Hockenson at #9 Change My Mind

[3rdand12]

3 hours ago, Magnum Force said:

My gut says the pick is Oliver if he is there at 9....if not Wilkens.  But I could also see a scenarios where we take Hockenson or Metcalf.  

you kinda have to take Oliver don't you : )

 9 is a tough spot this year imo.
Tackle DE LB Pass catcher , if you were picking for need which need would you pick ?

[Scorp83]

6 hours ago, Mike in Syracuse said:

I can't stop thinking that I want the Bills to draft Hock at the 9th spot.    I know that's high for a TE but what a fantastic offensive addition he'd be for our young QB.

 

 

 

 

I want DK... my gut is saying Hock also... I think they're trying to run that Pats offense... I have a thread about that. & Hock is the only TE compared to Gronk ... & I think they go that route come draft day. 

 

I would be disappointed, it's another weapon for Josh, a big weapon at that & it addresses a need too. 

[3rdand12]

Just now, GreggTX said:

Simple. We have no one to replace Kyle and there are several DT's who figure to be there at 9 that would probably be top 5 most years. Oliver is a difference maker IMO.

smacks of desperation my friend.
I think they could get by at DT this year without a star player.

 scheme. and better LB play in the middle could improve what we saw last year 

[Mike in Syracuse]

5 hours ago, buffalostu2 said:

Look at Tom Brady's effectiveness vs edge pressure and pressure up the middle.   We have the opportunity to draft an up the middle pressure D Lineman at 9.   That is a better strategy than trying to outscore the Pats.  Just ask the Giants.

The only problem with that theory is that the just won the Super Bowl facing the two best up the middle DT's in the league.

[Bangarang]

2 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

smacks of desperation my friend.
I think they could get by at DT this year without a star player.

 scheme. and better LB play in the middle could improve what we saw last year 

 

Have you seen our current crop of DTs? It’s no bueno

[Magnum Force]

9 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

you kinda have to take Oliver don't you : )

 9 is a tough spot this year imo.
Tackle DE LB Pass catcher , if you were picking for need which need would you pick ?

For need...probably Oliver or Wilkins....Wilkins is probably the safer pick but played for a national champion team while Oliver has more of the it factor and higher ceiling....So Oliver....but part of me would love to have that go to TE for Allen in Hockenson...great red zone target and safety valve.  I think with all the moves that have been made in FA with the OL, it would be hard to envision them taking either Taylor or Williams at 9.  

Edited March 15, 2019 by Magnum Force

[3rdand12]

5 minutes ago, Magnum Force said:

For need...probably Oliver or Wilkins....Wilkins is probably the safer pick but played for a national champion team while Oliver has more of the it factor and higher ceiling....So Oliver....but part of me would love to have that go to TE for Allen in Hockenson...great red zone target and safety valve.  I think with all the moves that have been made in FA with the OL, it would be hard to envision them taking either Taylor or Williams at 9.  

Thanks for a solid opinion . : 0

[JaCrispy]

No to Hockenson at 9...he has short arms ?

Edited March 16, 2019 by JaCrispy

[BillsFanForever19]

- He's not even close to one of the top 9 talents in this draft.

 

- He might not even be the best TE.

 

- He was pretty pedestrian at the Combine.

 

- He's just as raw of a prospect as DK Metcalf without the impressive measurables (Redshirt Sophomore).

 

- Tight End is like Running Back. A top 10 pick used there would have to be a freakish talent.

[3rdand12]

8 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

Have you seen our current crop of DTs? It’s no bueno

I have. and i disagree.
 yes they need to add players at DT beyond Star and Phillips. Lawson can move inside ,and the other Kid . But i do not feel it is nearly as high on my list to resolve at nine.

Get  another pick via trading out of nine ? and you can have anyone you want bud : )

 Have concerns about Murphy and i think DE pass rush across Hughes might be higher on the D line as need,
Just my arrogant opinion Bang : )

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

No to Hockenson at 9...he has short arms ?

