WideNine Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said: It would be great to just have a player play the position we drafted him for. Seems there’s always talk about moving them around. This is one of those situations where it was so obvious that Houston was not using a player the right way. Why take a player whose strength is speed, powerful lower body and burst, can flip his hips like a corner, all the while keeping his pads low then line him up nose to nose with the opposing teams center? That coaching staff seemed determined to effectively negate his speed advantage, and set things up so it was easier for opposing teams to bracket Oliver away from the play with a double-team from either Guard. Ol' Wade would have had a thing or two to say to those Houston defensive coaches and how inflexibly locked they were in their alignment scheme. "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of." - Wade Phillips 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: I worry about it yes. Hey, it could all prove to be unfounded worry, but it is something that I'm concerned about wrt Oliver. don't worry, it WILL be unfounded worry on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Joshin' Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: Aaron Donald shows as 6 foot 1 inch 285 pounds How is Oliver "even more undersized" then Aaron? Oliver's Combine numbers show him as 6 foot 1 287 pounds Please stop using facts, it confuses the people who just read headlines. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 31 minutes ago, TigerJ said: Oliver bulked up for the combine. It is thought that he played last season in the mid 270s. When he had his pro day, he had already lost several pounds from his combine weight. I'm not anti-Oliver, but it's doubtful he's going to play at 285 or better. So we dont think Donald bulked up for the combine? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBill Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, 1ManRaid said: Remember when we were widely criticized for moving the "undersized" Kyle Williams to nose tackle for a while? He only became a top 3 rated NT for the snaps he was there because of his ABILITY and motor. Pfft, I bet he only blows through triple teams, like, half the time. Well, then to your point he is only 50% effective. It would be best to cut him now and spare us the misery of watching him play. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Barbarian Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, IgotBILLStopay said: One team ahead of us in the draft - another behind us. https://deadspin.com/adam-gase-and-the-jets-have-had-a-crazy-ass-week-1834849656 https://thefalconswire.usatoday.com/2019/05/23/falcons-free-agency-gerald-mccoy-interest/ I dont believe it. Not for a Minute. You are under the Gun .... But .. you also have this https://www.yardbarker.com/nfl/articles/the_nfl_draft_prospects_most_likely_to_bust/s1_13132_28896110 the 3 doesn't play Nose, dumb writer. whats with all the pining and lusting ?? Its a little creepy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1ManRaid Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 19 minutes ago, BuffaloBill said: Well, then to your point he is only 50% effective. It would be best to cut him now and spare us the misery of watching him play. Yeah you know the rule here, if he isn't 100% dominant 100% of the time, he's a bust and that salary "could be better spent elsewhere". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Patrick_Duffy said: Damn, he's getting held and triple teamed and still manages to get good pressure. But he’s so tiny!!! ? I think the fear may be that he added weight for the combine, but he still put up insane quickness numbers. Like INSANE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VW82 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) I remain terrified of this pick, and expect Oliver to have a rough transition to the NFL much like Edmunds did at times. I also thought Edmunds might have to change positions and those guys scare me. OTOH in two years it’s possible we have the best 3T/MLB combo in the NFL. I’d be more skeptical if it wasn’t McBeane taking/developing them. Edited May 24, 2019 by VW82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, aristocrat said: dont you think donald bulked up as well? most guys do Probably. More guys do than don't. Clearly though, it's easier for some than others. The only reason I bring the issue up is that comments have been made by various individuals, including Ed Oliver's college coach questioning Oliver's ability to maintain a weight over 280. His game is more about quickness than leverage. He's so fast at the snap that offensive linemen find themselves struggling to regain position from the get go. He demonstrated good strength though at the combine. The quickness off the snap is the main reason I'm optimistic about his potential in the Bills' defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABILLBACKER Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, thebandit27 said: I think it's a legitimate question to ask. I also think that, as a 21-year old, he should have no problem adding a good 10-12 lbs over the next 18 months. As a rookie, he may suffer a bit if he's asked to play 60 snaps/game wtihout the additional bulk. I don't want him over 295. His quickness is his strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: That third one is my worry. NFL guards are just going to decimate the guy. He's REALLY light. they are going to reduce him by ten per cent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, tcampbell104 said: they are going to reduce him by ten per cent? lookit mister big-brains here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, Joe in Winslow said: lookit mister big-brains here. look it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, tcampbell104 said: look it? what? now you're a pedant? