Article says "Ravens QB Jackson didn't know about new offense for 2019 season

[eball]

35 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Yeah this whole thing implies several negative things from our perspective. I mentioned the wonderlic but mostly because it's been said to be inaccurate so when I read that article where someone with a low score did something dumb it made me wonder how accurate it is. Though I think someone once posted a graph that indicated it wasn't completely useless.

 

The gist of the Wonderlic, with respect to QBs, is that a high score doesn’t necessarily predict success but a low score (i.e., under 15) is a pretty reliable predictor of failure (since the 90s, if memory serves).

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

1 minute ago, eball said:

 

The gist of the Wonderlic, with respect to QBs, is that a high score doesn’t necessarily predict success but a low score (i.e., under 15) is a pretty reliable predictor of failure (since the 90s, if memory serves).

Kelly had a low score IIRC

But yes in general you can want a guy with a good score 

[eball]

Just now, ShadyBillsFan said:

Kelly had a low score IIRC

 

Correct, and many have talked about how much more simplified offenses were and that the position is different now. 

[Warcodered]

23 minutes ago, chris heff said:

1. Greg Roman was already on the staff, coaching in that offense. The article clear stares that “many believed the offense would be substantially the same”.

2. See above since “many” were  under the same impression that the offense would be the same what should he have done? He answered honestly.

3.From the end of the season until the beginning of spring football, according to NFL rules under CBA, they can have no contact.

1. They fired the OC I'm not really sure when that has ever happened when a team does not want to change it's offense. I mean did he think someone took a job where they're responsible for the offense and it's results but is required to run the same offense as the last guy who just got fired?

2. He should of done not that I mean how many times does Josh or McDermott or Beane or any other player here get asked a question and find a way to answer it in a way that doesn't make them, their teammates, or the organization itself look bad. I mean you watch these interviews and plenty of times they respond with a pretty standard response that doesn't really answer the question but moves forward with a positive narrative.

3. "Certainly just understand Josh’s relationship and trust with Jordan, I think that relationship is a good one. It’s important that they work with the right people. We’ll be in touch with Jordan and make sure that we’re synced up there as much as possible in terms of terminology, technique, things that we feel like he needs to work on. Josh already went out there equipped with much of that when he left Buffalo."-Sean McDermott

No body cared I really doubt they couldn't of found a way to let Lamar know.

7 minutes ago, eball said:

 

The gist of the Wonderlic, with respect to QBs, is that a high score doesn’t necessarily predict success but a low score (i.e., under 15) is a pretty reliable predictor of failure (since the 90s, if memory serves).

I'm pretty sure that's what the graph showed that it wasn't as important as it got higher but at certain point there was a significant drop off on the low side.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Warcodered

[YoloinOhio]

5 hours ago, H2o said:

He got the most out of Kaepernick too. Kaep was a better passer than Lamar, which isn't saying much. The Jackson era won't last long in Baltimore. 

Roman is known as a very good run game coordinator. He is not known as a very good offensive coordinator. 

[chris heff]

36 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

1. They fired the OC I'm not really sure when that has ever happened when a team does not want to change it's offense. I mean did he think someone took a job where they're responsible for the offense and it's results but is required to run the same offense as the last guy who just got fired?

2. He should of done not that I mean how many times does Josh or McDermott or Beane or any other player here get asked a question and find a way to answer it in a way that doesn't make them, their teammates, or the organization itself look bad. I mean you watch these interviews and plenty of times they respond with a pretty standard response that doesn't really answer the question but moves forward with a positive narrative.

3. "Certainly just understand Josh’s relationship and trust with Jordan, I think that relationship is a good one. It’s important that they work with the right people. We’ll be in touch with Jordan and make sure that we’re synced up there as much as possible in terms of terminology, technique, things that we feel like he needs to work on. Josh already went out there equipped with much of that when he left Buffalo."-Sean McDermott

No body cared I really doubt they couldn't of found a way to let Lamar know.

I'm pretty sure that's what the graph showed that it wasn't as important as it got higher but at certain point there was a significant drop off on the low side.