Hand size is really what matters...

2 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

- He's not even close to one of the top 9 talents in this draft.

 

- He might not even be the best TE.

 

- He was pretty pedestrian at the Combine.

 

- He's just as raw of a prospect as DK Metcalf without the impressive measurables (Redshirt Sophomore).

 

- Tight End is like Running Back. A top 10 pick used there would have to be a freakish talent.

noted for draft day reflecting  : ) and badgering you perhaps ...
 

 

lol

 

 btw for reference i am not a DK fan plenty of pass catchers later on who might fit and have nice upside 

 

[Bangarang]

1 minute ago, 3rdand12 said:

I have. and i disagree.
 yes they need to add players at DT beyond Star and Phillips. Lawson can move inside ,and the other Kid . But i do not feel it is nearly as high on my list to resolve at nine.

Get  another pick via trading out of nine ? and you can have anyone you want bud : )

 Have concerns about Murphy and i think DE pass rush across Hughes might be higher on the D line as need,
Just my arrogant opinion Bang : )

Hand size is really what matters...

 

We get absolutely zero pass rush from our interior guys. Star is not the answer to that. Phillips is nothing more than an average rotation guy. Lawson is not a pass rusher on the edge so I wouldn’t expect him to suddenly become one playing inside. Phillips has a ways to go as well.

 

We need a talented DT capable of penetrating and getting to the QB.

[TheBeaneBandit]

I like him and all, but the dude definitely ain't Gronk. Like I said I like him, but his value is late 1st early 2nd. This #9 talk is silly, like silly with a limp wrist. Sorry.

[BillsFanForever19]

12 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

noted for draft day reflecting  : ) and badgering you perhaps ...

 

I'm not opposed to Buffalo drafting him. I'm just opposed to it happening at 9.

 

If they take him following a trade down to around the 20-30 range or if they traded up from the 2nd - okay.

Edited March 15, 2019 by BillsFanForever19

[3rdand12]

2 minutes ago, Bangarang said:

 

We get absolutely zero pass rush from our interior guys. Star is not the answer to that. Phillips is nothing more than an average rotation guy. Lawson is not a pass rusher on the edge so I wouldn’t expect him to suddenly become one playing inside. Phillips has a ways to go as well.

 

We need a talented DT capable of penetrating and getting to the QB.

scheme it.
 Bills did little blitzing inside last year ( pretty sure ). Edmunds struggled enough with taking care of his gap assignments. But he did okay when it was called.
I think the weakness was pressure from the edge. 

 On Lawsons side.
I miss Kyle too.
and yes. its nothing spectacular on paper.. Lets hope Bills grab a 3 tech or whatever they want to run in the draft at some point. But it might be enough.

is Adolphus Washington still on the team lol

6 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

I'm not opposed to Buffalo drafting him. I'm just opposed to it happening at 9.

 

If they take him following a trade down to around the 20-30 range or if they traded up from the 2nd - okay.

I hear ya. i was messing with you a bit.
  Being able to move off nine would be best, regardless.

Honestly i do not think Bills see this kid like some of us fans.
But he really does fit the Bills. as mentioned above. Process matters.

[Magnum Force]

Only two TEs have been drafted in the top 10 since 2000....Vernon Davis and Kellen Winslow Jr.....I think the most hyped TE since then was Jeremy Shockey at pick 14.  Gronk was taken in the 2nd round.  I wonder if this is more pre draft hype or Hockenson will actually go top 15.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by Magnum Force

[Bangarang]

36 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

scheme it.
 Bills did little blitzing inside last year ( pretty sure ). Edmunds struggled enough with taking care of his gap assignments. But he did okay when it was called.
I think the weakness was pressure from the edge. 

