Bills have interest in Seattle DE Frank Clark

[teef]

19 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

The Bills won that game for two reasons.  1.) Jordy Nelson dropped a guaranteed touchdown pass early on that would have given them a lead that would have lasted the rest of the game 2.) A late injury forced JC Tretter to step in and try to block Mario, a task at which he failed spectacularly.

if i remember correctly, a bill screwed up pretty bad.  i think mckelvin dropped a guaranteed int or something along those lines.  both teams made mistakes, the bills won.

[thebandit27]

26 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

The Bills won that game for two reasons.  1.) Jordy Nelson dropped a guaranteed touchdown pass early on that would have given them a lead that would have lasted the rest of the game 2.) A late injury forced JC Tretter to step in and try to block Mario, a task at which he failed spectacularly.

 

Take 1 and throw it in the trash...because Stephon Gilmore dropped a guaranteed pick-6 earlier in the game too.  Selective memory?

 

Also, we're going to hang the game on JC Tretter because he gave up a sack at his own goal-line on 3rd down when already down 6 with 2 minutes to go?  That's, well, stupid.

 

The Bills won that game because they forced Rodgers into the worst game of his career.  He was 19/42 for 200 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

[teef]

2 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

 

Take 1 and throw it in the trash...because Stephon Gilmore dropped a guaranteed pick-6 earlier in the game too.  Selective memory?

 

Also, we're going to hang the game on JC Tretter because he gave up a sack at his own goal-line on 3rd down when already down 6 with 2 minutes to go?  That's, well, stupid.

 

The Bills won that game because they forced Rodgers into the worst game of his career.  He was 19/42 for 200 yards, 0 TDs and 2 INTs.

that's what it was.  i remember it was a major mistake on the bills part, yet it's always left out when describing that game.

[Alphadawg7]

58 minutes ago, Iamkrgr said:

So Frank Clark or Jadaveon Clowney assuming the acquisition cost and contract is similar?

 

Give me either tbh. 

 

Clark is a lot better than Clowney.  People still over rate Clowney off his one tackle in college.  

 

Clark is both worth the draft capital it will take to get him and contract we would pay him.  Clowney is a good player, but he is not worth the contract he wants let alone both the draft capital and contract we would have to use to get him.  In fact, Clowney has never had a single season worth the contract he wants where Clark has done it multiple times and is still only 25.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

27 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Its defintely the heel version we got here. 

Midnight Express can't be far behind

[MrEpsYtown]

Just now, 2018 Our Year For Sure said:

Midnight Express can't be far behind

 

Perhaps a Paul Heyman with a massive cordless phone? 

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, teef said:

that's what it was.  i remember it was a major mistake on the bills part, yet it's always left out when describing that game.

 

It was a potentially huge play that didn't get made, but Gilmore kind of gets a pass for it because it was one of the best games I've ever seen from a CB in a Bills' uniform.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Just now, MrEpsYtown said:

 

Perhaps a Paul Heyman with a massive cordless phone? 

As long as there's no tennis racket involved

[nucci]

58 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Are you ok with paying either of them $100+ million over 4 or 5 years?

I don't care about the money...I just want better players...we as fans seem to care too much about player contracts

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, nucci said:

I don't care about the money...I just want better players...we as fans seem to care too much about player contracts

 

Hey, it’s not MY money! But the problem comes when you give away too much so you can’t afford the better players we want. There is a relationship that has to be considered. 

[ctk232]

4 minutes ago, Augie said:

 

Hey, it’s not MY money! But the problem comes when you give away too much so you can’t afford the better players we want. There is a relationship that has to be considered. 

Kinda like how Seattle can't afford a team now that they paid Russell; the better players being Clark and Wagner. 

 

That being said, I wouldn't hate us making a reasonable move for Clark here, but with due consideration on player contracts the concerns on this board are justifiable when it comes to fielding a sustainable, competitive team. Especially one that still has to pay Allen should he continue to progress, in addition to Edmunds, White, Dawkins, etc.

 

Edit: it'll be interesting to see if Seattle doesn't deal Clark this year how they might look to keep him on that 5th year option while Russell's contract ends. While both sides compromised, pretty sure the 4 year mark was a max, non-negotiable on behalf of the GM to entertain the hope of retaining Clark and Wagner long term.