Okay, just so I’m clear on this, even though the article that was used to start this topic clearly states that most believed the offense would stay the same, it should have been obvious that it would not. Lamar Jackson could have given a vague answer, or said he already knew about a new offense because the team contacted him. Which would be a violation of a collective bargaining agreement, a contract. Resulting in fines and possibly suspensions. I think I understand.

Edited May 27, 2019 by chris heff

[billsfan1959]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Roman was actually ON the Raven's coaching staff last two years, as "Assistant Head Coach and TE coach" and previously "Senior Offensive Assistant and TE coach"

He has had every experience to work with Lamar Jackson and with people who scouted Lamar Jackson.

 

So if G-Ro is not happy working with Lamar Jackson or a QB like Lamar Jackson, he made a pretty poor career decision taking the Ravens OC gig.

 

When Alex Smith was working with Roman, he was pretty limited as a passer [edit: and when I say 'limited as a passer' I mean, <200 ypg limited.  Like TT without as significant run threat limited].  He didn't "blossom" as a more traditional passer until he moved to KC and Andy Reid started working with him.

The poster I was responding to stated Roman did not want to work with Taylor and that Jackson was of a similar skill set. My response was that it was possible that he wasn't happy in getting Taylor; however, on the other hand, he was fully aware of what he was getting in Jackson when he accepted the OC position (as he was on the staff last year). So, he clearly is comfortable enough working with a QB such as Jackson - and he has done a great job with similar QBs.

 

Smith did blossom under Reid; however, even though Smith averaged just under 200 YPG, he was still pretty productive under Roman: 64% completion, 30 TDs, 10 INTs, and 19-5-1 as a starter. I mentioned him because he was the only example of a "traditional" pocket passer Roman worked with, and he did pretty well with him. 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Okay, just so I’m clear on this, even though the article that was used to start this topic clearly states that most believed the offense would stay the same, it should have been obvious that it would not.

So your saying they were able tell him that it would be the same but not that it's different? I mean the only thing that I think people were expecting was that it would be a pretty run heavy offense and is it not because that'd be pretty "interesting" direction to go in with Jackson as QB. I mean at the point when the team stopped being able to talk with him about this they should of already let him know what direction they were going in I mean why wouldn't they?

 

14 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Lamar Jackson could have given a vague answer, or said he already knew about a new offense because the team contacted him. Which we be a violation of a collective bargaining agreement, a contract. Resulting in fines and possibly suspensions. I think I understand.

Yeah if you were really that worried about getting fined for that he absolutely could of done that and he wouldn't of made himself and the Ravens organization look bad. Also I just literally quoted you something that McDermott said at I think the owners meeting that contradicts this and I have yet to hear anything about a fine/suspension incoming.

[chris heff]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

So your saying they were able tell him that it would be the same but not that it's different? I mean the only thing that I think people were expecting was that it would be a pretty run heavy offense and is it not because that'd be pretty "interesting" direction to go in with Jackson as QB. I mean at the point when the team stopped being able to talk with him about this they should of already let him know what direction they were going in I mean why wouldn't they?

 

Yeah if you were really that worried about getting fined for that he absolutely could of done that and he wouldn't of made himself and the Ravens organization look bad. Also I just literally quoted you something that McDermott said at I think the owners meeting that contradicts this and I have yet to hear anything about a fine/suspension incoming.

You do understand that Jordan Palmer is not on the Bills coaching staff? The can tell him all the terminology they want. There is no mention of anyone from the Bills staff contacting Josh Allen. The Bills did not change coordinators. Are you say that the Ravens should have used a third party to relay new offense and playbook to Jackson?

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, chris heff said:

You do understand that Jordan Palmer is not on the Bills coaching staff? The can tell him all the terminology they want. There is no mention of anyone from the Bills staff contacting Josh Allen. The Bills did not change coordinators. Are you say that the Ravens should have used a third party to relay new offense and playbook to Jackson?

