Would you rather explore Julio Jones or Clowney in the trade market?

[Kirby Jackson]

Also, I know it want the question but AJ Green (despite what they say) feels like the most available to me. He’s 30 or 31, coming off an injury, on a team that needs to hit the reset button, in a contract year. He feels like a guy that COULD be hadn’t for a 2nd and an extension. 

[Rocket94]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

Julio for me. I like Clowney a lot and think that he could turn this defense into an elite unit, now and moving forward. With that being said, the biggest current need on the roster is a #1 WR. Add to that with the fact that you are trying to develop your, young, franchise QB. Is there ANY better way to do that than to give him a top 3 player at the position? Julio is a complete (and dominant) player. Nothing will help the Bills more than that.

You really think, at this point, that a pass rushing DE is a bigger need than a number 1 WR? I don’t even think it’s close. The Bills have 2-3 DEs (depending on where you count Zo) better than our best WR and that doesn’t even account for the fact that our DT’s will get pressure. We can rush from the edge with or without Clowney. We don’t have guys altering coverage or beating their man without Julio. 

 

Man argument can certainly be made for Clowney (age, cost, etc...) but it’s a REALLY tough argument to say he fills a bigger need on this roster as of today.

Clowney all the way. He is much younger and he fills a much bigger need. He may be Mcdermott's "Prototype" at the position. Yes, I believe we need a DE first. Why do you think we drafted Cody Ford. Build a strong line first and then get your WR. The Bills have already improved offensively.  Beane may still be looking for a veteran wideout. Next years class of Wr's seems much better. 

[Kirby Jackson]

11 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Clowney all the way. He is much younger and he fills a much bigger need. He may be Mcdermott's "Prototype" at the position. Yes, I believe we need a DE first. Why do you think we drafted Cody Ford. Build a strong line first and then get your WR. The Bills have already improved offensively.  Beane may still be looking for a veteran wideout. Next years class of Wr's seems much better. 

Next year’s WR class is better. That doesn’t change the fact that our edge guys > than our WR. Additionally, we are trying to develop our franchise QB (which is probably still the most important aspect of this season). Add to that we had the number 2 defense last year with the same guys and one of the worst passing attacks in the league and the “need” argument is a tough one. I’ll buy prototype and/or age but in no way can you convince me that an Edge guy is a bigger need than a number 1 WR on this team, at this point. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by Kirby Jackson

[DrDawkinstein]

Playing along, I'd focus on Julio if we could get him right now. DL seems to be pretty set, or at least has enough capable bodies. Julio would be a game-changing addition to the Offense.

[Rocket94]

Our Defensive ends have been tested and they are not working. Even with the addition of Oliver, I see only a marginal improvement in their play. How many dropped balls and penalties killed drives last year? What is wrong with John Brown and Robert Foster? I am sure Beane is looking for another veteran. The Bills need to strengthen the lines first...thats where it starts. As far as the Number 2 defense last year, it was misleading and statistical. That was no number 2 defense last year giving up huge chunks of yards and long drives.

8 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Playing along, I'd focus on Julio if we could get him right now. DL seems to be pretty set, or at least has enough capable bodies. Julio would be a game-changing addition to the Offense.

See that's just it: "Capable" we need more than capable players on defense. Capable meaning a continual 8-8 and 9-7 record.

[Coach Tuesday]

I don't see either guy getting traded, so it's moot (or "mute," as Alphadog would say).

 

That said - Xavier Rhodes is reportedly available and he's 1 year removed from being the best corner in football - I'd throw a 2nd to the Vikes for him...

[DrDawkinstein]

6 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

 

See that's just it: "Capable" we need more than capable players on defense. Capable meaning a continual 8-8 and 9-7 record.

 

I think Hughes, Oliver, Star, and both Phillips are more than capable, and when adding in even the average guys of Lawson and Murphy, are certainly better than our WR corp.

 

If we have to choose just one group to add to, being the premise of this thread, I'm going WR.

[Rocket94]

1 minute ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I think Hughes, Oliver, Star, and both Phillips are more than capable, and when adding in even the average guys of Lawson and Murphy, are certainly better than our WR corp.