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tcampbell104 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Joe in Winslow said: what? now you're a pedant? just busting your balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Mark Vader said: They say that, because Aaron Donald has proven himself in the NFL. Well that certainly is a arguement that cannot be countered seeing as how Oliver has not played a down in the NFL yet. I am going to say that a extremely productive DT playing out of position in college that is drafted in a year where the DL was supposed to be the strong point of the draft...the chances are pretty good that Oliver might be a pretty good player. You could say that Quinnen Williams played on a stacked Alabama line.......and comes into the NFL and struggles just as easily Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris heff Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, John from Riverside said: Aaron Donald shows as 6 foot 1 inch 285 pounds How is Oliver "even more undersized" then Aaron? Oliver's Combine numbers show him as 6 foot 1 287 pounds Kyle was 6’ 1” 303 pounds, when you’re up around 300 pounds does 16 pounds make that much difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, chris heff said: Kyle was 6’ 1” 303 pounds, when you’re up around 300 pounds does 16 pounds make that much difference? I certainly dont think so 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TigerJ Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 45 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said: I don't want him over 295. His quickness is his strength. You're probably right, and I think his combine weight is probably his ceiling. That said, this is a very individualized issue. Some players can carry more weight without it affecting quickness. Some can't. You never really know without doing some experimenting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebandit27 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 6 minutes ago, TigerJ said: You're probably right, and I think his combine weight is probably his ceiling. That said, this is a very individualized issue. Some players can carry more weight without it affecting quickness. Some can't. You never really know without doing some experimenting. It's probably his ceiling weight right now, but remember, he's 21 years old. He's almost certainly going to fill out as he matures, and don't discount the difference between NFL strength and conditioning and college. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Vader Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 49 minutes ago, John from Riverside said: Well that certainly is a arguement that cannot be countered seeing as how Oliver has not played a down in the NFL yet. I am going to say that a extremely productive DT playing out of position in college that is drafted in a year where the DL was supposed to be the strong point of the draft...the chances are pretty good that Oliver might be a pretty good player. You could say that Quinnen Williams played on a stacked Alabama line.......and comes into the NFL and struggles just as easily Both of your points are true about Oliver & Williams. Nobody knows exactly how things will work out with Oliver. Personally, I think he has the talent to be a very good player in the NFL, and I have confidence in our coaching staff that they will use him in a manner where he will be most effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerome007 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 What helps him is in today's NFL there is a LOT of rotation at the D line. Being "light" will hurt him at times... and painfully hurt at times too. No sugar coating it. And pushing against bigger guys is tiring. But with his quickness, getting from age 21 to 25, rotation, he could be a real good one. I kind of like this thread. I too want him to be a "95% Aaron Donald" and sure hope that pans out, but I 'm kind of baffled at how so many people anoint him already as an improvement over a proven Pro Bowler. Yes Kyle was on a big decline but let the rookie prove himself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WideNine Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, John from Riverside said: I certainly dont think so Size is not everything for those athletes that have elite speed, power, and leverage (and perhaps PEDS). Granted he played mostly at end, but they would move him around and I remember being floored watching a 265 lb Aldon Smith when he came into the league. When he 1st came into the league and at times the 49ers would move him inside or have him twist inside on a stunt and he would still forklift and bullrush o-linemen where he was giving up 40-50 lbs. Of course Aldon was bat-$hit crazy and maybe there were PEDS involved because he just could not stop carrying guns, assaulting folks with knives, multiple DUI's, airport bomb threats, biting his fiancee then violating a restraining order and falsely imprisoning her.....yada yada. Just doing the usual things that normal folk do. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 ...Cowgirls had Ed "Too Tall" Jones....we have Ed "Too Small" Oliver....think we'll be just fine as they were......this kid is the real deal IMO....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 4 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: That third one is my worry. NFL guards are just going to decimate the guy. He's REALLY light. But he's got talent you can teach. You can, however, bulk up a guy, and teach him technique. Ultimately, it's going to come down to the coaches using him right, either preparing him off the field for his position, or preparing the game plan on the field for his abilities. It's pretty certain, though, that he's not another Maybin. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 Just now, DC Tom said: It's pretty certain, though, that he's not another Maybin. For that, I am grateful. And I'm a PSU guy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 3 hours ago, WideNine said: "I don't understand the people that say, 'Hey, this is our scheme and that guy can't play in it,' a guy that can play, and is a good player, but, 'He can't play in our scheme.' To me, there's something wrong with your scheme," Phillips said. "You adapt the scheme to what the players can do, not what you can think of." - Wade Phillips Like in Buffalo, when head the linebacking corps decimated one week, and in five days switched the defensive scheme from a 3-4 to a 4-3 to compensate, and steam-rolled the Dolphins. This is why Wade is the best DC ever. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Linen Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 2 hours ago, TigerJ said: Probably. More guys do than don't. Clearly though, it's easier for some than others. The only reason I bring the issue up is that comments have been made by various individuals, including Ed Oliver's college coach questioning Oliver's ability to maintain a weight over 280. His game is more about quickness than leverage. He's so fast at the snap that offensive linemen find themselves struggling to regain position from the get go. He demonstrated good strength though at the combine. The quickness off the snap is the main reason I'm optimistic about his potential in the Bills' defense. I disagree. His game is about quickness and leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldTimeAFLGuy Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 1 hour ago, DC Tom said: Like in Buffalo, when head the linebacking corps decimated one week, and in five days switched the defensive scheme from a 3-4 to a 4-3 to compensate, and steam-rolled the Dolphins. This is why Wade is the best DC ever. ....damn right....and STILL going strong at 71.....him and Dick LeBeau (80+) defy all odds.....maybe not HC material, but find better at defenses and I'll go back under my rock....good Lord don't tell me Blowhard Buddy.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBillsFanSince1973 Posted May 24, 2019 Share Posted May 24, 2019 (edited) 5 things to know about Buffalo Bills rookie Ed Oliver Many among Bills Mafia were surprised that Ed Oliver, a player many considered to be a top-five pick, fell to the team at No. 9 overall. After dominating AAC competition at the University of Houston for three seasons and ranking as their best recruit ever as a five-star, the defensive lineman found himself in Western New York, on a team that will use his services well. 1. He’s raw, but he should make an impact day-one At this point, we know Oliver is an athletic marvel, and he was used correctly at college, yet remained productive. But, he’s raw. He needs to learn how to disengage blocks on a more timely fashion, and his only pass-rushing move appears to be a bull-rush. However, that doesn’t mean he won’t be effective early on. Oliver should make an impact for the Bills as an interior run-stuffer immediately. His unusual combination of power, quickness, and flexibility will make him a match up nightmare for offensive guards and tackles alike. Frankly, his run-stuffing should be able to translate well immediately. Edited May 24, 2019 by DaBillsFanSince1973 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 7 hours ago, Joe in Winslow said: AAC =/= NFL. Know what I mean? NFL players come from non power conferences too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Mark Vader said: Both of your points are true about Oliver & Williams. Nobody knows exactly how things will work out with Oliver. Personally, I think he has the talent to be a very good player in the NFL, and I have confidence in our coaching staff that they will use him in a manner where he will be most effective. I can see an argument that they were the two best players in the draft. (I know Bosa and other have huge upside, but I like the idea of interior pressure as we go to a shorter, precision passing game.) Williams is bigger, but no telling who will have the better career. Oliver has that explosion. I’m just excited to see some football!!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hemma Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I don’t think anyone is concerned about his ability to bring pressure. He’ll be tested pretty early against the run: week 2 - Giants week 4 - Patriots week 5 - Titans Be surprised if they don’t go right at him. ....... just getting an early start on hating the Patriots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 Oliver will be everything we wanted Dareus to be , plus some. Kid is a straight beast. He's going to make an immediate impact imo 47 minutes ago, Augie said: I can see an argument that they were the two best players in the draft. (I know Bosa and other have huge upside, but I like the idea of interior pressure as we go to a shorter, precision passing game.) Williams is bigger, but no telling who will have the better career. Oliver has that explosion. I’m just excited to see some football!!! Oliver is going to be playing a role where he has more opportunities than Williams to get sacks and TFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Oliver will be everything we wanted Dareus to be , plus some. Kid is a straight beast. He's going to make an immediate impact imo Oliver is going to be playing a role where he has more opportunities than Williams to get sacks and TFL I agree, but he has to prove he can handle the role if they make him a bullseye and just run right at him. I think with his quickness he will (hopefully) be able to disrupt what goes right at him, because I think he’ll chase down a LOT of what goes away from him. (But I’m the optimistic type! ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyBills Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 2 minutes ago, Augie said: I agree, but he has to prove he can handle the role if they make him a bullseye and just run right at him. I think with his quickness he will (hopefully) be able to disrupt what goes right at him, because I think he’ll chase down a LOT of what goes away from him. (But I’m the optimistic type! ?) Yeah he'll def be tested n I just think he's a natural and just the way he dominated college OL at nose tackle , I expect big things in this scheme.. Also feel Harrison Phillips is the real deal . He'll make a big jump.. We'll have a nasty DT rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 (edited) Ed Oliver is the prototypical DT for the new NFL. It’s nice to see the Bills being progressive for once. It would not surprise me at all if he created QB pressure similar to Donald and Watt. Edited May 25, 2019 by billspro 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meh Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 I don't see what all the fuss is over EO's weight. People though Aaron Maybin was too light too and just look at his dominance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
26TrapDraw Posted May 25, 2019 Share Posted May 25, 2019 ( @ Y @ ) ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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