"Certainly just understand Josh’s relationship and trust with Jordan, I think that relationship is a good one. It’s important that they work with the right people. We’ll be in touch with Jordan and make sure that we’re synced up there as much as possible in terms of terminology, technique, things that we feel like he needs to work on. Josh already went out there equipped with much of that when he left Buffalo."-Sean McDermott

 

As to using a 3rd party they could of put up a damn billboard saying they'd have a new offense it's not like that in itself puts them at a disadvantage. I mean there is no reason for Jackson not to know the offense was going to be different. I mean what was it supposed to a surprise for opposing defenses? if so whoops guess Lamar shouldn't of said anything.

[Boca BIlls]

12 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why should we care again?

They are in the AFC, the Bills play them which would be a big win for WC contention.

[chris heff]

32 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

"Certainly just understand Josh’s relationship and trust with Jordan, I think that relationship is a good one. It’s important that they work with the right people. We’ll be in touch with Jordan and make sure that we’re synced up there as much as possible in terms of terminology, technique, things that we feel like he needs to work on. Josh already went out there equipped with much of that when he left Buffalo."-Sean McDermott

 

As to using a 3rd party they could of put up a damn billboard saying they'd have a new offense it's not like that in itself puts them at a disadvantage. I mean there is no reason for Jackson not to know the offense was going to be different. I mean what was it supposed to a surprise for opposing defenses? if so whoops guess Lamar shouldn't of said anything.

The sentence you highlighted is referring to discussions held with Allen before the league season end and him leaving Buffalo to go home to California where he works out with Palmer.

 

Except that the article used to start this topic clearly states that most people thought the offense would stay the same. 

[YoloinOhio]

You don’t say...

 

The idea is to stress the defense in the run game with an athletic quarterback, which should open up things in the passing game. And seeing the direction the NFL’s been going in (spread-out pass-heavy offenses vs. smallish defenses to combat them), the Ravens are very much zigging when so many other teams are zagging. It’s smart, if a little risky with the health of a quarterback who’s not built the way a Cam Newton or Ben Roethlisberger is.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/05/27/new-england-patriots-benjamin-watson-suspension-new-york-jets-general-manager-search

[bills_believer]

This is why you don't have your mother as your agent. A professional agent would have made sure you prepared for the Wonderlic test. A professional agent would have talked to you about your off-season preparation and would be working with you on the way you handled interviews and what you say publicly. I can't help but wonder if some of these problems would be better dealt with if he had a professional agent.

[Augie]

5 minutes ago, bills_believer said:

This is why you don't have your mother as your agent. A professional agent would have made sure you prepared for the Wonderlic test. A professional agent would have talked to you about your off-season preparation and would be working with you on the way you handled interviews and what you say publicly. I can't help but wonder if some of these problems would be better dealt with if he had a professional agent.

 

But then who would fill your lunch box? All angles must be considered! 

[cba fan]

14 hours ago, Aussie Joe said:

Why should we care again?

because he came out in the same highly heralded 2018 draft QB class of Mayfield, Darnold, Allen, Rosen, Jackson.

 

glad I could help....?

Edited May 28, 2019 by cba fan

[GoBills808]

2 hours ago, chris heff said:

Okay, just so I’m clear on this, even though the article that was used to start this topic clearly states that most believed the offense would stay the same, it should have been obvious that it would not. Lamar Jackson could have given a vague answer, or said he already knew about a new offense because the team contacted him. Which would be a violation of a collective bargaining agreement, a contract. Resulting in fines and possibly suspensions. I think I understand.

 

Yo not to jump in or anything but the article in question is NOT referring, when it says ‘many’, to people in the Ravens organization specifically.  At least not that I can tell. Those ‘many’ people could be media, fans, residents of Baltimore, people familiar with Greg Roman, or just a bunch of people the writer got together and asked ‘hey, who here thought the Ravens’ 2019 offense under Roman is going to be basically the same as 2018?’ and if more than two people raised their hands...there’s your ‘many’. 

[Big Turk]

Stupid is as stupid does

[Talley56]

I wonder if maybe the Ravens are working on tanking for Trevor?  At this rate they could have the worst record in 2020.

Edited May 28, 2019 by Talley56

[chris heff]

3 hours ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Yo not to jump in or anything but the article in question is NOT referring, when it says ‘many’, to people in the Ravens organization specifically.  At least not that I can tell. Those ‘many’ people could be media, fans, residents of Baltimore, people familiar with Greg Roman, or just a bunch of people the writer got together and asked ‘hey, who here thought the Ravens’ 2019 offense under Roman is going to be basically the same as 2018?’ and if more than two people raised their hands...there’s your ‘many’. 