Edited April 16, 2019 by ctk232

[Aussie Joe]

Looking at Dee Ford’s deal, the guaranteed money is paid in the first two years..then they are paying him $16-$17M per year the last three years..Obviously he can be cut then if he is not performing to that level..

 

The Bills could do similar with Clark.,. Come 2021, $18M a year  is not going to be exorbitant for an elite DE..

 

 

[thebandit27]

8 minutes ago, Aussie Joe said:

Looking at Dee Ford’s deal, the guaranteed money is paid in the first two years..then they are paying him $16-$17M per year the last three years..Obviously he can be cut then if he is not performing to that level..

 

The Bills could do similar with Clark.,. Come 2021, $18M a year  is not going to be exorbitant for an elite DE..

 

 

 

It's not all that difficult to structure a contract to have enough guaranteed money while still being "escapable" after the first two years.

 

For example, if you're trying to give Clark/Clowney a 5-year, $100M deal with $60M fully guaranteed at signing, you could do the following:

 

5 years, $100M, $20M signing bonus. 

2019 - $15M fully gtd base salary, $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $19M; dead cap hit = $60M

2020 - $17M fully gtd base salary, $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $21M; dead cap hit = $41M

2021 - $12M base salary (8M fully gtd), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $16M; dead cap hit = $12M

2022 - $18M base salary (no gtd base), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $22M; dead cap hit = $8M

2023 - $18M base salary (no gtd base), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $22M; dead cap hit = $4M

[3rdand12]

On 4/15/2019 at 2:53 PM, NewDayBills said:

I believe in magic.

and I believe in you !

[John from Riverside]

It might be the year to do this with 10 draft picks.......Seattle doesnt have many......we do.......you shore up your pass rush......still draft a DT at 9

[Tsaikotic]

3 hours ago, Iamkrgr said:

So Frank Clark or Jadaveon Clowney assuming the acquisition cost and contract is similar?

 

Give me either tbh. 

 

2 hours ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Clark is a lot better than Clowney.  People still over rate Clowney off his one tackle in college.  

 

Clark is both worth the draft capital it will take to get him and contract we would pay him.  Clowney is a good player, but he is not worth the contract he wants let alone both the draft capital and contract we would have to use to get him.  In fact, Clowney has never had a single season worth the contract he wants where Clark has done it multiple times and is still only 25.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, thebandit27 said:

 

It's not all that difficult to structure a contract to have enough guaranteed money while still being "escapable" after the first two years.

 

For example, if you're trying to give Clark/Clowney a 5-year, $100M deal with $60M fully guaranteed at signing, you could do the following:

 

5 years, $100M, $20M signing bonus. 

2019 - $15M fully gtd base salary, $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $19M; dead cap hit = $60M

2020 - $17M fully gtd base salary, $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $21M; dead cap hit = $41M

2021 - $12M base salary (8M fully gtd), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $16M; dead cap hit = $12M

2022 - $18M base salary (no gtd base), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $22M; dead cap hit = $8M

2023 - $18M base salary (no gtd base), $4M signing bonus cap hit; total cap hit = $22M; dead cap hit = $4M

 

 

I think "guaranteeing base salary" could remain a point of confusion here for years.............people are so accustomed to signing bonuses being the only guarantee and those being amortized evenly over the contract........but times have changed to the point where most teams have the cap flexibility to take those hits right away.

[3rdand12]

5 hours ago, Rufridr101 said:

Kansas city is also interested in Clark. Swapping 1st rounders probably not what Seattle wants.  They want to accumulate more picks, in fact the general manager said 4 more picks.  3rd 4th 5th rounders probably enough compensation for a player that needs to be resigned.  

I like that even better. we cannot put them all to good use !

[Alphadawg7]

1 hour ago, Tsaikotic said:

 

 

 

Two things first:  I assume that both get traded for similar packages and sign similar sized deals.  