 

If we have to choose just one group to add to, being the premise of this thread, I'm going WR.

I like Hughes and I am not talking about him. We need someone to compliment him. Murphy, Lawson and the rest of the crew are not the answer and they have proven it. Go ahead and rationalize how they are going to improve, or some divine force is going to will them to the promised land. We need another pro bowl/impact DE.

[atlbillsfan1975]

2 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

If the Falcons struggle this season (I think they might) then I think Julio could be available for trade next offseason. I think the Falcons would likely try a mini reset and Julio at 31 with one year left on his deal might fetch them a high pick to help that reset. If Ridley has a good season they might think Jones is expendable. If at that point an elite receiver seems to be the missing piece to put Buffalo over the top then I'd have interest depending on where we are drafting and who might come out that could be an alternative solution.

We can agree to disagree. Blank will fire the coaches and GM before he trades Julio. If there is a bad year, anything less than the Conference Championship game will be seen as a disappointment, look for changes with staff. 

[DrDawkinstein]

11 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

I like Hughes and I am not talking about him. We need someone to compliment him. Murphy, Lawson and the rest of the crew are not the answer and they have proven it. Go ahead and rationalize how they are going to improve, or some divine force is going to will them to the promised land. We need another pro bowl/impact DE.

 

I dont think we are all set at DL by any means. Of course the unit could be improved. But I'm simply playing along with the premise of the thread. If I had to choose to address just one unit between WR and DL today, I'd choose WR.

 

edit: the good news is we're still talking to Ansah, apparently. So there is still decent DE talent that can be brought in as FA. There is no such talent left in the WR FA market, so for this thread, I'm trading for Julio and signing Ansah.

Edited May 1, 2019 by DrDawkinstein

[Rocket94]

6 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I dont think we are all set at DL by any means. Of course the unit could be improved. But I'm simply playing along with the premise of the thread. If I had to choose to address just one unit between WR and DL today, I'd choose WR.

Ok...I agree. We already know that Beane & Co are exploring both areas. I have no doubt that Josh Allen will eventually have better weapons. I just cannot believe in that DL as a whole.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Rocket94

[GunnerBill]

14 minutes ago, atlbillsfan1975 said:

We can agree to disagree. Blank will fire the coaches and GM before he trades Julio. If there is a bad year, anything less than the Conference Championship game will be seen as a disappointment, look for changes with staff. 

 

Oh I agree the Head coach will be out. Less sure about the GMs. Blank has been very committed to the Dimitroff and Pioli duo. I think he is very tight with them. Do think anything less than the playoffs and Quinn will be out.

[Yav]

5 hours ago, njbuff said:

The Bills can't get both, so which long shot would you prefer..............

 

Clownery or Julio?

Julio (not that he will be traded or the Bills would, but easy pick).

Clowney is a clown, IMO he's never lived up to the hype and seems to be hurt a lot. 

[GunnerBill]

7 minutes ago, Yav said:

Julio (not that he will be traded or the Bills would, but easy pick).

Clowney is a clown, IMO he's never lived up to the hype and seems to be hurt a lot. 

 

He had a bad injury early but since then he has missed 3 games in 3 seasons. And the people who say he hasn't lived up to the hype need to watch the tape. The guy is a beast. His pass rush numbers on the bare face don't wow but that is about how he was used as much as anything. Advanced numbers show he is productive when he does rush. And he can stop the run, and he can cover... dude is an all round talent. Not desperate to throw a 1st round pick at him... but if he is a FA next year I'd definitely pursue him.

[Happy]

Ultimately, neither.

If I had to pick one, Julio Jones.  I think Clowney is all hype and he will not be able to live up to a big contract.

[billsfan1959]

Jones would be the wiser choice. An immediate help to Allen this year and a mentor next year to the future #1 we take in the draft...

[Rocket94]

Jones would be nice if he were the final piece missing and the defense was improved. The Bills are still a year or two away from seriously contending.

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Neither

[BillsFan17]

Clowney and it's not even close 

[thebandit27]

24 minutes ago, Rocket94 said:

Jones would be nice if he were the final piece missing and the defense was improved. The Bills are still a year or two away from seriously contending.