Wow how astute. You know what the writer thought and how he reached his conclusion and how “many” people constitute “many”. Is it a burden being that insightful?

Edited May 28, 2019 by chris heff

[GoBills808]

21 minutes ago, chris heff said:

Wow how astute. You know what the writer thought and how he reached his conclusion and how “many” people constitute “many”. Is it a burden being that insightful?

 

Not really. It was laid out pretty clearly in the article. The idea that Jackson not knowing the offense was excusable because 'many' people weren't aware that a Roman offense was likely to be different than a Mornhinweg one, or that he'd somehow have violated the NFLPA by knowing Baltimore was going to have a new offensive system, is tenuous. It doesn't take much insight to see through that argument. I was just commenting on the fact that conflating 'many' with 'many in the Ravens organization' in an attempt to prove Jackson's not an imbecile is the rhetorical equivalent of a 13 on the Wonderlic.

[Richard Noggin]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Fans here really like to count chickens before they hatch. You'd think they learn... just from being Bills fans....

Yeah, but then they'd be as miserable to read as you are.

 

(Most of your points use sound judgement, by the way, being grounded in the observable reality of the past. But what a wet blanket you are in this context.)

[chris heff]

17 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

 

Not really. It was laid out pretty clearly in the article. The idea that Jackson not knowing the offense was excusable because 'many' people weren't aware that a Roman offense was likely to be different than a Mornhinweg one, or that he'd somehow have violated the NFLPA by knowing Baltimore was going to have a new offensive system, is tenuous. It doesn't take much insight to see through that argument. I was just commenting on the fact that conflating 'many' with 'many in the Ravens organization' in an attempt to prove Jackson's not an imbecile is the rhetorical equivalent of a 13 on the Wonderlic.

So Jackson is now an imbecile, and apparently so am I. Since you decided to make this personal. I’d like to enlighten you. I had a not so distinguished high school career at St. Joe’s, I took the SATs four times, to get a score that would at least be marginally acceptable. I was rejected by multiple universities and finally accepted to a marginal college probably because one of my brothers graduated from there. I don’t think my GPA was ever any better than 2.0. I have however built two distinctly different businesses. I’ve lived in NYC, Charleston SC. Venice Beach CA. the Hamptons and now for a number of years in Delray Beach FL. I’m writing this while sitting in a million dollar condominium a block from one of the nicest beaches in this country. My current business pays me whether I’m there or not. So if my rhetoric scores me a thirteen I’ll take it.

[Ol Dirty B]

4 minutes ago, chris heff said:

So Jackson is now an imbecile, and apparently so am I. Since you decided to make this personal. I’d like to enlighten you. I had a not so distinguished high school career at St. Joe’s, I took the SATs four times, to get a score that would at least be marginally acceptable. I was rejected by multiple universities and finally accepted to a marginal college probably because one of my brothers graduated from there. I don’t think my GPA was ever any better than 2.0. I have however built two distinctly different businesses. I’ve lived in NYC, Charleston SC. Venice Beach CA. the Hamptons and now for a number of years in Delray Beach FL. I’m writing this while sitting in a million dollar condominium a block from one of the nicest beaches in this country. My current business pays me whether I’m there or not. So if my rhetoric scores me a thirteen I’ll take it.

 

I didn't agree with the other poster, but you seem extremely sensitive. I mean, so much wtf? In that post I'm not even going to start.

[chris heff]

18 minutes ago, Ol Dirty B said:

 

I didn't agree with the other poster, but you seem extremely sensitive. I mean, so much wtf? In that post I'm not even going to start.

He questioned my intelligence, I don’t like being called stupid, do you? Multiple posts have questioned intelligence based on standardized testing. I was making a point. I know really successful people that went to all the right schools that I’m sure did well on all the right tests. I also know people that went to all the right schools and probably did well on all the right tests that are a mess. I’ve worked with a lot of people, schools and tests rarely give insight into who will succeed. What’s  been going on over these six pages is people judging a young man , who has certainly worked very hard to get to where he is. The narrative is adjusted to reach the conclusion that he is stupid. Why do you think that is? What is it about him that would create such vitriol? As to my sensitivity you are right I’m sensitive to prejudice.