 

IMO Clark is the better player, at least their respective resumes so far.  Don't get me wrong, I would be excited to have Clowney on the opposite side of Hughes still, he is a good player.  My main issue with acquiring Clowney is that we are paying a premium for "potential" still, and that always makes me less comfortable.  He just has not played at the level Clark has, yet will both be costly to acquire.  To be fair, on the flip side, Clark has off field baggage and carries some risk there too.  

 

I would be all for it if Clowney was a FA signing and all it cost us was the contract.  But giving up quality draft capital and the contract is a lot for a guy who has averaged 7 sacks and never had a season with double digit sacks yet.  Like I said before, he still gets a lot of hype off his reputation, but quietly, Clark has been more consistently disruptive and productive.

 

Now, if we can obtain Clowney for less draft capital than Clark, then that gets way more interesting to me.  

 

My Clowney proposal:

 

Bills get Clowney and #23

Houston gets #9 and #131

 

Point wise:  #9 is worth and #131 is worth a combined 1391 points.  #23 is worth 760 points.

Thats a premium to Houston of 631 points.  Which means thats what Clowney is worth in this deal, which is the equivalent of a late first round pick (around pick #28).

 

That is a fair deal IMO and I would be all for that. 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by Alphadawg7

[MrEpsYtown]

44 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Two things first:  I assume that both get traded for similar packages and sign similar sized deals.  

 

IMO Clark is the better player, at least their respective resumes so far.  Don't get me wrong, I would be excited to have Clowney on the opposite side of Hughes still, he is a good player.  My main issue with acquiring Clowney is that we are paying a premium for "potential" still, and that always makes me less comfortable.  He just has not played at the level Clark has, yet will both be costly to acquire.  To be fair, on the flip side, Clark has off field baggage and carries some risk there too.  

 

I would be all for it if Clowney was a FA signing and all it cost us was the contract.  But giving up quality draft capital and the contract is a lot for a guy who has averaged 7 sacks and never had a season with double digit sacks yet.  Like I said before, he still gets a lot of hype off his reputation, but quietly, Clark has been quite a bit more consistently disruptive and productive.

 

Now, if we can obtain Clowney for less draft capital than Clark, then that gets way more interesting to me.  

 

My Clowney proposal:

 

Bills get Clowney and #21

Houston gets #9 and #131

 

Point wise:  #9 is worth and #131 is worth a combined 1391 points.  #23 is worth 760 points.

Thats a premium to Houston of 631 points.  Which means thats what Clowney is wroth in this deal, which is the equivalent of a late first round pick (around pick #28).

 

That is a fair deal IMO and I would be all for that. 

 

 

 

 

 

So with Clark there is the Morgan connection and I like Clark a lot. Heath Farwell would also know him well. 

 

With th the Texans, their general manager Brian Gaine was here with the Bills under Brandon Beane. So there is a close relationship there and negotiations can probably be made quite easily becuase there is an element of trust. We also have John Butler on staff, and while he was the DB coach with the Texans, he would obviously know Clowney very well, would know his character in the locker room and see how he worked each day in practice. I do think Clowney would have a huge breakout in a 4-3 with much less responsibility. 

 

I'd take either one in a heartbeat. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by MrEpsYtown
I meant to say there is the Morgan connection...not isn't

[The Jokeman]

6 hours ago, wppete said:

 

How about we just sit at #9 and draft either Ed Oliver, Montez Sweat or Rashan Gary for some pass rush. Save our valuable draft picks and the valuable money we will save ($20m) and spend it JUDICIOUSLY as Beane says. 

I'm an anti-Gary guy, adding Clark with the others could make things scary for opposing offenses.

[Alphadawg7]

8 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

 

So with Clark there isn't the Morgan connection and I like Clark a lot. Heath Farwell would also know him well. 

 

With th the Texans, their general manager Brian Gaine was here with the Bills under Brandon Beane. So there is a close relationship there and negotiations can probably be made quite easily becuase there is an element of trust. We also have John Butler on staff, and while he was the DB coach with the Texans, he would obviously know Clowney very well, would know his character in the locker room and see how he worked each day in practice. I do think Clowney would have a huge breakout in a 4-3 with much less responsibility. 

 

I'd take either one in a heartbeat. 

 

All fair points, and like I said Clowney is certainly young enough where his best football could still be ahead of him.  And if our staff feels our system gives him an opportunity to flourish, then great.  