 On Lawsons side.
I miss Kyle too.
and yes. its nothing spectacular on paper.. Lets hope Bills grab a 3 tech or whatever they want to run in the draft at some point. But it might be enough.

is Adolphus Washington still on the team lol

 

What we currently have is not good even if you’re wearing rose colored glasses. Our d-line needs help and I don’t think any scheme can make up for what we have.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

Ideally, they draft him at 12-15 but if there is no willing trade partner, take him at 9.

Only a couple edge players falling would stop me from Hockenson at 9

[biggerdaddynj]

TE later, I’m a believer in Oliver:  check this out (sorry if it’s already been posted elsewhere, lots of threads out there)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.catscratchreader.com/platform/amp/2019/2/8/18213548/ed-oliver-was-a-disruptive-defensive-tackle-in-college-and-he-should-be-treated-as-such-in-the-nfl

[NewEra]

I haven’t had a change of heart.  I want Ed Oliver if he’s there.  If he’s not there, I’d be ok with Wilkins, Taylor, Dilliard or Hockenson.  

[Magnum Force]

 2 things that KC and NE have in common is that both a great receiving TE and both have a great slot WR.   I guess having Brady and Mahomes helps too.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Magnum Force

[HomeTeam]

10 hours ago, 947 said:

 

I do like Hockenson, but chances are, we won't be drafting in the top-10 again anytime soon. If we pass on an OT prospect, we may not have the chance at a top one for a long time. There'll always be top TEs in the mid-late 1st.

This is a great point, one which I agree completely. We need more blue chippers at impact positions.

 

LT or D-line for me. 

[NoSaint]

9 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

I am a trade down guy.....but it is a good bet that Hock is gonna be more then just a "solid" player

 

He does everything you are looking for in a go to TE.....he also blocks

 

If there’s one thing a blue collar buffalo fan wants from his skill position players - it’s always blocking. 

 

Im not so much calling you out here but I think we have some fans that would prefer a 30 catch 300 yard in line blocking TE over a WR that commands double teams every play but doesn’t always deliver punishing blocks in the run game. 

 

Whether talking about the greatest pass catchers or runners it always gets a chuckle how quick the debate turns to who the best blocker is.

[Dr.Mantis_Toboggan]

If they trade back with say Houston for Clowney, then sure grab a TE, but not if they stay at 9.  

TE is just too much of a risk that early. Granted plenty of prospects at all positions don’t live up to their potential, but TE’s rarely make an immediate impact.  Even Vernon Davis who was regarded as a can’t miss prospect, drafted 6th overall, took 3 full seasons before the light finally went on. He had more receiving yards in his 4th season than his first 3 combined.  Ebron was another more recently who never looked the part until getting to a new team and being paired up with an elite QB who throws 50 times a game.

[NoSaint]

4 minutes ago, HomeTeam said:

This is a great point, one which I agree completely. We need more blue chippers at impact positions.

 

LT or D-line for me. 

 

If there’s any way to get a star at an impactful position you have to go for it top 10. Getting a solid guy at a second tier position is definitely not ideal even if he plays well. 

 

The positive is we should have a shot at a great talent at one of those spots. 

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I'm not sure if it means much but to me I think it does, the Bills have only met with 1 TE and it was at the combine, Isaac Nauta so either they are super confident not to interview any of the tight end prospects or they have the guys they like and will roll with them. What's interesting as I look at the pre draft visit tracker, they haven't met with Josh Allen, D.K. Metcalf, either of the TE's, DT Christian Wilkins, Deebo Samuel, DE Nick Bosa, DT Jeffrey Simmons but they have met with DT Ed Oliver, WR Marquise Brown,  both of the big OT Jawaan Taylor and Jonah Williams and DE Rasaan Gary. 

[Jay_Fixit]

Because he’s a Tight End.

 

Game over.

[Buffalo86]

Maybe Gronk, Kelce, or Ertz would be worth the #9 pick (and none of them were drafted in the 1st, btw).  Hockenson is none of those guys.

[Big Blitz]

I don't want to change your mind on this one.  

