymal when he didn't run it himself.  

 

Which one of those two characteristics do you think will trump the other in the long haul?  

[RoyBatty is alive]

4 minutes ago, Ronin said:

 

... and w/o Taylor's short-game ability, aka Red Zone ability.  

 

Everyone cites Allen's big arm, but what, exactly, did that do for us last season?  Specifically?  

 

Whatever he did in the deep-game, came at the expense of the short-medium game, which is where any QB will make or break their career.  Why more people don't understand that is beyond me.  

 

No, not really.  If as you say, he overcomes all of those bad plays with good ones, how come the loss?  

 

We can go thru the game log if you like to disprove that.  Happy to in fact.  

 

No, I changed names, didn't like that one.   I have one, never been any different.  Contrary to the opinions of others I don't post anywhere else.  

 

That OK with you?  Gonna lose sleep over it?  

 

What?  Feel free to put me on ignore.  No, really, feel free to put me on ignore.  The choice is yours, but it is a choice.   

 

 

Josh Allen had red zone ability bu t it was mostly with his legs but he did get TDs

 

And his big arm do make plays, two plays off the top of my head, notably the play he got hurt in Houston and the long 75 yr bomb to Foster, And that pre-season TD at Carolina, where he threaded the needle, under 5 NFL QBs would even dare that throw.