inkman Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 8 hours ago, NoSaint said: Im not saying 2 inches accounts for all but likely is a factor... My wife agreesĀ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Epstein's Mother Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, inkman said: My wife agreesĀ Ā Oh God.Ā You just teed this up for one of the more sophomoric members of the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boca BIlls Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Slow eyes 8 hours ago, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. Ā On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Ā Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Ā Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Ā Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Ā Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Ā Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Ā Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Ā Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Ā Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16Ā TD's in 3 seasons). Ā Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Ā Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record atĀ 8-5Ā in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Ā Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Ā Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much.Ā On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? Watch the tape... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 6 hours ago, GreggTX said: All I can say is that the 2 best QB's in the 2018 draft were already gone when we selected Allen. It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or just another running QB that can't hit the side of a barn. Many Bills fans simply will not allow themselves to see him as he really is -- Tyrod Taylor v2.0. At least TT made it to the probowl once. I'm getting tired of these QB's we bring in with the same MO (Allen, Taylor, EJ Manuel). I want a QB that throws the ball accurately with good placement on a consistent basis and one that makes quick, correct decisions. If he's a good scrambler, OK, but I really don't much care about that. How many rushing yards does Brady get in a season? 50 maybe? And he's got 6 SB rings. Ā I can't even. Ā It's true that Allen needs to take a step in several regards if he's going to become the franchise QB we all hope for. Ā But "Tyrod Taylor v2.0"?Ā Then comparison to EJ Manuel?Ā C'mon man.Ā If you're trolling, troll better. Ā If you actually watch football and in particular Bills games, and you're not trolling, and you think that, watch differently.Ā Subscribe to NFL Game Pass.Ā Read Cover1.Ā Do something to educate your fine self. Ā Ā 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCal Deek Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 This is an honest question. Does Jackson have a shot at converting to Tight End? He certainly has the height.Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Wagon Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 I canāt help but think some of Jacksonās biggest supporters on this board would have a dramatically different opinion of him if he went to Eastern Michigan instead of Buffalo.Ā 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thandGoal Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Simple-- if you watched any of UBs games-- Tyree is not that good.Ā Also if Tyree wasnt playing for a college in Buffalo-- no one would care on this board of why he went undrafted. Same goes with the love for Anthony Jackson-- 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 7 minutes ago, Chuck Wagon said: I canāt help but think some of Jacksonās biggest supporters on this board would have a dramatically different opinion of him if he went to Eastern Michigan instead of Buffalo.Ā Ā And I can't help but wonder ifĀ some of Jackson's biggest supporters have ever watched NFLĀ football... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Oh good lord ?.Ā The minute I saw that Jackson was signed I could already see the writing on the wall.Ā There will be a contingency of bills fans that will want him to be the starter.Ā It's going to be 4 months of this crap until he is either cut or moves to the practice squad.Ā Buckle up.Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgotBILLStopay Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 9 hours ago, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. Ā On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Ā Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Ā Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Ā Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Ā Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Ā Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Ā Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Ā Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Ā Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16Ā TD's in 3 seasons). Ā Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Ā Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record atĀ 8-5Ā in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Ā Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Ā Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much.