[Ol Dirty B]

1 hour ago, chris heff said:

He questioned my intelligence, I don’t like being called stupid, do you? Multiple posts have questioned intelligence based on standardized testing. I was making a point. I know really successful people that went to all the right schools that I’m sure did well on all the right tests. I also know people that went to all the right schools and probably did well on all the right tests that are a mess. I’ve worked with a lot of people, schools and tests rarely give insight into who will succeed. What’s  been going on over these six pages is people judging a young man , who has certainly worked very hard to get to where he is. The narrative is adjusted to reach the conclusion that he is stupid. Why do you think that is? What is it about him that would create such vitriol? As to my sensitivity you are right I’m sensitive to prejudice.

 

You're making this into something that it isn't. No one cares about your million dollar condo right by one of the best beaches in America. Or that you get paid whether you show up for work or not.  

 

That post and what you're doubling down on is really not a good look. 

 

I'm gonna just say, not that it matters, because this board really doesn't matter in terms of real life, but just stop. 

 

And I actually agree with your point on Lamar Jackson but you're taking this into another area. 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Ol Dirty B

[fansince88]

18 hours ago, Elite Poster said:

 

They gushed over him so much he was the 5th QB taken in that draft.

 

I really don't understand the point of that comment haha.

 

I like Allen WAYYYY more than Lamar as a QB prospect to this point, but if you take a look at their stats and how they played in game, they were not very far off. Allen played in twice as many games and their stat avgs are prettttty similar. 

 

QB 1: 171 yards / game passing, 3.5% TD % and 58% completion

QB 2: 172 yards / game passing, 2.8% TD % and 52% completion 

 

This board of football minds has determined one is the next big passer and one is a RB who can't throw the ball. This is why people laugh at our fan base. 

When I said the NFL gushed over him I meant after he took over as the starter. He was not good. A more Elite Poster would have understood my point more.

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

 

Duh ... whats the new scheme? 

[BritBill]

15 hours ago, Ridgewaycynic2013 said:

Ok...so his future as a politician after football isn’t so bright...

 

His Wonderlic score all of a sudden becomes too high for a profession.

[BearNorth]

Just saw this re: one of our newer players and the Wonderlic

 

RB - Frank Gore: 6 Wonderlic score

Did Frank Gore’s wonderlic test play a role in his draft stock? The San Francisco 49ers took the Pro Bowl running back with the 65th overall pick in the third round of the 2005 draft. Gore has rushed for 14,026 yards and 77 touchdowns so far in his career.

 

 

[YoloinOhio]

15 minutes ago, BearNorth said:

Just saw this re: one of our newer players and the Wonderlic

 

RB - Frank Gore: 6 Wonderlic score

Did Frank Gore’s wonderlic test play a role in his draft stock? The San Francisco 49ers took the Pro Bowl running back with the 65th overall pick in the third round of the 2005 draft. Gore has rushed for 14,026 yards and 77 touchdowns so far in his career.

 

 

Not as big of a deal for RBs

[Nanker]

Me thinks there’s a lot of things that Mr. Jackson doesn’t know about. 

[formerlyofCtown]

On 5/27/2019 at 7:58 AM, atlbillsfan1975 said:

Baltimore made the post season last year. The Ravens struggling means another spot opens up. Having a quarterback not grasp a new system or play poorly can lead to a team missing the playoffs. 

 

I agree that after hearing Jackson speak and the Wonderlic scores, I was skeptical about his ability to read a defense and comprehend a play book. This article does nothing to make those apprehensions go away. 

Apparently it is his ability to read in general that now must be questioned.?

[formerlyofCtown]

16 hours ago, chris heff said:

You do understand that Jordan Palmer is not on the Bills coaching staff? The can tell him all the terminology they want. There is no mention of anyone from the Bills staff contacting Josh Allen. The Bills did not change coordinators. Are you say that the Ravens should have used a third party to relay new offense and playbook to Jackson?