 

Then I'm going all trenches and LBs--and a WR or 2.  

Edited March 16, 2019 by Big Blitz

[Buffalo03]

Did we even interview him at the combine? I know there were 2 or 3 TEs that we met with and neither him or Fant were one of them. They could bring one or both in for pre draft visits but if they don't I think it's a good indication that we will going TE later in the draft

[BillsFan1988]

14 hours ago, billspro said:

 

I think Hockenson has process written all over him. 

 

Im fine with Hockenson and Tillery or Oliver and Smith Jr in the first two rounds.

How bout Hock & Simmons.  I think this might be one of my favorite scenarios. 

[The Firebaugh Kid]

16 hours ago, Bangarang said:

 

We get absolutely zero pass rush from our interior guys. Star is not the answer to that. Phillips is nothing more than an average rotation guy. Lawson is not a pass rusher on the edge so I wouldn’t expect him to suddenly become one playing inside. Phillips has a ways to go as well.

 

We need a talented DT capable of penetrating and getting to the QB.

AMEN to this. Its a key component we are missing. Oliver is my guy.

[BullBuchanan]

We need to draft DK Metcalf and we need him to be the next Megatron if we want to get where we want to go.

[JM57]

59 minutes ago, BullBuchanan said:

We need to draft DK Metcalf and we need him to be the next Megatron if we want to get where we want to go.

And while we're at it we need to turn water into wine. That's how easy it will be for Metcalf to be the next Calvin Johnson. 

 

He's more likely to be the next Lonnie Johnson

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

....just an unsubstantiated hunch, but TE at #9 is doubtful.......think Ebron was the last one at #9 and didn't even show up until this year......still think McBeane trades down into the mid teens and hopes to grab an extra 2nd........

[3rdand12]

17 minutes ago, JM57 said:

And while we're at it we need to turn water into wine. That's how easy it will be for Metcalf to be the next Calvin Johnson. 

 

He's more likely to be the next Lonnie Johnson

lol

12 minutes ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

....just an unsubstantiated hunch, but TE at #9 is doubtful.......think Ebron was the last one at #9 and didn't even show up until this year......still think McBeane trades down into the mid teens and hopes to grab an extra 2nd........

who really is in the market for a TE like him this year? Patriots ?

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

10 minutes ago, 3rdand12 said:

lol

who really is in the market for a TE like him this year? Patriots ?

....well with Gronk's "I'm in...no I'm out (retirement)" yapping, sounding more like Waffling Willie, I could see BB pulling the trigger at #32 for a TE replacement, IF available without trading up to chase him.....senior moment speculation....

[HOUSE]

I draft DK at #9 then come down from the 2nd to nab Hokenson

[billsfan1959]

IMO, BPA on O-line or D-line at 9, if the Bills stay at that pick. Solid line play on both sides of the ball make the rest of the team better.

[3rdand12]

9 minutes ago, HOUSE said:

I draft DK at #9 then come down from the 2nd to nab Hokenson

Oliver at 9

 and then yes

[WideNine]

I see a lot of posts from our more objective TBD vets that Hock at 9 is not where he should be.

 

I agree, and feel like he should be in that 15-26 range of the 1st.

 

That being said his stock keeps rising and many "experts" or just folks that rank these guys for a living have him off the board before 15. Several and old Mel have him going to Detroit at 8.

 

We all know that draft value is not always BPA, but also demand. If enough teams like a player and doubt he will fall, his chances of being drafted sooner rises.

 

I like Hock, but don't think he will be in the cards for our Bills.

 

The consolation is the draft is deep with TEs, and we could still nab a good one (Oliver, or Warring),  just please no 6'2" Irv Smith. Concede the guy was productive in college and should find some success as a flex receiving option at the next level, but I just prefer bigger TEs less likely to get steamrolled if asked to block an NFL calibre DE.

 

 

 

Edited March 17, 2019 by WideNine