Ā On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? Good post. I felt after the Positive experience with JA,Ā TyreeĀ will get drafted in Round 3. Ā That said Allenās final year statsĀ are skewed by drops. Not sure about Tyreeās. Also Allen has a pocket presence that cannot be taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billspro Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 9 hours ago, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. Ā On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Ā Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Ā Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Ā Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Ā Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Ā Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Ā Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Ā Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Ā Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16Ā TD's in 3 seasons). Ā Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Ā Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record atĀ 8-5Ā in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Ā Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Ā Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much.Ā On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? Ā Some people may not like this but I think there is a huge difference in accuracy and decision making. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Red King Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 7 hours ago, GreggTX said: All I can say is that the 2 best QB's in the 2018 draft were already gone when we selected Allen. It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or just another running QB that can't hit the side of a barn. Many Bills fans simply will not allow themselves to see him as he really is -- Tyrod Taylor v2.0. At least TT made it to the probowl once. I'm getting tired of these QB's we bring in with the same MO (Allen, Taylor, EJ Manuel). I want a QB that throws the ball accurately with good placement on a consistent basis and one that makes quick, correct decisions. If he's a good scrambler, OK, but I really don't much care about that. How many rushing yards does Brady get in a season? 50 maybe? And he's got 6 SB rings. Ā "It remains to be seen if he's the real deal or another..." ...immediately follows by declaring him a bust.Ā ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Josh Allen week 17.......Ā 17/26 for 224yds and 3 Tds.Ā Also ran 9 times for 95 yds and 2 Tds.Ā Ā But yeah, Tyree is better ?.Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bills Blog Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Jackson just looks out of control on tape. He looks terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orlando Tim Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 9 hours ago, SoTier said: Ā This might be it.Ā His release and/or throwing motion might also be an issue.Ā Ā I think even before the draft, he wasn't ever considered discussed among the prospects likely to go before the sixth or seventh round.Ā Ā I think I saw one article somewhere calling him a "sleeper pick" or something. I always find it odd that a throwing motion can be such a problem. You would figure to earn a 100 mil that a dude could learn to improve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, 4thandGoal said: Simple-- if you watched any of UBs games-- Tyree is not that good.Ā Also if Tyree wasnt playing for a college in Buffalo-- no one would care on this board of why he went undrafted. Same goes with the love for Anthony Jackson-- Ā And yet, Jackson and Johnson were both talked about and mocked by draftniks all year. Why is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihilarian Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) I'm just happy he didn't land in New England.Ā Ā The answer is, IMHO, that while Josh Allen required some development time he was a gamer that won games without much of a supporting cast at Wyoming his final season. Allen basically carried his team on his shoulders. Ā While the physical comparison is notableĀ between the two. Allen tested off the charts not only physically but also mentally as the kid tested very high on the wonderlic at 37.Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā A score of 20 gives an IQ of around 100. Tom Brady scored a 33.Ā Ā Josh Rosen 29 Sam Darnold 28 Baker Mayfield 25 Lamar Jackson 13 Ā Eli Manning 39 Aaron Rodgers 35 Carson Wentz 40 Big Ben 25 Paxton Lynch 18 Dan Marino 16 RG3 24 Ryan Fitzpatrick 48 Frank Gore 6 Ā Weaknesses Threw 12 touchdowns to nine interceptions over final nine games Had very little control over accuracy during stretches Career completion percentage of 55.8 percent Footwork in the pocket feels heavy Treats slants and short throws like a game of burn-out Needs better feel for proper deep ball trajectory Delayed decision-maker near end zone Inconsistent in developing post-snap plan Too willing to throw it up for grabs under heavy pressure Carries football low and away from frame when scrambling Sources Tell Us "He's a project, but he can move a little bit and his arm is really, really good. He's a draft and develop guy. Personally, I probably wouldn't take him until between (Rounds) 5-7." -- Executive with AFC team Ā https://www.nfl.com/prospects/tyree-jackson?id=32194a41-4361-1082-9c52-07385a4368c9 Edited April 28, 2019 by Nihilarian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 8 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said: Stats are for Mike Schopp. Ā Watch the games and you will see. Ā Ā In other words, youāre not able to answer the OPās question in an intelligent way...