 

Im always just a bit more uncomfortable betting big on potential when it comes to big trades like this because the cost is 2 fold...draft capital and contract size.  But I would certainly be excited if I learned Clowney was going to be a Bill even though I do think Clark has had a better start to their respective careers.  

 

And like I also said, if we can get Clowney for less draft capital, then that makes it more appealing to me.  And between the talk of Seattle wanting to get a lot more draft picks (making a swap of firsts less likely appealing to Seattle) and the points you made of the Bills-Houston connections, it does seem like Clowney is more plausible than Clark.  

[njbuff]

Oliver or Wilkins in the draft and Clark or Clowney would make the off season a complete home run.

[LSHMEAB]

5 hours ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Are you ok with paying either of them $100+ million over 4 or 5 years?

Technically, it's a multi-billion dollar enterprise paying them, but the answer is yes. You want impact players? You pay them. Pretty simple.

[billsredneck1]

1 hour ago, 3rdand12 said:

I like that even better. we cannot put them all to good use !

i would send lawson and a 4th this year combined with a conditional 3rd next year? (spitballin here). but then getting oliver? change of pants will be needed...

2 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Technically, it's a multi-billion dollar enterprise paying them, but the answer is yes. You want impact players? You pay them. Pretty simple.

didn't we give mario a 100 mil. contract?

[LSHMEAB]

2 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

 

didn't we give mario a 100 mil. contract?

Yep. And he compiled 43 sacks in 4 seasons. Not sure I get the point.

 

You got the QB on a rookie deal. THIS is when you strike.

[billsredneck1]

1 minute ago, LSHMEAB said:

Yep. And he compiled 43 sacks in 4 seasons. Not sure I get the point.

 

You got the QB on a rookie deal. THIS is when you strike.

i liked the mario signing and it was good til the coaching p'o'd him by dropping him into coverage then the divorce happened. my point though was,,,,

100 mil. and that was what? ...almost 10 years ago? i have no problem with paying clark that. clowney.....not so sure.

[LSHMEAB]

20 minutes ago, billsredneck1 said:

i liked the mario signing and it was good til the coaching p'o'd him by dropping him into coverage then the divorce happened. my point though was,,,,

100 mil. and that was what? ...almost 10 years ago? i have no problem with paying clark that. clowney.....not so sure.

Agreed and I think the distinction between Clark and Clowney has been duly noted by yourself and many posters. 

 

I would prefer Clark as well, but Clowney is really trending upwards and he's 26 years young. Compensation is obviously a major factor. It APPEARS as though Seattle is under the gun a bit more to deal Clark than Houston is to deal Clowney. That works in our favor if Clark is the preferred player. Houston has to pay Watt next year, but with his injury history, I'm not so sure they wouldn't just wait til next season to make that decision. I feel like Houston is in "blow me away with an offer" mode if they can afford his cap hit THIS year. Someone would have to feel me in on that detail.

 

 

Edited April 16, 2019 by LSHMEAB

[JaCrispy]

2 hours ago, Tsaikotic said:

 

 

Hopefully this is a smokescreen as I’m partial to Clark ?

[billsredneck1]

17 minutes ago, LSHMEAB said:

Agreed and I think the distinction between Clark and Clowney has been duly noted by yourself and many posters. 

 

I would prefer Clark as well, but Clowney is really trending upwards and he's 26 years young. Compensation is obviously a major factor. It APPEARS as though Seattle is under the gun a bit more to deal Clark than Houston is to deal Clowney. That works in our favor if Clark is the preferred player. Houston has to pay Watt next year, but with his injury history, I'm not so sure they wouldn't just wait til next season to make that decision. I feel like Houston is in "blow me away with an offer" mode.

 

 

 

i feel the same way. clowney was all that going into his draft, but it seems as though he's fetching watt's beers. i don't know his stats, but playing with watt you'd think he's be racking up sacks. anyhow, i'm not buying it. if we can't get clark, i'm all in on oliver and do whatever it takes to get bpa pass rusher some other way. the biggest need we have is pressure up the middle.  one thing we do know is that frazier's defensive probably will change as soon as his gray hair turns back to black. i'm hoping mc coach keeps the upper hand on the defense.