 

The Bills are only as far away from contending as they are from having a true, established franchise QB.

 

Ask yourself: what path is the fastest to achieving that goal? 

[RyanC883]

Clowney.   Harder to find an edge rusher.  Plus, a disruptive top-end edge is better than a top-end WR in terms of overall impact to team performance.  

 

 

[Knicks&Bills]

Julio and it’s not at all close. He’s a top three receiver. Clooney has been kind of a bust

[dave mcbride]

6 minutes ago, Knicks&Bills said:

Julio and it’s not at all close. He’s a top three receiver. Clooney has been kind of a bust

?? Clowney has finished in the top 10 in tackles for loss three years in a row, and was second in the NFL in 2017 with 21. He's a dominant player.

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He had a bad injury early but since then he has missed 3 games in 3 seasons. And the people who say he hasn't lived up to the hype need to watch the tape. The guy is a beast. His pass rush numbers on the bare face don't wow but that is about how he was used as much as anything. Advanced numbers show he is productive when he does rush. And he can stop the run, and he can cover... dude is an all round talent. Not desperate to throw a 1st round pick at him... but if he is a FA next year I'd definitely pursue him.

GB - look up his TFL numbers. They are consistently impressive.  He's an incredible run defender and line wrecker.

[HOUSE]

Clowney is a bit of a risk. Will cost you 15 mil per season. Never had 10 sacks in one season and injuries are a problem.

Working out a fair deal is the biggest issue.

 

[Rocket94]

9 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

Clowney is a bit of a risk. Will cost you 15 mil per season. Never had 10 sacks in one season and injuries are a problem.

Working out a fair deal is the biggest issue.

 

Right on. As much as I like "someone" like him, he is still not the answer...he never lived up to hype.

[njbuff]

Wow.

 

Lots of different opinions in here.

 

Honestly, the Bills aren’t getting either, but it’s a fun debate.

 

Something is going to have to break open, aka Mack for the Bills to be in on something.

[foreboding]

Clowney seems to not have a consistent motor, so I would not give up any draft picks. 

Julio is, well Julio, too old to give up round 1 picks...but maybe... like 2nd rounder or later. Really you could sure take a chance on Julio.

[LyndonvilleBill]

Neither. But if forced to pick one... Clowney. Younger and much better than he is being credited for here..... I think our WR's will be ok this year. Plenty to select the best group from. Need someone opposite of Jerry that is a disrupter. Go for WR after cuts or next years draft....

[Yav]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

He had a bad injury early but since then he has missed 3 games in 3 seasons. And the people who say he hasn't lived up to the hype need to watch the tape. The guy is a beast. His pass rush numbers on the bare face don't wow but that is about how he was used as much as anything. Advanced numbers show he is productive when he does rush. And he can stop the run, and he can cover... dude is an all round talent. Not desperate to throw a 1st round pick at him... but if he is a FA next year I'd definitely pursue him.

Again, it's my opinion. I don't really watch much of the Texans unless it's playoff time. I'm not sure I'd like the Bills to throw big money at him nor do I think they should throw a high draft pick for him. 

[thebandit27]

44 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

?? Clowney has finished in the top 10 in tackles for loss three years in a row, and was second in the NFL in 2017 with 21. He's a dominant player.

GB - look up his TFL numbers. They are consistently impressive.  He's an incredible run defender and line wrecker.

 

I can't believe the number of people that are saying that Clowney hasn't lived up to the hype.  Since 2017, he's been nothing short of spectacular. Clowney actually ranks 2nd in the NFL in TFLs with 37 over the last 2 seasons behind Aaron Donald (44).

 

I know he hasn't lead the league in sacks, but the fact that he's been as productive in every other phase of the defensive game, combined with the fact that he's still put up solid sack production, is pretty amazing IMO.

[dave mcbride]

9 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I can't believe the number of people that are saying that Clowney hasn't lived up to the hype.  Since 2017, he's been nothing short of spectacular. Clowney actually ranks 2nd in the NFL in TFLs with 37 over the last 2 seasons behind Aaron Donald (44).