Ā 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HomeTeam Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 This is actually a great question.Ā Ā Maybe it's because one is white and one is black? xD Ā I kid... I have no idea but I imagine it has to do with projection. Scouts were saying with Allen that he has some of the best attributes they've ever seen in all the time they've spent scouting. That speaks rather highly if you ask me.Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Over 29 years of fanhood Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Great case study on how the collegiate level differs fromĀ the pros and explanation why scouts travel and watch film. Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) I have watched every snap of Jacksons career... Ā he may beĀ physically similar to Allen but their actual quarterbacking skills are not on par... Ā for starters... Allen has a super crisp and quick release.., Ā Jackson has a very noticeable elongation in his windup... Ā in the NFL that is the difference betweeen a TD and a pick 6... Ā Josh Allen also had experience in a very pro style offense... routinely played in a system that asked him to read the whole field from 3-5-7 step dropsĀ Ā TJ played in a gimmicky spread offense... he did read the whole field... but NEVER worked under center... maybe 1%... Ā Jackson also was on a loaded UB offense and he struggled at times..Ā Ā Josh may have struggled at times but he was on a dog**** Wyoming offense... he CARRIED THE TEAM Ā Jackson didnāt carry UB Ā Ā Ā Ā Edited April 28, 2019 by Buffalo716 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 hours ago, 4thandGoal said: Simple-- if you watched any of UBs games-- Tyree is not that good.Ā Also if Tyree wasnt playing for a college in Buffalo-- no one would care on this board of why he went undrafted. Same goes with the love for Anthony Jackson-- Another non-answer... 10 hours ago, Peace Frog said: I think the question that should be asked is why was Tyree passed over by all of the teams in this draft? Thatās pretty much what the OP is asking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 11 hours ago, BigDingus said: Josh Allen was always said to be a "project" QB, with a raw skillset but the physical attributes and athleticism that made him worth drafting on potential alone. Great size & arm strength were constantly noted, as were accuracy issues. Ā On the other hand, Tyree Jackson is said to be the liked for the same reasons. Great size and athleticism, fantastic arm strength, but also inaccurate. They both also faced similar criticisms for facing inferior competition throughout their collegiate careers. Josh Allen is 6'5 and 240 lbs. Tyree Jackson is 6'7 and 249 lbs. Ā Josh Allen's hand size is 10 & 1/8 inches. Tyree Jackson's hand size is 10 & 1/4 inches. Josh Allen's arms measured at 33 & 1/4 inches. Tyree Jackson's arms measured at 34 & 1/4 inches. Ā Josh Allen ran a 4.75 second 40 yard dash. Tyree Jackson ran a 4.59 second 40 yard dash. Ā Josh Allen had a 33.5 inch vertical jump. Tyree Jackson had a 34.5 inch vertical jump. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā So in terms of physical attributes, size & athleticism, they both are extremely similar in every way. Now to break down stats a bit: Josh Allen's Completion Percentage his final season - 56.3% Tyree Jackson's Completion Percentage his final season - 55.3% Ā Josh Allen's YPG his final season - 164.7 yards Tyree Jackson's YPG his final season - 223.6 yards Ā Josh Allen had 16 TD's, averaging 1.45 TD's per game his final season. (28 TD's in 14 games the the prior season) Tyree Jackson had 28 TD's, averaging 2.0 TD's per game his final season. (12 TD's in 8 games the prior season) Ā Josh Allen threw 6 INT's, averaging 0.54 INT's per game his final season (15 INT's, averaging 1.07 per game the prior season) Tyree Jackson threw 12 INT's, averaging 0.85 INT's per game his final season (3 INT's, averaging 0.38 per game the prior season) Ā Josh Allen rushed for 204 yards on 92 carries, averaging 2.2 YPA his final season. Tyree Jackson rushed for 161 yards on 55 carries, averaging 2.9 YPA his final season. Ā Josh Allen rushed for 5 TDs his final season (12 TD's in 2 seasons). Tyree Jackson rushed for 7 TD's his final season (16Ā TD's in 3 seasons). Ā Josh Allen was 8-3 as a starter his final season, 8-6 the prior year. Tyree Jackson was 10-4 as a starter his final season, 5-3 the prior year. Ā Josh Allen's Passer Rating his final season was 127.8, and 144.9 the prior year. Tyree Jackson's Passer Rating his final season was 136.7, and 148.8 the prior year. Ā *************************************************************************************************** Ā Again, awfully similar in most every category. One of the only other factors to consider is whether you value playing in the MW Conference or the MAC more. Wyoming finished with a 4th overall W/L record atĀ 