 

i trust these guys and can't wait to see how they wow me and i believe they will. i mean, who ever thought they'd do what they did in free agency? i trust the process and like i've said before, i do expect playoffs this year. however, i think next year is the year where they focus on getting a couple or a few  superstars to put us over the top.

 

it actually reminds me of how the team was built from 85-89. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by billsredneck1

[MrEpsYtown]

Sports news Buffalo are also the people who reported that there is a contract of 14 million per year on the table for Ansah. You guys want Ansah at 14 million over Clark or Clowney at 20 and draft pick compensation. I'd much rather Clark or Clowney. 

[Cornette's Commentary]

15 minutes ago, MrEpsYtown said:

Sports news Buffalo are also the people who reported that there is a contract of 14 million per year on the table for Ansah. You guys want Ansah at 14 million over Clark or Clowney at 20 and draft pick compensation. I'd much rather Clark or Clowney. 

Beane: Hi, John.  This is Brandon Beane.  I wanted to talk to you about a potential trade for Frank Clark.  I'm willing to offer you the 9th pick and our second 4th round pick for him and your first pick.

John Schneider: Wow.  That's very generous, Brandon.  Hold on one second.  <dials Frank Clark>  Frank, Brandon Beane from the Buffalo Bills has called me to ask about your services.

Frank:  I don't want to go to Buffalo.

John: Brandon, I'm sorry.  But, Frank won't agree to a trade to Buffalo.  What's that?  <to Frank> Frank, Brandon says he's willing to BEAT Demarcus Lawrence's deal by offering you 5 years, $120 million with $70 million guaranteed.

Frank: Man, I told you, I DON'T want to go to Buffalo.  I want to WIN!  I don't want to sit at home in January for the next 5 years!

Edited April 17, 2019 by Cornette's Commentary

[LSHMEAB]

10 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Beane: Hi, John.  This is Brandon Beane.  I wanted to talk to you about a potential trade for Frank Clark.  I'm willing to offer you the 9th pick and our second 4th round pick for him and your first pick.

John Schneider: Wow.  That's very generous, Brandon.  Hold on one second.  <dials Frank Clark>  Frank, Brandon Beane from the Buffalo Bills has called me to ask about your services.

Frank:  I don't want to go to Buffalo.

John: Brandon, I'm sorry.  But, Frank won't agree to a trade to Buffalo.  What's that?  <to Frank> Frank, Brandon says he's willing to BEAT Demarcus Lawrence's deal by offering you 5 years, $120 million with $70 million guaranteed.

Frank: Man, I told you, I DON'T want to go to Buffalo.  I want to WIN!  I don't want to sit at home in January for the next 5 years!

Don't quit your day job! (Assuming you have one)

[DaBillsFanSince1973]

3 minutes ago, Cornette's Commentary said:

Beane: Hi, John.  This is Brandon Beane.  I wanted to talk to you about a potential trade for Frank Clark.  I'm willing to offer you the 9th pick and our second 4th round pick for him and your first pick.

John Schneider: Wow.  That's very generous, Brandon.  Hold on one second.  <dials Frank Clark>  Frank, Brandon Beane from the Buffalo Bills has called me to ask about your services.

Frank:  I don't want to go to Buffalo.

John: Brandon, I'm sorry.  But, Frank won't agree to a trade to Buffalo.  What's that?  <to Frank> Frank, Brandon says he's willing to BEAT Demarcus Lawrence's deal by offering you 5 years, $120 million with $70 million guaranteed.

Frank: Man, I told you, I DON'T want to go to Buffalo.  I want to WIN!  I don't want to sit at home in January for the next 5 years!

                          post

[YoloinOhio]

 

[TheBeane]

1 minute ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Just saw that... What the hell does that mean?

[Mr Wild]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

 

[JaCrispy]

5 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

Curiouser and curiousee ?

Edited April 17, 2019 by JaCrispy

[Cornette's Commentary]

1 minute ago, TheBeane said:

Just saw that... What the hell does that mean?

It doesn't mean anything. People need to wake up and accept the fact that Frank Clark isn't coming here.

[HappyDays]

I didn't see this posted yet.