 

I know he hasn't lead the league in sacks, but the fact that he's been as productive in every other phase of the defensive game, combined with the fact that he's still put up solid sack production, is pretty amazing IMO.

Hear, hear!!

[Coach Tuesday]

10 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I can't believe the number of people that are saying that Clowney hasn't lived up to the hype.  Since 2017, he's been nothing short of spectacular. Clowney actually ranks 2nd in the NFL in TFLs with 37 over the last 2 seasons behind Aaron Donald (44).

 

I know he hasn't lead the league in sacks, but the fact that he's been as productive in every other phase of the defensive game, combined with the fact that he's still put up solid sack production, is pretty amazing IMO.

 

But if anything that should tell you how big the hype was... everyone knew he'd be great, but there was talk of him being generational and he hasn't been THAT, yet.  

[GunnerBill]

15 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

I can't believe the number of people that are saying that Clowney hasn't lived up to the hype.  Since 2017, he's been nothing short of spectacular. Clowney actually ranks 2nd in the NFL in TFLs with 37 over the last 2 seasons behind Aaron Donald (44).

 

I know he hasn't lead the league in sacks, but the fact that he's been as productive in every other phase of the defensive game, combined with the fact that he's still put up solid sack production, is pretty amazing IMO.

 

And when he is asked to rush his pressures, hits and sacks are up there. His issue is he is such a good player who can shut down the run and can actually get out and cover as well as a lot of linebackers on a team with other good rushers that they do not just use him hand in the dirt and get up field every play. 

[NewEra]

Neither.  We’re doing it the right way.  If the right player comes available, go for it. Jones and Clowney aren’t the right guy imo

[auburnbillsbacker]

7 hours ago, /dev/null said:

Neither

 

Mortgaging draft capital and eating up a chunk of cap space on a single player will not solve all of this teams problems

I think it could, depending on the price.  A dominant pass rusher could take this defense from good to elite.  With the additions made on the offensive side of the ball it might result in a playoff appearance.  

[DuckyBoys]

I'd just stay the course and continue to build through the draft and integrate smaller pieces into the mix  Clowney's production as a edge rusher is not overwhelming and Julio is getting up there where a big drop off could come at any given year

[BillsFan17]

43 minutes ago, DuckyBoys said:

I'd just stay the course and continue to build through the draft and integrate smaller pieces into the mix  Clowney's production as a edge rusher is not overwhelming and Julio is getting up there where a big drop off could come at any given year

They signed upwards of 17 players, they also tried to trade for AB.

 

Not sure the course is as narrow and definitive as just building via the draft.

 

Moreover, not every pick will workout, if you have a chance to add a legit NFL player, you roll those dice with a QB on a rookie contract.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

...no...and...no.....Julio is staying put period.......

Edited May 1, 2019 by OldTimeAFLGuy

[MDH]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

But at some point they gotta' get more serious about addressing the offense.     Aside from the potential of Robert Foster there isn't a single guy on the offense that is someone you can count on to beat the man in front of him every week.    It's mostly stalemates at best.    Which is advantage defense.

 

Yep, and that would be good enough with a QB who can go through his reads quickly and deliver an accurate ball. 3-4 legit #2 WRs is fine in that situation because the QB will consistently find the one guy who got open on that play. While I like Allen's long term potential this isn't his strength yet and might never be. 

[DuckyBoys]

20 minutes ago, BillsFan17 said:

They signed upwards of 17 players, they also tried to trade for AB.

 

Not sure the course is as narrow and definitive as just building via the draft.

 

Moreover, not every pick will workout, if you have a chance to add a legit NFL player, you roll those dice with a QB on a rookie contract.

AB I am happy they did not land   The free agency signings were moderate contract and most if not all without long term implications  I have no problem with Julio but wonder if the Bills are "close" enough to expend serious draft capital and tie up big time salary cap money. He's going to want to long term money and just not sure Julio in 3 or 4 years is worth the investment and it might be that long before the Bills are in the hunt.  If we were a 11-5 team and a contender I could see it  Maybe next year one of these blockbuster deals makes sense