8-5Ā in the MWC in 2017, with Allen not leading in a single statistical category in the conference. Ā Buffalo finished with a 1st overall W/L record at 10-4 in the MAC in 2018, with Jackson leading in several major statistical categories in the conference (Ex: Most Passing TD's and Most Passing Yards). He also finished the season as the MAC's Offensive Player of the Year. Ā Anyway... TL;DR - What differences between them were so huge that it lead to a gap in draft position as massive as A) being a top 10 pick in the 1st round and B) being passed over by everyone & signing as an Undrafted Rookie FA? I'm not saying Tyree is as good as Allen, and I'm not saying he's even worthy of being an NFL starter. I just can't see how one is worth the risk based on physical attributes & flashes of great talent, while the other has equally impressive physical attributes and also shows flashes of great talent. I mean, at least he should be worth a pick in the 4th round based on where Allen was drafted right? At worst, a 5th or 6th rounder... Can you imagine if Josh Allen fell to the 5th or 6th, or simply went undrafted? "Intangibles" can be thrown around to fill in for whatever explanation that doesn't exist for such a weird difference in draft stock, but that should only cover so much.Ā On the other hand, I don't know if Jackson had any legal troubles or character doubts that I haven't heard about, but from what I know there wasn't anything noteworthy. So how did one guy profit so much his physical skillset while the other was written off for a very similar one? This is a really good question and an excellent post.Ā IMO, no one has given a very convincing answer. Ā I have not seen Jackson play, so I canāt offer an opinion, but youāve made a strong case that the two are pretty similar, at least on paper. Certainly nothing jumps out that should make one aĀ potential first overall pick and another an UDFA. Ā Unfortunately, your legitimate question brought out some of the worst aspects of TSW: Ā over half the responses are either smart-ass non-answers or completely non-responsive. Ā And some of the responses, while honest, are unconvincing. Ā Joshās āfighting spiritā? Ā Really? Ā The difference between the MAC and the WAC? Ā Please... Ā Iām sure there is a good answer to this question, but we havenāt seen it in this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 9 hours ago, BullBuchanan said: Yea, numbers are for nerds. Facts just get in the way of the tried and trueĀ ol' eyeball test. Ā Wasn't there a QB who threw 5 INTs in a single game who you continually propped up as a starter? So I guess your eyeball test is okay. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, The Bills Blog said: Jackson just looks out of control on tape. He looks terrible. Ā This is it. Allen showed spotty accuracy and sometimesĀ left the design of the play early. Jackson had those problemsĀ all the time. He is notĀ inconsistent, he is consistently inaccurate and bad. The only reason he got any attention in Buffalo is that he played college here. I'll say as someone that did not want Allen last year I thought he would have been a good pick in the 2nd, and this year I thought Tyree would be a good pick in the 7th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcdamit Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 with qb being the most important position it is strange that nobody thought enough of Jackson to draft him.Ā Make him your third string for a couple of years and see if you can put him together.Ā Ā Lots to work with here.Ā My guess is he spends the year on the Bills practice squad and battles it out for a roster spot next year.Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Mark92 said: Josh Allen week 17.......Ā 17/26 for 224yds and 3 Tds.Ā Also ran 9 times for 95 yds and 2 Tds.Ā Ā But yeah, Tyree is better ?.Ā Ā Ā Where did the OP say (or even imply) that? I think he specifically said he wasnāt claimingĀ Tyree was better than or as good as Allen. Even if he did, cherry picking Allenās best game from last season isnāt contrary evidence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mannc Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 10 minutes ago, HappyDays said: Ā This is it. Allen showed spotty accuracy and sometimesĀ left the design of the play early. Jackson had those problemsĀ all the time. He is notĀ inconsistent, he is consistently inaccurate and bad. The only reason he got any attention in Buffalo is that he played college here. I'll say as someone that did not want Allen last year I thought he would have been a good pick in the 2nd, and this year I thought Tyree would be a good pick in the 7th. Then why donāt these differences show up in the stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 8 minutes ago, mannc said: Then why donāt these differences show up in the stats? Ā Because that isn't what scouting is. I really don't get it. I'm a big stats nerd. I love analyzing data. But I would never think a college player's stat sheet has anything to do with their NFL prospects. At the NFL level you can glean a lot from stats, but in college some schools are practically playing different sports. Tyree was playing in a college offense. He didn't have to hit tight windows. He was chucking the ball 30 yards downfield to wide open receivers and he did it moderately well. He hasn't shown any NFL traits at all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 46 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Ā Where did the OP say (or even imply) that? I think he specifically said he wasnāt claimingĀ Tyree was better than or as good as Allen. Even if he did, cherry picking Allenās best game from last season isnāt contrary evidence. Then this whole thread is pointless.