They could use that reporter that delivers playbooks for the Patriots.  He did a good job delivering Atlantas to Bill Belicheat.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

Not as big of a deal for RBs

 

Not at all a big deal for a lot of positions honestly.  From evaluating the NFL talent you can look at it and say - how many RBs/WRs/CBs etc. just straight up blow this off because they know it has 0 effect on them being drafted.  So that might skew data somewhat.  I don't think its super important for QBs either, but a 13 is a pretty terrible score.  You'd like to be somewhere near average at least.  Can't be a dumb QB in this league anymore.  

1 hour ago, formerlyofCtown said:

Apparently it is his ability to read in general that now must be questioned.?

 

He's hard to understand honestly

[GoBills808]

11 hours ago, chris heff said:

So Jackson is now an imbecile, and apparently so am I. Since you decided to make this personal. I’d like to enlighten you. I had a not so distinguished high school career at St. Joe’s, I took the SATs four times, to get a score that would at least be marginally acceptable. I was rejected by multiple universities and finally accepted to a marginal college probably because one of my brothers graduated from there. I don’t think my GPA was ever any better than 2.0. I have however built two distinctly different businesses. I’ve lived in NYC, Charleston SC. Venice Beach CA. the Hamptons and now for a number of years in Delray Beach FL. I’m writing this while sitting in a million dollar condominium a block from one of the nicest beaches in this country. My current business pays me whether I’m there or not. So if my rhetoric scores me a thirteen I’ll take it.

 

Yeah...I never said I thought he was an imbecile. Congrats on the rest. 

[YoloinOhio]

The more I think about this the more bizarre it becomes. How can the starting QB not know that they were bringing in a new Offense? Was he not in the facility at all or in touch with the team since the end of the season? This is the QB ffs. It has nothing to do with restrictions on coach-player communication. They just aren’t allowed to “talk football.” The playbook would likely be sitting in his locker - requires no illegal phone calls. It’s almost like he was either MIA and they couldn’t get ahold of him, or a big time fail from the team to prepare the QB. The last thing you want is him trying to think too much out there. 

It’s so ridiculous it makes me wonder if he was told to say this because they did actually talk a lot and they’ve been in trouble before for breaking the CBA rules. 

[Victory Formation]

There's three franchise guys: 1. Mayfield 2. Allen 3. Darnold. In that order. No faith in the rest.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

The more I think about this the more bizarre it becomes. How can the starting QB not know that they were bringing in a new Offense? Was he not in the facility at all or in touch with the team since the end of the season? This is the QB ffs. It has nothing to do with restrictions on coach-player communication. They just aren’t allowed to “talk football.” The playbook would likely be sitting in his locker - requires no illegal phone calls. It’s almost like he was either MIA and they couldn’t get ahold of him, or a big time fail from the team to prepare the QB. The last thing you want is him trying to think too much out there. 

It’s so ridiculous it makes me wonder if he was told to say this because they did actually talk a lot and they’ve been in trouble before for breaking the CBA rules. 

 

I mean... it happened in January that they promoted Roman.  How did you not like... notice? I get like not reading the news daily - but one would think they cleared it with him when they hired him right?

[Patrick Duffy]

11 hours ago, chris heff said:

So Jackson is now an imbecile, and apparently so am I. Since you decided to make this personal. I’d like to enlighten you. I had a not so distinguished high school career at St. Joe’s, I took the SATs four times, to get a score that would at least be marginally acceptable. I was rejected by multiple universities and finally accepted to a marginal college probably because one of my brothers graduated from there. I don’t think my GPA was ever any better than 2.0.I have however built two distinctly different businesses. I’ve lived in NYC, Charleston SC. Venice Beach CA. the Hamptons and now for a number of years in Delray Beach FL. I’m writing this while sitting in a million dollar condominium a block from one of the nicest beaches in this country. My current business pays me whether I’m there or not. So if my rhetoric scores me a thirteen I’ll take it.

 

Cool, now please tell us how many times you have " made it rain".     Cool brah, super cool.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by Patrick_Duffy