Ā OP is directly comparing Allen to Jackson.Ā Yes I " Cherry Picked" Allen's best game because it's evidence of the difference between the two Ā Ā Ā Edited April 28, 2019 by Mark92 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 College stats do not translate to the pro game. How many Heisman trophy winners have to bust before this is understood. Mechanics, footwork, white board work, delivery, facing adversity, consistency etc. are all more important than the stats. As Happy said before, he didn't play in a pro style system, he looks like he is laboring to throw the ball further than 40 yards, he never took over a game or dominated the competition. And that is in a very weak conference. I think the first thing you look for in a small school guy is, is he the best player on the field in a good portion of his film? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPar_v2 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Just now, Mark92 said: Then this whole thread is pointless.Ā OP is directly comparing Allen to Jackson.Ā Yes I " Cherry Picked" Allen's best game because it's evidence of the difference between the two Ā Ā Ā Ā Itās one of the best threads thatās been started here in weeks, maybe months. Cherry picked doesnāt need to be in quotes thatās exactly what you did. And itās not a valid comparison because one guy has pro experience and one guy does not. Picking one game (also his best game) from last season just makes what you did worse.Ā The statistical comparisons the OP made in his original post are relevant, yours is not. If the thread is pointless why are you here?Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Honestly, Iām shocked Jackson wasnāt drafted. Ā There are a ton of guys who have no chance at sniffing a roster that I would have rather taken a chance with a developmental qb with his tools. Ā But posters are right that weirdly his height hurts him. Ā Big guys like Dan McGwire, Brock Osweiler, and Peyton Lynch didnāt help him. Ā But like Wilson and Brees, if Jackson succeeds, that could start a new trend. Ā Even if he doesnāt make it, I like the forward thinking by the Bills. Ā At least try and donāt settle. Ā We need a vet backup but Barkley and Anderson were able to be signed during the season for a reason. Ā They are very low end, replaceable backups. Ā You need one of them but 2 is probably overkill. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 Ā 14 minutes ago, JoPar_v2 said: Ā Itās one of the best threads thatās been started here in weeks, maybe months. Cherry picked doesnāt need to be in quotes thatās exactly what you did. And itās not a valid comparison because one guy has pro experience and one guy does not. Picking one game (also his best game) from last season just makes what you did worse.Ā The statistical comparisons the OP made in his original post are relevant, yours is not. If the thread is pointless why are you here?Ā I SAID I cherry Picked his best game to prove a point.Ā I knowingly did that because I do not believe Jackson can be that good in the NFL.Ā Pure talent is why Allen was a top 10 pick and Jackson ended up undrafted.Ā On paper many things look similar but watch them both play and you will see the difference.Ā Ā OP started this thread posing a question as to WHY they were so far apart when it came to draft grades.Ā I am giving my opinion.Ā It was great work on the part of the OP though.Ā Just because things look close on paper doesn't mean they are on the field.Ā Sorry that you don't find my posts relevant.Ā I'll make sure to run my opinions by you first from now on.Ā ? Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, Buffalo Timmy said: I always find it odd that a throwing motion can be such a problem. You would figure to earn a 100 mil that a dude could learn to improve it. They can, but NFL teams are risk averse and most of the best coaches work in the NFL, so they aren't available for private tutelage. I'm sure that Jordan Palmer is good at what he does, but is he the best? Ā 28 minutes ago, Mark92 said: Then this whole thread is pointless.Ā OP is directly comparing Allen to Jackson.Ā Yes I " Cherry Picked" Allen's best game because it's evidence of the difference between the two Ā Ā Ā This thread is only pointless for people without reading comprehension that took it as "Ermergerd, He's saying Jackson is as good as Allen!" That's not the point of the post at all.Ā The actual point, which is 2 QBs with the same athletic abilities and similar stats go to the NFL. One never wins in college in a weak conferenceĀ but gets drafted 7th overall and the other wins a ton in a weak conference but goes undrafted. If those things don't make up the difference, what does? It's not arm talent, speed, size, strength, or winning - which are all things people commonly consider when drafting QBs. Edited April 28, 2019 by BullBuchanan 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rampage Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: They can, but NFL teams are risk averse and most of the best coaches work in the NFL, so they aren't available for private tutelage. I'm sure that Jordan Palmer is good at what he does, but is he the best? Ā This thread is only pointless for people without reading comprehension that took it as "Ermergerd, He's saying Jackson is as good as Allen!" That's not the point of the post at all.Ā The actual point, which is 2 QBs with the same athletic abilities and similar stats go to the NFL. One never wins in college in a weak conferenceĀ but gets drafted 7th overall and the other wins a ton in a weak conference but goes undrafted. If those things don't make up the difference, what does? It's not arm talent, speed, size, strength, or winning - which are all things people commonly consider when drafting QBs. Youāre not a scout. Teams put on the tape and obviously saw Josh Allen had the arm strength, footwork and throwing motion to put it together at the next level. He also obviously nailed his interviews, board work and background checks. Ā If you draft based on the stat sheet youāre gonna end up like the Raiders. Or us before Beane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullBuchanan Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 1 hour ago, HappyDays said: Ā Wasn't there a QB who threw 5 INTs in a single game who you continually propped up as a starter? So I guess your eyeball test is okay. Was it Drew Brees or Russel Wilson, I don't remember. Just now, Rampage said: Youāre not a scout. Teams put on the tape and obviously saw Josh Allen had the arm strength, footwork and throwing motion to put it together at the next level. He also obviously nailed his interviews, board work and background checks. Ā If you draft based on the stat sheet youāre gonna end up like the Raiders. Or us before Beane. God, no one is saying that. Read slower, it'll do wonders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K-GunJimKelly12 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, BullBuchanan said: They can, but NFL teams are risk averse and most of the best coaches work in the NFL, so they aren't available for private tutelage. I'm sure that Jordan Palmer is good at what he does, but is he the best? Ā This thread is only pointless for people without reading comprehension that took it as "Ermergerd, He's saying Jackson is as good as Allen!" That's not the point of the post at all.Ā The actual point, which is 2 QBs with the same athletic abilities and similar stats go to the NFL. One never wins in college in a weak conferenceĀ but gets drafted 7th overall and the other wins a ton in a weak conference but goes undrafted. If those things don't make up the difference, what does? It's not arm talent, speed, size, strength, or winning - which are all things people commonly consider when drafting QBs. I watched both of these guys a lot in college.Ā Pretty much every game Jackson played.Ā The weapons Jackson had on offense were better than their competition and helped Jackson a lot.Ā In 2017 when Jackson was injured, one could argue that Drew Anderson ran the offense better than Jackson and they may be right. Ā Allen on the other hand carried that Wyoming team.Ā They were terrible before before he got there and when he was injured, the production from the QB position decreased significantly. Ā All you have to do is watch the tape and you will know why.Ā Ā Also saying they have the same athletic abilities is absurd.Ā They both might have strong arms and the ability to run, but that doesn't mean it translates directly into game action the same or their abilities are the same.Ā Jackson will never matchĀ Ā to Allen's arm strength or come close to Allen's ability to make plays on the run, with both his arm and legs. Ā Ā Edited April 28, 2019 by K-GunJimKelly12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: Was it Drew Brees or Russel Wilson, I don't remember. God, no one is saying that. Read slower, it'll do wonders. Tony Romo did too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark92 Posted April 28, 2019 Share Posted April 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said: They can, but NFL teams are risk averse and most of the best coaches work in the NFL, so they aren't available for private tutelage. I'm sure that Jordan Palmer is good at what he does, but is he the best? Ā This thread is only pointless for people without reading comprehension that took it as "Ermergerd, He's saying Jackson is as good as Allen!" That's not the point of the post at all.Ā The actual point, which is 2 QBs with the same athletic abilities and similar stats go to the NFL. One never wins in college in a weak conferenceĀ but gets drafted 7th overall and the other wins a ton in a weak conference but goes undrafted. If those things don't make up the difference, what does? It's not arm talent, speed, size, strength, or winning - which are all things people commonly consider when drafting QBs. OP is directly comparing the two players as are youĀ Yes is it's not the purpose of the thread but it is a comparison thread.Ā Ā Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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